Author Topic: Neapolitan dough help  (Read 3821 times)

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Offline hodgey1

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Neapolitan dough help
« on: August 06, 2014, 12:54:46 PM »
Hello All

What the saying? First steps to recovery are to realize you have a problem "I'm a pizza making addict". So now the road to un-covery. I have been making pizza at home on a full rack sized stone for 10+ years with very good results with 2hr preheats @ 550* F. Slow fermented dough in refridge for 1 to 5 days "3-4 days is my fav" using high-gluten flour, salt, water and yeast. I have read a lot here, there and everywhere and now want to go to the next level.

My first thought after reading Jeff Varazono's page was to by-pass my oven lock but wife said call insurance Co. first  :'( Then I began building my own wood fired brick oven that was just completed last week after 2 summers of sweat, back aches and sometimes swear words. I started cooking in it late last summer and threw this summer. Since it seemed like I was always working on it, I didn't have the time to put the effort I needed to into expanding my dough horizons to match my oven's abilities. Here I am now with a Ferrari and I'm going to church and back in it once a week and never going above the speed limit.

My pies out of my WFO are very good, living where I live now they are better than anything that can be bought here. Problem is, I grew up in NJ where great pizza was everywhere, De Lucia's in Raritan NJ my fav. My dough works well at 67% hydration, floor temps 650-750 and ceiling 900-1000F. Last week I tried a recipe change suggested to me by a fellow Forno Bravo member to try a version of a Reinhart dough "he frustrates me because his book recommends one thing and his web site another??. This pie was  very good and even a little better than my usual. Dough, 2 day cold ferm, it had 2% olive oil & 2% honey added at I think 60ish % hyd. Loved it but I'm still searching for the holly grail which I know is different for everyone but I'd really like to produce a amazing Neapolitan pizza . I want Jesus or any other visionary to appear before me and say "my son, the secret to the Holly Grail Pizza is......." . I know probably better than anyone that it's not practical request, but hey?

Here is the more sane request, replies from people cooking with a live fire and their amazing dough recipes including dough and oven techniques. That's not asking much is it?  I just ordered today a few pounds of Caputo 00 flour, I've worked with 00 once a long time before I had my WFO and all I can recall is using 50/50 Hi-Gluten and 00. My memory tells me when shaping the dough that it was extremely soft and pliable even to where it was hard to keep from stretching to the floor, that's all I can remember? . 

Please help, I want to get to where the Ferrari is breaking the law and getting a reputation.


Online TXCraig1

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Re: Neapolitan dough help
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2014, 01:43:48 PM »
Pizza is not bread.

Offline vandev

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Re: Neapolitan dough help
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2014, 03:42:40 PM »
Here is how I do it: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=20479.0

awwww.. thats to easy..... ;D

WFO is good but i think Dylan's pies from his Blackstone blow away most people using a WFO I've seen and places I've eaten at.....I think Craig as a true WFO master would concur .... ^^^

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Neapolitan dough help
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2014, 03:44:17 PM »
awwww.. thats to easy..... ;D

WFO is good but i think Dylan's pies from his Blackstone blow away most people using a WFO I've seen and places I've eaten at.....I think Craig as a true WFO master would concur .... ^^^


Based on looks alone, there is a lot of truth in that.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline hodgey1

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Re: Neapolitan dough help
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2014, 07:57:19 AM »
TxCraig, thanks for the information. I will be giving your sourdough recipe a try as soon as I can get the starter. Have you ever tried making dough with your own starter? If so, what where the results.

Vandev, really? Thanks for your help also?.......

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Neapolitan dough help
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2014, 09:08:47 AM »
TxCraig, thanks for the information. I will be giving your sourdough recipe a try as soon as I can get the starter. Have you ever tried making dough with your own starter? If so, what where the results.

Vandev, really? Thanks for your help also?.......

No. I've not tried making my own starter. The formula is easily converted to baker's yeast with this table: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26831.msg285982#msg285982
Pizza is not bread.

Offline vandev

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Re: Neapolitan dough help
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2014, 06:49:22 PM »
TxCraig, thanks for the information. I will be giving your sourdough recipe a try as soon as I can get the starter. Have you ever tried making dough with your own starter? If so, what where the results.

Vandev, really? Thanks for your help also?.......

For sure.... Go look threw Dylan"s thread and also look at Craig's.... Now go out and try Neopolitan Pizza anywhere you can find...  You won't get anywhere close to what these guys are putting out... and the sad thing is that Craig And Dylan do it as a hobby and for the pure love of making pizza. These people that charge you for there pure CRAP....are doing it for a living...  Just shows you the lack of passion and commitment to do something consistently good and enjoy it...  If it couldn't be more F$cking simple.... I've tried 3 places out of 3 that serve "so called" Neopolitan pizza. I would prefer dominos over what they put out... ;D

Actually there is 1 place that puts out great pizza and its a cross of Neopolitan and New york Pizza and its called http://www.lucali.com.. They serve a 22 inch pie for $25.00 that is really good. I just posted a pic of the pie below... It really was so tasty....

If you need starter.. Ill send you some of mine for free...Let me know... I got mine from King Author flour and mine is crazy active..

C. ;D
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 07:25:27 PM by vandev »

Offline vandev

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Re: Neapolitan dough help
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2014, 07:43:06 PM »
When you get the pizza sorted out i can tell you what to do with the leftovers...

Chris

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Neapolitan dough help
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2014, 08:08:03 PM »
The 2 places in Austin that make pizza equivalent to Craig's both use pretty much the same method he does, although on a commercial scale.  For a true Neapolitan pizza, I will go out on a limb and state that you can't get the crust right without using a sourdough base. 

That is why I do not bother trying to make Neapolitan:  I am too lazy to keep a starter alive, and I and my family (especially) like my my style just as well.  It certainly doesn't stop me from visiting the Neapolitan places though, because when it is good it is great.

Offline vandev

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Re: Neapolitan dough help
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2014, 08:29:39 PM »
The 2 places in Austin that make pizza equivalent to Craig's both use pretty much the same method he does, although on a commercial scale.  For a true Neapolitan pizza, I will go out on a limb and state that you can't get the crust right without using a sourdough base. 

That is why I do not bother trying to make Neapolitan:  I am too lazy to keep a starter alive, and I and my family (especially) like my my style just as well.  It certainly doesn't stop me from visiting the Neapolitan places though, because when it is good it is great.

I will agree with you on the starter..  I won't agree it takes time.. i spend no more than 5 minutes a week including feeding my starter  so its a mood point...  the only pizza i like in the entire state of florida is not Neopolitan... but a cross breed if you will...  i will disagree that anyone can put forth a pie as good as crags in austin unless they live for what they do...good ingredients can cary a fool but in a few more seconds than required.. that can all go down the drain.... ;D


Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Neapolitan dough help
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2014, 09:06:37 PM »
It is not the time, it is remembering to do it at all.

Back on topic.  Using the Caputo and cold ferment, make it pretty wet as long as you are comfortable launching it. 

scott123

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Re: Neapolitan dough help
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2014, 09:10:00 PM »
The 2 places in Austin that make pizza equivalent to Craig's both use pretty much the same method he does, although on a commercial scale.

So there are 2 places in Austin using starters? May I ask where?

Offline vandev

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Re: Neapolitan dough help
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2014, 09:21:37 PM »
It is not the time, it is remembering to do it at all.

Back on topic.  Using the Caputo and cold ferment, make it pretty wet as long as you are comfortable launching it.

Give it a name like sofia...like its a pet or beautiful woman... you won't forget then... :-D

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Neapolitan dough help
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2014, 09:26:21 PM »
Bufalina and Pieous.

Offline vandev

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Re: Neapolitan dough help
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2014, 09:31:40 PM »
Bufalina and Pieous.

i like it... ^^^ My wife cracks me up.. on Wednesday night when i start feeding my starter and getting things ready she starts saying " your dough...your dough"  like its another woman..  cracks me up as i am so zeroed in and focused on the dough and not so much her... very funny.... :-D
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 09:34:01 PM by vandev »

scott123

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Re: Neapolitan dough help
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2014, 09:32:52 PM »
Bufalina and Pieous.

Bufalina uses regular yeast:

http://www.zagat.com/b/austin/the-aaron-franklin-of-pizza-bufalinas-steven-dilley

Quote
As with barbecue, the ingredients are simple enough. Instead of brisket there’s double-zero flour, and instead of salt and pepper there’s salt, water and fresh yeast

Quote
For example, if Dilley makes a batch of dough that weighs in at 35,000 grams, there are only six grams of yeast. “So if you’re off by a gram in the yeast,” he says, “you get wildly different results.”

In other words, if you like Bufalina, you can easily recreate a Bufalina quality pie at home- without the hassle of maintaining a starter.

Offline vandev

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Re: Neapolitan dough help
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2014, 09:40:31 PM »
Bufalina uses regular yeast:

http://www.zagat.com/b/austin/the-aaron-franklin-of-pizza-bufalinas-steven-dilley

In other words, if you like Bufalina, you can easily recreate a Bufalina quality pie at home- without the hassle of maintaining a starter.

looks great..  ;D but  you can't hustle 5 minutes a week ? i have more hassles with my kids than i do my starter.. :-D

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Neapolitan dough help
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2014, 10:34:40 PM »
It is not my place to say how they make their dough, if they say they use yeast, there it is.

Offline theppgcowboy

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Re: Neapolitan dough help
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2014, 11:24:40 AM »
When you get the pizza sorted out i can tell you what to do with the leftovers...

Chris

I have the pizza sorted out.  For left overs I make garlic knots or cinnamon sweet somethings which are knots dredged in melted butter, sprinkled with cinnamon and sugar with a vanilla sugar dipping sauce.  What else...start the thread.

Offline hodgey1

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Re: Neapolitan dough help
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2014, 12:52:49 PM »
Vandev, There isn't a Neapolitan type pizza shop within 100 Miles of where I live. Most locals think Hungry Howe's or Pizza Hut is good pizza. I grew up in a town in NJ with a coal oven pizza place that is still open, thou now firing it with nat gas. Their pizza is amazing and what I try replicating most of the time and now I want to move on to a more Traditional Neo pie.

Tscar, Amazon says my "00" flour will be here Tuesday and I am very comfortable launching dough wet. My question would be how wet? Right now the dough I have ready to go for Saturday night is at 65% with an additional 2% olive oil, it was pretty tacky when I balled it. When I get my 00 on tues, what hydration would you recommend and should I go straight 00 or cut with AP or HG? 

Left overs, I have for years now been taking my left over dough, barely stretching it, then throwing it on my preheated Weber grill. Cook one side then the other. I baste with Olive oil, butter, garlic, parm and hit it with some garlic salt and serve as a side to salad or dinner. My Peeps love it.


 

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