Author Topic: Help with Best New York Pizza recipe  (Read 27278 times)

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Offline canadave

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2004, 02:47:01 AM »
It's funny--now that I think about it, sometimes the dough develops big air pockets in the fridge, but sometimes it doesn't.  It's probably an inconsistency in how I make the dough.

Hey...wanted to mention this.  My mother is friendly with the neighborhood pizza guy who's been making pizza in New York for about 20 years, at least.  She mentioned to him that I was still working on my version of a NY pizza, and he told her to tell me one thing he does....which is to use whole crushed tomatoes MIXED with pizza sauce.  I had been just using the 6-in-1 by itself, but his deal is to combine it with pizza sauce.  This makes a certain amount of sense to me, as the 6-in-1 is too liquidy on its own.

Dave


Offline Arthur

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2004, 09:39:22 AM »
wow...thanks for all of the great advice.

Let me make some comments...

Steve, yes I will try a "test" with more water.  Hopefully that will make it less stiff.  That will be my "C" test next time.

Randy, I think I will keep the 2 min/4min/5 min rest/5 min mix cycle.  That seemed to produce something tasty.  I do spoon and level being that I don't have a scale.   Frankly I'm "afraid" of more yeast (since it seemed to rise ok and most things I've read say less yeast, the better.  As for sugar - that's another one of those things that I'm not sure about.  I haven't ever added sugar before, but it may be worth a try.

Canadave...yes quanties are an issue.  My "A" dough was enough for 2 11-12'' pizzas.   I would either like to make this two 15" or one 15" being that I have a round pizza stong that's 15 1/2"  since my oven (like most ovens) can't allow anything larger depth-wize.  I'll probably stick with the 3 1/2 cups for now until I get the taste right and then mathematically adjust all ingredients to get 15" pizzas.  As for stretching...I have a large peel that I just placed a large 15" circle on it (in permanant marker).
As for air pockets, my "A" dough had just a few and my "B" dough had none....maybe due to the kneeding technique,  "A" was the 2/5 rest/5 vs. the straight 15 minutes of "B"????  not sure.

As for sauce, I have to assume that puree tomatoes or some canned ones are just too thin for pizza and must be mixed with something since I'm almost positive pizza places don't cook their sauce.  
I'm going to call a food distributor today - roma food - I know they sell to many of the "new york style" pizza places (not the lombardi's and such, but the run of the mill new york places - and see if I can get some information out of them like:  1)typical pizza sauce - cooked or uncooked; 2) cheese; 3) anything else I can think of.

As for next weeks test, I will probably be trying....

Dough C - same as "A" but use more water (10.5 oz)  

Dough D - maybe more yeast...more sugar.

Arthur.

Offline Arthur

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2004, 09:50:57 AM »
ok...just found out from a distributor that:

- most pizza places mix their sauce between 7-11 and/or 6 in 1 and/or other tomato sauces....  and probably not cook them
- as for cheese - usually a 50/50 mix between whole and part-skim mozz.
- as for flour - high-gluten (as we know)


Online Steve

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2004, 12:04:52 PM »
Anyone have a source for the Stanislaus 7/11 tomatoes?

http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/home_pass.asp

Online Steve

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2004, 12:07:18 PM »

Offline Foccaciaman

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2004, 03:23:46 PM »
Arthur, unless I missed something in your posts about not wanting to cook your sauce, you can just simmer any mixture of canned tomatoes, peeled or sauce to reduce the liquid, making it much thicker.
Usually about 20 - 25 min on medium heat will do.
Ahhh, Pizza The Fifth Food Group

Offline Arthur

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2004, 03:32:57 PM »
yes...looks like I'll have to cook it to thicken it up a bit....I guess just from reading about how cooking sauce takes away a little of the flavor I was hesitant to do so.



Offline Pierre

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2004, 05:51:59 PM »
Arthur, you could also add some extra heavy puree or a very good tomatoe paste to thicken the sauce to the consistency you would like. You would then not need to cook or simmer the sauce. It would have to be a very good paste though so the taste would not turn toward the bitter side.

It took me very long to find a paste that still had that fresh taste and bright red color (many pastes are dark red).

Pierre

Offline RoadPizza

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2004, 06:40:38 PM »
I've found that the color of the tomato paste doesn't depend on the brand of the can but rather on the tomato harvest itself.  We've used a consistently good brand that delivered a nice red tomato paste and once in a while we'd get a batch that was more maroon or brown and it would look horrible on the display line.  When we sent feedback to the supplier/manufacturer, they said that it was due to the tomatoes that season - they were all pretty much that color (not bright red).  When we switched to another brand that got its tomatoes from elsewhere, we got better results.  Eventually, we switched back to the original brand.  

Happily, none of our recipes now depend on tomato paste.  :)

Arthur, you could also add some extra heavy puree or a very good tomatoe paste to thicken the sauce to the consistency you would like. You would then not need to cook or simmer the sauce. It would have to be a very good paste though so the taste would not turn toward the bitter side.

It took me very long to find a paste that still had that fresh taste and bright red color (many pastes are dark red).

Pierre
« Last Edit: May 27, 2004, 07:04:54 PM by RoadPizza »


Offline itsinthesauce

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2004, 06:55:17 AM »
I always use tomatoe paste to thicken the sauce...I also add at least a Tbsp of suger to sweeten it/ After adding the spices, I simmer it for 20 minutes to get everything working. My sister adds a little ginger...a little twist. But, then agin, I always thought she was a little twisted herself.

Offline Randy

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2004, 09:19:56 AM »
I find the 6 in1 ground, peeled tomatoes to be thick enough straight from the can.  When spread they will hold a row and when cooked on the pizza they will stick nicely to the crust.  In the past when I used crushed tomatoes, I would add some paste.  

In my spaghetti sauce, I use one can of 6-in-1 and I 303 sized can of crushed tomatoes drained.

Randy
« Last Edit: May 12, 2004, 09:23:46 AM by Randy »

Offline canadave

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2004, 12:57:54 PM »
Randy--don't you find that if you spoon the 6-in-1 directly from the can, there are rather large chunks of tomato in the sauce?  I puree mine to get the sauce a little smoother.

Dave

Offline Randy

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2004, 01:42:26 PM »
Dave I do add spices but as far as the big chunks go they seem to give way when spread.

Randy

Offline Pierre

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2004, 05:41:04 PM »
I just use a hand Blender for a second or so. I like the sauce to still have some smaller chunks of tomato. I wouldn't puree it completly.

Pierre

Online Steve

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #39 on: May 16, 2004, 10:38:35 AM »
Arthur,

I made up a double batch of my NY style pizza dough using the correct amount of water (I used 2 pounds of flour, 20 ounces of water, 2 tsp active dry yeast, and 2 tsp salt).

The dough was perfect... smooth and elastic. I was able to stretch the dough without a single tear... I even tossed the dough and it spun perfectly.

I divided the batch into three dough balls, each dough ball made one 16" pizza.

Offline Randy

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #40 on: May 16, 2004, 11:42:52 AM »
Rhienhart also recomends 60- 62% water to flour ratio.
Randy

Offline Arthur

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2004, 10:35:40 AM »
Steve,

Did you use a scale to weigh the 2 lbs of flour?
and was it Sir Lancelot?
Did you use active yeast or instant yeast?

Arthur.


Offline Randy

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #42 on: May 17, 2004, 10:52:16 AM »
Arthur a scale is really nice to have when making pizzas.  A cup of flour is not a cup of flour the world round.  It can vary from 4.25 oz to nearly 6oz depending on the individual.  Heck, even DKM has got a scale now.

 8)

Randy

Online Steve

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #43 on: May 17, 2004, 11:18:04 AM »
Steve,

Did you use a scale to weigh the 2 lbs of flour?
and was it Sir Lancelot?
Did you use active yeast or instant yeast?

Arthur.


I used a scale to measure both the flour (Sir Lancelot) and the water.

I used Red Star active dry yeast.

(Regarding the water -- I weigh my water because none of my measuring cups agrees with the other. A cup of water should be 8 ounces by weight, and 8 ounces by volume [fl. oz.]. So now I weigh everything!!)
« Last Edit: May 17, 2004, 11:21:17 AM by Steve »

Offline Pizzaholic

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #44 on: May 17, 2004, 11:49:45 AM »
For what its worth
I just switched to measuring and it has made a huge difference in my pies,
They are pretty cheap in comparison to mail order KASL flour!!
Pizzaholic

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #45 on: May 17, 2004, 12:16:02 PM »
For what its worth
I just switched to measuring and it has made a huge difference in my pies,
They are pretty cheap in comparison to mail order KASL flour!!
Pizzaholic

I assume that you meant to say "weighing" ... because if you didn't "measure" your ingredients, well, then you'd just be throwing them in blindly!  :P

Offline Pierre

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #46 on: May 17, 2004, 05:09:14 PM »
I've found that weighing the major ingredients (at least the flour, water) is the only way to get consistent and reliable results. Slight adjustments may be needed depending on the flour you use since ability to absorb water may differ a bit (higher gluten flours being able to absorb more than those with less).

For Salt, Sugar, Oil you can use a measuring spoon.  A measuring Teaspoon should have a volume of 5ml. A Tablespoon a volume of 15ml.

For large scale recipes it is better to weigh those ingredients as well. Especially if you are working with Bakers Percentages.


Pierre

Offline itsinthesauce

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #47 on: May 17, 2004, 05:53:49 PM »
You know it's amazing. My Mother never measured or weighed anything in any of her recipes and they never failed. Go figure!

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #48 on: May 17, 2004, 07:08:52 PM »
You know it's amazing. My Mother never measured or weighed anything in any of her recipes and they never failed. Go figure!

My mom was the same way... and I can tell you for a fact that her spaghetti was the best ever!! ;D  But, it never tasted exactly the same each time.  :)

And that's the problem... I want to achieve consistent results. I want my pizza crust to be exactly the same each time, and the only time it should be different is when I want it to be different!  ;)

Offline itsinthesauce

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #49 on: May 17, 2004, 08:53:07 PM »
I agree with you, it's got to be consistant. It's amazing, but if you don't control the measures, there is a difference.

By the way, just got back from 10 days in Florida.....there is no pizza there that comes close to tasting good, in my opinion.


 

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