Author Topic: Pizzeria Bianco  (Read 29512 times)

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Offline Steve

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Re: Pizzeria Bianco
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2006, 09:10:57 AM »
Nice post!  8)
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Offline tonymark

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Re: Pizzeria Bianco
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2006, 09:17:07 AM »
Pure grain alcohol and rainwater !  Just kidding.


It must be distilled water.
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Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Pizzeria Bianco
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2006, 09:25:06 AM »
Well, the only thing I can think of that would not vary would be distilled water - pure H2O - with no minerals.

Ooops - Tonymark beat me to it.

Offline pftaylor

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Re: Pizzeria Bianco
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2006, 09:34:00 AM »
Good guesses but again the target remains unmarked.

Here is what he uses - An R.O. system which requires five gallons of intake to produce one gallon of pure water.
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Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Pizzeria Bianco
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2006, 09:35:53 AM »
How is that different from distilled water?

Offline pftaylor

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Re: Pizzeria Bianco
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2006, 09:42:06 AM »
While I'm not a water expert, here is what I dug up on Google:

Distillation

Distillation is probably the oldest method of water purification. Water is first heated to boiling. The water vapor rises to a condenser where cooling water lowers the temperature so the vapor is condensed, collected and stored. Most contaminants remain behind in the liquid phase vessel. However, there can sometimes be what is called carry-overs in the water that is distilled. Organics such as herbicides and pesticides, with boiling points lower than 100 °C cannot be removed efficiently and can actually become concentrated in the product water. Another disadvantage is cost. Distillation requires large amounts of energy and water.

Distilled water can also be very acidic, having a low pH, thus should be contained in glass.  Since there is not much left, distilled water is often called “hungry” water.  It lacks oxygen and minerals and has a flat taste, which is why it is mostly used in industrial processes.

Distillation  Advantages
Removes a broad range of contaminants
Reusable

Disadvantages
Some contaminants can be carried into the condensate
Requires careful maintenance to ensure purity
Consumes large amounts of energy
System usually takes a large space on counter
 


Reverse Osmosis

Reverse osmosis (RO) is the most economical method of removing 90% to 99% of all contaminants. The pore structure of RO membranes is much tighter than UF membranes. RO membranes are capable of rejecting practically all particles, bacteria and organics >300 daltons molecular weight (including pyrogens). In fact, reverse osmosis technology is used by most leading water bottling plants. 

Natural osmosis occurs when solutions with two different concentrations are separated by a semi-permeable membrane. Osmotic pressure drives water through the membrane; the water dilutes the more concentrated solution; and the end result is an equilibrium.

In water purification systems, hydraulic pressure is applied to the concentrated solution to counteract the osmotic pressure. Pure water is driven from the concentrated solution and collected downstream of the membrane.

Because RO membranes are very restrictive, they yield slow flow rates. Storage tanks are required to produce an adequate volume in a reasonable amount of time.

RO also involves an ionic exclusion process. Only solvent is allowed to pass through the semi-permeable RO membrane, while virtually all ions and dissolved molecules are retained (including salts and sugars). The semi-permeable membrane rejects salts (ions) by a charge phenomena action: the greater the charge, the greater the rejection. Therefore, the membrane rejects nearly all (>99%) strongly ionized polyvalent ions but only 95% of the weakly ionized monovalent ions like sodium.

Reverse osmosis is highly effective in removing several impurities from water such as total dissolved solids (TDS), turbidity, asbestos, lead and other toxic heavy metals, radium, and many dissolved organics. The process will also remove chlorinated pesticides and most heavier-weight VOCs.  Reverse osmosis and activated carbon filtration are complementary processes. Combining them results in the most effective treatment against the broadest range of water impurities and contaminants.

RO is the most economical and efficient method for purifying tap water if the system is properly designed for the feed water conditions and the intended use of the product water. RO is also the optimum pretreatment for reagent-grade water polishing systems.

In addition, Reverse osmosis treatment is an insurance policy against nuclear radiation such as radioactive plutonium or strontium in the drinking water. If one lives near a nuclear power plant, this is a key way to ensure the household is drinking the best water for their health.

Reverse Osmosis  Advantages
Effectively removes all types of contaminants to some extent (particles, pyrogens, microorganisms, colloids and dissolved inorganics). Requires minimal maintenance.

Disadvantages
Flow rates are usually limited to a certain gallons/day rating.
 
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Offline tonymark

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Re: Pizzeria Bianco
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2006, 09:46:10 AM »
Good guesses but again the target remains unmarked.

Here is what he uses - An R.O. system which requires five gallons of intake to produce one gallon of pure water.

Target remains unmarked?  Come on!  In Reply # 13  Pete-zza guessed bottled purified municipal water.  Now it is not bottled, but essentially the same thing.  R.O. water is purified municipal water.

TM
« Last Edit: September 12, 2006, 09:58:35 AM by tonymark »
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Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Pizzeria Bianco
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2006, 09:53:57 AM »
pftaylor,

So do you think he uses RO-purified water because it produces better results or because it gives him a greater level of control so he can produce consistent results? Probably both.

Personally, I like my well water which has a lot of minerals but isn't very hard and is somewhat alkaline (pH~7.8).  I do use purified bottled water for feeding my starters.

Bill/SFNM

Offline pftaylor

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Re: Pizzeria Bianco
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2006, 09:57:27 AM »
tonymark,
If it were up to me I would agree with you. However, since Pete-zza's answer was not technically correct in description, I deferred to Alex Trebek. Alex had to check with the Jeopardy judges and they came back with two problems.

First, Pete-zza used the word "bottled." Which is not accurate.

Second, he never used the words Reverse Osmosis. According to the judges, here are the major types of Water Purification Technologies:

Distillation
Ion Exchange
Carbon Adsorption
Filtration
Ultrafiltration
Reverse Osmosis
Ultraviolet (UV) Radiation 

So while Pete-zza was correct in stating Chris used some sort of purified water, the level of specificity was not high enough to hit the target.
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Offline pftaylor

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Re: Pizzeria Bianco
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2006, 10:03:14 AM »
Bill/SFNM,
I'm not sure and would have to guess along with you. But I would imagine you are correct on both counts. Chris is surely into control or more precisely, eliminating chance. He also is committed to maximizing the taste of his products. As he put it to me, "my pizza is only good if you like it."

It would also be interesting to look up a report on Phoenix municipal water to see just how bad it is.
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Offline Barry

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Re: Pizzeria Bianco
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2006, 10:26:00 AM »
pftaylor,

Is it sea water,  or RO (reverse osmosis) water ?

Did Chis reveal the percentages of salt, hydration,sugar(if any) and oil (if any) ?

Kind regards.

Barry in Johannesburg, South Africa

Offline scott r

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Re: Pizzeria Bianco
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2006, 11:29:39 AM »
Pete,  Did you find out if Chris is using a wild yeast biga or a commercial yeast biga?

It is nice to know that someone out there (Chris) has trumped us all with pizzafreakyness. 

That was really an amazing review! 

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Pizzeria Bianco
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2006, 12:29:34 PM »
I demand a recount.

I am on record on this forum, at Reply 17 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,571.msg5913.html#msg5913, as to what I mean by "purified municipal water".

Thank you, Tony, for trying to prevent an egregious miscarriage of justice.

Peter

Offline pftaylor

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Re: Pizzeria Bianco
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2006, 12:31:02 PM »
Scott,
Great question. I failed to ask a clarifying question defining what Chris meant when he said the word Biga. My sense is he was referring to fresh yeast but I could easily be wrong. I would bet he uses a chunk of dough from previous batches to add flavor because I could definitely taste a flavor enhancement. Since I'm already out on a limb here, I must say it vaguely reminded me of the Varasano preferment flavor profile more than say the Camaldoli. Hence my guess that it is fresh yeast based.

Barry,
Chris uses four primary ingredients - Water, flour, salt, and yeast. He would never use sugar or oil in his dough. Regarding hydration percentages, I didn't investigate a response along those lines but can put forth a fairly educated guess and say between 62% and 64%. Regarding salt, I would guess somewhere between 2.0% to 3%. 

I am getting ready to post a YouTube video showing how Chris makes a pie which shows the pagnotti appearing heavily hydrated.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2006, 02:29:18 PM by pftaylor »
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Offline pftaylor

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Re: Pizzeria Bianco
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2006, 12:36:46 PM »
All,
I trust the following video is of interest to the forum members. It shows Chris making a pie from the moment he grabs the pagnotti to the point he places the pie in his wood burning oven. All this is possible due to fellow member Bill/SFNM informing me about YouTube.



I believe the link comes complete with audio as well.
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Offline pftaylor

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Re: Pizzeria Bianco
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2006, 12:48:30 PM »
Pete-zza & tonymark,
I will demonstrate a modicum of restraint and overrule the Jeopardy judges.

Pete-zza, you sir, are hereby declared a winner.

By producing backdated evidence you have essentially rendered their argument specious.
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Pizzeria Bianco
« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2006, 01:06:53 PM »
pft,

Thank you. I had prepared an appeal brief just in case, but I now see that it will not be necessary to go to Steve with it.

Peter

Offline pftaylor

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Re: Pizzeria Bianco
« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2006, 01:11:01 PM »
All,
The following YouTube link will connect you with the final short video of our waitress describing the last three pies we ordered:



I trust the membership will enjoy these videos as much as I enjoyed taking them.
pftaylor
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Offline pftaylor

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Re: Pizzeria Bianco
« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2006, 01:27:53 PM »
Pete-zza,
The Jeopardy judges ultimately erroneously rested their case upon an ill-advised English Law interpretation which purported that while bottled purified municipal water is certainly one example of a commonly accepted Water Purification Process, not all Water Purification Processes are either bottled nor Reverse Osmosis.

This position was fully exposed by you artfully broadsiding their argument through the ingenious crafting of an empirical approach which led to the subsequent favorable evidentiary ruling. The effort to reduce the large number of frivolous claims which have come before the bench lately is duly noted.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2006, 03:01:12 PM by pftaylor »
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Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Pizzeria Bianco
« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2006, 04:53:24 PM »
All,
I trust the following video is of interest to the forum members. It shows Chris making a pie from the moment he grabs the pagnotti to the point he places the pie in his wood burning oven.




pftaylor,

Fascinating video. I have watched it a dozen times to see if I could glean any tricks. My dough is as bubbly as his, but maybe not as elastic. If I tried to stretch it that way in the air, it might not be strong enough - I'll make some extra balls for a batch I'm doing for Saturday and see how much abuse they can take. I've also got a test of some higher strength flour planned, but that will have to wait for a while. That might make it more like Bianco's, but maybe I won't like it as much. We'll see. Thanks for all of the priceless info in this thread.

Bill/SFNM