Author Topic: Help with Best New York Pizza recipe  (Read 27656 times)

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Offline Foccaciaman

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #50 on: May 17, 2004, 11:23:42 PM »
There is one factor that cannot be controlled through weighing and measuring and that is the humidity level.
Now although  I have never actually tested to see the difference, the amount of water used would change with the humidity due to the dryness of the flour.

I have noticed that sometimes I seem to need a tblsp. more or less of water.
I always atributed this to my inaccurate measurement of the dry ingredients, now I sometimes wonder if it is the humidity, it changes so often in my kitchen if I have the window open, or the heat on.
Guess I am gonna start weighing now and watch for differences.
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Offline Randy

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #51 on: May 18, 2004, 08:18:09 AM »
The humidity is one of those urban myths used by cookbook publishers and TV cook show host to account for change in protein level of flour and the inequality of a measured cup of flour, that knew little of themselves.

Randy

Offline Pizzaholic

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #52 on: May 18, 2004, 09:10:46 AM »
Yep my bad
I do WEIGH the ingredients
OOOPs ;D
Guess I think faster than my fingers, love that backspace key
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Offline Pizzaholic

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #53 on: May 18, 2004, 09:15:11 AM »
By the way
I am stuck in the land of sunshine(Fl)
You are so right inthesauce there are no good pizza joints around
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Offline Foccaciaman

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #54 on: May 18, 2004, 11:11:56 PM »
Randy: Just curious, where did you hear that humidity was and urban myth?
From a TV cook show host or a cook book? :)
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Offline Arthur

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #55 on: May 19, 2004, 10:10:40 AM »
Never mind, I answered my own question:

http://www.chefswarehouse.com/Catalog/DisplayDetail.aspx?prd_id=GT200


Steve,

Have you (or anyone else) tried the 7/11 sauce?  It sounds like 6 in 1 is "chicago style".  Is 7/11 more "new york style"?


Offline Randy

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #56 on: May 19, 2004, 10:53:37 AM »
Foccaciaman, it is just my own testing.  If you notice very few recipes address what flour to use. Shirley Corriher in CookingWise said she gave up on the perfect cup of flour and now list her recipes by the scooping method.  I find it hard to believe humidity makes as much difference as flout type and inconsistent measuring methods.

I found this quote from her to back me up.
(from Shirley Corriher). .This means that a higher-protein flour absorbs more moisture than a lower protein flour. Baker's have blamed the difference in absorption on humidity which only makes a minute difference. This also means that a flour's protein level directly affects the ratio of wet ingredients to dry. For example, a batter made with 2 cups of high-protein flour absorb 1 cup of water to form a soft, sticky dough. The same recipe made with 2 cups low-protein flour and 1 cup water make a thick soup. It takes 1/2-cup more low-protein flour to get the same consistency as the high-protein flour. When recipes are written, one type of flour in used and the person baking it uses another. That's because they probably live in different areas of the country or their flour brand is milled in different places.

Interesting topic.
Randy

Offline Foccaciaman

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #57 on: May 19, 2004, 12:17:10 PM »
 :)True, it is a very interesting subject.

I am sure that if there is a difference it is almost to small to be noticed by regular measuring when making small 1 or 2 lbs  batches of dough.  
It was just the fact that most dry substances like four, sugar baking soda etc.  left in the open will pull moisture from the air and retain it however small. How much and how long it would take I do not know.

 But you are probably right about Humidity being used as an excuse by bakers for innacurate measuring in the first place.
 ;D
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Offline nysauce

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #58 on: May 19, 2004, 05:25:51 PM »
Was just reading through this thread and wanted to confirm something Canadadave said in one of the replys.
Quote
My mother is friendly with the neighborhood pizza guy who's been making pizza in New York for about 20 years, at least.  She mentioned to him that I was still working on my version of a NY pizza, and he told her to tell me one thing he does....which is to use whole crushed tomatoes MIXED with pizza sauce.  
Sorry I keep mentioning it (but I have to because I'm no authority on pizza making yet)  and I swear I don't work for them, but the pizzeriapros video says to do the exact same thing.  In addition they've e-mailed me back and said to use only California tomatoes for both the Crushed Tomatoes and  Extra Heavy Pizza Sauce with Basil. They also don't cook their sauce.  Hmmmm two different NY style pizza places mixing the two sauces, seems like we've got a bonified "trick of the trade"  :P


Offline RoadPizza

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #59 on: May 19, 2004, 06:45:31 PM »
It really doesn't make sense to cook the sauce unless you were using raw uncanned tomatoes.

A 550 degree oven will do the cooking for you.

Was just reading through this thread and wanted to confirm something Canadadave said in one of the replys.
Quote
My mother is friendly with the neighborhood pizza guy who's been making pizza in New York for about 20 years, at least.  She mentioned to him that I was still working on my version of a NY pizza, and he told her to tell me one thing he does....which is to use whole crushed tomatoes MIXED with pizza sauce.  
Sorry I keep mentioning it (but I have to because I'm no authority on pizza making yet)  and I swear I don't work for them, but the pizzeriapros video says to do the exact same thing.  In addition they've e-mailed me back and said to use only California tomatoes for both the Crushed Tomatoes and  Extra Heavy Pizza Sauce with Basil. They also don't cook their sauce.  Hmmmm two different NY style pizza places mixing the two sauces, seems like we've got a bonified "trick of the trade"  :P

Offline Randy

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #60 on: May 19, 2004, 10:13:34 PM »
I think a lot of the cooking sauce comes from the old days when you used fresh tomatoes and to get a thicker sauce without flavor loss it had to be cooked all day at a very low temperature to reduce the water.

Not sure of this but it is most likely the source for lengthy cooking times.

Randy.

Offline Steve

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #61 on: May 20, 2004, 07:53:33 AM »
The reason most pizzerias don't cook their sauce is because of the extra time and money.

Think about it.

If you cook your sauce, you'd have to open up the cans, put the tomatoes in a large pot (or pots), cook it, then transfer the cooked sauce to another large container. You'd have to have enough on hand so that you don't run out, etc... plus you'd have to pay for the labor involved.  ;)

Offline Randy

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #62 on: May 20, 2004, 08:54:47 AM »
That makes sense.

Offline Steve

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #63 on: May 20, 2004, 11:59:04 AM »
Have you (or anyone else) tried the 7/11 sauce?  It sounds like 6 in 1 is "chicago style".  Is 7/11 more "new york style"?

Can't find anyone selling individual cans.  :-\

Offline Foccaciaman

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #64 on: May 20, 2004, 08:06:25 PM »
One thing about cooking the sauce might  be the Oregano factor that is mentioned in the Post by Steve (New York Sauce and Dough Recipe).

Can anyone confirm this fact about oregano needing to be cooked to release its flavor.   ???
Most things, however release more of there flavor when chopped,toasted,cooked or ground. But this is the first time I have heard this in reference to oregano.
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Offline Arthur

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #65 on: May 27, 2004, 04:21:50 PM »
Arthur,

I made up a double batch of my NY style pizza dough using the correct amount of water (I used 2 pounds of flour, 20 ounces of water, 2 tsp active dry yeast, and 2 tsp salt).

The dough was perfect... smooth and elastic. I was able to stretch the dough without a single tear... I even tossed the dough and it spun perfectly.

I divided the batch into three dough balls, each dough ball made one 16" pizza.


I had some time last weekend to test another batch.  At that time I didn't get my scale from amazon as of yet (but I do have the scale now) so I wasn't able to truly weigh the flour - which I know is critical.

I did however come out with a better looking dough before rising - elastic, not sticky but great texture.   The only problem with the dough was that it was too "loose" when streching it out after a 24+ hour rise period.  I guess that means that I put in too much water???   It tasted ok, but my cooked pizza (dough) usually still tastes a little bread-y and doesn't have that candy like taste of NY pizza.  Any ideas here?

Tomorrow night I will try Steve's measurements above (now that I have my scale) but just do 2/3 of the measurements since I want 2 16 inch pizza's.

As for the cheese, I used Sorrento (not Sargento) mozz (part skim, low moisture) and that tasted pretty good (from a local supermarket).

As for the sauce, I cooked some red pack and that tasted pretty good; better consistency, but nothing like NY sauce.  With the sauce I'm still very far off although I must get my hands on 6 in 1, 7-11, and try mixing them with some pizza sauce since I think that's the "magic" trick.


Offline Randy

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #66 on: May 27, 2004, 06:20:24 PM »
Arthur a New York dough will be sticky to the point it slumps.  Again it should still be sticking to the bottom of the bowl about the size of a silver dollar with it running on knead.

Randy


Offline RoadPizza

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #67 on: May 27, 2004, 07:59:59 PM »
I did however come out with a better looking dough before rising - elastic, not sticky but great texture.   The only problem with the dough was that it was too "loose" when streching it out after a 24+ hour rise period.  I guess that means that I put in too much water???   It tasted ok, but my cooked pizza (dough) usually still tastes a little bread-y and doesn't have that candy like taste of NY pizza.  Any ideas here?

I think it might be a combination of too much yeast and/or too warm water.  I usually mix in 2 oz. of yeast to a 50 lb. sack.  And from the other thread, you can see that I usually work with 55 - 60 F water.

Too much water or too little flour are other options.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2004, 08:01:45 PM by RoadPizza »

Offline Randy

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #68 on: May 28, 2004, 06:59:27 AM »
For a milder tasting cheese try Polly-O part skim.  Do not use shreaded cheeese from the grocery store.

Randy

Offline Arthur

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #69 on: May 28, 2004, 09:44:30 AM »
I did however come out with a better looking dough before rising - elastic, not sticky but great texture.   The only problem with the dough was that it was too "loose" when streching it out after a 24+ hour rise period.  I guess that means that I put in too much water???   It tasted ok, but my cooked pizza (dough) usually still tastes a little bread-y and doesn't have that candy like taste of NY pizza.  Any ideas here?

I think it might be a combination of too much yeast and/or too warm water.  I usually mix in 2 oz. of yeast to a 50 lb. sack.  And from the other thread, you can see that I usually work with 55 - 60 F water.

Too much water or too little flour are other options.

ok...so I tried some dough last night.

I took Steve's recipe and took exactly 2/3 of the ingredients, but for the yeast - instead of 1.33 teaspoons, I used 1 teaspoon.  

I do think that it still may be too much yeast (and may have caused my problem of too lose dough after rising).  If 2 oz yeast for a 50lb bag is right, then thats 12 teaspoons for 50lb bag = 4.11 ratio so for 2 lbs of flour (or in my case 1.33 lbs of flour would equal less than 1/2 teaspoon.

As for the water...I just tried using room temp sping water.

The dough looked good in terms of consistency....the test will be after 24+ hours to see if it works well and more importantly tastes right.

« Last Edit: May 28, 2004, 10:15:26 AM by Steve »

Offline RoadPizza

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #70 on: May 28, 2004, 09:55:02 AM »
I took Steve's recipe and took exactly 2/3 of the ingredients, but for the yeast - instead of 1.33 teaspoons, I used 1 teaspoon.  

I do think that it still may be too much yeast (and may have caused my problem of too lose dough after rising).  If 2 oz yeast for a 50lb bag is right, then thats 12 teaspoons for 50lb bag = 4.11 ratio so for 2 lbs of flour (or in my case 1.33 lbs of flour would equal less than 1/2 teaspoon.

As for the water...I just tried using room temp sping water.

The dough looked good in terms of consistency....the test will be after 24+ hours to see if it works well and more importantly tastes right.


I don't think that the extra 1/2 teaspoon will kill your recipe.  It's probably OK.  I know people that will double their yeast to sped up the rise.

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #71 on: May 29, 2004, 11:20:23 AM »
Arthur,

I made up a double batch of my NY style pizza dough using the correct amount of water (I used 2 pounds of flour, 20 ounces of water, 2 tsp active dry yeast, and 2 tsp salt).

The dough was perfect... smooth and elastic. I was able to stretch the dough without a single tear... I even tossed the dough and it spun perfectly.

I divided the batch into three dough balls, each dough ball made one 16" pizza.


2 pounds = 4 cups flour
20 ounces =  2.5 cups water ( :-\ is this correct?)
2 tsp active dry yeast
2 tsp salt

overnight rise?

Metric Conversion Calculator
http://southernfood.about.com/library/info/blconv.htm
« Last Edit: May 29, 2004, 11:27:59 AM by KFP »

Offline Foccaciaman

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #72 on: May 29, 2004, 04:26:05 PM »
1 lbs of flour is just about 3. 5  cups. ;D
would be some pretty wet dough with just four cups of flour. Good thing you asked.
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KFP

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #73 on: May 29, 2004, 10:40:55 PM »
Sooo........... Its:

7 cups flour
2.5 cups water
2 tsp yeast
2 tsp salt

and overnight rise?

Offline Foccaciaman

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Re:Help with Best New York Pizza recipe
« Reply #74 on: May 30, 2004, 12:00:22 AM »
yep & yep. ;D
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