Help with Best New York Pizza recipe

[Randy]

I think a lot of the cooking sauce comes from the old days when you used fresh tomatoes and to get a thicker sauce without flavor loss it had to be cooked all day at a very low temperature to reduce the water.

Not sure of this but it is most likely the source for lengthy cooking times.

Randy.

[Steve]

The reason most pizzerias don't cook their sauce is because of the extra time and money.

Think about it.

If you cook your sauce, you'd have to open up the cans, put the tomatoes in a large pot (or pots), cook it, then transfer the cooked sauce to another large container. You'd have to have enough on hand so that you don't run out, etc... plus you'd have to pay for the labor involved.  

[Randy]

That makes sense.

[Steve]

Have you (or anyone else) tried the 7/11 sauce?  It sounds like 6 in 1 is "chicago style".  Is 7/11 more "new york style"?

Can't find anyone selling individual cans.  

[Foccaciaman]

One thing about cooking the sauce might  be the Oregano factor that is mentioned in the Post by Steve (New York Sauce and Dough Recipe).

Can anyone confirm this fact about oregano needing to be cooked to release its flavor.  
Most things, however release more of there flavor when chopped,toasted,cooked or ground. But this is the first time I have heard this in reference to oregano.

[Arthur]

Arthur,

I made up a double batch of my NY style pizza dough using the correct amount of water (I used 2 pounds of flour, 20 ounces of water, 2 tsp active dry yeast, and 2 tsp salt).

The dough was perfect... smooth and elastic. I was able to stretch the dough without a single tear... I even tossed the dough and it spun perfectly.

I divided the batch into three dough balls, each dough ball made one 16" pizza.

I had some time last weekend to test another batch.  At that time I didn't get my scale from amazon as of yet (but I do have the scale now) so I wasn't able to truly weigh the flour - which I know is critical.

I did however come out with a better looking dough before rising - elastic, not sticky but great texture.   The only problem with the dough was that it was too "loose" when streching it out after a 24+ hour rise period.  I guess that means that I put in too much water???   It tasted ok, but my cooked pizza (dough) usually still tastes a little bread-y and doesn't have that candy like taste of NY pizza.  Any ideas here?

Tomorrow night I will try Steve's measurements above (now that I have my scale) but just do 2/3 of the measurements since I want 2 16 inch pizza's.

As for the cheese, I used Sorrento (not Sargento) mozz (part skim, low moisture) and that tasted pretty good (from a local supermarket).

As for the sauce, I cooked some red pack and that tasted pretty good; better consistency, but nothing like NY sauce.  With the sauce I'm still very far off although I must get my hands on 6 in 1, 7-11, and try mixing them with some pizza sauce since I think that's the "magic" trick.

[Randy]

Arthur a New York dough will be sticky to the point it slumps.  Again it should still be sticking to the bottom of the bowl about the size of a silver dollar with it running on knead.

Randy

[RoadPizza]

I did however come out with a better looking dough before rising - elastic, not sticky but great texture.   The only problem with the dough was that it was too "loose" when streching it out after a 24+ hour rise period.  I guess that means that I put in too much water???   It tasted ok, but my cooked pizza (dough) usually still tastes a little bread-y and doesn't have that candy like taste of NY pizza.  Any ideas here?

I think it might be a combination of too much yeast and/or too warm water.  I usually mix in 2 oz. of yeast to a 50 lb. sack.  And from the other thread, you can see that I usually work with 55 - 60 F water.

Too much water or too little flour are other options.

[Randy]

For a milder tasting cheese try Polly-O part skim.  Do not use shreaded cheeese from the grocery store.

Randy

[Arthur]

I did however come out with a better looking dough before rising - elastic, not sticky but great texture.   The only problem with the dough was that it was too "loose" when streching it out after a 24+ hour rise period.  I guess that means that I put in too much water???   It tasted ok, but my cooked pizza (dough) usually still tastes a little bread-y and doesn't have that candy like taste of NY pizza.  Any ideas here?

I think it might be a combination of too much yeast and/or too warm water.  I usually mix in 2 oz. of yeast to a 50 lb. sack.  And from the other thread, you can see that I usually work with 55 - 60 F water.

Too much water or too little flour are other options.

ok...so I tried some dough last night.

I took Steve's recipe and took exactly 2/3 of the ingredients, but for the yeast - instead of 1.33 teaspoons, I used 1 teaspoon.  

I do think that it still may be too much yeast (and may have caused my problem of too lose dough after rising).  If 2 oz yeast for a 50lb bag is right, then thats 12 teaspoons for 50lb bag = 4.11 ratio so for 2 lbs of flour (or in my case 1.33 lbs of flour would equal less than 1/2 teaspoon.

As for the water...I just tried using room temp sping water.

The dough looked good in terms of consistency....the test will be after 24+ hours to see if it works well and more importantly tastes right.

[RoadPizza]

I took Steve's recipe and took exactly 2/3 of the ingredients, but for the yeast - instead of 1.33 teaspoons, I used 1 teaspoon.  

I do think that it still may be too much yeast (and may have caused my problem of too lose dough after rising).  If 2 oz yeast for a 50lb bag is right, then thats 12 teaspoons for 50lb bag = 4.11 ratio so for 2 lbs of flour (or in my case 1.33 lbs of flour would equal less than 1/2 teaspoon.

As for the water...I just tried using room temp sping water.

The dough looked good in terms of consistency....the test will be after 24+ hours to see if it works well and more importantly tastes right.

I don't think that the extra 1/2 teaspoon will kill your recipe.  It's probably OK.  I know people that will double their yeast to sped up the rise.

[KFP]

Arthur,

I made up a double batch of my NY style pizza dough using the correct amount of water (I used 2 pounds of flour, 20 ounces of water, 2 tsp active dry yeast, and 2 tsp salt).

The dough was perfect... smooth and elastic. I was able to stretch the dough without a single tear... I even tossed the dough and it spun perfectly.

I divided the batch into three dough balls, each dough ball made one 16" pizza.

2 pounds = 4 cups flour
20 ounces =  2.5 cups water ( is this correct?)
2 tsp active dry yeast
2 tsp salt

overnight rise?

Metric Conversion Calculator
http://southernfood.about.com/library/info/blconv.htm

[Foccaciaman]

1 lbs of flour is just about 3. 5  cups.
would be some pretty wet dough with just four cups of flour. Good thing you asked.

[KFP]

Sooo........... Its:

7 cups flour
2.5 cups water
2 tsp yeast
2 tsp salt

and overnight rise?

[Foccaciaman]

yep & yep.

[Steve]

1 lbs of flour is just about 3. 5  cups.
would be some pretty wet dough with just four cups of flour. Good thing you asked.

Peter Reinhart says that 1 cup of flour is 4.5 ounces.  

[Pierre]

1 lbs of flour is just about 3. 5  cups.
would be some pretty wet dough with just four cups of flour. Good thing you asked.

Peter Reinhart says that 1 cup of flour is 4.5 ounces.  

that's just why we all switched to using scales now.... these cup stories get you bonker's

Pierre

[KFP]

oooooooooooooooooo! thanks foccaciaman.
i should think about getting a scale, r they expensive?

[canadave]

KFP,

Scales aren't expensive at all...I got mine at the local Wal-Mart for less than $10.

Dave

[Randy]

White Lily says 4.25 oz per cup
From King Arthur ". . .All King Arthur Flour recipes, unless noted otherwise, are written for 4 ounce cups of flour, but you don't need a flour sifter to make sure your cups weigh that much. "
In COOKING WISE she says she gave up a few years back and list her recipes as 5 oz cups.
Then the TV chef’s blame humidity on needing more or less flour.

Randy