Author Topic: Neapolitan sauce made with fresh tomatoes  (Read 1004 times)

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Offline Trickydick

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Re: Neapolitan sauce made with fresh tomatoes
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2014, 10:27:26 AM »
I went with a VERTIGRO gardening system this year.  So far so good.  Check it out.  They have an organic option for the nutrient.  Only four tomato plants per tower recommended though.  Hate the bugs and disease in FL.  Sevin works well, so far have not needed it.  A friend who does organic concocted a spray using 1 gallon spray jug plus 1/2 cup cheap dish soap, 1/4 cheap hot sauce, and 1/3 cup cheap mouth wash.  It the mouth wash has alcohol, avoid spraying expect very early morning or late in evening.  Works pretty well so far.  Only had one round of hornworms this year.  Haven't seen any more in weeks.  Also growing a calabrese chile.  It's pumpkin shaped though, and so far, isn't very spicy.  Not like the long thin ones.  Would love to bring some seeds back from my cruise, but I think that it is illegal to do so, for both tomatoes and any calabrese chiles I can find. 


Offline Trickydick

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Re: Neapolitan sauce made with fresh tomatoes
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2014, 10:42:49 AM »
Um yeah, found its totally illegal to attempt to bring seeds into US.  Won't be doing that.  Be nice to find a source for these jarred Calabrian chiles so as to grow my own.  Maybe I'll just use the not so hot pumpkin ones and add some cayenne for a bit of heat.

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Neapolitan sauce made with fresh tomatoes
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2014, 12:50:30 PM »
Um yeah, found its totally illegal to attempt to bring seeds into US.  Won't be doing that.  Be nice to find a source for these jarred Calabrian chiles so as to grow my own.  Maybe I'll just use the not so hot pumpkin ones and add some cayenne for a bit of heat.

I think I have the right round ones, but I can't find seeds for the long variety.
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Offline Trickydick

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Re: Neapolitan sauce made with fresh tomatoes
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2014, 12:55:53 PM »
Have you tried to germinate any of the jarred long pod seeds (before you cook them). It's probably a longshot, but some chile seeds are very durable.  I am definitely going to try the almost canning method this summer for  some sauce.

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Neapolitan sauce made with fresh tomatoes
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2014, 12:58:48 PM »
Have you tried to germinate any of the jarred long pod seeds (before you cook them). It's probably a longshot, but some chile seeds are very durable.  I am definitely going to try the almost canning method this summer for  some sauce.

I haven't, but I'm pretty sure that between the salt, vinegar, and cooking they receive when they are canned (or jarred rather) that they are not viable.
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Offline Trickydick

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Re: Neapolitan sauce made with fresh tomatoes
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2014, 01:01:50 PM »
I might give it a shot just for the heck of it.  It's probably a waste of time, but, some chile seeds can survive (and require) passing through a digestive system (birds usually) before they are even able to germinate. 

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Neapolitan sauce made with fresh tomatoes
« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2014, 01:04:59 PM »
I might give it a shot just for the heck of it.  It's probably a waste of time, but, some chile seeds can survive (and require) passing through a digestive system (birds usually) before they are even able to germinate.

I will - what the heck. I have a jar I just opened yesterday.
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Online TXCraig1

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Re: Neapolitan sauce made with fresh tomatoes
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2014, 01:05:35 PM »
some chile seeds can survive (and require) passing through a digestive system (birds usually) before they are even able to germinate.

And why I have tomato plants coming up everywhere in my yard.  :-D
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Online TXCraig1

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Re: Neapolitan sauce made with fresh tomatoes
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2014, 05:07:07 PM »
I tried this again yesterday, and I'm really starting to like it. This time I added a heavy tablespoon of lemon juice into the jar before canning and a couple more basil leaves. It's definitely wetter than Cento Italian or SM's, but it's easy to strain a bit of the water out. Flavorwise, this batch was right up there with most canned tomatoes I've tried. A bit different profile than SM's and probably not something I'd ever make if I didn't have fresh tomatoes, but still really good and very nice on pizza.

Before and after photos below. The empty space is filled with puree made from seeded and hand crushed tomatoes. Each tomato is peeled individually - just 10 seconds in boiling water then put under cold water for a couple seconds. This way only the very outer skin comes off leaving all the velvet intact.
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Online TXCraig1

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Re: Neapolitan sauce made with fresh tomatoes
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2014, 05:24:57 PM »
The flavor works really well on a pepperoni pie. The freshness pairs perfectly with the robust smoky, spicy, Vermont pepperoni. A little fresh oregano and garlic...
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Offline woodmakesitgood

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Re: Neapolitan sauce made with fresh tomatoes
« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2014, 05:42:35 PM »
Sevin is definitely toxic to humans and pets, nasty stuff.

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Neapolitan sauce made with fresh tomatoes
« Reply #31 on: June 30, 2014, 06:15:57 PM »
Sevin is definitely toxic to humans and pets, nasty stuff.

Nasty stuff, huh? Which activist website did you read that on?
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Offline woodmakesitgood

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Re: Neapolitan sauce made with fresh tomatoes
« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2014, 06:25:45 PM »
Nasty stuff, huh? Which activist website did you read that on?


LOL, from those hippies at Wikipedia, and the US EPA.  ::)

"Carbaryl is a cholinesterase inhibitor and is toxic to humans. It is classified as a likely human carcinogen by the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA.)[4] ."

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Neapolitan sauce made with fresh tomatoes
« Reply #33 on: June 30, 2014, 07:19:52 PM »

LOL, from those hippies at Wikipedia, and the US EPA.  ::)

"Carbaryl is a cholinesterase inhibitor and is toxic to humans. It is classified as a likely human carcinogen by the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA.)[4] ."


I was commenting on the "nasty stuff" part. Pretty much everything is toxic to humans in large enough quantities. Take salt for example, the oral LD50 (the median lethal dose) in rats is 3,000mg per kg of body weight. The carbaryl oral LD50 is as high as 850mg/kg (http://www.toxipedia.org/display/toxipedia/Carbaryl). So, in it's pure form, it's only 3.5X as toxic as salt. Now consider something truly nasty, botulism toxin for example. It's LD50 is 0.000001mg - 850 million times more toxic than carbaryl. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16168317

Quoteing wiki is always a risky proposition. The EPA carcinogen reference cited is old and obsolete. Here is what the EPA has to say today: "No information is available on the carcinogenic effects of carbaryl in humans.
No significant increase in tumor incidence was found among exposed animals in several studies. EPA has not classified carbaryl for carcinogenicity."
http://www.epa.gov/ttn/atw/hlthef/carbaryl.html

If you insist on quoting wiki, you should also quote the stuff that doesn't agree with you, particularly when it directly contradicts your claim: "The development of the carbamate insecticides has been called a major breakthrough in pesticides. The carbamates do not have the persistence of chlorinated pesticides. Although toxic to insects, carbaryl is detoxified and eliminated rapidly in vertebrates. It is neither concentrated in fat nor secreted in milk, so is favored for food crops, at least in the US.[1] It is the active ingredient in Carylderm shampoo used to combat head lice until infestation is eliminated."
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Offline woodmakesitgood

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Re: Neapolitan sauce made with fresh tomatoes
« Reply #34 on: June 30, 2014, 09:18:36 PM »
http://www.epa.gov/ttn/atw/hlthef/carbaryl.html

Your link above is to a document entitled
"Carbaryl 63-25-2, Hazard Summary-Created in April 1992; Revised in January 2000"

Wikipedia links to "Interim Reregistration Eligibility Decision for Carbaryl, U.S. EPA, June 2003."
http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/carbaryl_ired.pdf

From the IRED, "Carbaryl is classified as a likely human carcinogen based on vascular tumors in mice. "

and

For more detail on the toxicity and carcinogenicity of carbaryl beyond what is found in
the human health risk assessment for carbaryl, see the Toxicology Chapter for
Carbaryl, dated May 24, 2002
, and the Hazard Identification Assessment Review Committee
(HIARC) Report for Carbaryl dated May 9, 2002. To examine how these toxicity endpoints
relate to dietary risk, see the Revised Dietary Risk Assessment for Carbaryl, dated March 18,
2003"

Also, from your link, its been shown to be unsafe for dogs (below).
Anyway, Sevin sounds nasty enough to not spray directly onto fruit.


"Reproductive/Developmental Effects:
Two studies produced teratogenic effects in dogs fed carbaryl, but dogs were judged inappropriate for human health risk assessment because of differences in metabolism. 
Other studies demonstrating teratogenic effects also caused maternal toxicity. (2,6)"
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 09:48:30 PM by woodmakesitgood »

Online scott123

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Re: Neapolitan sauce made with fresh tomatoes
« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2014, 09:48:54 PM »
From the IRED, "Carbaryl is classified as a likely human carcinogen based on vascular tumors in mice. "

Cherry picking the scariest phrases from the government report serves no one.  Here's the entire paragraph:

Quote
Carbaryl is classified as a likely human carcinogen based on vascular tumors in mice.  However, non-cancer risks are seen as the primary risk driver for almost all use scenarios.

As you can see, in the manner in which carbaryl is typically used, carbaryl does not carry carcinogenic concerns.

If you read the entire document you'll clearly see that the EPA is basically saying that, as long as you don't take a bath in it, you'll be fine.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 11:37:23 PM by scott123 »

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Neapolitan sauce made with fresh tomatoes
« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2014, 10:43:34 PM »
Your link above is to a document entitled
"Carbaryl 63-25-2, Hazard Summary-Created in April 1992; Revised in January 2000"

Wikipedia links to "Interim Reregistration Eligibility Decision for Carbaryl, U.S. EPA, June 2003."
http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/carbaryl_ired.pdf



My mistake on the dates. Notwithstanding, if you continue reading further down the doc, risk info starts at P86, like Scott pointed out, unless you take to bathing in it, it's just not that nasty.

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Offline woodmakesitgood

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Re: Neapolitan sauce made with fresh tomatoes
« Reply #37 on: July 01, 2014, 08:28:57 PM »
If you read the entire document you'll clearly see that the EPA is basically saying that, as long as you don't take a bath in it, you'll be fine.


I doubt that's what the EPA would say...

Anyway, folks can read the document for themselves and draw their own conclusions.

YMMV

Offline flyboy4ual

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Re: Neapolitan sauce made with fresh tomatoes
« Reply #38 on: July 03, 2014, 01:13:59 PM »
Craig,

Just curious, why when making fresh sauce do you boil it in the jar?  I have a ton of San Marzano's growing in my garden and want to use them for sauce.  Thanks,

Scott D.

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Re: Neapolitan sauce made with fresh tomatoes
« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2014, 01:17:07 PM »
Craig,

Just curious, why when making fresh sauce do you boil it in the jar?  I have a ton of San Marzano's growing in my garden and want to use them for sauce.  Thanks,

Scott D.

I've never liked sauce made with cooked fresh tomatoes - cooked in an open pot. I wanted to simulate the cooking process that canned SMs go through. Maybe it's gentler - no loss of moisture - no exposure to high temps. I don't know, but it makes a big difference in the taste.
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