Author Topic: NY selling by slice & Health Code  (Read 633 times)

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Offline JD

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NY selling by slice & Health Code
« on: July 25, 2014, 04:23:25 PM »
In most NY style pizza places, they have a glass counter and sell by the slice. A whole pie is cooked to 80%, and put on display for slice sales, normally at room temperature. Regarding health codes, is there not a requirement for pizza to sit in a holding case above 140* and/or refrigerated if not being consumed immediately?

Some places I've been to have a dozen or more pizza's on display for slices, which means a longer time at room temp. I'd like to understand
how this works, legally.


Josh


Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: NY selling by slice & Health Code
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2014, 04:31:19 PM »
Ya I'm not to sure about this either. Most places that I have seen do it correctly hold the food out of the danger zone and above 135F. Not sure how some places get away with it just being left out.

Offline waltertore

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Re: NY selling by slice & Health Code
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2014, 06:47:22 PM »
We also sell by the slice.  It is about 80% of our business - cook our pies 100% and they sit out up to 2 hours but usually are gone within a 1/2 hour.  I grew up with this in NJ and continue it.  I remember some boardwalk pizzerias in Seaside Heights that kept each style pie out for a day.  They had them for display purposes because their customer base was transitory and often didn't know the various pies they made.  When an order was made they took them from a pan not on display and reheated them.   The Board of Health has been in several times and not said anything about our pies sitting out and I don't want to ask any questions.  We also have an 18 rack, full sheet pan size, warming oven/proofer that also  has humidity control.  I only use that with big orders to keep them warm till they go in the boxes and out the door.   Walter

Offline Donjo911

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Re: NY selling by slice & Health Code
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2014, 06:54:39 PM »
I know it's not NY/NJ - but I remember buying pizza from a place in San Francisco named Golden Boy Pizza.  It's focaccia pizza - but they were sitting out and they had lots of sheets of pizza ready to be wrapped up to go.  One of them had cooked oysters on them :o .  In addition to the usual suspects.  And the would heat them up for you on the deck oven- but they were kept at room temp.  I'm curious to see the answer to this question.  Oh, they had a A grade in the window too.
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: NY selling by slice & Health Code
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2014, 07:07:07 PM »
You can`t pass food handlers certificate test if you don`t know hot food must be kept at 140...roasts are allowed 130 and cold foods must see 41 or lower.
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline waltertore

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Re: NY selling by slice & Health Code
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2014, 07:11:16 PM »
You can`t pass food handlers certificate test if you don`t know hot food must be kept at 140...roasts are allowed 130 and cold foods must see 41 or lower.

true but I think pizza falls in a crack somewhere.  The BOH inspector did ask me what temp the pizzas were out of the oven.  I said I had no idea but they are baked at 560 for 8 minutes or so.  He said nothing after that and went on with his inspection.  We have never  had a warning to date and follow all the safe food handling rules except with the pizza.  Our warming/proof box goes to 180 degrees.  Thezazman, Norma, or Gabagol could give the answer to this question.  Walter

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: NY selling by slice & Health Code
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2014, 07:19:51 PM »
true but I think pizza falls in a crack somewhere.  The BOH inspector did ask me what temp the pizzas were out of the oven.  I said I had no idea but they are baked at 560 for 8 minutes or so.  He said nothing after that and went on with his inspection.  We have never  had a warning to date and follow all the safe food handling rules except with the pizza.  Our warming/proof box goes to 180 degrees.  Thezazman, Norma, or Gabagol could give the answer to this question.  Walter
It`s food, not crack so all the rules apply.  As long as no one reports you ya get away with it.
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Online MartyE

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Re: NY selling by slice & Health Code
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2014, 07:42:54 PM »
In Houston, TX you can hold foods without temperature control for a maximum of 4 hours. If the food is not served within the time window it must be discarded.  Below is an excerpt from the food code:

TIME AS A PUBLIC HEALTH CONTROL
The use of time only, rather than time in conjunction with temperature as a public health control
may be utilized to offer potentially hazardous foods for service. Because there is no significant
bacterial growth or toxin production in such limited time, potentially hazardous foods may be held
out of temperature control for up to four hours. Make sure that all food is properly cooked and/or
cooled before using time as a public health control. Once time is used instead of time and
temperature control, the food cannot be placed under temperature control again for further use.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: NY selling by slice & Health Code
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2014, 07:46:20 PM »
That sounds reasonable.
 My license was in Ill.
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Offline scott123

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Re: NY selling by slice & Health Code
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2014, 08:18:46 PM »
TIME AS A PUBLIC HEALTH CONTROL


This is how pizza is treated in NYC as well.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/downloads/pdf/public/notice-intention-art-81.pdf

From a health code perspective, NY pizza has, from it's very beginning, been made by bakers and viewed more from a perspective of a bakery item (that can be held at room temp) than a restaurant item (that needs to be held at either hot or cold temps). Municipalities would never expect bakeries to hold their breads at either hot or cold temps. Historically, pizza fell under this category- and, on the East coast, for the most part, still does.

From this document here, though

http://www.emd.saccounty.net/Documents/Info/EH/CalCode_FieldGuide.pdf

It looks like California's paranoid overreaching politicians, have, like they did with bromate, stepped in and overregulated pizza by classifying it as a 'Potentially Hazardous Food.'

Up until today, I was always a little quizzical regarding the enclosed glass cases that many Californian NY style pizzerias use for slice pies.  Now I know. They're refrigerating the pies (!!!!!!!!!!!!).  Chalk one up for clueless bureaucrats.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 08:39:06 PM by scott123 »


Offline JD

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Re: NY selling by slice & Health Code
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2014, 08:41:03 PM »
Thanks for the incite guys. I always wondered if it was something that was largely ignored/accepted in NY, or if it was just allowed by law. My local farmers market classifies pizza as a highly perishable item and requires refrigeration, which I'd assume would be the same for any pizza place in MS too. A slice joint would make a killing at my location (college town).

I don't know about oyster pizza though...
Josh

Offline Donjo911

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Re: NY selling by slice & Health Code
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2014, 08:46:44 PM »
It looks like California's paranoid overreaching politicians, have, like they did with bromate, stepped in and overregulated pizza by classifying it as a 'Potentially Hazardous Food.'  Chalk one up for clueless bureaucrats.


Scott you are not wrong about my old stomping grounds - CA.   However, lets not forget about Bloomberg and Soda-gate! Talk about over-reaching :-D


Happy Weekend - Cheers, Don
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Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: NY selling by slice & Health Code
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2014, 09:47:00 PM »
  However, lets not forget about Bloomberg and Soda-gate! Talk about over-reaching :-D


Over reaching? How is that over reaching? If there is one choice I can't make in life on my own it's the size of drink I should buy. Thanks Bloomberg.

Offline scott123

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Re: NY selling by slice & Health Code
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2014, 04:47:01 AM »
However, lets not forget about Bloomberg and Soda-gate! Talk about over-reaching :-D

Craig would probably disagree, but I think there's a huge difference between

1. de facto outlawing an ingredient that makes better pizza
2. forcing pizzerias to compromise their product by making them refrigerate it

and

preventing the population from purchasing a 32 oz. soda- but still allowing them to purchase two 16 oz. sodas. It's all over reaching and short sighted, but there's a pretty stark difference in the egregiousness of the over reach.

Offline scott123

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Re: NY selling by slice & Health Code
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2014, 05:17:48 AM »
I always wondered if it was something that was largely ignored/accepted in NY, or if it was just allowed by law. My local farmers market classifies pizza as a highly perishable item and requires refrigeration, which I'd assume would be the same for any pizza place in MS too.


From the preliminary research that I've done, I'm reasonably certain that farmer's markets have different regulations than brick and mortar pizzerias.

I would be pretty surprised if many Mississippi municipalities forced brick & mortar pizzerias to refrigerate slice pies.

I did a little digging, and while I didn't find a smoking gun, per say, this place in Hattiesburg

http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/04/bd/30/b2/inside-view-of-brick.jpg

has the typical kind of shelving where slice pies are stored at room temp.

Offline JD

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Re: NY selling by slice & Health Code
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2014, 09:01:12 AM »
Makes sense Scott. Hattiesburg is a 3hr drive from me so it won't be on my visit list anytime soon, but I see what you're talking about. I'll have a chat with the guy I buy ingredients from, I really think they'd do more business if they sold by the slice instead of entire pie's only.

Josh

Offline norma427

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Re: NY selling by slice & Health Code
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2014, 09:37:30 AM »
Josh,

I think your question is a little complicated to answer for all states, and even Pa.  At market when the food inspector comes to inspect my stand she checks the holding temperature in my heated, revolving pizza case.  It usually stays at about 145 degrees F, whether the door is open a lot or not.  I know I can't just let a pizza sit out for a long time, but know if I have samples sitting out they have to be covered.  I do make a baked pizza ahead to then put into the heated case if slices sell fast.  The bakery that is located in the other building at market have half baked pizzas sitting out all day.  They are only wrapped in plastic wrap.  The bakery makes about 12 half baked pizza at their bakery shop and then brings them to market

On the other side of the coin I did set-up outside at market with the Blackstone one time.  Those pizzas were not held in a heated case, and I just covered them up.  I am not even sure if I violated the food code in our state.

Norma
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: NY selling by slice & Health Code
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2014, 10:38:31 AM »
Craig would probably disagree, but I think there's a huge difference between

1. de facto outlawing an ingredient that makes better pizza
2. forcing pizzerias to compromise their product by making them refrigerate it

and

preventing the population from purchasing a 32 oz. soda- but still allowing them to purchase two 16 oz. sodas. It's all over reaching and short sighted, but there's a pretty stark difference in the egregiousness of the over reach.

Why do you think I would disagree with that?
Pizza is not bread.

Offline JD

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Re: NY selling by slice & Health Code
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2014, 03:24:27 PM »
Thank you Norma. You had some discussions with Tom L. about using a warming rack, and that is when I first started questioning why it was not necessary in NY. It makes more sense now.

Josh

Offline scott123

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Re: NY selling by slice & Health Code
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2014, 01:10:57 AM »
Why do you think I would disagree with that?

My memory is pretty hazy, but I seem to recall, from the deleted soda ban thread, that you were giving the soda ban parity with bromate- but mentioning your name was more of an ill attempt at humor than a statement of fact.


 

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