Author Topic: starters  (Read 6137 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline pizzanapoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 958
  • Location: London -UK
  • Pizza Napoletana as it was made in 1730!
    • Forno Napoletano - Pizza Ovens
Re: starters
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2006, 06:24:37 PM »
what about lard?;

Is tasty but Unhealthy  :P


Offline pizzanapoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 958
  • Location: London -UK
  • Pizza Napoletana as it was made in 1730!
    • Forno Napoletano - Pizza Ovens
Re: starters
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2006, 05:22:34 PM »


According to the document that I have "once the individual dough balls are formed, they are left in rising boxes for a second rising that lasts from 4-6 hours.  By controlling storage temperature, these dough balls can then be used at any time within the following 6 hours."  To me this reads as refrigeration (controlling storage temperature)  But maybe I am wrong....

Cheers,
-E

Edan,

I am not sure which document and/or translations you are referring to, but this is the STG document available on VPN Italy website (version before my complaint)

http://www.pizzanapoletana.org/images/file/disciplinare_stg.pdf

in "2) Lievitazione", in the last few lines specifically indicates to be use within 6 hours, left at room temperature (temperatura Ambiente)

Probably VPN US made their own version so they can justify their teaching on the use of the fridge.  ???. what a shame..  :'(

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22306
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: starters
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2006, 05:50:38 PM »
Marco,

If you go to the U.S. VPN website at http://www.verapizzanapoletana.org/vpn/vpn_frames-index.htm and click on the Rules and Charter links at the bottom of the page, you will see that nothing is said about either room temperature or cold fermentation. The FAQ page includes the following statement but no link to the international discipline document:

The authenticity of pizza here means the extent to which it conforms to the international discipline of Verace Pizza Napoletana and to the original authentic Neapolitan pizza as distinguished from other varieties of pizza deriving from it.

Peter

Offline shango

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 344
  • Age: 41
  • Location: right here
Re: starters
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2006, 09:35:30 PM »
 We will be making the first batch of pizza dough with starter on Monday night, stay tuned!
pizza, pizza, pizza

Offline scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3075
  • Age: 43
  • Location: boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
Re: starters
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2006, 01:14:06 AM »
let me guess what the results will be.

The best tasting and textured dough you have ever made!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline pizzanapoletana

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 958
  • Location: London -UK
  • Pizza Napoletana as it was made in 1730!
    • Forno Napoletano - Pizza Ovens
Re: starters
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2006, 12:18:10 PM »
Marco,

If you go to the U.S. VPN website at http://www.verapizzanapoletana.org/vpn/vpn_frames-index.htm and click on the Rules and Charter links at the bottom of the page, you will see that nothing is said about either room temperature or cold fermentation. The FAQ page includes the following statement but no link to the international discipline document:

The authenticity of pizza here means the extent to which it conforms to the international discipline of Verace Pizza Napoletana and to the original authentic Neapolitan pizza as distinguished from other varieties of pizza deriving from it.

Peter

Peter,

The information you are referring to are only brieves and Excerpts, however the members should own the full "disciplinare", thus 2 Amys should have a full disciplinare given to them by VPN America.

There are 2 official disciplinare circulating on the net, one is the 1997 version and the other is the 2004 version, approved by the Ministry as well as the EU. In 1992, however, one of the first drafts, also specifically talked about "lievito di Birra e lievito madre (other name for crisceto)" as the two fermenting agents traditionally used. This draft was published in a famous Pizza book......



Ciao

Offline shango

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 344
  • Age: 41
  • Location: right here
Re: starters
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2006, 09:55:43 PM »
Well, The first batch of dough was a success.
We went with 9.6# starter and 5# 00 flour.
slow incorporation over the course of a 10 minute hobart mix.
added salt.
10 minute hobart.
2 hour proof in @ room temp in different rooms.
scaled balled and used within 10 hours no refrigerator

results; soft, heat resistant, crispy/chewy dough.

with a little more practice.........

pizza, pizza, pizza

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22306
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: starters
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2006, 11:01:53 PM »
Edan,

From your brief description and quantities of starter and flour, it sounds like you are using a sponge or poolish preferment, which is not Neapolitan to the best of my knowledge. Of course, that may not be of any interest to you. Out of curiosity, is all the formula yeast (commercial) and the water (all or most) in the starter?

Peter

Offline shango

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 344
  • Age: 41
  • Location: right here
Re: starters
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2006, 08:44:49 PM »
I'd rather not get into a lot of detail in regards to the recipe so far....

The post above tells all that you really need to know anyway.

Think of the starter as more of a "mother".

Tomorrow we will see the production of the second batch with the same starter...Only on a larger scale..

comparative pictures of compressed yeast slow rise dough and what I like to call, "Marco's"  (for the inspiration, not the recipe) dough.

later,
-E
pizza, pizza, pizza

Offline shango

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 344
  • Age: 41
  • Location: right here
Re: starters
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2006, 09:44:51 PM »
It has not been a good dough day  :-\ :-[

Oh well...I forgot my french. (mis en place)

Tomorrow's dough will be excellent. Back to the small batch, but the mother is very happy today....

peace,
-E
pizza, pizza, pizza


Offline shango

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 344
  • Age: 41
  • Location: right here
Re: starters
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2006, 08:31:02 PM »
triple post.......sorry ::)

Today's dough trials were all successful.

Tad mixed up three different batches.

2 natural and one "biga".

all 3 were unique....I would almost say superior to our current fresh yeast recipe, to soon to say however.

The pictures are coming....

-E

pizza, pizza, pizza

Offline varasano

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 712
  • Location: Atlanta (Bronx born and raised)
  • Seeking perfection
Re: starters
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2006, 09:28:01 PM »
I predict you'll never go back to fresh yeast


Offline shango

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 344
  • Age: 41
  • Location: right here
Re: starters
« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2006, 10:50:38 PM »
Peter,

The information you are referring to are only brieves and Excerpts, however the members should own the full "disciplinare", thus 2 Amys should have a full disciplinare given to them by VPN America.

Ciao

I am old, blind, and stubborn.  I can not read this again.
pizza, pizza, pizza

Offline icemncmth

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 42
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: starters
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2006, 07:06:07 PM »
I don't want to stir the pot.....but stop and think when the first pizzas were made....Did these people have access to commercial yeast?......Or were they using the clay jar that contained natural yeast..

This same discussion goes on at several forums....it is kind of like asking what type of flour were the first pizza makers using.....and would it be the same as the 00 flour we use today..

What about cheese?





Offline shango

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 344
  • Age: 41
  • Location: right here
Re: starters
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2006, 07:31:59 PM »
today's dough was delicious. 

The sour from the starter really came through.

excellent crisp, tender center corona, extremely heat resist.

I am happy ;D

total of a nine hour rise on these and probably a couple more hours before they peak...time will tell.

They were hard to stretch..but, The marinara was by far the best.

Pizze,
-E
pizza, pizza, pizza


 

pizzapan