Author Topic: Shotgun Sam's Pizza Palace is re-opening in Tulsa  (Read 1764 times)

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Offline nick57

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Re: Shotgun Sam's Pizza Palace is re-opening in Tulsa
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2014, 04:21:41 PM »
Unless they identify their problems and make some changes, I give them a year at most. Hate to see anyone fail, but if you do not have a viable business plan, your restaurant will close. Like elsewhere in the country, we see restaurants come and go. I had friend who started a cafe, he is a great chef. He spent 8 months remodeling the place, and he wound up with no money in reserve to operate. He lasted about 90 days. He got great reviews but kept running out of product every day. It was $300,000 lesson for him.


Offline nick57

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Re: Shotgun Sam's Pizza Palace is re-opening in Tulsa
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2014, 04:27:05 PM »
Bob you hit it the nail on the head. I think they use same day dough. As in the thread about giving criticism to an operator, I have the feeling he would not appreciate any. I won't cry too much, with all the amazing help from you guys, I can a create a better pie, and even several different styles to boot

Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: Shotgun Sam's Pizza Palace is re-opening in Tulsa
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2014, 05:13:21 PM »
Bob you hit it the nail on the head. I think they use same day dough. As in the thread about giving criticism to an operator, I have the feeling he would not appreciate any. I won't cry too much, with all the amazing help from you guys, I can a create a better pie, and even several different styles to boot

What he needs to do is switch to a 3 day dough. Make day one and ball it and get in the fridge. Then you pull the dough the following morning for use, and leave some left in the walkin. If you need it, also pull it, if not use it the third day. You would just need to know that on day 2 it will take a little bit longer of a room temp rise than on day 3.

This way you just overbuild your day by about 30% to start. So if you have a barrier, and if you don't need it, you start the following day with a small reserve.

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Shotgun Sam's Pizza Palace is re-opening in Tulsa
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2014, 05:23:00 PM »
What he needs to do is switch to a 3 day dough. Make day one and ball it and get in the fridge. Then you pull the dough the following morning for use, and leave some left in the walkin. If you need it, also pull it, if not use it the third day. You would just need to know that on day 2 it will take a little bit longer of a room temp rise than on day 3.

This way you just overbuild your day by about 30% to start. So if you have a barrier, and if you don't need it, you start the following day with a small reserve.
Yep, of course that is a good plan...but something tells me these folks are not as sharp as you Jeff.
They are `trapped behind pizza belts`.   :)
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline nick57

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Re: Shotgun Sam's Pizza Palace is re-opening in Tulsa
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2014, 05:42:21 PM »
Yep, of course that is a good plan...but something tells me these folks are not as sharp as you Jeff.
They are `trapped behind pizza belts`.   :)

Maybe I could wrassle the chef for the bill ;D  If  he really is a 3 time world champion, he should be well educated in dough management. I would think that would be one the the first things you learn. He could learn a lot from the great pizza makers here that schooled me on the food of the Gods.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 05:48:39 PM by nick57 »

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Shotgun Sam's Pizza Palace is re-opening in Tulsa
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2014, 05:50:00 PM »
Maybe I could wrassle the chef for the bill ;D
one thing is for sure nick...no way he gonna wrasstle you for one of dem belts....they go wherever he goes man!   8)
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline woodmakesitgood

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Re: Shotgun Sam's Pizza Palace is re-opening in Tulsa
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2014, 06:11:34 PM »
How long before I can proclaim myself a World Pizza Champion !?


Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Shotgun Sam's Pizza Palace is re-opening in Tulsa
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2014, 06:26:35 PM »
How long before I can proclaim myself a World Pizza Champion !?
By the powers invested in me, from being a moderator on Pizzamaking.com....I, Chicago Bob do christen thee, Mr. woodmakesitgood....a True World Pizza Champion.
An that includes the whole wide world......may yee go forth and make pizzas in peace.

btw, I`m going to start making and selling those stupid looking belts...pm me.   ;)
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 06:28:18 PM by Chicago Bob »
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline woodmakesitgood

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Re: Shotgun Sam's Pizza Palace is re-opening in Tulsa
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2014, 06:43:01 PM »
By the powers invested in me, from being a moderator on Pizzamaking.com....I, Chicago Bob do christen thee, Mr. woodmakesitgood....a True World Pizza Champion.
An that includes the whole wide world......may yee go forth and make pizzas in peace.

btw, I`m going to start making and selling those stupid looking belts...pm me.   ;)


Sweeeeet !

Thanks Chicago Bob,
When you get those title belts cranked out, I'll be your first customer.  ;D

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Shotgun Sam's Pizza Palace is re-opening in Tulsa
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2014, 09:41:11 PM »
I think they just rely on Facebook and word of mouth.

And word of mouth is apparently telling all their prospective customers exactly what you've told us (excluding the good parts). Either that or all their prospective customers have already given them a chance (which also goes along with what you've told us), which ended up being their only chance with a lot of people.

Both times I stopped by, the owner was not very personable.

I'm not surprised, although the owner's words that you shared above did seem more civil than I may have expected from someone in that situation.

I rarely buy pizza, but if I did, and if the place I went to closed hours before the posted time, they probably wouldn't get another chance with me. If it happened twice, zero likelihood that I'd give them another chance.


Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Shotgun Sam's Pizza Palace is re-opening in Tulsa
« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2014, 09:54:23 PM »
Ya that's why I said if they are running out of dough at 6:30 that means they are very slow. When your number of guests is very low it is almost impossible to predict how much dough to make, because if just a few groups happen to come in one day, that could mean a 30% increase in sales. And there is no way to plan for that swing. If you over prep by 30% every day, you are going to have a ton of waste.

Even if you make, say, three times as much dough as you think you'll need, it still won't cost much. That leaves you with a few options: 1) Risk running out of dough three or four hours before your posted closing time every day (which means no dinner rush and lots of prospective customers who will never be back); 2) Risk wasting a little bit of money by making too much dough (which will allow you to serve the dinner crowd, take their money, make them happy so they'll come back, etc.); 3) Learn the basics of dough management before you open a pizza joint, and use the refrigerator.

Probably a couple other options, too. 1 and 2 are both pretty stupid.

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Shotgun Sam's Pizza Palace is re-opening in Tulsa
« Reply #31 on: July 15, 2014, 09:55:13 PM »
looks like their ladies man hath dun booked hithself a bum trip on that titanic merry go not so round...hmmm.
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline nick57

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Re: Shotgun Sam's Pizza Palace is re-opening in Tulsa
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2014, 10:20:44 AM »
It's a shame that the owner tried to resurrect  a beloved eatery, and then dropped the ball. The social media was all a buzz over the news that Shotgun Sam's was coming back. Groups of people were making plans for parties there, and chomping at the bit to be one of the first customers. You guys may be right about them shooting themselves in the foot. It may be terminal. Customer perception goes a long way to success or failure. We'll see if they can pull themselves out of the hole they dug, or go the way of majority of startups.

Offline nick57

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Re: Shotgun Sam's Pizza Palace is re-opening in Tulsa
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2014, 07:41:14 PM »
Well, that wasn't long. The health dept closed them down on Wednesday. He was  cited for meat out of temp, and it looked like they were cleaning the kitchen from top to bottom. He said in the video the the meat temp was 60 degrees and he was upset that he had to throw away 600 lbs of product. He did not keep the meat in a walk in cooler, rather they were in fridges that the top opened up and you reached down into them to get the meat. Sounds like a typical episode of Kitchen Nightmares. I did notice in the video that they had a sheeter. I saw two Blodgett deck ovens also, looked used. Here is a story about it. In the story it says the meat was 2 degrees out of range, but I watched the video twice, and he stated that the meat temp was 60 degrees. Glad I did not get sick when I went.   http://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/investigations/restaurant-owner-feels-unfairly-targeted-by-tulsa-co-health-dept

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Shotgun Sam's Pizza Palace is re-opening in Tulsa
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2014, 09:37:20 AM »
I've worked at some very nasty restaurants that never had a problem passing health inspections, to my disbelief. About 20 years ago I quit working at the Damon's in downtown Columbus specifically because the ridiculous quantity of roaches in the onion bags grossed me out so much. Damon's went through a ton of onions, as their onion loaf was probably their most popular menu item. I was the only prep cook who was willing to do the dirty work of peeling and slicing the onions every day (100-200 lbs, if my memory is correct). Consequently, I also smelled like onions all the time, which does not wash out in the shower.

My point is that, in my experience, a restaurant has to be way beyond unhealthy to be shut down by the health department. So this Shotgun Sam's is probably a lot more unhealthy/dangerous than the immediate evidence suggests.

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Shotgun Sam's Pizza Palace is re-opening in Tulsa
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2014, 10:50:28 AM »
Might be `personality issues` here. Owner mentions `burying the hatchet`.......maybe he got on the wrong persons bad side.  :-\
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline nick57

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Re: Shotgun Sam's Pizza Palace is re-opening in Tulsa
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2014, 12:22:42 PM »
Comments on the Facebook page were not very kind to the owner. Bad atitude, rude to customers, etc. He did take down his facebook page in the last week. An anonoymis complaint to the health dept. Sounds like a disgruntled  ex-employee.  A lot of people are pretty upset that he dropped the ball and maybe ruined the Shotgun Sam's label. Reading his rants on FB, he always laid the blame on other things instead of himself. It's a shame, he had a ready market and blew it. I said he may not make it to a year, but maybe 6 months is more like it.

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Shotgun Sam's Pizza Palace is re-opening in Tulsa
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2014, 12:27:15 PM »
No way that dude tossed 600lbs. of sausage over a 2 degree temperature violation.....how much you wanna bet it`s sitting in a frig somewhere waiting for the `heat` to die down.  ;D
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline nick57

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Re: Shotgun Sam's Pizza Palace is re-opening in Tulsa
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2014, 02:13:54 PM »
No way that dude tossed 600lbs. of sausage over a 2 degree temperature violation.....how much you wanna bet it`s sitting in a frig somewhere waiting for the `heat` to die down.  ;D
  After that statement, I think it may be best not to go back. Thanks for the heads up Bob!  I don't really feel the need to get sick  :-X

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Shotgun Sam's Pizza Palace is re-opening in Tulsa
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2014, 03:51:22 PM »
If he said he had 600 lbs of meat, that's just absolute BS. If he had 10 cases of pepperoni, that's only 250 lbs. And that's a lot of pepperoni, especially for a place that doesn't have much business. Especially considering this place often had to close hours ahead of the posted closing time specifically because they ran out of dough. If they didn't plan well enough to have enough dough to last any particular day, it's very likely that they did the same thing with meats. That is, they'd be more likely to not have enough meat than to have three times more meat than necessary at any given time; particularly at the one moment in time when the health inspector shows up. Sausage is probably used as a topping half as much as pepperoni, so sausage weight wouldn't make up the difference. And beef would be used very little. Sub meat wouldn't add much more weight, either.

This guy is a very stupid person and a liar.


 

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