Author Topic: Went to a pizza class taught by a member of the US Pizza team  (Read 21384 times)

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Offline PizzaBrasil

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Re: Went to a pizza class taught by a member of the US Pizza team
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2006, 09:57:58 AM »
Peter:

Been lucky to have a brick oven, there were several pizza parties in my home.
All of those being great ones, ending with happy friends claiming for next pizza time.

I used to prepare different dough types along the ones that I like better. Normally 24 + hours of could rest.
On the day of the last two parties, because I was a little worried about the quantity of dough versus the quantity of mouths  :-\ I did new batches of the Tom Lehmann´s same day version and preferment, like you described in the specific TLNY thread, with nine hours of counter time (eight hours could be better, I think, I was overscheduled).
As normal, the dough was excellent as was the taste after topped and baked.

I could say that the dough were quite similar in the two parties, even my palate could be not trained as yours.
Eventually, in the comparison that you are mentioning above, could be interesting to try this one, or recall your memories to do that.
Because I tried and liked the TL one day version, I will love to know your opinion.

By the way, in the first mentioned party the pizzas were made with Raquel, TL and Patsy´s dough.
In the second one were limited to TL and Randy´s.
The winner, with different people tasting it in both parties, and with the same toppings was, by far, the Tom Lehmann´s with preferment and 24 hours rest dough.
The TL same day was there and the end of the two parties and was not evaluated. I liked more the 24 hours one.

Luis


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Went to a pizza class taught by a member of the US Pizza team
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2006, 10:35:12 AM »
Luis,

When I get around to making the dough using the formulation I posted above I plan to use the same basic sauce, toppings, etc., as when I made Randy's American style so that I have a good basis for comparison. Assuming the pizza survives the ordeal, I plan to post my results.

More than once I have thought to make a few hours, same-day version of the Lehmann dough since it would be pretty straightforward to do that. However, I felt that doing that would be a disservice to the Lehmann formulation itself--almost sacrilegious. On the other hand, Tom himself says that an emergency dough should be an extension of the normal dough and not an entirely new dough. So, I suspect he would condone modifying his formulation to create an "emergency" dough.

Peter

Offline PizzaBrasil

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Re: Went to a pizza class taught by a member of the US Pizza team
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2006, 01:23:16 PM »
Peter:

I am so sure that the pizza will survive as we will have another great point of view coming from you.
Talking apart, I am not only an unconditional reader of your opinion, as the pizzas that I try have a little ‘soul’ of you, too. Well, may be plus a samba soul at all.
Returning to the TL same day prefermented dough, it take 8/9 hours of rest from kneading, because of the preferment use. Before baking, it felt like the normal 24 hs retarded one.
If, speaking on emergency dough, we are intended to reduce the rested time to a couple of hours, I am pretty sure that by using IDY we could be with good results.
Of course, this opinion and the comparison is only valid when using the type of flour that I reach here and the use of high temperature (800´s) brick oven.

Luis

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Went to a pizza class taught by a member of the US Pizza team
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2006, 03:14:59 PM »
Recently, I decided to try the 3-hour dough recipe posted by Richard (Rkos) in Reply 15 of this thread. For my particular purposes, I cut the recipe in half—to make a single 14” pizza—and I used the baker’s percent version that I established and posted in Reply 24 above. In making the dough, I followed the instructions posted by Richard to the letter except that I added the flour a half-cup at a time rather than a cup at a time (since I had halved the recipe) and I found that I could knead the dough in about half the time specified by Richard (again, since I had halved the recipe). For convenience, I have set forth below the formulation I used, together with the volume measurements and other particulars:

100%, Bread flour (King Arthur brand), 9.24 oz. (261.70 g.), 2 c. + 2 T. + 1 t. (stir, scoop and level method)
62%, Water (warm), 5.72 oz. (162.25 g.), a bit less than 3/4 c.
4.6%, Sugar, 0.42 oz. (12.04 g.), 1 T.
5.3%, Oil (extra virgin olive oil), 0.49 oz. (13.87 g.), 1 T.
1.6%, Salt, 0.15 oz. (4.19 g.), 3/4 t.
1.6%, Active dry yeast (ADY), 0.15 oz. (4.19 g.), 1 1/8 t.
Actual water temperature used = 112 degrees F
Finished dough weight = 16.15 oz. (458.23 g.)
Finished dough temperature = 84.7 degrees F
Thickness factor (TF) = 0.105
Pizza size = 14”
Note: All measurements are U.S./metric standard

I had no problems whatsoever in making the dough. I allowed the dough to rise in successive 1-hour periods, with a punchdown in between. In each 1-hour period, the dough better than doubled in volume—almost tripling, in fact. I concluded that it would have been easy to knock about an hour off of the total rise time. However, to eke out a bit more flavor in the finished crust, I settled on the two one-hour rise periods. The finished dough was very easy to shape and stretch out to its final 14” size.

Since I had elected to make the finished pizza along the lines of Randy’s American style, I used a pizza screen (14”) and the same quality of toppings I typically use when I make my versions of Randy’s American style. As noted previously, my observation of the recipe posted by Richard is that it bears many similarities to my “thin” versions of Randy’s style pizza when the recipe is converted to a same-day, few-hours format. I used Randy’s Penzeys sauce recipe for the sauce (basically 6-in-1s with Penzeys pizza seasoning, oil and fresh garlic), Dragone whole-milk, low-moisture mozzarella cheese (a Saputo product), Johnsonville sausage (removed from the casing and pre-cooked until pink), some added red pepper flakes for more heat, hand-sliced Margherita pepperoni, and fresh pineapple. Using the screen also served to reduce the anticipated baking time so that I wouldn’t overheat my kitchen. Outside it was almost 100 degrees F. I turned on the oven, to 470 degrees F, about 10 minutes before I started to assemble the pizza.

After I had assembled the pizza, I placed it in the 470-degree preheated oven on the lowest oven rack position where it baked for about 7-8 minutes. When I saw that the crust had started to turn brown at the rim and the cheese was lightly browning and bubbling, I move the pizza off of the screen and onto the middle oven rack position, where it remained for about another 1-2 minutes. I estimate that the total elapsed time, from the time I turned on the oven to the time I removed the finished pizza from the oven and turned the oven off, was less than 25 minutes. I am certain that the pizza would have baked well on a pre-heated pizza stone but the equivalent elapsed oven time would have been over 2 hours (including the stone cool-down time).

The photos below show the finished product. The pizza turned out quite well and pretty much as I had expected from the formulation used. The crust was nicely browned top and bottom, and the crust and crumb were soft and chewy and breadlike, with decent oven spring (although the crumb at the rim was fairly tight). The crust also had a noticeable sweetness but, as I have discovered before in making my versions of Randy’s American style, all of the flavors and sensations harmonize very nicely, with the heat and spice of the sausage, pepperoni and red pepper flakes offsetting the crust sweetness and the natural sweetness of the pineapple. I concluded that the recipe I used would make a pretty good same-day, few-hours version of Randy’s American style. It won’t be as good as a cold fermented version, especially after a couple of days or so of dough fermentation, but it will do well when there is a need or desire to make a few-hours version. I also discovered that the pizza reheated very well the next day and the reheated slices were very tasty. As a result of my experience with the recipe, I plan to add it to my collection.

Peter
« Last Edit: June 08, 2006, 05:32:55 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Y-TOWN

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Re: Went to a pizza class taught by a member of the US Pizza team
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2006, 11:48:11 PM »
Pete,

Thanks for the report - glad to see someone try the recipe and consider it a workable short time recipe

Offline Wazatron

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Re: Went to a pizza class taught by a member of the US Pizza team
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2006, 02:26:34 PM »
I'm pretty new to pizza making, and I've also been spending most of my "pizza" time working on/researching an egg-based dough, so this sounds really intriguing to me. Perhaps it'll be a good dough for me to practice a lot of the bassics without having to invest 24+ hours each time.

I'll be out of town for a bit but when I get back I plan on trying this out. I'll post the results as soon as I'm able!
« Last Edit: June 29, 2006, 02:29:27 PM by Wazatron »

Offline dao

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Re: Went to a pizza class taught by a member of the US Pizza team
« Reply #31 on: July 02, 2006, 08:27:43 PM »
Thank you for the recipe Richard.  Here are my results. 

dao
« Last Edit: July 02, 2006, 08:35:39 PM by dao »

Offline dao

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Re: Went to a pizza class taught by a member of the US Pizza team
« Reply #32 on: July 02, 2006, 08:43:25 PM »
One last photo of the crumb structure.

Offline Y-TOWN

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Re: Went to a pizza class taught by a member of the US Pizza team
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2006, 12:56:14 AM »
Picture looks like it came out well - hope it had a taste you could live with.

I made another 2 hr. dough recipe today I received from another pizza making class -

It seems EZ'r and had a little better taste (to me anyway) than the recipe I posted on this tread.

I'll post it when I get a minute - it's late now



Offline enob

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Re: Went to a pizza class taught by a member of the US Pizza team
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2006, 04:46:15 PM »
I also tried your receipe following your instructions but with 2 variations:

1) I used cold water instead of warm
2) I put in the refig for 24 hours

I then took out for 2 hours before using and both myself and my family really liked it very much.
I'm going to add it to the top of my receipe collection..

Thank you for sharing 

Offline dao

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Re: Went to a pizza class taught by a member of the US Pizza team
« Reply #35 on: July 04, 2006, 04:27:23 AM »
How did the dough rise is you used ADY and cold water?

dao

Offline dao

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Re: Went to a pizza class taught by a member of the US Pizza team
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2006, 04:33:12 AM »
Picture looks like it came out well - hope it had a taste you could live with.

I made another 2 hr. dough recipe today I received from another pizza making class -

It seems EZ'r and had a little better taste (to me anyway) than the recipe I posted on this tread.

I'll post it when I get a minute - it's late now



Please do Richard,

I've just finished a batch of the red sauce recipe you posted.  I used minced garlic instead of powder.  I'll let y'all know how it turns out.  I'm looking forward to more recipes. 

Offline Y-TOWN

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Re: Went to a pizza class taught by a member of the US Pizza team
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2006, 09:35:25 AM »
Different 2 hour recipe - also from the cooking school (different pizza making class)

1-1/3 cup warm water (105-110* F)
1 packet instant dry yeast
2 cups of all purpose flour
1 cup Hi Gluten Floor (?)
1 tsp. olive oil
1 tsp. table sugar


To 1-1/3 cup of warm water add 1 tsp. table sugar and one packet active dry yeast, mix and keep warm. Wait 10 minutes until yeast starts to foam

In a large bowl combine flour ( I just use all bead flour, not the mixture called for above), water and yeast mixture, stir with wooden spoon until a soft dough forms. Turn dough out on a lightly floured surface. With lightly floured hands knead dough until it is smooth and elastic, about 5 minutes.

Put in lightly oiled bowl and cover with kitchen wrap. Punch down once during 2 hours.

========================
I do the water, sugar, yeast step. I then put the flour in my bread making machine (which has an option to knead without heating).

I start the machine and add the fluid mixture slowly to the flour in the machines hopper. I let the machine knead it for about 5-7 minutes and stop the process. I put the finished dough into a large oiled bowl and cover it with Saran wrap and set the bowl in my oven (NOT HEATED OR TURNED ON).

Punch it down once about an hour into the process and within 2 hours from start to finish you're ready to form the dough on a peel, pan or whatever you use.

I take the uncooked pie to my gas grill. I have an old 3" deep pie pan turned over with the stone that came from my Bella Pizza oven on top of it so the pie sits higher in the grill chamber with the lid closed (took the Bella apart before I sat it on the curb to get the stone when the oven stopped working)

I'd guess the grill is usually on high for 10-15 minutes before I put the pie in

The pie is on an aluminum pizza pan with numerous holes in it - I just set my pan on top of the stone and close the lid on the grill.

Cook time us usually 3-4 minutes, it would probably be less, but I can resist lifting the grill lid a few times during the process to make sure its not burning the pizza -- which is dumb as the grill chamber cools drastically every time I open it.

I think this recipe yields a better tasting crust than the one I posted originally wnen this discussion started, but then again pizza is really subjective  :)

« Last Edit: July 04, 2006, 09:37:49 AM by Rkos »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Went to a pizza class taught by a member of the US Pizza team
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2006, 09:55:25 AM »
Richard,

Do you think it is possible that the grill imparted its own flavor to the crust, which might have been responsible for your preferring that crust over the other one that was cooked in a normal oven (albeit commercial)? I know from my own experience that I can take the same dough and bake it on a stone, screen/disk or pan, or even alone on an oven rack, and get different results from a flavor, color and texture standpoint.

Peter

Offline Y-TOWN

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Re: Went to a pizza class taught by a member of the US Pizza team
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2006, 10:43:40 AM »
Pete,

- good thought, I sure didn't think of it --

I'm getting ready to make a pie for lunch - I'd put this recipe in the oven to see (you are probably very right) but the ease of the grill, time factor, heat of the day and such will put off that experiment until early fall.

In any case - the no salt added dough recipe is well accepted by the family.

Offline Y-TOWN

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Re: Went to a pizza class taught by a member of the US Pizza team
« Reply #40 on: July 04, 2006, 12:43:56 PM »
Today's results

Offline Y-TOWN

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Re: Went to a pizza class taught by a member of the US Pizza team
« Reply #41 on: July 04, 2006, 12:45:10 PM »
hi-tech setup


Offline Y-TOWN

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Re: Went to a pizza class taught by a member of the US Pizza team
« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2006, 12:46:51 PM »
a typical slice

Offline enob

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Re: Went to a pizza class taught by a member of the US Pizza team
« Reply #43 on: July 04, 2006, 02:53:27 PM »
How did the dough rise is you used ADY and cold water?

dao

dao:
The dough never rose with the cold water test but tasted very good a little sweet for my taste, so I'm presently testing this time using warm water and a little less sugar and a 24-48 cold rise.


Offline dao

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Re: Went to a pizza class taught by a member of the US Pizza team
« Reply #44 on: July 05, 2006, 12:37:25 PM »
enob,

My questions was about the yeast.  ADY has to be proofed or activated to be of any use, otherwise there would be no fermentation and  no need for the yeast at all. 

Regards,

dao

Offline jrceo

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Re: Went to a pizza class taught by a member of the US Pizza team
« Reply #45 on: July 15, 2006, 12:06:41 PM »
hi rkos, im trying your recipe on making 3hr dough, using baking flour from conagra. and simple ingrendients.. nothing special about them, Current status is, the dough is resting in a warm ambient temp, for one our, shortly after that ill PUNCH it and let it rest again for one hr.

Ill take pictures now of the HUNG dung dough resting..at 9:06 am pst california time.

Offline naschol

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Re: Went to a pizza class taught by a member of the US Pizza team
« Reply #46 on: July 16, 2006, 07:01:58 PM »
So, how about the recipe for the white sauce? ;D

Nancy

Offline jsaras

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Re: Went to a pizza class taught by a member of the US Pizza team
« Reply #47 on: July 10, 2012, 06:44:05 PM »
I decided to give this recipe a go last night. I used the "Pizzeria R" spicy drizzle oil on the rim to give the crust the illusion of flavor.  I deviated from the written handling instructions.  I used a stand mixer to combine the ingredients and then used a "stretch and fold" to create the ball.  After an hour's rest I did another stretch and fold and cooked it an hour later.

At this point in my pizza making, it seems like dough handling is almost as important as the ingredients
Things have never been more like today than they are right now.

Offline Y-TOWN

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Re: Went to a pizza class taught by a member of the US Pizza team
« Reply #48 on: July 17, 2012, 09:28:02 AM »
I decided to give this recipe a go last night. I used the "Pizzeria R" spicy drizzle oil on the rim to give the crust the illusion of flavor.  I deviated from the written handling instructions.  I used a stand mixer to combine the ingredients and then used a "stretch and fold" to create the ball.  After an hour's rest I did another stretch and fold and cooked it an hour later.

At this point in my pizza making, it seems like dough handling is almost as important as the ingredients

jsaras

I was surprised to see this old tread resurrected.

What did you think of the recipe?

I still use it weekly but cut the sugar to a little over 1 TSP




Y-Town

Offline jsaras

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Re: Went to a pizza class taught by a member of the US Pizza team
« Reply #49 on: July 23, 2012, 05:25:38 PM »
As I recall, I was expecting the dough to feel like the typical high-hydration gloppy dough; but it was the opposite. I just added very small amounts of water until I got the typical satin ball.

The dough was OK, especially for a two-hour formulation, but I still think that the "Pizzeria R" emergency dough (3 hours) has been my favorite so far in that category.

Things have never been more like today than they are right now.


 

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