Author Topic: Cooked vs Uncooked pizza sauce....  (Read 98123 times)

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Offline mivler

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Re: Cooked vs Uncooked pizza sauce....
« Reply #50 on: January 19, 2007, 11:36:02 PM »
November,

I have been slowly adding to my spice collection. I think I'm going to try the full recipe again. Based on my calculations with a scale with an accuracy of 1/10 gram I get the following accuracy (based on a 794 gram can of puree)
               % off
sucrose             0.0000%
kosher salt    0.0000%
garlic powder   0.0000%
onion powder   0.0000%
black pepper    4.9145%
paprika             -1.7612%
rosemary   -6.7392%
oregano    -6.1822%
basil               3.7984%
thyme            11.1327%
fennel seed   -7.1926%
tarragon    0.8812%
marjoram   -29.1107%
parsley             68.8448%
Total             0.0000%

What % accuracy do you think I need to measure by weight rather than volume? I would send or show you my spreadhseet but I don't know how.

Thanks,

Michael

Edit: I just checked my math. It's based on using the numbers you gave rounded to 1/10 gram but the assumption is that I would have to measure exactly, so I don't think my calcuations are that valid. I did see that as a general rule the larger the batch the more accurate the weights are. I'm just not sure how small of a batch I can make based on weight and have it still be accurate. How accurate is the scale you are using when you measure spices?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2007, 11:48:57 PM by mivler »


Offline November

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Re: Cooked vs Uncooked pizza sauce....
« Reply #51 on: January 20, 2007, 12:55:56 AM »
Michael,

I'm not exactly sure what you're doing with the percentages you listed, but for a 1-gram resolution scale you would need at least 16.884 kg of tomato puree.  If your scale can measure 0.1 g, then you could use as little as 1.6884 kg of puree.  I don't use a digital scale for measuring spices because I only have use for 29 oz. of pizza sauce at a time.  I posted the percentages by weight because of recent interest.

- red.november

EDIT: "I'm just not sure how small of a batch I can make based on weight and have it still be accurate."

If that's what those percentages were for, you definitely took the long road.  To know the minimum amount of puree to use and still be accurate with the smaller quantities, just divide the smallest weight increment your scale will measure by the smallest percentage, and multiply that by the amount of puree (largest percentage).  For example: (0.1 / 0.059226) * 1000.

Believe it or not, I've actually been working on a tool that will solve the other part of the problem, which is rounding error.  I took a break from its development to reply to your post as a matter of fact.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2007, 01:11:53 AM by November »

Offline Wazza McG

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Re: Cooked vs Uncooked pizza sauce....
« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2007, 06:11:22 PM »
Nov,

If I get 3.5 grams of my choice dried herbs and ground them in a small mortar -  add 10ml of water - give it another pestle to make a dry paste - cover the mortar with plastic wrap.  Shove it in my 1100W microwave for 42 seconds at 30% power and I get a good spoonful of herbs to infuse with a 750g bottle of Italian passatta - brilliant.  Stir it in the passatta thoroughly with other suggested ingredients and back in the fridge for another 6 hours - too easy!  I never ever liked cooking the tomato passatta prior to infuse the ingredients.  Thanks.

Let me know if my math fairs out - no digi thermo here.

Good work,

Wazza McG
« Last Edit: January 23, 2007, 06:13:12 PM by Wazza McG »
Fair Dinkum - you want more Pizza!  Crikey ! I've run out out them prawny thingymebobs again!

Offline November

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Re: Cooked vs Uncooked pizza sauce....
« Reply #53 on: January 23, 2007, 11:13:49 PM »
Wazza McG,

42 seconds and 10 mL of water might work depending on the herbs you use.  Start with that time if you aren't using garlic or onion powder.  If you are using garlic or onion powder, use up to 52 seconds.  Since you don't have a digital thermometer, poke your finger in the mix after pulling it out of your microwave.  If it's so hot you can't hold your finger to it for even a second, it's too hot.  If it's above your comfort zone (and above hot tap water), but bearable for a full second (and probably not bearable for two seconds), you've hit the right temperature.  Try not to burn yourself.

- red.november

Offline November

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Re: Cooked vs Uncooked pizza sauce....
« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2007, 09:49:41 AM »
For those using #2 or keeping an eye for changes to it, I have another variation that I thought I would share.  For just a little background, I really like cocktail sauce (mostly for shellfish), and more specifically horseradish sauce (for lots of things).  Recently I determined how much wasabi to add to #2 that would compliment the other flavors without being overpowering.  It seems that adding 0.507326 (by weight according to the previous post by weight) or approximately 0.125 teaspoon (by volume according to the original post) wasabi powder, and substituting white pepper for black pepper hits the mark.  As the small quantity is intended to do, it doesn't alter the flavor much in the front of the mouth, but it takes effect closer to the back of the mouth and throat.  It also just creates a mildly sweet, warm sensation, not a spicy, burning one.

I expect to use this variation anytime I prepare my "NY Deli Pizza", or anything involving seafood.

- red.november

Offline MWTC

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Re: Cooked vs Uncooked pizza sauce....
« Reply #55 on: February 07, 2007, 11:34:36 AM »
Red.November,

With all of you knowledge of spices and flavoring of sauce, have you ever experimented with these two in adding flavor to dough. I'm looking for flavor increase in my dough formulation. I am using a poolish to accomplish some of what I am looking for but a thought came to mind that you might have something that takes off when the dough is baked. A flavor injection of sort. Any ideas? I have not experimented with starters yet, but that is in the near future.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

MWTC  :chef:

Offline November

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Re: Cooked vs Uncooked pizza sauce....
« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2007, 01:57:53 PM »
MWTC,

See the last paragraph in this reply:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4517.msg39720.html#msg39720

- red.november

Offline MWTC

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Re: Cooked vs Uncooked pizza sauce....
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2007, 02:19:54 PM »
November,

Where do I find such a product? ("Better Than Cream Cheese" by Tofutti)

And how much will I use for 800 grams of flour?

MWTC  :chef:

Glad to hear from you, thought we lost you.  :'(

Offline November

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Re: Cooked vs Uncooked pizza sauce....
« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2007, 02:53:39 PM »
MWTC,

I would assume near the dairy section of your local supermarket.  I find it in between the milk and yogurt section of the store I shop at.  If your store has a vegan section, it might also be there (assuming it's a refrigerated section).  If you can't find that specific brand, you could always try other soy butter or soft cheese brand equivalents.  How much you use depends on how much oil you want in your dough.  There is 5g of oil per 30g of soy cream cheese.  I only use it as a complimentary flavor, so I blend other oils with it to make up the total oil amount.  Believe or not, I wouldn't worry about this affecting hydration either.  It's fairly hydration neutral despite the amount of water that's in it.  The solids in it are much more hygroscopic than flour.

- red.november


Offline MWTC

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Re: Cooked vs Uncooked pizza sauce....
« Reply #59 on: February 13, 2007, 10:43:57 AM »
Red.November,

I went to Whole Foods and they carry the Better Than Cream Cheese but it was out of stock. They will have it in a couple of days. Just a point of clarification, they had some Soy Nut Butter but it is like peanut butter is that what you were talking about when you said Soy Butter or is Soy Butter like margarine? If it like margarine what brand do you suggest?

MWTC  :chef:

Offline November

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Re: Cooked vs Uncooked pizza sauce....
« Reply #60 on: February 13, 2007, 12:45:41 PM »
MWTC,

Soy nut butter would certainly be something else.  That's a very good point of clarification.  I generically meant any soy based butter product substitute.  Margarine is just one of several, although I prefer non-hydrogenated food products when possible (the soy cream cheese doesn't seem possible), so if you can find something non-hydrogenated, that would be a better option.  What to look for on the ingredient list: soybean oil, soy protein, soy lecithin, lactic acid, and usually items like water, salt, natural flavor.  One brand I picked up not too long ago ("Earth Balance") is actually a "butter spread" which contains four oils: soybean, palm, canola, and olive.  It has half the saturated fat as butter, no trans fatty acids, and of course no cholesterol.  If you look in the same section as you found that soy cream cheese, you will find much better quality butter product substitutes than plain margarine.  The best reason for using these soy products over dairy, and I consider there to be a few, is the crazy-long shelf life of almost a year, even for the non-hydrogenated stuff.  This is indicative of nearly nonexistent bacterial incubation, which is dairy's disadvantage.

- red.november

Offline pierce652

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Re: Cooked vs Uncooked pizza sauce....
« Reply #61 on: May 11, 2007, 10:49:24 PM »
Well I finally got around to making this sauce and had all the ingredients except the fennel seed.  I know I have it but my 1 year old loves to play in the spice cabinet so its currently missing.  >:( After an hour in the fridge I tasted it and have to say it is the best homemade sauce recipe Ive come across.  My hat is off to your recipe and your knowledge.  Im going to use it tomorrow with the "thin version of Randy's American Style" which is my favorite crust.  Going to use a new pizza pan I picked up a while back.  Usually use a stone but the dough is too big for the stone.  Cant wait and will let you know how the finished product comes out.  Once again, thanks.
BBQ, Pizza, Flyfishing

Offline November

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Re: Cooked vs Uncooked pizza sauce....
« Reply #62 on: May 12, 2007, 11:33:21 AM »
Thank you, pierce652.  Fennel seed also makes a decent tea.  Maybe your 1-year-old is having a tea party. :)

- red.november

Offline MWTC

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Re: Red November Pizza Sauce (#2) by weight
« Reply #63 on: May 22, 2007, 02:26:06 PM »
Per recent interest, here's Red November Pizza Sauce #2 by weight.  This is the definitive quantitative set based on my initial research into complimentary chemical compounds responsible for flavor and aroma.  If someone were to make a really large batch of this sauce, this would be the set of numbers to use, not the volumetric ones.

1000.000000
tomato puree @ 1.053 g/cc
17.600000
sucrose
8.800000
kosher salt
4.400000
garlic powder
4.400000
onion powder
0.953157
black pepper
0.814342
paprika
0.536131
rosemary
0.532948
oregano
0.481703
basil
0.359930
thyme
0.323250
fennel seed
0.198253
tarragon
0.141065
marjoram
0.059226
parsley

- red.november

Red.November

I just bought a can of Escalon 6 in 1. It is a large can, 6lb. 9oz. total weight. Would you give me the number to multiply by to use your #2 recipe. My math skills aren't even close to yours. You already did it for me for a can of 28oz.

Thanks,

MWTC  :chef:

« Last Edit: May 22, 2007, 02:27:52 PM by MWTC »

Offline MWTC

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Re: Cooked vs Uncooked pizza sauce....
« Reply #64 on: May 22, 2007, 04:56:08 PM »
Red.November

Tell me if I am right. I times everything by 2.977  :-\

MWTC  :chef:

Offline sanchez

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Re: Cooked vs Uncooked pizza sauce....
« Reply #65 on: May 23, 2007, 06:29:43 AM »
6lb 9oz = 105 ounces.  Divide that by 28 ounces and you get 3.75.  I would think you could multiply the numbers from your original 28 ounce recipe by your factor of 3.75 and come out with the right ratios.

Offline MWTC

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Re: Cooked vs Uncooked pizza sauce....
« Reply #66 on: May 23, 2007, 11:00:20 AM »
Thank-you Sanchez.

Red.November confirmed that the number that I put out was right.

I'm sure going at it another way, the way you showed, works also.

Try the recipe, its excellent. In fact it seems to get better with age!!!  :o

MWTC  :chef:


Offline sanchez

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Re: Cooked vs Uncooked pizza sauce....
« Reply #67 on: May 24, 2007, 08:12:41 AM »
Okay then.  ;D  Just for a general math lesson for myself can you explain how you came up with 2.977?

Offline November

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Re: Cooked vs Uncooked pizza sauce....
« Reply #68 on: May 24, 2007, 08:23:01 AM »
sanchez,

105 oz = 2976.7 g
2976.7 / 1000 = 2.9767

- red.november

Offline sanchez

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Re: Cooked vs Uncooked pizza sauce....
« Reply #69 on: May 24, 2007, 08:43:13 AM »
LOL.  I must be in the remedial class.  I assumed that since the larger can of tomatos were 3.75 times larger than the smaller one that each ingrediant could just be upped by 3.75 times the original amount.   :-[

Offline November

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Re: Cooked vs Uncooked pizza sauce....
« Reply #70 on: May 24, 2007, 08:58:31 AM »
sanchez,

You can still do it the way you mentioned, but the precision will depend on how much MWTC rounded his numbers the first time around.  By multiplying anew, the original precision can be maintained.

- red.november

Offline pkasten

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Re: Cooked vs Uncooked pizza sauce....
« Reply #71 on: May 29, 2007, 02:59:52 PM »
made a pretty good "uncooked" tomato sauce last night... and from tomatoes I'm not really crazy about.

1 can Cento "chef cut" (28oz)
1 T finely chopped fresh oregano
1.5 T finely chopped fresh basil
1 T finely chopped fresh chive
1/2 t diamond crystal kosher salt
1 medium garlic clove, finely chopped

drain tomatoes of all juice/puree.  pulse in blender until coarsely pureed.  add remaining ingredients.  yielded 1.25 cups.  used about 1 cup on a 14" pie.

paul

Offline Adydar

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Re: Cooked vs Uncooked pizza sauce....
« Reply #72 on: June 03, 2007, 07:24:37 AM »
Hello all, first post.

I tried this sauce, it came out of the refrigerator after about 10 hours "chunky".  Is this a case of my refrigerator being too cold?

Thanks,
Andy

Offline November

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Re: Cooked vs Uncooked pizza sauce....
« Reply #73 on: June 03, 2007, 08:08:58 AM »
Andy,

Are you referring to the sauce in the preceding post, or some other sauce in this thread?  If you use fresh garlic in your sauce as the preceding post directs, it is quite possible to get chunky (gelatinous) sauce.  This is because garlic (and onion) release methyl pectin esterase enzymes which react with the pectin in tomato.

- red.november

Offline Adydar

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Re: Cooked vs Uncooked pizza sauce....
« Reply #74 on: June 03, 2007, 08:12:57 AM »
Thanks for the reply Red, I used your #2 recipe.  I used RedPack puree and used all dry ingredients.

Andy