Author Topic: Whole wheat flour (finely ground)  (Read 3338 times)

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Online Johnny the Gent

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Whole wheat flour (finely ground)
« on: August 08, 2006, 06:12:39 PM »
Ok, so tried I used the same allpurpose thin crust recipe that IŽve had relative success, but only changing the flour from ap to wheat.  Jeezus christ, the dough turned hard as hell, and very difficult to stretch without tearing it in several places.  One thing that changed in my preparation was that I used only an 8 hour refrigerator rest time...Like I said, it was a hard, non elastic doughball. I ended up throwing it away without even trying it.

Has anybody had the same problem?  Any advice?

Thanks, Jon
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Whole wheat flour (finely ground)
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2006, 06:55:30 PM »
Jon,

I assume that you are using a whole wheat flour that is sold in Brazil as “integral”. A similar flour exists in the U.S. but over the past few years there had been a move to a “whole white wheat” flour which is more palatable to many yet retains the same nutritional value as the normal whole wheat flour.

There are a ton of threads/posts on whole wheat flour, which you can readily locate by searching the forum under “whole wheat” (without the quotes). But here are a few that relate to the problem that you experienced, along with some solutions that might work for you with your whole wheat flour:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1701.msg15272.html#msg15272
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2616.msg22645.html#msg22645
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,623.msg5732.html#msg5732
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2759.msg23767.html#msg23767

Peter


Offline tonymark

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Re: Whole wheat flour (finely ground)
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2006, 07:27:51 PM »
the dough turned hard as hell, and very difficult to stretch without tearing it in several places. 

I made whole wheat pizza twice in May.  I used 1/2 whole wheat and 1/2 King Arthur Bread Flour.
(I am usually making a NY or semi-Neapolitan style.)

I used the exact same baker's percentage as normal (63 % hydration) and weighed all ingredients (except salt).  I used a sourdough starter as opposed to instant or active dry yeast.  Don't be tempted to add too much flour.  You really need to weigh your ingredients for this.

I normally make 13-14 inch pizzas with about 305-315 g of dough.  I find that the WW/KABF mixed pizza really needs to be thicker for the same size pizza.  It will just not spread a thin without tearing.  I think the fiber and bran lead to weak spots in the thin skin. After a few pizzas you will get the hang of it.  400 g has worked fine for the same size pizza.

BTW,  after kneading and resting for 15 minutes the dough shaped really well.  It felt great, but after fermentation it still would not stretch all that thin without tearing.  I recommend stretching carefully on the counter. 

A pizza made from 100 % whole wheat will probably work as well, but the pizza will have to be even thicker.  I'll burn in hell for saying this, but "You may even have to use a rolling pin!"

Good luck,
TM

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Offline pizzagirl

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Re: Whole wheat flour (finely ground)
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2006, 10:09:52 PM »
I agree with tonymark. In the past when I worked with the King Arthur All-Natural White Whole Wheat Flour and similar, the results are favorable. If you seeking a thin crust, you will need to call in a steam roller to flatten it. Depending on what you are trying to achieve, it's worth it ...
Your worst day at Grimaldi's, is better than your best day fishing ...

Offline charbo

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Re: Whole wheat flour (finely ground)
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2006, 10:42:50 PM »
Jon,

When using whole wheat, it is necessary to use more hydration and to add vital wheat gluten (VWG).  I use a relatively coarse grind flour (King Arthur White Whole Wheat) and have had no problems with elasticity.  My latest recipe uses 3.5 cups flour and 3 tbs VWG.  I suspect that a finer grind of flour would require less VWG.

I've read that very fine grinds of white whole wheat have recently been developed:  Archer Daniels Midland "Kansas Diamond" and ConAgra "Ultragrain".  However, I've been unable to find them at retail.

cb


Online Johnny the Gent

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Re: Whole wheat flour (finely ground)
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2006, 08:40:45 AM »
Thanks all for the good advice, my next whole wheat flour adventure IŽll make sure to incorporate some of your tips.

Hey, why would someone burn in hell for using a rolling pin (or empty wine bottle)??? :o :)
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Whole wheat flour (finely ground)
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2006, 09:23:03 AM »
Jon,

A rolling pin compresses the dough and forces out the gases. That's OK if you are making a thin-crust dough, like a cracker crust, but it is not such a good idea with a dough that you want to have a decent thickness and good oven spring. Some professionals use both rolling and stretching. The rolling is usually done in a sheeting machine, up to about a few inches shy of the final desired size. The sheeted dough is then hand stretched out the rest of the way. Even then, they will sometimes let the dough proof before baking in order to get a thicker crust. With gases in the dough, the dough will act like an insulator and allow more time for the crust to bake and develop color and crispiness and cook all the toppings as well. It's all oven themodynamics and physics.

To give you an idea of what two passes through a sheeter will do to a dough and finished crust, you can take a look at Reply 10 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3066.msg26131.html#msg26131. After seeing the photo, I suggested that the member who posted the photo, a professional pizza operator, try hand stretching. If you look at the later photos in that thread, you will see the difference. The crust also now had a rim.

Peter
« Last Edit: August 15, 2006, 09:41:02 AM by Pete-zza »