Author Topic: SIR GALAHAD FLOUR  (Read 9205 times)

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Offline widespreadpizza

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SIR GALAHAD FLOUR
« on: August 24, 2006, 09:14:31 AM »
just wondering if anyone out there is using this flour and what they think of it.  I've been using it for some time now and think it is THE way to go for neo crust in a home oven.  Curious what anyone elses experience has been with it.  -marc


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: SIR GALAHAD FLOUR
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2006, 08:33:56 AM »
marc,

Where did you find the KA Sir Galahad flour? I didn't see it listed at all at the KA website or catalogue, so apparently it isn't sold to retail customers, at least not under the Sir Galahad name. I do know that it is sold at places like chefswarehouse.com but only in 50-lb. bags.

Peter

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: SIR GALAHAD FLOUR
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2006, 08:50:17 AM »
Peter,

What is the difference between Sir Galahad and Sir Lancelot flour? Thanks.

Bill/SFNM

Offline Pete-zza

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Offline deb415611

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Re: SIR GALAHAD FLOUR
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2006, 09:07:11 AM »
I'm pretty sure that Sir Galahad used to be in their catalog.  Maybe they are out -- KASL disappeared from their website for a little while and then it was back. 

I just looked at the description on the professional section of their website and it is 11.7 protein, .48 ash and says that it is made from hard red winter wheat. 

Deb

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: SIR GALAHAD FLOUR
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2006, 09:17:12 AM »
sir galahad is a lower protien flour (about 12% if i remember right) that is used for artisan breads and pizza , I was introduced to it at PICCO in boston while asking questions about thier ingredients.  All information is available at the king aurthur website, I believe its undr the pro flour.  It is a very soft flour that after retarding handles very nicely, and similar to the caputo pizza flour.  The main difference for me using this flour is that it browns at normal (585degree) home oven temps and can create a wonderful crust similar to what I believe a neopolitan should be(I have never been to italy  or anywhere that could duplicate thier pizza).  I have used caputo for a long time and am waiting for the day I get a brick oven , but for now i think i am hooked on this stuff.  By the way i ve been meaning to tell people on this site that a lot of todays digital home ovens are capable of "adjusting" thier tempatures + or- 35 degrees to help people when they get thier new oven "match" thier old one.  If you have a newer oven with a dig. display check your owners manual and crank it up. I guess my purpose of asking people about this flour is to see if anyone can A/B it with caputo and tell me if they think its close,  because I am not getting to italy anytime soon ???-marc

Offline Christopher

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Re: SIR GALAHAD FLOUR
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2006, 09:52:15 AM »
Hey, Guys,
I wondered if maybe the Sir Galahad is now the European-Artisan Style flour they have in their catalog? it seems to have the same percentages. maybe, could be wrong though.
Christopher

Offline gottabedapan

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Re: SIR GALAHAD FLOUR
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2006, 09:54:45 AM »
The main difference for me using this flour is that it browns at normal (585degree) home oven temps and can create a wonderful crust similar to what I believe a neopolitan should be(I have never been to italy  or anywhere that could duplicate thier pizza).

With all due respect, isn't that like saying, "Well, I'm not really a 'nuclear physicist' but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express"?

If you've never been to Italy or to any place that duplicates Neapolitan pizza, how do you know with any degree of certainty that your conception of what a Neapolitan crust "should be" approximates what Neapolitan pizza crust, in fact, is, rather than simply a projection of your own personal likes and dislikes? How can you know, for example, what the flavor, texture, thickness, and—most importantly—the "mouth feel" of a Neapolitan crust should be if you've never had "the real thing"?  ???

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: SIR GALAHAD FLOUR
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2006, 10:16:53 AM »
I qualified my earlier post because I saw the European-Style Artisan Bread flour in the KA catalogue and noted its similarity to the Sir Galahad flour. In an effort to put the matter to rest, I called KA and spoke with a customer service rep. I had a hard time getting an answer out of her (she wasn't familiar with the Sir Galahad name) but after going offline to check with a colleague, she returned to tell me that the European-Style Artisan Bread flour is the same as the Sir Galahad but sold in small bags. Apparently the Sir Galahad name is retained for the large 50-lb. bags, although she didn't know if the name actually appears on the bag itself.

Peter

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: SIR GALAHAD FLOUR
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2006, 10:31:52 AM »
I guess like i said thats why I would like to know other peoples experiences with this flour is because I dont know exactly what it should feel and taste like.  but I WANT to know in a very bad way.  I DO know that I have read everthing i can about the way it should be and have gotten closest to that with this flour.-marc


Offline scott r

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Re: SIR GALAHAD FLOUR
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2006, 12:38:03 PM »
Marc,   This flour sounds very interesting.  I hope to get a chance to try it some day.  What I can tell you is that the pizza at Picco is absolutely nothing like the pizza in Naples Italy.  It is almost the opposite.  To me the crust at Picco is very similar to Pepe's in New Haven, just thicker.

I think that if you gave any decent bread flour to a pizzaiolo in Italy the pizza would be very similar to the caputo pies that they usually make.  From my experience the way that the dough is prepared and the recipe determines the finished product much more than a particular type of flour.

I am very curious if you found out what Picco uses for cheese.  They say that it is a blend of mozzarella and provolone, but I know that there is something different going on there.  The cheese is very unusual, almost as if there is something really soft and creamy with a high fat content mixed in.  I know this would cost too much for a commercial pizzeria, but I have achieved a similar thing using some brie under my mozzarella.  Certainly not even a fresh mozzarella or buffalo mozzarella with some provolone would give you the consistency or flavor that they achieve.

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: SIR GALAHAD FLOUR
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2006, 05:54:28 PM »
Scott, when i was there, I had their margarita that did have buffala on it and another that had multiple toppings and I forget what cheese, it was one of their specials.  it was about a year ago when was there, and i remember fairly well what the pizza was like but not exactly.  Ive been to pepes, reginas,modern a etc and like you are saying, I have yet to find a good real example of Neapolitan pizza.  bertuccis sp?  is a joke as far as that goes.  being that I'm from southern NH , do you have any recommendations?  I have not been to or heard any reviews on bricco in boston, have you been?  At both bertuccis and pepes they do have cert. of approval from vpn?  Whats up with that?  Ive just been trying to tailor my sir galahad dough attempts to what I THINK? from reading about Neapolitan pizza should be like.  I am very happy with the progress folks like yourself on this site have helped me make.  Point me to Naples usa! I thought pepes had something to do with it. but I guess not that much.  btw i get my caputo and sirgalahad  at accardi in medford, they claim they dont sell to the public, but, if you tell them you are testing to open a pizza place......call first, and bring cash 50# of sir galahad was+/-15.00 
 -marc

Offline gschwim

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Re: SIR GALAHAD FLOUR
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2006, 11:12:43 PM »
"What is the difference between Sir Galahad and Sir Lancelot flour?"

I'm sure the Lady Guinvere flour can tell them apart...   :)

Offline pkasten

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Re: SIR GALAHAD FLOUR
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2006, 12:26:07 AM »
pete,

if you're curious, the name sir galahad does still appear on the 50# bag.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: SIR GALAHAD FLOUR
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2006, 12:30:11 AM »
Paul,

Thank you.

Peter

Offline scott r

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Re: SIR GALAHAD FLOUR
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2006, 01:43:59 AM »
Scott, when i was there, I had their margarita that did have buffala on it and another that had multiple toppings and I forget what cheese, it was one of their specials.  it was about a year ago when was there, and i remember fairly well what the pizza was like but not exactly.  Ive been to Pepe's, reginas,modern a etc and like you are saying, I have yet to find a good real example of Neapolitan pizza.  bertuccis sp?  is a joke as far as that goes.  being that I'm from southern NH , do you have any recommendations?  I have not been to or heard any reviews on bricco in boston, have you been?  At both bertuccis and pepes they do have cert. of approval from vpn?  Whats up with that?  Ive just been trying to tailor my sir galahad dough attempts to what I THINK? from reading about Neapolitan pizza should be like.  I am very happy with the progress folks like yourself on this site have helped me make.  Point me to Naples usa! I thought pepes had something to do with it. but I guess not that much.  btw i get my caputo and sirgalahad  at accardi in medford, they claim they dont sell to the public, but, if you tell them you are testing to open a pizza place......call first, and bring cash 50# of sir galahad was+/-15.00 
 -marc

Marc,

The Picco cheese I was referring to is their defult cheese not the buffala that they charge extra for.  The cheese is very unusual, and definitely worth checking out. I have never had anything like it on a pizza anywhere else, and I do like it a lot.

I know this seems strange, but I have found that Pepe's is the polar opposite of Neapolitan pizza in just about every way. First off, pepe's uses normal dry mozzarella cheese, and lots of it.  In Naples they only use fresh or buffalo mozzarella.  In Naples the crust is very soft, moist, and melts in your mouth. The pizzas are very lightly cooked so that they don't get hard or crispy.  At Pepe's the crust is burned in comparison.  It is very tough and dried out due to the long slow bake.  Pepe's pizzas take 8 minutes or more in the oven, while pizzas in Naples only take one minute, so there is just less time for the crust to dry out.  The fast beke times also allwow Neapolitan pies taste much fresher since the tomatos cheese and olive oil are just sort of warmed and don't really have time to cook.

What I have learned from experimenting with high temperature baking and various American and Neapolitan flours is that it is the cook time and technique, not the flour that makes the pizza so different.  I know Jeff has been preaching this, and I totally agree that at high temps the pies are not that different with a quality American bread flour and caputo pizzeria flour.  If you take the same dough made with Italian or American flour and bake it in a 1 minute oven and in an 8 minute oven the differences are HUGE.  If you are searching for Neapolitan pizza you need to search for a better heat source, not necessairly a perticular flour. 

Yes, I have been to Bricco and the pizza is good.  Like you I buy some of my flour and tomatoes at Accardi, and last time I checked they told me bricco is the only place in Boston that uses the caputo flour.  The problem with bricco, like most of the pizzerias trying to make neapolitan pizza here in the US is that they have 5 minute bake times because they don't have the proper oven.   Bricco would be better off just using an American flour that is designed for slower cooking.   I have not had good luck with caputo flour and anything longer than a 3 minute bake.

Unfortunately I have not found pizza here in the US that is as good as what I had in Naples. There are very very few places here that are even similar.  Sadly that includes many places that even have wood burning ovens and call themselves Neapolitan.  Surprisingly the worst culprit I have found is Antica pizzeria, the very place that trains chefs in the ways of the VPN.  Thanks to the information provided by Marco on this forum the closest I have found to Neapolitan pizza in the US comes out of my own oven.  I think that befriending someone like billsf/nm who has the knowledge, the passion, and a good wood burning oven is probably how you will find Pizza as good as Naples here in the US.  The next closest I have had here is in New York City at Sezz Medi, Luzzo's, and Una Pizza Napoletanna, but they each have a different take on the Neapolitan theme and are not totally authentic.  I have not been there yet, but I think Il Pizzaiolo in Pittsburgh is probably the most authentic Neapolitan pizzeria in the US.  Spacca Napoli in Chicago and Roberto's in Pittsburgh can't be that far off since they both have the proper oven and mixer.   I have also heard good reports about Picco in Oakland CA.  
« Last Edit: August 26, 2006, 01:58:13 AM by scott r »

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: SIR GALAHAD FLOUR
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2006, 07:56:58 AM »
As previously noted by pizzanapoletana (Marco) at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1038.msg25861.html#msg25861, even the U.S. President of the VPN does not have an authentic Neapolitan oven at his restaurant (Antica Pizzeria).

Bertucci's at one time was certified by the VPN but apparently had a dispute and ended their relationship. Pepe's can't be a VPN member even if it wanted to because, among other things, it uses a coal-fired oven (instead of a wood-fired oven) and it doesn't use the right ingredients, including the flour (00 flour).

Peter

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: SIR GALAHAD FLOUR
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2006, 11:38:05 AM »
Quote
In Naples they only use fresh or buffalo mozzarella.  In Naples the crust is very soft, moist, and melts in your mouth. The pizzas are very lightly cooked so that they don't get hard or crispy.


Thanks for your response scott r.  great point about the cheese at pepes its acctually sliced if I remember right?  I did think that the pizza was great there, but Its been about two years since ive been there funny what time does to the memory.  Interestingly enough I guess from reading here for the last year or two my impression of what the crust should be like is  the same as you describe above.  I have had better luck achieving this with this flour than with the caputo, although the a-16 thread seemed to get me close with the caputo browning was always the issue.  As we know pete-zza went to great lenghts with why etc. to achieve the desired browning without overcooking the pie.  I think thats what i was curious of with my original post.  Can home oven folks do better with this flour?  I did look back at the satistics of the sir galahad and noticed that it is malted.  Is this what helps the browning?  I think folks would find that the mouthfeel dough feel and handling if made at the proper hydration, is quite similar to caputo.  Also It retards more consistently, and opens up some options for those folks who like to have dough "on hand" for whoever might "stop by " and want your brand of pizza.  One important question i need to have answered, does authentic neapolitan pizza stand up on its own, when picked up , or will it droop on the way to the mouth?

Offline scott r

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Re: SIR GALAHAD FLOUR
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2006, 12:51:56 PM »
The pizza that I tried in Naples did not stand up straight if held by the cornicone.  At one pizzeria in Naples, Trianon,  the pizza was actually soggy in the middle, but it still tasted like heaven.  That is why the pizza in Naples is not sliced, but eaten with a knife and fork on the plate. It is very soft and foldable, not dried out and crispy on the bottom.  The best pies I had, one at Antica Costa, and one at a random pizza cart, had a very slight layer of crisp on the outside.  This was still not enough to support a slice held at the end, and the pizza was folded so that you could hold it properly.
 
Yes, pepe's uses sliced cheese.  I just want to point out that pepe's is excellent pizza and I really like it on occasion.  The beauty of pizza is all the different styles we have to choose from so that we don't get bored.

Without even using the sir galahad flour I have a pretty good feeling that it would outperform Caputo in a home oven.  Will you get Neapolitan pizza.....No,  but you don't get Neapolitan pizza with Caputo in a home oven either.


 

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