Author Topic: Blodgett vs Marsal vs Montague oven?  (Read 626 times)

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Offline docjedi

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Blodgett vs Marsal vs Montague oven?
« on: July 31, 2014, 06:25:05 PM »
I need to figure out which oven I should invest in for ny style pizza. Right now we have run a blodgett oven for 40 years and may need to change.


Offline waltertore

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Re: Blodgett vs Marsal vs Montague oven?
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2014, 06:35:19 PM »
what blodgetts are you using?  We use blodgett 1000's from the 1970's with the original stones and they far outperform the new blodgetts and bakers pride ovens.  They also have all parts still readily available but nothing really goes wrong with them other than the thermocoupler needing replacement. I haven't tried the marsal or montague ovens.  Walter

Offline docjedi

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Re: Blodgett vs Marsal vs Montague oven?
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2014, 07:47:27 PM »
I believe it's the 1000s as well. I just feel that the oven isn't optimal. a lot of out veggies throw off too much water and also the bottom doesn't cook evenly.

Offline waltertore

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Re: Blodgett vs Marsal vs Montague oven?
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2014, 08:07:22 PM »
They are 1000's.  You can verify by opening the clean out/pilot light door and on the right side there should be a metal tag with the info.  I wonder what stones you have?  If you have used the same stones for 40 years they must be originals.  the originals contain asbecstos and give incredible even browning top and bottom and need no rotations of pies while they cook.  I first worked with these as a teen in the 70's and they are still highly valued in the NYC area where I grew up. Are the deflectors in good shape?  Are the all the holes on the burners working and burning a nice blue?  Other than these issues the ovens should do great.  We cook our artisan breads/bagels in them as well at 425-450 degrees.   I see your temp looks to be at 525?  Is the oven calibrated right?  If it is running much over 550 it will cause the bottoms to burn more than the top.  We cook at approx 560 degrees and the top bottom browning is perfect.  What kind of pies do you make?   Where are you located?  If you are going to get rid of them I would be interested talking to you about them.  The original stones iterlock where they meet which can be seen on the bottom side of the stones.  See the photos below of how nice these ovens cook.   Walter
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 08:17:49 PM by waltertore »

Offline docjedi

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Re: Blodgett vs Marsal vs Montague oven?
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2014, 08:20:11 PM »
Temp is around 525 right now. Sometimes we up 550. One stone actually cracked on the bottom right. Here is what the inside looks like and the pie I just made. The issue comes with our veggies, too much water making the pie very wet. I am outside boston.

Offline docjedi

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Re: Blodgett vs Marsal vs Montague oven?
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2014, 08:22:09 PM »
There burners look fine but the ovens themselves haven't had any work done in so long. I'm just wondering if any of the above ovens would be an improvement? Your pie and bagels and bread look amazing.

Offline docjedi

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Re: Blodgett vs Marsal vs Montague oven?
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2014, 08:26:12 PM »
the flame

Offline docjedi

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Re: Blodgett vs Marsal vs Montague oven?
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2014, 08:27:47 PM »
the broken stone

Offline waltertore

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Re: Blodgett vs Marsal vs Montague oven?
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2014, 08:53:43 PM »
Temp is around 525 right now. Sometimes we up 550. One stone actually cracked on the bottom right. Here is what the inside looks like and the pie I just made. The issue comes with our veggies, too much water making the pie very wet. I am outside boston.

Thanks for the compliment.  Your pie look good too! The topside looks evenly done to me.   I showed the photos so you could see how good these ovens are.  The top stones look like they might be original but the bottom stones don't look original to me but the photos are a bit blury and hard to say for sure on either oven.  The key is the stones interlock where they meet via each stone being notched.  If that isn't there they are newer stones.  If you replaced them since you got the ovens they probably are the newer ones that are no where near as good as the originals.  I run a unique set up (you can see at the link below) and all we offer is cheese/pep and when school starts up in August will be making our own sausage from my grandfathers recipe that he brought over from Italy with him.   I put veggies for my personal use (mushrooms/peppers) and have no issues with water.  If you go too heavy with fresh veggies the water issue is an issue.  I would get a tech in to look at the ovens.  They look in good shape and I have worked with the Bakers Pride Y series and the one that looks like a WFO with stones on the roof and both stunk compared to the blodgett 1000.  I also use the Blodgett 1048 and the results were just as bad as the BP ovens.  Those other ovens I have read about some but can't offer any solid feedback on them.  There is a member here-gabaghol - who runs like 8 or so blodgett 1000's in his shop in Conn.  He might be interested in them if you decide to new ovens.  Walter
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 08:59:04 PM by waltertore »

Offline docjedi

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Re: Blodgett vs Marsal vs Montague oven?
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2014, 09:57:09 PM »
thank you. quite honest my father ran this place not sure of he swapped them out - he's been here for 30 plus years and bought the business from someone. I always thought the were original. anyone have any input on theses ovens?


Online shuboyje

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Re: Blodgett vs Marsal vs Montague oven?
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2014, 10:05:12 PM »
Walter,

How can you tell they are 1000's?  To the untrained eye the Blodgetts of this era all look so similar.  Is there something that is a dead give away between the 1000's and the over weaker ovens from the exterior?
-Jeff

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Blodgett vs Marsal vs Montague oven?
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2014, 10:12:43 PM »
I have seen the old style stone sets on ebay quite often.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 01:13:49 PM by Chicago Bob »
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scott123

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Re: Blodgett vs Marsal vs Montague oven?
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2014, 02:48:10 AM »
Doc, the Marsal MB 60 will give you a more even bake than you have now.  And it will give you a faster, more balanced bake at higher temperatures, which some people prefer.

If all you're looking for is more even browning to the bottom of your pies, and less water from the veggies, then an $8K Marsal is probably overkill.

First, it sounds like you need to investigate the stones further and look for the notch that Walter is describing. If you have the original stones, great, if not, you might want to start looking for a set of original stones for sale.  If finding original stones proves fruitless, you might want to look into either fibrament stones or whitacre greer firebricks- both offer low conductivity and even heating.

I would also continue to investigate the condition of the burner.  It's hard to tell from the photo, but it looks like some flames are burning brighter than others.

Second, if you don't have an IR thermometer, get one

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00837ZGRY/?tag=pizzamaking-20

and use it to measure different areas of the floor.  That will go a long way in determining how evenly the floor is heating.

As far as veggies go, if you're making NY style, I highly recommend taking a page out of the NY playbook and both keeping the number of toppings to a minimum, as well as going very sparsely with each individual topping. Both onions and green peppers should be sliced into long, thin pieces and distributed sparsely (ie, you shouldn't get an onion in every bite).  Mushrooms should be sauteed briefly before adding to the pizza to drive away some of the water. Piling ingredients onto a pizza works for longer baked, drier, thicker American style pizza, but it's the kiss of death for NY.  For NY, less is always more.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 02:50:29 AM by scott123 »

Offline waltertore

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Re: Blodgett vs Marsal vs Montague oven?
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2014, 07:12:06 AM »
thank you. quite honest my father ran this place not sure of he swapped them out - he's been here for 30 plus years and bought the business from someone. I always thought the were original. anyone have any input on theses ovens?

You are welcome and ask your father if he bought new stones at some point.  Servicing these ovens is well worth it IMO.  Let me know how it turns out.  As Scott posted it is worth checking all this out before swapping ovens. Walter
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 07:17:02 AM by waltertore »

Offline waltertore

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Re: Blodgett vs Marsal vs Montague oven?
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2014, 07:15:44 AM »
Walter,

How can you tell they are 1000's?  To the untrained eye the Blodgetts of this era all look so similar.  Is there something that is a dead give away between the 1000's and the over weaker ovens from the exterior?

The tag that I mentioned in a previous post will give you all the info.  I know they made a baking oven that went to 500 degrees that looks similar. Walter

Offline docjedi

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Re: Blodgett vs Marsal vs Montague oven?
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2014, 10:39:39 AM »
Wow thank you all for this info. I truly appreciate the time spent in the responses. if Anyone ever worked with a Montague oven please let me know how your pies turned out :)

Offline waltertore

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Re: Blodgett vs Marsal vs Montague oven?
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2014, 10:53:31 AM »
sorry repeat above ^

doc: take a close up picture of where the stones meet.  I can tell you if you get a good picture if they are original or not.  They also have a number stamped in them that you will be able to see unless they are turned around facing the back. I am thinking they are pretty low end replacements.  As Scott mentioned there are better ones out there today.  Walter

scott123

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Re: Blodgett vs Marsal vs Montague oven?
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2014, 11:56:38 AM »
if Anyone ever worked with a Montague oven please let me know how your pies turned out :)

Gas deck ovens don't really have a lot of bells and whistles that differentiate the various brands.  The 1000s are special because they potentially have the original asbestos floors and can typically be found for prices far below other ovens. The Marsal MB 60 has low conductivity fibrament floors and a firebrick ceiling that provides better top/bottom balance at higher temps- and very even bottom baking.  Marsal sells a 'Wave' oven that's marketed as being wood fired oven-ish, but it's really just eye candy- and a waste of time.  Other than these, gas deck ovens are incredibly similar and generic- and nothing to really write home about.  Lots of pie turning and uneven bakes as you increase the temps.  And the list of these generic gas decks is long- Baker's Pride, Montague, non 1000 Blodgetts, Bari, just to name a few.

You can take these generic ovens and trick them out, like putting in a less conductive floor, adding additional deflection and/or a brick ceiling, but none of them is going to outperform the oven you already have.

To bring your oven up to speed, you might need a new floor, and, depending on the state of the burner, you might need a new burner.  Maybe- at the most. Neither expenditure is going to come close to the cost of a new oven + the costs to bring that oven up to the 1000 specs.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 02:52:41 AM by scott123 »

Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: Blodgett vs Marsal vs Montague oven?
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2014, 10:26:20 PM »
The tag that I mentioned in a previous post will give you all the info.  I know they made a baking oven that went to 500 degrees that looks similar. Walter

I think the question was, how do you know that that they are 1000's since you cant see the tag. What from the picture gave it away to you that they are 1000's. I reposted since I'm also curious.

Offline waltertore

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Re: Blodgett vs Marsal vs Montague oven?
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2014, 07:31:56 AM »
I think the question was, how do you know that that they are 1000's since you cant see the tag. What from the picture gave it away to you that they are 1000's. I reposted since I'm also curious.

You have to open the clean out/pilot light door to see the tag. Here are the giveaways:

 The doors give it right away.  they don't open the full width of the oven as with the newer ovens which are also wider and not near as tall.  You get a "blind" spot on either side (see photo with 6-14" pies) and putting in the pies in that area is a bit tricky. It will hold 4-18" pies but the stone is only 37" deep so it takes perfect launching to fill the oven.


The control layot/cover and the other side of the oven face with the handle on the bottom.  This is filled with insulation.   

The door is counterbalanced on these ovens. No springs to get it to stay closed so there is not a compartment on the side which gives access to the spring mechanisim.


these have the original mercury gas shut off valves as by the shape and color of the red button over the gas on/off valve.  I had to replace mine with the new magnetic activated ones.  You have to hold the red button in for a few minutes to get gas to the pilot light.

The ovens have a space between them.  The baking oven stacks sit directly on top of each other. 

the 1000's have a double burner that can be seen when you open the pilot burner door (see photo).

The thermostadt dial goes to 650 as seen in the photo.   

the top oven stones may be originals.  Note how they seem to sit higher than the bottom oven stones and they look like they may be notched where they meet on the bottom.  A level with the oven photo will show if they are raised.  The notch area is blackened so it may be an illusion. I am 99% postive the bottom oven stones are replacements.  A clearer photo of each deck would verify this.

Walter

here is a copy of the spec sheet

http://www.manualslib.com/manual/18220/Blodgett-1000.html#manual
« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 08:08:05 AM by waltertore »