Author Topic: Santos Fork Mixer - Video (Read 7069 times)

Bill/SFNM · « **on:** August 28, 2006, 10:40:47 PM »

Take a look at this short video I shot of my Santos mixer working on a small batch of Neapolitan dough. High-speed connection recommended.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uNLJyWMNRY" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uNLJyWMNRY</a>

Bill/SFNM

varasano · « **Reply #1 on:** August 28, 2006, 10:44:04 PM »

link didn't work, but I'm curious to see it.

Bill/SFNM · « **Reply #2 on:** August 28, 2006, 10:47:18 PM »

Works for me. This is the first time I've posted on youtube.com, so probably I did something wrong. I'll try to figure it out.

Bill/SFNM

varasano · « **Reply #3 on:** August 28, 2006, 10:50:08 PM »

The 3rd time it work.

It's interesting. It works different than I imagined. I'm glad I saw it. What do you think of it and the dough? I almost bought this but ended up with the DLX due to size and price. I like the way it pulls the dough.

Jeff

Bill/SFNM · « **Reply #4 on:** August 28, 2006, 10:57:17 PM »

Quote from: varasano on August 28, 2006, 10:50:08 PM

What do you think of it and the dough?

Jeff,

I think it is vastly better than my KA Artisan for kneading all kinds of doughs - from very wet ones like Neapolitan pizza to very stiff ones like bagels. The "laminating" action where it lays sheets of dough over sheets of dough produces a texture that is soft and supple.

Bill/SFNM

vitoduke · « **Reply #5 on:** August 28, 2006, 11:01:07 PM »

Hi Bill- I'm also getting the message " the video you requested is not available"---Mel

varasano · « **Reply #6 on:** August 28, 2006, 11:04:50 PM »

Do you mind if I link to this on my site?

Bill/SFNM · « **Reply #7 on:** August 28, 2006, 11:06:01 PM »

Sorry, Mel. No idea what is wrong. It loads just fine on my Windows XP machine under both Firefox and IE. It looks like Jeff got it to work. It shows it has been viewed 8 times since I put it up.

Bill/SFNM

Bill/SFNM · « **Reply #8 on:** August 28, 2006, 11:08:47 PM »

Quote from: varasano on August 28, 2006, 11:04:50 PM

Do you mind if I link to this on my site?

Feel free to link to it.

Bill/SFNM

scott r · « **Reply #9 on:** August 29, 2006, 03:12:04 AM »

wow, the santos goes a lot faster than I expected. Bill, I am trying to judge the size of the mixer. How big is that batch of dough?

gschwim · « **Reply #10 on:** August 29, 2006, 07:32:42 AM »

Bill,

Where did you buy the mixer? What did iit cost?

Bill/SFNM · « **Reply #11 on:** August 29, 2006, 08:17:13 AM »

Quote from: scott r on August 29, 2006, 03:12:04 AM

wow, the santos goes a lot faster than I expected. Bill, I am trying to judge the size of the mixer. How big is that batch of dough?

Scott:

Regarding the speed: the speed of the fork is constant. The speed of the bowl is adjustable.

Regarding the size of the batch of dough: Caputo 00 Pizzeria Flour, 64% hydration with starter, 846 grams of flour for total dough weight of 1548 grams to produce 5 pies of 300g each.

Bill/SFNM

Bill/SFNM · « **Reply #12 on:** August 29, 2006, 08:20:52 AM »

Quote from: gschwim on August 29, 2006, 07:32:42 AM

Where did you buy the mixer? What did iit cost?

It was a gift from my son who purchased it at Instawares for about $860 including shipping IIRC last year. Unfortunately, there was a big price increase and they now go for about $1120.

Bill/SFNM

pftaylor · « **Reply #13 on:** August 29, 2006, 04:44:00 PM »

Bill,
Thanks for putting up the video. I can now visualize why fork mixing technology works so well for pizza dough. Out of curiosity, do you have any idea what the friction factor would be on the slowest setting? My guess is very low.

The take-home message here seems to be that any mixer technology appears to be superior to a Kitchen Aid style mixer. In my mind, mixer selection should be based on maximizing dough oxygenation and minimizing friction. A possible rank order could look like:

1) Diving Arm (though I am not aware of a 10 quart home model)
2) Fork (Bill/SFNM Santos type)
3) DLX (Varasano type)
4) Everything else (including my KA)

So unless there is a home version of a diving arm mixer, you might have the best that money can buy.

Bill/SFNM · « **Reply #14 on:** August 29, 2006, 04:58:10 PM »

pftaylor:

By "friction" are you referring to the KA effect where the dough sticks to the hook and just spins around. If so, I think the Santos addresses this by two means: 1) the angle of attack of the forks and 2) the double-prong design. Both of these act to push/pull the dough against the bowl such that there is no way for the dough to stick to the prongs or to avoid being deeply kneaded.

Bill/SFNM

Pete-zza · « **Reply #15 on:** August 29, 2006, 05:15:24 PM »

Bill,

I'm pretty certain that what pftaylor has in mind is the factor, called the "friction factor", that represents the heat imparted to a dough by a particular mixer and design. The friction factor is often used along with flour temperature and room temperature to calculate the water temperature to use to achieve a desired finished dough temperature. This Lehmann article explains the subject in detail: http://www.pmq.com/mag/2003spring/tom_lehmann.shtml.

Peter

EDIT (1/25/13): Since the link to the above Lehmann article is no longer operative, see the Wayback Machine link to the same article at http://web.archive.org/web/20070502014430/http://www.pmq.com/mag/2003spring/tom_lehmann.shtml

Bill/SFNM · « **Reply #16 on:** August 29, 2006, 05:21:53 PM »

Thanks, Peter. I understand now. Empirically I would say this mixer has a very low friction factor - the x-section area of the forks moving through the dough seems small. Furthermore, the size of the bowl is so large (as well as the fork and other parts) that I suspect it acts as large heat sink that would prevent much heat from building up in the dough - especially for small batches. I always use room temp ingredients. Next time I make a batch (tomorrow), I'll measure the temp of the dough before and after kneading to see if it warms up any. Thanks!

Bill/SFNM

David · « **Reply #17 on:** August 30, 2006, 12:00:00 AM »

Quote from: pftaylor on August 29, 2006, 04:44:00 PM

A possible rank order could look like:

1) Diving Arm (though I am not aware of a 10 quart home model)
2) Fork (Bill/SFNM Santos type)
3) DLX (Varasano type)
4) Everything else (including my KA)

Don't forget the Spiral mixers PFT.Here's a link for the smallest Diving Arm mixer that i've come across. (Sold in Italy)

http://www.idrocenter.net/impastatrici/

Still too much for the home cook I believe,
David

scott r · « **Reply #18 on:** August 30, 2006, 01:20:26 AM »

Quote from: pftaylor on August 29, 2006, 04:44:00 PM

The take-home message here seems to be that any mixer technology appears to be superior to a Kitchen Aid style mixer. In my mind, mixer selection should be based on maximizing dough oxygenation and minimizing friction. A possible rank order could look like:

1) Diving Arm (though I am not aware of a 10 quart home model)
2) Fork (Bill/SFNM Santos type)
3) DLX (Varasano type)
4) Everything else (including my KA)

So unless there is a home version of a diving arm mixer, you might have the best that money can buy.

Guys, don't forget the best mixer money can't buy.......your hands! I would at least rank that right up there with the fork mixer. I love my dlx, and the doughs do seem a little more tender then they do with a kitchen aid, but I still think that hand mixing is best. It is a little tough to do with high gluten flour, but with bread flour or caputo hand mixing is easy for a few pies at a time.

pizzanapoletana · « **Reply #19 on:** August 30, 2006, 04:43:24 AM »

Recently on an Italian Forum we covered this subject. Just to clarify, The Santos model is considered a "French Fork" mixer, as the bowls is not mechanised. On the other end, in Italy we use the "Italian Fork" mixer which has a mechanised bowl.

For Neapolitan pizzamaking, the Fork mixer is the number 1 choice.

Ciao