Author Topic: I took a picture of my dough today  (Read 761 times)

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Offline psychoactive

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I took a picture of my dough today
« on: July 17, 2014, 01:21:58 AM »
Hello,

This seems like a great place full of helpful people! I hope one day I can learn enough to help others.

I have been making pizza for a few years but my dough is never, never chewy and full of air like pizza shops. In truth, I have never achieved the "window pane" no matter how much I kneaded, mixed, etc. and I am not sure what I am doing wrong.

Today, I tried the recipe on this website http://www.pizzamaking.com/newyorkstyle.php

My first thought was the dough was super hard, so hard it was impossible to mix or knead. I have a kitchenaid with a dough hook. So I added another ounce of water and it softened up a little, but the dough was still like a ball rolling around the mixing bowl and not really getting kneaded.

I finally pulled it out and put it in the fridge, but I took a photo of the dough first. It tears easily, it does not stretch and I cannot see a window pane.

I am using generic "bread flour" and I added a tablespoon of wheat gluten. Besides that I followed the linked recipe exactly.

I hope you guys have some tips for me, I will appreciate them!


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: I took a picture of my dough today
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2014, 07:17:35 AM »
psychoactive,

Did you use weights or volume measurements?

Also, there are better recipes on the forum for the NY style, and you don't need to use the windowpane test since you don't need to take the dough to full gluten development. You want to slightly underknead the dough and let the gluten develop biochemically during fermentation of the dough.

Peter

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: I took a picture of my dough today
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2014, 09:26:48 AM »
I want to add a little to what Peter said: Forget you ever heard of windowpaning. Windowpaning is not useful in pizzamaking. (That's strictly me talking; not Peter or Tom or anyone else, although I'm sure many other members feel the same.)

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: I took a picture of my dough today
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2014, 10:14:50 AM »
If the dough has a finished temperature in the 80F range, and if you ball it and put it into the fridge for at least 24-hours you would see a lot more gluten development due to biochemical gluten development. Some level of mechanical gluten development has a benefit in at the pizzeria level as it helps the dough balls to retain their shape in the large dough boxes that are commonly used, it also allows the dough to be processed into dough balls faster and easier, all of which really are not needed in home pizza production, additionally, it is also much more difficult to mix a dough to the level of gluten development using the mixers we normally have available to us at home, this includes most mixers up to about 12-quart bowl capacity. We are getting ready to gear up for our annual pizza seminar at AIB and one of the things that we always show our students is how we cannot stretch the dough to form a window after mixing, but on the following day after the dough has been balled and cold fermented for about 24-hours we can get 3 to 4 people together and stretch those same dough balls out to nearly 36-inches in diameter. The flour that we use in making all of our dough is just what is termed as a strong bread flour having 12.2 to 12.6% protein content.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline dulcevita

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Re: I took a picture of my dough today
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2014, 10:26:45 AM »
If you want "puffy pizza" I'm guessing your thinking of Neapolitan style. Which takes high heat and "00" flour among other things. But if you want a tasty pizza just do what tastes good. I've posted a recipe on here that I was told nobody would use and after a few days in the fridge someone swore it was my best dough ever.

Offline psychoactive

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Re: I took a picture of my dough today
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2014, 12:34:52 PM »
Wow thanks everyone! I feel much better about that. I used the volume measurements for this batch, I need to get a scale before I can do weight.

Reading around this forum for a few days made me realize something. I had never been letting my dough rise enough. I would let it rise for one hour, punch it down, let it rise one more hour, and then cook it.

I am going to let the dough I made last night sit in my fridge until Friday night and we will see how it comes out.  :pizza: :pizza: :pizza:

I will take some photos. I am also going to try new stretching techniques, I feel like I have learned a lot in the last few days, I wish I found this place a long time ago!

Here is a photo of the last pizza I made. This is the kind of crust I want to NOT make. It was very dense.

Offline Donjo911

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Re: I took a picture of my dough today
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2014, 12:53:35 PM »
This scale is used by many on the forum, including me.


My Weigh KD-8000 "Baker's Math" Scale

Percentage Weighing" proportional measuring makes for precise recipes Also allows bakers to easily make larger or smaller batches of a given recipe


The bakers % function, built into the scale, makes it super easy to measure & follow formulations.  The only thing it does not do well is sub 1 gram measurements like very small amounts of IDY or ADY.   It's also about the least expensive scale with this range of functions at about $40.00

I have done wrong.. but what I did, I thought needed to be done.

Offline psychoactive

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Re: I took a picture of my dough today
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2014, 01:00:15 PM »
Thanks! Look like a nice scale. I already have a very precise (0.0001 gram) scale I can use for little things, but I think the max weight for that is 20 grams or so. BTW I use my precise scale for measuring suppliments like BCAAs, creatine, glutamine, etc., not drugs!  :-D

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: I took a picture of my dough today
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2014, 03:55:52 PM »
You don't weigh your drugs? ???

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: I took a picture of my dough today
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2014, 04:48:00 PM »
If you want "puffy pizza" I'm guessing your thinking of Neapolitan style. Which takes high heat and "00" flour among other things. But if you want a tasty pizza just do what tastes good. I've posted a recipe on here that I was told nobody would use and after a few days in the fridge someone swore it was my best dough ever.
what the... ???
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"


Offline psychoactive

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Re: I took a picture of my dough today
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2014, 05:33:51 PM »
You don't weigh your drugs? ???

Yes but I use a semi-truck weigh station to do so  :P

Offline dulcevita

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Re: I took a picture of my dough today
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2014, 05:46:40 PM »
what the... ???
  I'm being trolled on a pizza web site........... :-D

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: I took a picture of my dough today
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2014, 06:09:41 PM »
  I'm being trolled on a pizza web site........... :-D
...you wish.   >:D
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline psychoactive

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Re: I took a picture of my dough today
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2014, 11:43:02 PM »
Hey buddies,

After work I checked on my dough and it puffed up and filled the whole mixing bowl. I did not think it would rise that much in the fridge. Anyway, I punched it down a little bit to about half the volume it was. Is that what I should do? I think next time I should use less yeast, is that right?

scott123

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Re: I took a picture of my dough today
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2014, 12:12:26 AM »
Yes, next time, use less. You generally never want to punch down pizza dough. You want to make the dough, refrigerate it a set amount of time (every time) and let it always warm up a set time (sticking to that warm up time consistently). By the time it's ready to stretch, the dough should be between 2 and 3 times it's original volume. If it's blown up too much, adjust your yeast downward. If it isn't blown up enough, next batch, use a bit more yeast.

Here is a photo of the last pizza I made. This is the kind of crust I want to NOT make. It was very dense.

Wow, that is dense.

Have you been to Luigi's? 

Offline psychoactive

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Re: I took a picture of my dough today
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2014, 12:35:56 AM »
Ok, next time I will try 1/4 teaspoon. Thank you.

I have not been to Luigi's, I just looked it up... looks like it has pretty good reviews! I will have to check it out one of these days.

I am going to New York in a few weeks, I will be sure to eat lots of pizza out there.

Offline dulcevita

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Re: I took a picture of my dough today
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2014, 02:55:49 PM »
Yes, next time, use less. You generally never want to punch down pizza dough. You want to make the dough, refrigerate it a set amount of time (every time) and let it always warm up a set time (sticking to that warm up time consistently). By the time it's ready to stretch, the dough should be between 2 and 3 times it's original volume. If it's blown up too much, adjust your yeast downward. If it isn't blown up enough, next batch, use a bit more yeast.

Wow, that is dense.

Have you been to Luigi's?


why should you never punch down pizza dough? is it texture thing or just about the amount of yeast as you said?


 

pizzapan