Too Much Heat!!!

[PizzaDanPizzaMan]

Well with all the talk about not being able to achieve high enough temperatures I had a very surprising experience yesterday. I decided to look a little further into getting my Fibrament stone to work on my BBQ grill. I have posted before about baking my pies on the grill and for the most part I have had good success and have been generally satisfied. My most used method on the grill is to put a couple 12 x 12 x 1/2" thick unglazed tiles directly on the grill and then use a perforated aluminum pizza pan to bake the pie. The bottom cooks up okay but not great and not as good as what I get on the stone in the oven. However with ambient temperatures hovering around the 90 degree mark at dinner time, there is no way I am going to crank up the oven to 550* to cook pizzas in the summertime. The problem I was having with the stone on the grill was that the aluminum shield that is needed under the Fibrament would expand when heated to the point where the lid of my grill could not seat. It would interfere with the pan. So yesterday I decided to modify the pan a little and it was so simple that I wonder why I didn't do it earlier. A little "blacksmithing" is all it took to make everything fit with the lid seated properly. Then I decided to take it a little further and put the aforementioned tiles on the upper rack to help cook the pie from above as well. I was totally amazed at what happened next. I fought the urge as long as I could but after just three minutes I had to take a look. What I saw I could hardly believe. The pie was absolutely perfect on the bottom with about 50% of good char but the top of the pie, on two opposing sides were completely burnt. I mean black as coal, just like a marshmallow left to sit in the flame of a campfire. I was both disappointed and elated at the same time. Disappointed because some of my pie was way overdone, and elated because of what my BBQ was able to acheive in only three minutes.

The next pie I cooked with the lid up for the most part and again the bottom came out wonderful but this time the top (as seen in the photo) was not done enough. I am very excited to experiment with this new baking option and I believe that with a little practice I will achieve new heights I thought would only be possible with a wood fired oven. I will keep you all posted with updates. By the way, I was pretty happy with the pizzas my indoor oven was producing with the 550 degree oven temp but I can now say that I understand what so many of you have been talking about when you say a pizza needs to cook at higher temps and for a shorter time. The crust was absolutely amazing, taste and texture were far superior to anything I had produced previously.

Pictures are attached of the second pie but I didn't think to get any of the first. I know I really overdid the amount of toppings on this one, I don't usually pile it on that heavy, and I imagine that would have made a big difference in allowing the top to cook in the same amount of time. Again this pie cooked in under 4 minutes and that was with the lid mostly open. Next weekend I will try again only omit the overhead tiles and just see how the stone does on it's own.

Comments welcome....uh appreciated.

Dan

[bortz]

Dan, grilling a properly cooked pizza is an art itself.  Just keep after it.
You may need to do some magic with foil to eliminate cold spots. I don't have a big enough grill to even give a greater than 8 inch pie a try. There's another guy on here who's into grilling their pies and maybe he'll chime in eventually to give you better advice. I think it was "snowdy" who is into it but I may be wrong. I think he went through a lot of trial and error before he was satisfied though so I tend to think that gaining familiariaty with proper time vs. heat ratio, is a key to getting what you want.
I'll tell you one thing though, some of my best pizzas are made in the middle of summer. By leaving my kitchen window open on a nice hot day, with the oven exhaust fan running, has made indoor cooking at 600 degrees tolerable and has yielding better turn outs with better consistency from pie to pie, than any winter made pizzas. I just get that pizza in there, bam, it's done in 12 mins., then I shut the window, crank up the A/C and it's off to a cooler part of the house to enjoy the fruits of that 12 minute inconvenience 
Good luck.

[Jack]

Dan,

I've cooked about 20 pies on at least 4 different gas fired barbeque grills.  I use a good (dense) 16 inch pizza stone.  I've been debating getting a Fibrement stone too.

I start with a cold grill, cover the bottom of the stone in heavy duty foil and then run the burners full hot.  I'll end up opening the cover a few times for the first pie to dial in the cook time, as each grill heats differently and factors like a wind can take a lot of the heat out, etc., but I've never tried a stone above the pie.  I find that it's very hard to make a pie as good on the barbeque as it is in a home oven.  You give up a lot of your ablility to control the heat moving out of your home oven.

I'd suggest using only the bottom stone with the lid closed most of the time, and seeing if you can get the top and bottom to get done together.  With the more difficult to control temperature on the grill, you may not be able to achieve a perfect both top and bottom concurrently.  I accept this small compromise.  I give up a little quality for the convenience of being able to grill for friends away from home.  My crust my not have quite the same texture or the cheese may not be perfect, but even a pie we consider "just OK" will amaze our friends.

Withi regard to the uneven burning of the top, was it the placement of the top stone(s), or did it align with your blacksmithing?

Jack

[Y-TOWN]

I get the top and bottom done at the same time by raising the stone and pan higher into the grill chamber. It took some time and different pans, but this "hi-tech configuration" works well for me. It was just trial and error on the hight adjustment until I got the right combination.

[PizzaDanPizzaMan]

gaining familiariaty with proper time vs. heat ratio, is a key to getting what you want.

Well I would certainly agree with that, and that is why, as Jack says below, grilling a pizza to perfection with consistency is so difficult. There are too many things that are outside your ability to control.

"I'd suggest using only the bottom stone with the lid closed most of the time". Yeah Jack, that is what I am planning for tonight. I have cooked several pizzas on the grill in the past but not with the Fibrament. I can say I was very delighted to see what my grill was able to do in only 3 minutes on the stone. I am considering still using the tiles on top but putting shims under them to elevate them further above the pie. That was the big problem last time. When I removed the tiles a few days later to use the grill for "grilling", there was actually a few small pieces of charred cheese or toppings stuck to the underside of the tiles. They actually were making contact with the top of the pie

I will post more on this as I continue to experiment.
Thanks for the comments guys.
Dan

[PizzaDanPizzaMan]

Rkos,
Fine looking pie there. That is a good idea, elevating the entire cooking surface. What is under your stone in the photo. Have you tried cooking the pies directly on the stone? I have done many a pizza on the perforated pans but you simply cannot match the taste and texture of a pie cooked directly on the stone.
Dan

[Y-TOWN]

The first item is a reversed deep-dish pan -

Every time I did a pizza directly on the stone with the stone directly on the grill, I'd burn the bottom and the top was nearly raw. I would have to put the pie in the oven broiler in the kitchen where I got the chance to burn the top as well.  I was really good at burning the top, too !

I just started messing round with metal pans I had and raising the pie higher into the grill chamber. The pie pictured in my post was approximately the same color of crust on its bottom.

I put the grill on high for about 15 minutes, lid closed.  Bring the raw pizza down to the grill adjust the flames to low, pop the lid and in a hurry put the pie on the stone (in its pan). Close the lid and wait 3.5 minutes, open the lid, check the bottom and its typically done or it gets another 45 seconds.

With this system I've not lost a pie in a long time.

[Lydia]

How long are you guys preheating your stones on the grill?

[Y-TOWN]

I put the grill on high for about 15 minutes, lid closed (high-tech setup on the grill when I light the grill). 

Bring the raw pizza down to the grill adjust the flames to low, pop the lid and in a hurry put the pie on the stone (in its pan). Close the lid and wait 3.5 minutes, open the lid, check the bottom and its typically done or it gets another 45 seconds.

[PizzaDanPizzaMan]

How long are you guys preheating your stones on the grill?

I typically pre-heat for an hour or so. The other night I left the grill on after grilling some burgers so that was about a 48 hour pre-heat!! I knew one day I would do that.

I am wondering if I really need to pre-heat so long. After seeing the success RKOS is having with only a short pre-heat I may try that. Imagine, if that works for me, it will only be a matter of 50 or 60 pies to recover the gas I just wasted the other day.

Dan

[PizzaDanPizzaMan]

I am thrilled. We made four pies tonight and they were amazing. Advancing on the above subject, I put spacers under the upper deck tiles to allow a little more room between the stone and the tiles. The results were fantastic. Four pizzas one after the other, all baked in less than five minutes. Two were made with A/P flour with a little VWG added and a touch of Ischia starter to go along with about 1/8 tsp. IDY. The others were made with KASL and a bit of Camadoli starter. Very distinct flavor difference but neither superior to the other. This is a major milestone for me, to be able to get a little char on the bottom without destroying it and still getting the top to cook up right. I am thrilled!! Pics follow.

Dan

[Lydia]

Hey Dan

Congrats!

Side Note: I like your pizza guys  I've always wondered if anyone beside me had any pizza paraphernalia/decor in their kitchens.

TO the crowd

Is anyone BBQing on a traditional charcoal grill or am I alone on this one?

[Jack]

Nice Dan! 

Hmmm, I may need to try some top stones too.

Jack

[pdc]

Nice work Dan! Those look great. I notice that you have another pan under your stone. What was the reason for this, and did you experiment to come up with that configuration? Even with turning the burners to low did the grill maintain the heat? I've had the same problem with the bottom of my crust burning to a crisp with the top still being uncooked after only a few minutes with the stone directly on the grates. I need to go find me some 12x12 tiles...

[PizzaDanPizzaMan]

Nice work Dan! Those look great. I notice that you have another pan under your stone. What was the reason for this, and did you experiment to come up with that configuration? Even with turning the burners to low did the grill maintain the heat? I've had the same problem with the bottom of my crust burning to a crisp with the top still being uncooked after only a few minutes with the stone directly on the grates. I need to go find me some 12x12 tiles...

The pan you are asking about is the "heat shield" that is supplied by Fibrament on the BBQ version of the stone. It simply keeps the stone insulated from direct flame, which they claim will crack the stone. At the price of the stone I wouldn't want to take the chance without it. However a few sheets of heavy duty foil should achieve the same results. (Do this at your own risk though.)
As far as the grill maintaining heat on low, I don't remember actually turning the burners down to low, I think that continuous flame is necessary since the insulation overall in a outdoor grill is poor at best. The tiles reflecting heat over the top of the pie is definately a factor in getting the top top done and I believe you will just need to develop a feel for flame intensity and doneness based on several things, not the least of which is ambient temperature. Opening and closing the lid of the Q only evacuates the heat that much quicker but in the case of a burnt top, that seemed at the time to be my only option. I hope that after a few more attempts, I will develop that "feel" and maybe, between the amount of heat and time the pie is exposed, be able to produce more "good" ones than "okay" ones. But one thing for sure, ain't none of 'em bad.

Do try the tiles, and report back on your results.
Dan