Author Topic: Aromatic Yeast Products from Lallemand  (Read 4367 times)

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Aromatic Yeast Products from Lallemand
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2014, 01:06:13 PM »
I really don't understand the spec sheet for the Florapan A16 that was sent with the samples.  If anyone understands the spec sheet let me know what it means.  I was not sent a spec sheet for the Florapan A18.  If anyone wants me to try and get a spec sheet for the A18 let me know.

Norma

CFU/g stands for Colony Forming Units per gram - basically the number of viable organisms per gram.

For example yeast 10^10 CFU/g = 10 billion live yeast cells per gram.
In comparison, 10^5 Lactic Bacteria CFU/g = 10,000 live lactic acid bacteria per gram - .0001 of the yeast quantity - for all intents and purposes this is zero in comparison the the yeast.

In a nutshell, this is telling you it's basically all yeast with very few extraneous organisms and no heavy metal contamination.
Pizza is not bread.


Online Pete-zza

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Re: Aromatic Yeast Products from Lallemand
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2014, 01:08:51 PM »
Norma,

You might want to count the cells in one gram to be sure that they didn't stiff you.

Peter

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Aromatic Yeast Products from Lallemand
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2014, 01:11:04 PM »
I can see how some people might have balked at first when using ADY because it had to be prehydrated in water at a particular temperature, which users may not have done with care and attention unless they used whatever thermometers existed at the time for home use. By contrast, fresh yeast, with around 70% water, was already hydrated and could just be tossed into the mixer bowl. I remember reading that the biggest complaint that the yeast producers received from home bakers had to do with failures that were attributed to temperature. I was able to find the post I entered on this subject at Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=4747.msg40332;topicseen#msg40332. Tom Lehmann has also written on many occasions about some of the adverse effects on ADY yeast performance when the water temperature is off.


5% of people can't be made happy period. I'm not saying it wasn't without a learning curve, but just about everything that was developed to support the war effort enjoyed wide support after.
Pizza is not bread.

Online norma427

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Re: Aromatic Yeast Products from Lallemand
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2014, 01:16:40 PM »
CFU/g stands for Colony Forming Units per gram - basically the number of viable organisms per gram.

For example yeast 10^10 CFU/g = 10 billion live yeast cells per gram.
In comparison, 10^5 Lactic Bacteria CFU/g = 10,000 live lactic acid bacteria per gram - .0001 of the yeast quantity - for all intents and purposes this is zero in comparison the the yeast.

In a nutshell, this is telling you it's basically all yeast with very few extraneous organisms and no heavy metal contamination.

Thanks so much Craig for helping me to understand what CFU/g stands for and the other information.  I knew if someone understood the spec sheet it would be you.   ;D

Norma
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Re: Aromatic Yeast Products from Lallemand
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2014, 01:20:31 PM »
Norma,

You might want to count the cells in one gram to be sure that they didn't stiff you.

Peter

 :-D  You are the one that is so precise.  Maybe you want to do the count of the cells in one gram to make sure they did not stiff me.  I wanted to add that when I took that photo of the dough on the scale it really said 5.3 ounce, but somehow the scale changed weights when I took the photo.  I know that scale is not that precise. 

Norma
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Re: Aromatic Yeast Products from Lallemand
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2014, 01:23:47 PM »
These are two photos of how the dough ball is fermenting right now with the Florapan A18.  I wonder if anyone has any advice as when to use it to make a pizza?

Norma
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Aromatic Yeast Products from Lallemand
« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2014, 01:57:11 PM »
Thanks so much Craig for helping me to understand what CFU/g stands for and the other information.  I knew if someone understood the spec sheet it would be you.   ;D

Norma

Glad I could help.  That's how I feel about you and a new yeast/baking product. If any can figure it out it's you!
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Re: Aromatic Yeast Products from Lallemand
« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2014, 04:50:40 PM »
That's how I feel about you and a new yeast/baking product. If any can figure it out it's you!

 :-D  I might need Peter to help me out.  If you want to try any of the aromatic yeasts let me know.

Norma
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Aromatic Yeast Products from Lallemand
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2014, 04:53:26 PM »
:-D  I might need Peter to help me out.  If you want to try any of the aromatic yeasts let me know.

Norma

After you have experimented with them, if there is one that really knocks your socks off, I'd like to try it.
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Re: Aromatic Yeast Products from Lallemand
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2014, 05:22:26 PM »
After you have experimented with them, if there is one that really knocks your socks off, I'd like to try it.

I'll wait and see what happens.  If I find one that knocks my socks 8) off you will be the first to get some to try.   

I just checked on the dough ball to see when it might be ready to be used.  I should have used the poppy seed trick but did not.  The dough ball does look like it might have doubled in size.  It is storming in our area now so I will let the dough ball sit out a little at about 80 degrees F.  The dough does have a faint beer smell.  Hopefully I get to try the dough out tonight.

Norma
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Aromatic Yeast Products from Lallemand
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2014, 05:35:09 PM »
Norma,

We are all flying blind on this one. It sounds like Lallemand would prefer that users use a preferment, like a sponge, while acknowledging that their aromatic yeasts can be used with refrigerated doughs, like pizza dough, but not providing any details or recommendations for such use apart from suggesting that the amount be increased over normal levels used for other yeast products and that the fermentation time be increased. At lead that is how I interpreted their promotional materials. I think they want people like you to experiment with their products, including dosages, and report back with your findings. You already seem to be using an increased amount from a baker's percent standpoint, so I guess you should monitor the development of the dough as you would one of your regular doughs, including looking for fermentation bubble activity and dough volume expansion.

Peter

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Re: Aromatic Yeast Products from Lallemand
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2014, 06:00:00 PM »
Norma,

We are all flying blind on this one. It sounds like Lallemand would prefer that users use a preferment, like a sponge, while acknowledging that their aromatic yeasts can be used with refrigerated doughs, like pizza dough, but not providing any details or recommendations for such use apart from suggesting that the amount be increased over normal levels used for other yeast products and that the fermentation time be increased. At lead that is how I interpreted their promotional materials. I think they want people like you to experiment with their products, including dosages, and report back with your findings. You already seem to be using an increased amount from a baker's percent standpoint, so I guess you should monitor the development of the dough as you would one of your regular doughs, including looking for fermentation bubble activity and dough volume expansion.

Peter

Peter,

I know we are flying half blind on this one.  I agree that Lallemand is letting businesses try out their aromatic yeasts to have them share information, and that then could help them in their recommendations to other people.  I have to ask Ana just how many pizza businesses and bakeries are trying out their new aromatic yeasts and what results they are getting.  The yeast amount was enough for less than a one day cold ferment and I think so far the A18 did the job fine on that.  Now to see if there is an increased taste in the crust.  It stopped storming now so I should be able to proceed as soon as I get my sauce and cheese together and heat up the BS.

Later tonight do you want me to use a X-ACTO knife to see how what the inside of one of the A18 yeast balls looks like?

Norma
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Re: Aromatic Yeast Products from Lallemand
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2014, 06:13:33 PM »
Peter,

Later tonight do you want me to use a X-ACTO knife to see how what the inside of one of the A18 yeast balls looks like?

Norma
Norma,

Sure, that might be interesting.

Peter

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Re: Aromatic Yeast Products from Lallemand
« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2014, 08:12:10 PM »
Norma,

Sure, that might be interesting.

Peter

Peter,

My small X-ACTO knife would not cut the A18 yeast granules.  I thought the A18 yeast might be balls but after looking at them closer there are not balls.  I had to smash the yeast granules.  The photos really don't show anything even though a magnifying glass was used to take the photos.

Norma
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Re: Aromatic Yeast Products from Lallemand
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2014, 08:50:50 PM »
Not too long after I posted the photos of the dough ball I checked the dough ball again.  It had developed a soft bubble on the right side.  After it sat out a little longer the bubble got bigger.   The bubble really was not of any concern and it was pinched shut.  The dough felt like silk after it was floured and while it was being rolled out.  Olive oil was used to grease the pan.  I thought the skin was flat against the bottom of the pan. 

I saw the temperature on the firebricks was higher than I wanted so the flame was turned lower.  The pie skin wanted to bubble in the middle at a couple of places so I don't think the skin was flat against the bottom of the pan.  I removed the pan from the BS.  The sides edges were not brown much at all then, but I used the one spatula to loosen the sides.  The rest of the bake whent mostly okay.  When I went to remove the bar style pie to finish on the stone it wanted to stick on the sides of the pan.  In the final pizza photos it can be seen how I messed the cheese up a couple of places from messing with those sides different times.  Not too long after starting the bake it started to rain again and continued throughout the rest of the bake.  The bar style pie and I both got wet. 

The final bar style pizza was good.  In my opinion there was a better flavor in the crust than other ones I have made, but I wouldn't say there was anything really special about the flavor of the crust.

The new cheese in combination with cheddar was used on this pie.

Norma
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Re: Aromatic Yeast Products from Lallemand
« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2014, 08:54:16 PM »
Norma
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Re: Aromatic Yeast Products from Lallemand
« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2014, 08:56:10 PM »
Norma
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Aromatic Yeast Products from Lallemand
« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2014, 09:18:59 PM »
Norma,

The pizza looks good. How would you rate it as a bar pizza?

It may well be that the Lallemand aromatic yeasts will benefit from a longer fermentation as has been noted. One way to test this thesis would be to make a 4-day cold fermented dough but with an amount of the yeast that is appropriate for the longer fermentation.

Peter

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Re: Aromatic Yeast Products from Lallemand
« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2014, 09:36:55 PM »
Norma,

The pizza looks good. How would you rate it as a bar pizza?

It may well be that the Lallemand aromatic yeasts will benefit from a longer fermentation as has been noted. One way to test this thesis would be to make a 4-day cold fermented dough but with an amount of the yeast that is appropriate for the longer fermentation.

Peter

Peter,

I would rate the bar style pizza as good, but not great.  The cheese blend and sauce tasted good together.  I might have baked a little too long on the bar style, or started the bake a little too high in temperature. Maybe something like a NY style with a higher TF might be a better test with the A18.  I know when you and I were working on trying to get better flavors in that Ultra Thin crust that never happened.

You may be be right that a 4-day cold fermented dough with an amount of yeast that is appropriate for a longer fermentation might be the next thing to try.  Do you think a 2-day dough might be an okay test first?  I am not sure if I have enough of the GM Full Strength at home to do that test though.

Norma
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Re: Aromatic Yeast Products from Lallemand
« Reply #39 on: July 12, 2014, 09:45:39 PM »
Peter,

You may be be right that a 4-day cold fermented dough with an amount of yeast that is appropriate for a longer fermentation might be the next thing to try.  Do you think a 2-day dough might be an okay test first?  I am not sure if I have enough of the GM Full Strength at home to do that test though.

Norma
Norma,

A two-day dough might be a good test to see if that adds much to the results you got with your one-day dough.

Peter