Author Topic: mixer  (Read 2645 times)

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Offline thebuzzman

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mixer
« on: August 21, 2006, 09:22:53 PM »
I want to take the dough process to the next level!  Any recomendations on a mixer that can make enough dough for a small cafe/restaurant.  We have a kitchenaid, but it is the $300 home style one.  What is the next step for someone who wants to make larger quantities of dough?  Thanks in advance for your advice.  David :chef:


Offline varasano

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Re: mixer
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2006, 09:33:14 PM »
The Elextrolux DLX 2000 (also known as the Magic Mill 2000) can make 12 pies at a clip, maybe more.  If you need more than that, you should look at some of the spiral mixers, but I don't have a recommendation.

Offline scott r

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Re: mixer
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2006, 01:17:14 AM »
The electrolux is excellent, and I am a proud owner.   I know it's a huge price jump, more than double, but this would be the next step after that.  I am sure it makes the highest quality doughs, and a few of our forum members own it.  So far it sounds like only positive reports. 

http://www.qualitykingdom.com/commercial_dough_mixers_specialty.html


Offline varasano

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Re: mixer
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2006, 09:59:08 AM »
I looked into buying this one before the DLX.  It's a cool looking machine. But I have no personal experience.

Offline SLICEofSLOMON

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Re: mixer
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2006, 01:34:21 PM »
Hi,

I've been doing research into the small batch mixer for my book: here are some quick thuoghts.

My top small commercial pics:

The Santos mixer is a French mixer that is used all over France in small pizza operations, it tops out at around 11 pounds of dough and costs around 1200.00 or more: the fork mixing is very gentle and works really well for artisan style pizza.

Doyon 30 quart spiral mixer, does around 40 pounds of high hydrated dough and 50 pounds at about 55%, it costs 4,000.00 plus and will also work great on artisan pizza

Then there are the lighter duty planetary Hobart mixers

The Legacy Line: the L120 is a 12 quart mixer that can handle about 4-5 pounds of finished dough (about 3000.00) (45-50% hydration)

The L200 is the same as above only it is a 20 quart mixer (this is the best size for a restaurant kitchen that does other baking like desserts) it can handle around 7-9 pounsd of finished dough (about 3500.00)

the D340 is the Hobart 40 quart is a floor model that handles about 20-25 pounds of finished dough

Commercial mixers are not rated based upon flour weight, but based upon the total finished weight of the dough. Be careful to always inquire what the hydration level is of the finished dough is to determine the mixer's ability. Also note that with high hydration (anythihg over 50% to the manufacturers) the finished dough weight will be smaller. For example if the mixer is rated  at 10 pounds for a 50% percent hydration formula, it will top out at around 7 pounds with a higher hydration--and less depending upon wetter the formula is.

Personally, I am looking at the DLX to test the recipes for my book because it is a great home machine that can handle small commercial batches, however, I would not use the DLX on a commercial level--even if small because it is not rated for that use--I just hope I don't blow it out when I put it through the paces I intend to, because I'l like to hang on to it for a number of years as an excellent home machine (albeit for the serious home cook)

Evelyne

Offline varasano

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Re: mixer
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2006, 01:48:50 PM »
I'm confused.  I would think that wetter doughs are easier on the machine and therefore you could mix more than the rating. When I made dry doughs years ago 1100g was tough on my kitchen aid - it was really getting hot and even shut itself off occasionally. Now with a wetter formula and a gradual mix, I can do 1600g with no problems.

Jeff

Offline SLICEofSLOMON

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Re: mixer
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2006, 02:27:45 PM »
Hey Jeff,

I know it does sound a bit confusing, but the machines are made to operate with medium to low hydration formulas for pizza. Those formulas are also based upon using high gluten flour which requires more torque to mix out. Commercial pizza makers, on the whole do not add flour gradually, nor do they give it a riposo, they dump everthing in the mixer and go for it. These machines are made to handle that kind of use. Wet formulas would seem to take less torque than drier, but they actually make the machine work harder because the dough processed is heavier. A 50 percent hydration dough will weigh less than a 65 percent and that is where the strain comes in. If your home mixer was laboring under a dryer formula, it had to do with maxing out the weight of the dough in the machine.

The gradual mixing method you use makes perfect sense for the small batches you make at home and it might very well lessen the immediate strain on the machine--but beware that working beyond the rated capacity of the motor--even if it doesn't heat up on you, will decrease the life of the machine. One of the biggest mistakes I see with non-commercial mixing is that people tend to rate their mixers by the number of cups of flour or to the weight of the flour--and that's why they burn out their kitchen aids so much. I think this is a mistake of the manufacturer assuming that most people buy the mixers for cakes and cookies and limited bread use they don't inform the consumer properly on what the machine can and can't do.  Yeast doughs, especially wet ones are extremely tough on home equipemnt and commercial as well. Your best bet is to work within the specs of your mixer to insure the best performance over the longest period of time.

Does that make more sense? :)

Offline vitoduke

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Re: mixer
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2006, 03:06:21 PM »
I just used the DLX for the first time this past week-end, and was very happy with it. I was able to do a batch of dough for 6 eighteen inch pies at one time with no problem. The dough was very easy to handle and could easily have stretched to 20 inches. ---Mel
« Last Edit: August 22, 2006, 03:59:11 PM by vitoduke »

Offline varasano

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Re: mixer
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2006, 03:13:02 PM »
If your home mixer was laboring under a dryer formula, it had to do with maxing out the weight of the dough in the machine.
Does that make more sense? :)

Well, I guess I still don't understand. The KA was maxing at 1100g dry and 1600g wet is easy, so....

But, anyway, I hardly ever use that machine and I'm no where near maxing out my DLX. 

Jeff

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: mixer
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2006, 03:35:37 PM »
Jeff,

What Evelyne says is correct. However, I believe you are also correct if you assume a fixed dough weight. In other words, if you have two dough batches of equal weight and one is more hydrated than the other, the mixer may labor more to mix the dough with the lower hydration, especially if you are near the maximum capacity of the mixer. Usually when you experience this situation in a home setting, you make smaller dough batch sizes so as not to overtax the mixer's motor.

As Evelyne has mentioned, commercial mixers are rated by weight of dough, although the bowl size is what is used to identify a particular mixer (e.g., an 80-qt. Hobart). If you go to the Hobart website, at http://www.hobartcorp.com/hobartg5/pr/products.nsf/pages/food-prep_mixer, and look at the mixer capacity chart (linked at the bottom of the page), and especially the footnotes, you will see that there are all kinds of limitations on the use of mixers based on type of flour used (high-gluten flours require a 10% reduction in dough batch size), operating speeds, hydration levels, and total dough weight. Evelyne recently discussed the last aspect at the new PMQ Think Tank at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=1257#1257:

A mixer's dough capacity isn't rated on flour weight, but by total weight of flour and moisture. Consequently if you are using 50 pounds of flour and use 25 pounds of water or total liquid (this is 50% moisture rate) your total dough capacity will be 75 pounds. If you use a 60% percent moisture rate, the dough will weigh about 80 pounds.

If you use a wetter dough like 58% plus, then you will get less capacity as the motor must work harder. Usually 60 quart mixers handle about 90 pounds of 50% or just around that, dough. The more moisture in the formula, the smaller the batch recommended.

Go to the Hobart web site, they have the information as to the various capacities, moisture loads etc of all their mixers.


Although some operators have scales to weigh out flour, many just like to use standard 50 lb. bags of flour. Doing so can often exceed the rated capacity of the mixer and put it under a lot of strain once they add the water. The higher the hydration, the greater the mixer has to labor because of the greater weight. Some operators add the flour gradually so as not to push their mixers over the edge.

Another point to keep in mind is that the size of the mixer’s motor is something to consider in making a mixer selection. Two mixers with the same nominal capacities but with different horsepowers will have different recommended maximum dough capacities (the mixer with the more powerful motor will produce a larger dough batch).

Peter