Author Topic: Some Pizza making assumptions...?  (Read 1378 times)

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Offline JD

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Re: Some Pizza making assumptions...?
« Reply #40 on: July 31, 2014, 03:05:42 PM »
The The New Artistan Bread in Five Minutes a Day method uses bulk fermentation, cold fermentation, and has you ball your dough just before you temper it and it's worked well for me. High hydration dough is surprisingly forgiving.

The point I was trying to make is never attempt to ball a dough that has been cold fermented overnight. A bulk before tempering is fine, you're right.
Josh


Online dsissitka

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Re: Some Pizza making assumptions...?
« Reply #41 on: July 31, 2014, 03:28:12 PM »
The point I was trying to make is never attempt to ball a dough that has been cold fermented overnight.

That's what it does. Bulk ferment, then cold ferment, then ball, then temper. No tempering between cold fermenting and balling.

Offline JD

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Re: Some Pizza making assumptions...?
« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2014, 03:43:51 PM »
That's what it does. Bulk ferment, then cold ferment, then ball, then temper. No tempering between cold fermenting and balling.

Okay then I don't agree  :)

I'm not sure what you consider high hydration, but for typical pizza hydrations, balling after a cold ferment is not useful and counter productive.

Bread and pizza are not treated the same. 
Josh

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Some Pizza making assumptions...?
« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2014, 04:43:49 PM »
I have never had luck bulk cold fermenting then balling.  I have only tried it a couple of times when I ran out of time to ball before sleepy time.

Online dsissitka

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Re: Some Pizza making assumptions...?
« Reply #44 on: July 31, 2014, 05:59:16 PM »
I think the high hydration (the book's master recipe is 75%, its pizza recipe is 68%) is what makes it possible.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Some Pizza making assumptions...?
« Reply #45 on: July 31, 2014, 06:12:13 PM »
I think the high hydration (the book's master recipe is 75%, its pizza recipe is 68%) is what makes it possible.

So doing it wrong makes it possible to do it wrong? Makes sense.

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Some Pizza making assumptions...?
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2014, 08:30:17 PM »
There is no right or wrong, Ryan, there is what works.  If it works for him, then it is "right" for him.  My doughs are in that hydration range and when I retard in bulk, the dough is not what I want.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Some Pizza making assumptions...?
« Reply #47 on: July 31, 2014, 08:37:47 PM »
Okay then I don't agree  :)

I'm not sure what you consider high hydration, but for typical pizza hydrations, balling after a cold ferment is not useful and counter productive.

Bread and pizza are not treated the same.
Obviously, you do not know who member John `Fazzari` is.  :)
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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Some Pizza making assumptions...?
« Reply #48 on: July 31, 2014, 11:02:07 PM »
There is no right or wrong, Ryan, there is what works.

There is no right, but there are lots of wrongs and there are lots of people who trick themselves into believing they've done something right when they haven't (or when they've done it really wrong). I see this quality quite a bit in my own posting history; particularly in the Tommy's thread. Which is a big reason why I've pretty much nailed cloning Tommy's in about 50 different ways (which I'll probably think is BS in a year or two). We all do some things wrong every time we make pizza. I even do it on purpose sometimes, because that helps me learn.

I'm not trying to be the right/wrong police, but anything with 75% hydration is either wrong or damn close to wrong. We're talking about pizza, not bread. They are very different things, and I've yet to see any baker demonstrate any real knowledge or mastery of pizza; just bakers who seem to think they know everything about pizza simply because their craft resembles this craft on the surface.

I didn't mean for either my previous post or this post to be flame bait. I just say what I really mean most of the time because none of us has time for BS (and some of us are gonna run out of time a lot sooner than we're supposed to). I'll freely acknowledge, though, that what I said in both posts is very open to being countered. Also, I'm not even sure what style we're talking about here. I assumed NY style. If so, I stand by what I said, and I'll keep standing by what I said. If we're not talking about NY style, maybe I was wrong (although I'd be very hesitant to change my mind). I'm OK with being wrong, but I'm not OK with staying wrong.

If anything I've said in this post came out sounding either hostile or arrogant, it's either because I communicated poorly or because my words were misinterpreted.

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Some Pizza making assumptions...?
« Reply #49 on: July 31, 2014, 11:11:27 PM »
75% is pretty high, but it is in the range of what my doughs fall in.  This is one of the reasons I use the dough straight from the fridge; at room temp it is almost batter, the cold allows me to form and top it.

Basically, everything I do is "wrong":  I don't measure worth a damn and don't weigh anything (and when I do it is not to make the dough it is simply to give example), I barely mix it by hand, sometimes use dough that is a week or two old, use all kinds of bizarre flour, cook on screens in the WFO, hell everything I DO is wrong.  But I like my pizza, as do most who try it and that is all I care about.


Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Some Pizza making assumptions...?
« Reply #50 on: July 31, 2014, 11:17:38 PM »
Here's something I do wrong: I serve guests NY style pizzas with more than just sauce and cheese. Everyone wants pepperoni, and I have incredible pepperoni (Ezzo GiAntonio 38 mm), but my cheese pizzas are so much better than my pepperoni pizzas. And I've converted a couple people, or made them see the light, accidentally. But in central Ohio most people get pizza with lots of toppings (because everything under the toppings tends to be crap). Sigh.

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Some Pizza making assumptions...?
« Reply #51 on: July 31, 2014, 11:25:41 PM »
Here is the only assumption that matters:  If you end up with a pile of bones, you need to work on your dough.