Author Topic: in your WFO, floor temp or air temp?  (Read 692 times)

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Online mkevenson

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in your WFO, floor temp or air temp?
« on: April 25, 2014, 11:25:44 AM »
Having just used my PP oven I continue to measure floor temp with my infrared therm. I asked the owners of Pizza Party about their methods of temp recording since they supply an air temp therm. Here are a couple answers to my Email:
 


my question:
(I see on your videos that you recommend an oven temp measured in the air by
the supplied thermometer. Most of the members of the PM forum use a measurement
of floor heat measured by an infrared thermometer. Is this method used by you?)
 
answer #1
 
hello
generally:
- to do the tests on the pizza oven we use infrared thermometer
- to bake the pizza we use the thermometer supplied
our method and 99% of customers measured in the air by the supplied
thermometer, because the temperature of the air has more variations, than the
temperature of the stovetops

stovetops temperature is more constant

air temperature, do you know how to behave with the management of fire and
cooking times
 
answer #2
 
 
hello
in Italy almost all people who have a wood-fired oven Pizza Party or another
oven, use the air temperature


Francesco (3391586284)

 
Mark

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Offline Gosseni

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Re: in your WFO, floor temp or air temp?
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2014, 10:19:52 AM »
I think good fire management requires that you measure both.

Offline shuboyje

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Re: in your WFO, floor temp or air temp?
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2014, 10:43:20 AM »
I personally don't see any reason to measure air temperature, and have never heard of anyone managing a solid fueled oven for pizza based on air temperature.  No matter what you need to measure the temperature of the cooking floor.  It directly conducts heat to the base of your pizza, so it's temperature has a direct effect on the outcome of the bake.  The other thing you need for a balanced bake is enough top heat to balance the bake time the floor temperature will achieve.  The ONLY way to control that heat is with the size of your fire and generally the amount of open flame.  If the top is cooking too fast you let the fire die down a bit.  If it is cooking to slow you get some more open flame going.  Where does air temperature really come into play?   
-Jeff

Offline Gosseni

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Re: in your WFO, floor temp or air temp?
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2014, 11:10:39 AM »
Correct Shuboyje. But if you know air temperature in advance flame control becomes more accurate and predictive.

Online TXCraig1

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Re: in your WFO, floor temp or air temp?
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2014, 12:54:58 PM »
First, I question your ability (just about anyone's ability for that matter) to even accurately measure air temp.  Second, air temp can vary dramatically in a very short period of time and is not necessarily indicative or correlated to any meaningful temperature measurement.

I tend to agree with Jeff that air temp is all but meaningless.
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Offline wolver

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Re: in your Wood fired oven, floor temp or air temp?
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2014, 05:59:13 PM »
yes TXCraig1, the ability is very important

I measure the air temperature in the pizza oven and i look the fire, i don't measure floor temp with infrared therm

Online TXCraig1

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Re: in your Wood fired oven, floor temp or air temp?
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2014, 08:02:12 PM »
yes TXCraig1, the ability is very important

I measure the air temperature in the pizza oven and i look the fire, i don't measure floor temp with infrared therm

How do you measure the air temp?
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Offline shuboyje

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Re: in your Wood fired oven, floor temp or air temp?
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2014, 08:29:18 PM »
yes TXCraig1, the ability is very important

I measure the air temperature in the pizza oven and i look the fire, i don't measure floor temp with infrared therm

Just a few days ago you were asking for advice on how to fire your oven you just got, today you are giving advice.  Seems a little premature...
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 08:40:23 PM by shuboyje »
-Jeff

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: in your WFO, floor temp or air temp?
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2014, 08:35:24 PM »
There is no practical way to measure the air temp unless you remove the fire, door the oven, let it stabilize, THEN measure the air temp (which will begin fluctuating wildly when you open the door).  WFO's do not cook by air temp, they cook by conductive and radiant heat.

Online TXCraig1

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Re: in your WFO, floor temp or air temp?
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2014, 08:52:22 PM »
There is no practical way to measure the air temp unless you remove the fire, door the oven, let it stabilize, THEN measure the air temp (which will begin fluctuating wildly when you open the door).  WFO's do not cook by air temp, they cook by conductive and radiant heat.

Exactly.
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Offline breadstoneovens

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Re: in your WFO, floor temp or air temp?
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2014, 10:05:47 PM »
I get that question a lot as well and here is my answer which is line with TXcraig1 and Tscarborough. This mostly applies to people who just acquired an oven:
The ovens mounted with a thermometer on the door to measure the air temp provide a very poor way to measure the temperature. I can get the thermometer to show 800 F in 10 minutes with a good fire but wouldn't be able to cook a pizza. Also remove the fire or open the door and it will dramatically drop.

An IR thermometer is a good supplement but not sufficient to accurately measure the temperature. In 30 minute I can have the IR show 800 F but it doesn't mean I can cook pizza. Try to cook 2 pizza in a row or let the fire slow down and you will see the temperature drop rapidly and your pizza won't cook.

A dome and or flow thermometer that reads the temperature at the core of the oven, in the thickness of the materials is the most accurate. Once that thermometer show 700 F you can remove the fire or let it slow down and you can still cook pizza after pizza.
Used along with an IR, to make sure the floor or dome is not too hot, is going to be the most efficient way to measure the temperature of the oven.

All that said once you get to know your oven, you can tell the temperature by the color of the dome, how long the fire had been burning and so on.
WFO cooking is about passion.

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: in your WFO, floor temp or air temp?
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2014, 08:38:11 PM »
Here is how you measure air temp in brick ovens:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrometric_cone

Offline stonecutter

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Re: in your WFO, floor temp or air temp?
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2014, 08:59:13 PM »
Another reason I don't use IR guns....you end up worrying about numbers instead of using your senses to learn how an oven is performing.  I'm not saying they are useless, just that experience is a better teacher than numbers on a gun.
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Look at a stone cutter hammering away at his rock, perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred-and-first blow it will split in two, and I know it was not the last blow that did it, but all that had gone before.
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Offline wolver

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Re: in your WFO, floor temp or air temp?
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2014, 06:14:34 AM »
shuboyje.. you're right, I have little experience sorry
 :(

Online mkevenson

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Re: in your WFO, floor temp or air temp?
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2014, 11:18:44 AM »
Another reason I don't use IR guns....you end up worrying about numbers instead of using your senses to learn how an oven is performing.  I'm not saying they are useless, just that experience is a better teacher than numbers on a gun.

Ah, experience. who would need measurement tools if we all knew the measurements without them?
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

Offline stonecutter

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Re: in your WFO, floor temp or air temp?
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2014, 01:57:45 PM »
Ah, experience. who would need measurement tools if we all knew the measurements without them?

Hmm. I wonder how people managed for centuries without them?
http://oldworldstoneandgarden.com/

Look at a stone cutter hammering away at his rock, perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred-and-first blow it will split in two, and I know it was not the last blow that did it, but all that had gone before.
Jacob August Riis

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: in your WFO, floor temp or air temp?
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2014, 02:13:56 PM »
I used mine when I built the oven to learn it, now I use it to check for other foods.

Offline weemis

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Re: in your WFO, floor temp or air temp?
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2014, 02:33:48 PM »
Another reason I don't use IR guns....you end up worrying about numbers instead of using your senses to learn how an oven is performing.  I'm not saying they are useless, just that experience is a better teacher than numbers on a gun.

Agreed. Also, cooking a pizza shows you anything you missed with general observation.
Nick Gore - just a dough eyed wanderer

Online mkevenson

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Re: in your WFO, floor temp or air temp?
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2014, 02:45:55 PM »
Hmm. I wonder how people managed for centuries without them?

experience and teaching from those who knew what they were doing. Unfortunately, not all of has have a personal teacher at hand. Hence the value of learning from sites like this.

Mark
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Offline stonecutter

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Re: in your WFO, floor temp or air temp?
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2014, 04:14:40 PM »
experience and teaching from those who knew what they were doing. Unfortunately, not all of has have a personal teacher at hand. Hence the value of learning from sites like this.

Mark

This is an interesting view point.  What are you saying, that everyone that used a wood oven in the past had a personal teacher?   It's likely family members that used them passed their  knowledge down, but I doubt everyone had instruction....and even less access to information than today.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 07:37:08 PM by stonecutter »
http://oldworldstoneandgarden.com/

Look at a stone cutter hammering away at his rock, perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred-and-first blow it will split in two, and I know it was not the last blow that did it, but all that had gone before.
Jacob August Riis