Author Topic: Has anyone used this 22 inch pizza oven  (Read 2459 times)

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Offline norcoscia

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Has anyone used this 22 inch pizza oven
« on: July 05, 2014, 02:08:22 PM »
I came across this today - found it for under 800 bucks - looks like it is rated for temps over 650 degrees but I don't know how you would balance  / adjust the top/bottom heat.

Nice size - I would love to have something to make 18 inch NY pies at home w/o spending 5K


scott123

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Re: Has anyone used this 22 inch pizza oven
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2014, 02:46:49 PM »
Unless you spend thousands of dollars, countertop ovens are woefully underpowered for making pizza.  This is a toaster oven with a stone.

Compare the wattage on this to a typical home oven:

http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/JB250DFCC.html
http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-5-3-cu-ft-Electric-Range-with-Self-Cleaning-Oven-in-Bisque-JB250DFCC/204370952

As you can see, the home oven is more than twice the wattage for half the price.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 03:31:28 PM by scott123 »

Offline Bobino414

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Re: Has anyone used this 22 inch pizza oven
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2014, 06:05:42 PM »
Unless you spend thousands of dollars, countertop ovens are woefully underpowered for making pizza.  This is a toaster oven with a stone.

Compare the wattage on this to a typical home oven:


Scott, Scott, Scott

This oven is a tweak away from running circles around a home oven. Wattage shmattage with a little courage or foolishness, "adjust" the thermostat. heat the oven to about 75 degrees above the ideal bake temp and turn off.  Quickly stretch dough and dress(you have about 4 minutes depending on insulation), turn on the oven, toss in the pie and let the perfectly heated stone, broiler element, and 3.25 inch clearance do their thing.  3.5 minutes later prepare to feast!

Bob


scott123

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Re: Has anyone used this 22 inch pizza oven
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2014, 06:18:10 PM »
 ;D

Bob, respectfully, wattage is king. It dictates warm up time, recovery time, broiler intensity and, depending on the insulation, if an oven can even hit the peak thermostat temp. More wattage is always better.

Even if you could play around with this oven and get two great 3.5 minute bakes, how long will it take to recover to bake pies 3 and 4?  5 and 6?  No matter how long it takes, a home oven with twice the wattage will recover faster. For that reason alone, a 550 deg. electric home oven (with 1/2" steel) runs circles around this.

Offline Bobino414

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Re: Has anyone used this 22 inch pizza oven
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2014, 06:22:14 PM »

Scott

Respectfully, the end product is key!!!!

Bob

scott123

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Re: Has anyone used this 22 inch pizza oven
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2014, 06:34:03 PM »
Bob, I'm not disagreeing :)  I'm not saying this oven can't make a great pizza, just that a home oven can do it far better and far more frequently.

When you really start crunching the numbers, this oven looks even worse.  It's splitting 2850 watts between two chambers, instead of one for a home oven. That's 950 watts per element vs. 3400+ watts per element in the oven I linked to. That's more than 3 times stronger.

One or two great pies, maybe- okay, probably.  But, more than two pies in a sitting- I hope the OP has plenty of time to spare. A proper home oven avoids this recovery question completely.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 06:41:48 PM by scott123 »

Online woodmakesitgood

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Re: Has anyone used this 22 inch pizza oven
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2014, 10:34:21 PM »
Does it help that this oven has only 9 1/4" total height for both cooking chambers?
It seems like less cubic feet to heat compared to a home oven.

scott123

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Re: Has anyone used this 22 inch pizza oven
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2014, 10:55:48 PM »
Does it help that this oven has only 9 1/4" total height for both cooking chambers?  It seems like less cubic feet to heat compared to a home oven.

Vertical space is relatively inconsequential when comparing ovens.  As long as it's insulated well, as most home ovens are, whatever energy coming out of the bottom element will eventually go up, be it convective, conductive or radiant.

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Has anyone used this 22 inch pizza oven
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2014, 11:02:23 PM »
In my opinion the case against an oven like this is simple.  The temperature of the top stone needs to be higher then the temperature of the bottom stone for an oven to achieve a balanced bake with any of the fast baked styles.  With a multi level oven like this how is that achieved?  The upper portion of the oven would have to be at a different and significantly higher temperature then the lower portion for this to be worth a darn for fast baked styles of pizza.
-Jeff

scott123

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Re: Has anyone used this 22 inch pizza oven
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2014, 11:30:57 PM »
Jeff, this oven has 3 burners: 1 under the ceiling, 1 under the top stone and 1 under the bottom stone.  The thermostat controls all of them. You can pre-heat at least one stone to a hot enough temp for a fast bake, and, then prior to baking, crank the heat to high so the 'broiler' burners kick on and bake the top of the pie.

Whether or not you can can get both stones to the right temp at the same time for two pizzas, with one controller, remains to be seen, but, like Bob said, you can get at least one 4ish minute pie from this- assuming the insulation is decent.

Now, I have seen an oven like this rewired to add an extra controller for the top (Barry? Bob?), but that kind of electrical work isn't for everyone.

These are the kinds of ovens, that, if you're handy, you pick up for less than $75 at a garage sale or ebay.


Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Has anyone used this 22 inch pizza oven
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2014, 11:33:00 PM »
My GF the hairdresser has blow dryers that run hotter than this contraption.  Jus say`in. 
And they cost about 80 bucks I think.

cb
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Offline Bobino414

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Re: Has anyone used this 22 inch pizza oven
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2014, 12:04:44 AM »
Does it help that this oven has only 9 1/4" total height for both cooking chambers?
It seems like less cubic feet to heat compared to a home oven.

Agree

In my opinion the case against an oven like this is simple.  The temperature of the top stone needs to be higher then the temperature of the bottom stone for an oven to achieve a balanced bake with any of the fast baked styles.  With a multi level oven like this how is that achieved?  The upper portion of the oven would have to be at a different and significantly higher temperature then the lower portion for this to be worth a darn for fast baked styles of pizza.

Jeff-there is no top stone; the top of the pie is baked by the broiler element.


Now, I have seen an oven like this rewired to add an extra controller for the top (Barry? Bob?), but that kind of electrical work isn't for everyone.

Scott-Last year TAMPA Dave wired the oven with switches to control the elements individually.  Although I thought this was a great idea and would make things easier it has since been rewired to one switch although the thermostat is still tweaked.

CB-I would love to see a photo of the pizza made by your GF's blow dryer.

Bob

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Has anyone used this 22 inch pizza oven
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2014, 12:18:20 AM »


CB-I would love to see a photo of the pizza made by your GF's blow dryer.

Bob
Back in the day my sister could turn out a pretty mean jiffy mix pizza in her Easy Bake Oven...maybe I can scare up a pic or 2 of that.....similar powered machines.    :-D

cb
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Offline norcoscia

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How about this one
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2014, 07:41:17 AM »
OK, not enough, oom pa pa - I get it, but wondering if anyone has actually used one - I also found this one - 17 inch deck -- I really want something 20 in or a little more.

What does everyone think is the best standalone pizza oven for home use with at least a 20 inch deck - what has anyone used - the one below is almost 2K and has dual controls but it is a bit shallow and could not be used for an 18 inch pie.

http://www.foodservicewarehouse.com/equipex/pz-4302d/p1453842.aspx?utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=Equipex-PZ-4302D&utm_campaign=Countertop-Pizza-Ovens&utm_source=googlepla&source=googleps&gclid=CPiqnOzKsL8CFUZbfgod6jAA5w

Offline barryvabeach

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Re: Has anyone used this 22 inch pizza oven
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2014, 09:04:09 AM »
I have bought, and sold, a few Bakers Pride countertops, and a Chinese countertop that I completely rewired.  From my personal experience, it is very difficult to find a countertop electric oven that does not have substantial limitations in the US. Most house wiring is 120 - so many manufacturers put out ovens that run at 120 - which has an upper limit of 1,800 watts per outlet. As Bob and Scott point out, that is basically a hairdryer,  and would be enough heat for an 8 or 10 inch wide pie, but as you increase the size, you need much more heat.  While I disagree with Scott as to home ovens,  I have had miserable results with my two home ovens, he is right that a key measure is watts per square inch.  I had an earlier version of a BP 18,  I put in two 1 inch stones, and could get two pies out of it that were better, IMHO, than my home oven.  However,  preheat times were around 2 hours,  not acceptable I think for most.   Once you go to 240 volts,  there are very few US models available, though I have not tried those, and went with a Chinese maker that was 240 volts with a single deck, and it was a disappointment, until I rewired it to get 4.6 watts per square inch of deck.
It had separate thermostats for top and bottom, but that doesn't really work if you want to do multiple pies unless you constantly fiddle with them -  if you have the bottom stone around 600, you want the top element to be on during a  2 or 3 minute bake - so you have to turn the top therm down a few minutes before you launch, then turn it up right before you launch.
I have read some good reports concerning the Sage, and a few Italian brands, but IIRC, they are usually single deck models.  As you go to double deck, you power requirements increase drastically. 
 

Offline norcoscia

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Re: Has anyone used this 22 inch pizza oven
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2014, 09:28:15 AM »
Thanks barryvabeach, good info, BTW I would be OK with a single deck - I just looked at the SAGE, 299.00 on e-bay - hard to believe. No 20 inch capability but for 299 maybe I can live with a 16-17 inch pie - the 220 is a challenge unless I did it near my power box in the garage.

But, my house is for sale so no telling where I will end up and what the power outlet situation will be.

Hard to believe no good options exist for making an 18 inch pie at home but I guess the lack of 220 in homes keeps manufactures from building ovens since the market share would be pretty small.

What Italian brands did you think are worth considering?

Online mitchjg

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Re: Has anyone used this 22 inch pizza oven
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2014, 10:03:21 AM »
My GF the hairdresser has blow dryers that run hotter than this contraption.  Jus say`in. 
And they cost about 80 bucks I think.

cb

Chicago Bob may be on to something here:

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Has anyone used this 22 inch pizza oven
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2014, 11:47:32 AM »
Jeff, this oven has 3 burners: 1 under the ceiling, 1 under the top stone and 1 under the bottom stone.  The thermostat controls all of them. You can pre-heat at least one stone to a hot enough temp for a fast bake, and, then prior to baking, crank the heat to high so the 'broiler' burners kick on and bake the top of the pie.

Whether or not you can can get both stones to the right temp at the same time for two pizzas, with one controller, remains to be seen, but, like Bob said, you can get at least one 4ish minute pie from this- assuming the insulation is decent.

Now, I have seen an oven like this rewired to add an extra controller for the top (Barry? Bob?), but that kind of electrical work isn't for everyone.

These are the kinds of ovens, that, if you're handy, you pick up for less than $75 at a garage sale or ebay.

The third burner still leaves the same issue.  That stone in the middle is the bottom stone for the top chamber and the top stone for the bottom chamber.  IT can't be two temperatures at once.  I understand with the element there it is the element cooking the top of the bottom chamber and not the stone, but that element will also heat the stone above it.  I really think if you modified this thing to put out more heat the middle stone would end up significantly hotter then the bottom stone to achieve a balanced bake in the bottom oven, which then means the top broiler element needs to be even more powerful and the top oven is still hotter then the bottom oven.
-Jeff

scott123

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Re: Has anyone used this 22 inch pizza oven
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2014, 01:13:35 PM »
The third burner still leaves the same issue.

The wattage is, imo, the achilles heel for this oven, but the dual chamber aspect is still a major flaw- and an especially bad idea. Even if the wattage were doubled, I'd still advise against buying an oven with 2 chambers/3 elements and a single controller.

At least, for fast baked pizza.  The VIA 313 brothers seem to be successfully using the Baker's Pride version of this oven for their mobile Detroit business.

Offline barryvabeach

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Re: Has anyone used this 22 inch pizza oven
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2014, 02:18:22 PM »
norcoscia,  I don't see a Sage pizza oven on ebay now, only the bread oven.  The electric pizza oven are PD13C, and PD14C, I think the one on ebay is a bread oven, though not sure  -  the bottom of this page shows dimensions and wattage http://en.cn-sage.com/products_detail/&productId=58.html      I will have to check on overseas ovens, there have been a few posts here lately, can't seem to find them today.  As to 240, if you have an electric dryer, and don't mind unplugging it to make pizza, that might be an option, since dryers run on 240.