Author Topic: So it begins... in Leuven.  (Read 2342 times)

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Offline sub

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Re: So it begins... in Leuven.
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2014, 06:14:07 AM »
Nice work Christian !

With sand. At first I wanted to do a 3-centered arch like other people here, but then I figured (although I have no idea what I'm talking about) that one arch would be a lot more solid. Also, I guess I might have done the 3-centered arch if I would have built a huge oven. But at 42 inches you're talking such a small arch, and considering the height of the bricks to take in account it wouldn't really have been a nice transition anyway, but a one-centered arch with a dent in it at the  end.

What's the dome height then ?


Offline blacroix

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Re: So it begins... in Leuven.
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2014, 08:42:04 AM »
I am very interested in your project.  I am considering building a 36" version of what you are doing (single radius arc).  Yours is 42" diameter cooking floor.  What did you use as the radius of your arc?  And as asked above, what is the height of your dome?

Brian

Offline kiwipete

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Re: So it begins... in Leuven.
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2014, 06:07:15 PM »
I'm sure Christian will tell us the height shortly, but looking at some of the pictures, I'm guessing around 13 inches..

Offline ChristianVerschaeren

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Re: So it begins... in Leuven.
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2014, 12:29:05 AM »
Height is 31 cm.
17,5 of arc and 13,5 of soldier height.
As I knew the width (105 cm) and the height (17,5 cm) the arc should have I used this method to draw it: http://www.newwoodworker.com/layoutarc.html

I finished the cupola yesterday, I'll post a pic later.

edit:spelling
« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 04:08:34 AM by ChristianVerschaeren »

Offline ChristianVerschaeren

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Re: So it begins... in Leuven.
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2014, 04:05:33 AM »
Done.

Offline ChristianVerschaeren

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Offline ChristianVerschaeren

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Re: So it begins... in Leuven.
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2014, 03:31:31 AM »
Took out the sand form after 2 days.
The brickwork is very traditional Neapolitan, as in, it looks like I threw the bricks in from a distance.
The outer bricks I could put in place doing something that sort of looked like masonry, towards the middle the gaps got so big  and irregular that I went with the slurry method. And it worked a charm, I didn't really have to hydrate the mortar that much more to be runny enough.

Things I would do different: The oven looks very small on the inside. I think I'd like a bigger one.  Also, at first I wanted to do 15,5 soldier height and 15,5 arc, but when I drew it out, the arc was pretty much horizontal and it scared the %$# out of me, so I went with 13,5/17,5. But now towards the walls the ceiling seems very low, even too low to put a big log. So that might have not been a good idea. Time will tell.

Also: Next time I would put a layer of saran wrap over the newspaper. I'm having a hard time getting all the paper of, in fact, I gave up, and it will eventually burn off I guess.

Offline kiwipete

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Re: So it begins... in Leuven.
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2014, 06:10:20 AM »
Also: Next time I would put a layer of saran wrap over the newspaper. I'm having a hard time getting all the paper of, in fact, I gave up, and it will eventually burn off I guess.

I had exactly the same experience, but nevertheless would do it the same way next time around. It looks butt ugly whilst doing small curing fires, but eventually its gone. Probably wouldn't do saran..

Offline ChristianVerschaeren

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Re: So it begins... in Leuven.
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2014, 06:32:39 AM »
I thought saran wouldn't stick to cement but you're probably right. Good to know though that the New Zealand Herald has the same cohesion coŽfficient as the Gazetta dello sport.  ;)

Offline ChristianVerschaeren

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Re: So it begins... in Leuven.
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2014, 04:14:06 AM »
So I'm 5 days in the drying fase, but when I hold my hand up in the dome it feels really warm and humid. I don't know what causes the heat, is the cement still generating heat or is it accumulated heat from the sun. I also don't know where the humidity is coming from, is it the cement, the newspapers?

As I want to start curing fires next monday, I'm thinking I need to get more moisture out by then.
I'm considering two things:

- The air in there feels very static, so maybe lie a blowdryer in there for a few hours, maybe even on cold, just to get some moist air out and fresh air in.
- Tape of the door after I put in one of those humidity absorbers for damp rooms and RV's (http://www.bunnings.com.au/damp-rid-300g-disposable-moisture-absorber_p4470046 ) or make one myself using silica gel or, even simpler, just put in a few soup plates with rock salt.





Offline stonecutter

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Re: So it begins... in Leuven.
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2014, 06:53:01 AM »
So I'm 5 days in the drying fase, but when I hold my hand up in the dome it feels really warm and humid. I don't know what causes the heat, is the cement still generating heat or is it accumulated heat from the sun. I also don't know where the humidity is coming from, is it the cement, the newspapers?

As I want to start curing fires next monday, I'm thinking I need to get more moisture out by then.
I'm considering two things:

- The air in there feels very static, so maybe lie a blowdryer in there for a few hours, maybe even on cold, just to get some moist air out and fresh air in.
- Tape of the door after I put in one of those humidity absorbers for damp rooms and RV's (http://www.bunnings.com.au/damp-rid-300g-disposable-moisture-absorber_p4470046 ) or make one myself using silica gel or, even simpler, just put in a few soup plates with rock salt.


You can just keep it simple and aim a fan into the oven.  Masonry will hold a lot of water and release it slowly.  Depending on a few factors, the heat you feel could be from the mortar curing, but I doubt it...there isn't enough of it in your dome to cause that much heat 5 days later.  It's probably heat from the sun, and with the humidity it will feel warmer too.

Get some air moving in there, and start drying it with low temp firings.
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Offline ChristianVerschaeren

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Re: So it begins... in Leuven.
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2014, 07:40:44 AM »
Will do, thanks! :D

Offline blacroix

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Re: So it begins... in Leuven.
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2014, 07:47:32 AM »
I have wondered about all the curing fires.  Would it be fine to just light up a 100w incandescent bulb inside the dome, then put an insulated door in place?  Wouldn't that be a great first step?  It could easily run 24 hrs each day.  Would that heat the inside enough to drive some moisture out?  Obviously not a replacement for curing fires, but seems (to me) a very simple and more consistent first step.

Brian

Offline stonecutter

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Re: So it begins... in Leuven.
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2014, 08:18:48 AM »
I have wondered about all the curing fires.  Would it be fine to just light up a 100w incandescent bulb inside the dome, then put an insulated door in place?  Wouldn't that be a great first step?  It could easily run 24 hrs each day.  Would that heat the inside enough to drive some moisture out?  Obviously not a replacement for curing fires, but seems (to me) a very simple and more consistent first step.

Brian

You will hinder the drying out process and seal moisture inside the oven chamber if you close off the oven.  A light won't do much...it would have to not only dry the humidity in the air( where will it go?). But also heat the whole mass to be effective.  Not to mention you'd probably melt the cord before too long.

  The best thing to do is let the atmosphere do it's work ( and assist it with a fan) until the mortar has cured to a point, at which point you use fire to dry it out.   Fires do not 'cure' an oven...I know it's a common term, but it's an incorrect use of the word and creates confusion.
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Offline blacroix

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Re: So it begins... in Leuven.
« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2014, 11:08:42 AM »
You will hinder the drying out process and seal moisture inside the oven chamber if you close off the oven.  A light won't do much...it would have to not only dry the humidity in the air( where will it go?). But also heat the whole mass to be effective.  Not to mention you'd probably melt the cord before too long.

  The best thing to do is let the atmosphere do it's work ( and assist it with a fan) until the mortar has cured to a point, at which point you use fire to dry it out.   Fires do not 'cure' an oven...I know it's a common term, but it's an incorrect use of the word and creates confusion.

That makes sense - so maybe get a small fan that can fit into the oven and leave it plugged in overnight to just help move air... thanks for the sanity check!

Online TXCraig1

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Re: So it begins... in Leuven.
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2014, 11:50:42 AM »
Also: Next time I would put a layer of saran wrap over the newspaper. I'm having a hard time getting all the paper of, in fact, I gave up, and it will eventually burn off I guess.

I wouldn't loose any sleep over newspaper. It doesn't stand a chance against the temps that oven will see.

I think I'd avoid using any plastics in my construction. Maybe it wouldn't matter, but that's a big chance to take. Who knows what would get absorbed into the brick as they breakdown in the initial firings.  :-X
Pizza is not bread.

Online TXCraig1

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Re: So it begins... in Leuven.
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2014, 11:56:12 AM »
  The best thing to do is let the atmosphere do it's work ( and assist it with a fan) until the mortar has cured to a point, at which point you use fire to dry it out.   

When I got my oven, it was pretty wet from sitting in a open-air warehouse here in the 99% humidity. The marble slabs were wrapped in newspaper inside the oven and even it was damp. I put a small fan in the mouth (pointed out) for a few days, and much of the brick on the inside got a whitish coating as if minerals were leached out of the brick as the water came out. You could wipe it off with your finger. I didn't taste it. It disappeared  after the first full firing.

Is this common?
Pizza is not bread.

Offline ChristianVerschaeren

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Re: So it begins... in Leuven.
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2014, 11:58:59 AM »
I have already given up on the saran wrap idea, it was given in by the frustration of putting a whole lotta effort into this baby and than not being able to see what a pretty face she has 'cause it's wrapped in old newspapers.  ;)

Online TXCraig1

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Re: So it begins... in Leuven.
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2014, 12:17:39 PM »
I have already given up on the saran wrap idea, it was given in by the frustration of putting a whole lotta effort into this baby and than not being able to see what a pretty face she has 'cause it's wrapped in old newspapers.  ;)

She will look a lot prettier with a beautiful Neapolitan pizza baking inside, and I promise there will be no newspaper to obstruct the view.  ;D
Pizza is not bread.

Offline stonecutter

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Re: So it begins... in Leuven.
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2014, 12:38:03 PM »
When I got my oven, it was pretty wet from sitting in a open-air warehouse here in the 99% humidity. The marble slabs were wrapped in newspaper inside the oven and even it was damp. I put a small fan in the mouth (pointed out) for a few days, and much of the brick on the inside got a whitish coating as if minerals were leached out of the brick as the water came out. You could wipe it off with your finger. I didn't taste it. It disappeared  after the first full firing.

Is this common?

I'm  almost positive at what you saw was efflorescence.  After seeing so many pictures of how those ovens are constructed using salt, this would definitely cause crystallization  after water migrates out of the masonry.
Edited for spelling
« Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 01:25:45 PM by stonecutter »
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