Author Topic: Making ciabatta loaves with Neapolitan pizza dough  (Read 884 times)

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Offline jamieg

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Making ciabatta loaves with Neapolitan pizza dough
« on: March 27, 2014, 12:47:09 PM »
Hola,

Ive reached a point where Im happy with my pizza (you can see some pics here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=25246.0

So, were finally going to open for lunch - and the plan is to make ciabatta loaves and toast them - panini style.

This week I will try to answer some of my own questions about ciabatta and report back here with photos - but if anybody would like to chime in now or point me to a useful post - it would be much appreciated.

Some info about my bulk dough:
Fermentation period: approx 50 hours
Fermentation temp: 14C to 18C (57.2 F to 64.4 F).
water - 66.67%   
IDY - 0.03%
brown sugar - 2.08%   
flour - 100%   
salt - 3.33%   

Some questions I would like to answer:
- Is the hydration between my dough and optimal ciabatta dough similar enough for top notch ciabatta?
- Is it necessary to spray ciabattas with cold water while they bake to add exterior crunch?
- Is is necessary to add a pot of water to the over to increase rise/exterior crunch?
- As with pizza - is it generally the case that the hotter the oven the better?
- Things to do/not to do when forming the ciabatta loaves?

Thanks again,

jamie


Offline ddee

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Re: Making ciabatta loaves with Neapolitan pizza dough
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2014, 01:02:58 PM »
I think your hydration is too low for good ciabatta, you also need a fair amount of oil in the bread. There is also a good video from the great british bake off showing Paul Hollywoods process. I haven't got it to hand though. Have a look at those below. Homemade ciabatta is incredible though :)

http://paulhollywood.com/recipes/ciabatta/

http://www.bakeryinfo.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/11875/Video_masterclass:_How_to_make_a_ciabatta.html

Offline norma427

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Re: Making ciabatta loaves with Neapolitan pizza dough
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2014, 01:24:01 PM »
Jamie,

I haven't tried too many ciabatta loaves, but thought this link was interesting.  http://www.farine-mc.com/2014/02/all-about-ciabatta-notes-from-class.html  Since the teacher for making the ciabatta was Didier Rosada I would think that article might contain some useful information.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline crkoller

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Re: Making ciabatta loaves with Neapolitan pizza dough
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2014, 02:28:38 PM »
I find using a biga works great for ciabatta. I would also bump the hydration up considerably, I've taken it as high as 80% for a good formed and well kneaded dough. I disagree about needed olive oil in recipe, I like a good crusty and more open crumb structure - the final result being less tender / more rustic. Add the oil if you are looking for something softer though maybe start with 5%?

What type of oven are you using. If baking in a wood oven I would highly recommend using a water to keep the crust yield crust formation so that the final result finishes with a perfect hard crust while the inside being fully baked. You can always bake in cast iron pots covered and then uncovered - Jim Lahey style.

Offline jamieg

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Offline jamieg

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Re: Making ciabatta loaves with Neapolitan pizza dough
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2014, 04:06:51 PM »
Jamie,

I haven't tried too many ciabatta loaves, but thought this link was interesting.  http://www.farine-mc.com/2014/02/all-about-ciabatta-notes-from-class.html  Since the teacher for making the ciabatta was Didier Rosada I would think that article might contain some useful information.

Norma

Incredible info... thank you!

Offline jamieg

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Re: Making ciabatta loaves with Neapolitan pizza dough
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2014, 04:16:07 PM »
I find using a biga works great for ciabatta. I would also bump the hydration up considerably, I've taken it as high as 80% for a good formed and well kneaded dough. I disagree about needed olive oil in recipe, I like a good crusty and more open crumb structure - the final result being less tender / more rustic. Add the oil if you are looking for something softer though maybe start with 5%?

What type of oven are you using. If baking in a wood oven I would highly recommend using a water to keep the crust yield crust formation so that the final result finishes with a perfect hard crust while the inside being fully baked. You can always bake in cast iron pots covered and then uncovered - Jim Lahey style.

I have 2 ovens.

1 is electric - which has space for 9 loaves max. It can only reach 220 c. The oven has shelves which would allow me to put cold water at the bottom for steam.

The other is a gas powered clay oven - it can reach floor temp 400 c and air temp 600 c. I can use a steam spray to develop the crust - but there are no shelves - so therefore no steam ( think - unless steam doesnt have to underneith the bread).

Why would 1 oven be better than than the other? Is there an ideal temp for ciabatta?

Thanks :-)

Offline jamieg

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Re: Making ciabatta loaves with Neapolitan pizza dough
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2014, 09:25:10 PM »
Well, here is my first report with some photos.

I used my existing pizza making recipe/methodology (seen at beginning of this thread) - except I increased the hydration to 80%.

The videos already in this thread have some excellent examples of how to handle the extremely wet dough.

My only regret, is that because the dough was so wet, I did not attempt to weigh the loaves and shape them to be equal in size. I simply cut the bulk dough into 10 separate loaves - so the result was inconsistently sized loaves.

I baked at 240c for about 25 minutes. I sprayed the dough with water before and towards the end of the bake. I opened the oven door for the last 5 minutes of the bake. I also added a baking tray of cold water to the bottom of the oven to add some vapour.

The only variable which I changed was the resting time (i.e. how long the shaped loaves rested just before being baked) which ranged from 0 to 25 to 50 minutes.

I noticed that the 0 minute resting time produced very little hole structure - and less coloring on the loaf exterior. I could not see any difference between the 25 and 50 minute resting time.

Overall, I am slightly disappointed with the hold structure - and I have no idea how I might improve it for the next bake. Also, the loaves were deliciously crunchy as they came out of the oven - but as time went on - became quite soft - perhaps the air humidity? Again - not sure how to fix that problem.

Here are some photos of the loaves which had a 25 minutes rest.

:-)
« Last Edit: April 06, 2014, 09:26:51 PM by jamieg »

Offline vtsteve

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Re: Making ciabatta loaves with Neapolitan pizza dough
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2014, 01:26:56 AM »
Ciabatta will soften as the internal moisture migrates to the crust, if they don't dry enough in the oven. I go for a deep, nutty brown crust -- they should feel surprisingly light when you take them from the oven. Your temperature is good, but I'd give them about ten minutes longer, and not bother with the water tray (the dough will release plenty of moisture early in the bake). Steam doesn't do any good after the crust sets (10-15 minutes into the bake); after that, you want to drive water out, so the crust will stay crisp.