Author Topic: Dough thickness calculations  (Read 1574 times)

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Offline Bubba Kuhn

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Dough thickness calculations
« on: October 09, 2006, 07:13:36 PM »
I was wondering when you do a thickness calculation to figure from a dough balls weight.  How do you adjust for the rim left by the pizza maker around the edge? As it differs from pizza maker to pizza maker and from shop to shop. some shops cut a heavier dough to leave a thicker crust around the edge and still as thin as you please in the center.
I have worked shops that the pizza looked like a fat bike tire around the edge.  And so it goes. I assume that you are calculating a means average across the whole dough to derive the crust thickness? Is this right?
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Dough thickness calculations
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2006, 07:50:19 PM »
bubba,

I am not exactly certain how the thickness factor evolved, who created it, and whether it took into account the size of the rim. The thickness factor is a loading factor that takes into account the surface area of a pizza and a thickness aspect. The thickness factor was never meant to be an absolute number. It was intended that one increase it or decrease it as desired. Usually when someone gets the desired finished characteristics and the desired rim size, the thickness factor essentially becomes a personal one. As an example, for the Lehmann dough formulation, the thickness factor that I believe Tom Lehmann has stated himself is 0.10. I frequently use 0.105, and some members prefer 0.09 or even lower. Some of the so-called "elite" NY styles can even get around 0.08. It's all a matter of personal preference.

Peter

Offline Bubba Kuhn

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Re: Dough thickness calculations
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2006, 08:53:17 PM »
Very interesting. I have seen it mentioned around this forums and was not getting its meaning or purpose.

When I spin a dough I choose on of two diffrent techniques depending on if I want a tapered finish or if I need a more substantial center to carry the load of ten toppings. I will float the spin supended on my fist to create a perfect tapered crust for a pie with no more then three or four toppings. 

If it is a garbage can combo pie with to much stuff on it.  I will not float the crust in that case. I just air spin it extra hard  letting centrifugal force do the work and leaving it a little more substantial across the whole to support the extra weight of the overly topped pie. Yes I have a ten topping pizza on my menu. It is about 20% of sales.  These are on the menu as they make the most money and if you can not support your art in the market you can't serve any one any thing.  Remember Lombardi's  started because the grocery store was not doing so well and they need to make some money.

There is no shame in using your skill to make a dollar and raise your kids.
I rather ask for it up front then beg for donations depending on the kindness of strangers. Seems to me if your raising a family that is kind of an irresponsible way to go about it. But to each his own.

Guess I am annoyed that I was slammed in another post  for charging on my site for access to info recipes and video instrutions. It is this spirit of American inginuity that led to pizza being developed in this country to begin with.
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Dough thickness calculations
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2006, 09:38:27 PM »
bubba,

To get an idea of a simple application of the thickness factor, you may want to take a look at the Lehmann dough calculator at http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_calculator.html. Originally, I created a spreadsheet to use the thickness factor, desired number of pizzas, and desired pizza size to calculate the required total dough weight. Then, using baker's percents, the spreadsheet would spit out the quantities of all of the ingredients required to make the desired number of pizzas. Subsequently, one of our members, Boy Hits Car, offered to program the whole procedure in Flash 9, which is web-based and now supported on the forum's server and available to all. If you plug in some numbers you will see how useful the tool can be.

I won't comment on charging for access to specific information other than to say that people in general want access to information on the internet for nothing, no matter how useful the information is or may be to them. I can see it here on the forum and it pains me.

Peter

Offline Bubba Kuhn

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Re: Dough thickness calculations
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2006, 10:21:25 PM »
Thank you I will go play with it.


Went there did that .........
Very cool tool!
« Last Edit: October 09, 2006, 10:26:15 PM by bubba »
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Offline DKM

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Re: Dough thickness calculations
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2006, 08:26:27 PM »
There is no shame in using your skill to make a dollar and raise your kids.
I rather ask for it up front then beg for donations depending on the kindness of strangers. Seems to me if your raising a family that is kind of an irresponsible way to go about it. But to each his own.

Never entered a pizza joint yet that did that.

DKM
I'm on too many of these boards

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Dough thickness calculations
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2006, 08:36:26 PM »
I believe bubba was referring to his website, not his pizzeria.

Peter

Offline Bubba Kuhn

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Re: Dough thickness calculations
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2006, 09:37:19 PM »
My remark was due to a statement........................
One of the members on this forums has implied that setting an out right fee for services is somehow a less then scruples behavior. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3762.msg32427.html#msg32427
I think it was something like "if it is not free it is crap".
I was wondering how that philosophy would apply in the real world of the pizza business!
Could you see it at the counter on a busy Friday night with a full oven and the counter is over run and out of the corner of your ear through the din you hear the waitress at the till saying to the customer, "no really if you can just give me a dollar or two and if not well maybe some other time. Thanks and come back again."   
If it was not for the real world and the business aspects of pizza that has propagated it across time and the country there would be no pizzamaking.com forums.
 
Remember I offer the real thing not re-created nor reversed engineered. No guessing at the production technique.
A straight forward do as Joe does method of teaching anyone by showing then how to do it.  That method was and I am sure still is used by most independent shops and many franchises too..
I have trained more pizza makers over the years then I can count. That is how it was done and how most people then were trained.

People today seem to be overtaken by some of the newer more erudite artistic aspects of pizza making. That is all good, but....... 
Lets not forget that is was the independent American pizza shops that are so legendary "rightfully so" on this board are the classic story of first and second  immigrant desperation transformed into American ingenuity.  That means out right fees for services, small business, Ah the little guys ladder to success. That is what forged a generation of free standing independent business owners who gave a lot of you your first job in high school. Independent pizza shops, grocers, furniture stores, drug stores, lumber yards, newspapers, etc.
Please remember them kindly
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Offline David

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Re: Dough thickness calculations
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2006, 10:21:32 PM »
My remark was due to a statement........................
One of the members on this forums has implied that setting an out right fee for services is somehow a less then scruples behavior. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3762.msg32427.html#msg32427
I think it was something like "if it is not free it is crap".

I think you'll find a more diverse, knowledgeable and in depth source of information right here on this Forum absolutely Free!You can't get better value than that IMO.Though I would highly reccomend you make a voluntary donation toward it's upkeep (I think Steve suggested something similar to what you would pay for an annual Magazine Subscription?)With the exception of just a few,the vast majority of members here contribute to the site with no personal alternative agenda or to make money out of you.Thank goodness it remains a "Crap Free" zone.

Bubba,
Just to set the record straight.........
My comments regarding keeping this site "Crap free" was not directed at you or your  website.It was in fact to those same people who crawl such sites as this to garner email addresses and who post links to such things as Viagara etc.I trust you know what I mean.so I apologize if my comments were out of context.
However as someone who is  presumably encouraging readers of this forum to pay for your knowledge  and learned skills should they choose,I would hope a least after describing the majority of Forum contributors as "Wannabees",you would have the professional courtesy of supporting such a fine site financially before insulting the passion of it's members !.I'm sure you have learned from it and I know you have had some of your misconceptions corrected,
                                                                                                                               David


Great looking pie! The crust looks to have all the right stuff.
It appears to be a nice long cold proof dough instead of a hot rise. Correct? How did you harvest your wild yeast spoor and where from?  Do you find that it mutates or is in any way unstable or have you managed to keep it from changing generation to generation? And what do you feed it and how do you keep it? Potato starch or what? I have only a cursory knowladge of the mico biology it takes to make a yeast strain a pet. I would love to know how to keep one on a leash for my very own like the mico brewers do.




I was thinking this board might have other real pizza makers on it but I see that it is populated with wannabees. The thing you are missing is the basic chemistry and micro biology that is the art of dough.Learn how yeast works on protien and gluten then the anwser is simple. Need to know more?
Any great pizza maker would not post his trade secrets to any public board.

I do private consultation work for those who want to save years of trial and ERROR. Contact me at admin@homespunpizza.com if you are interested in the real deal.

Ps It does not matter if you make your dough by hand in a well on a table in a bread machien or a 120 quart hobart mixer. It is chemistry not machanics at play here.


  I'm sure you'll find the "Wannabees" have answers to your questions and many more right here.
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Offline Bubba Kuhn

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Re: Dough thickness calculations
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2006, 10:54:41 PM »
Point taken thank you.
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