Author Topic: Pizza Shark's Authentic New York Style - Photos - Challange Answered!  (Read 27285 times)

k0sTi and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Pizza Shark

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 27
  • I Love Pizza!
On of our beloved forum contributors (who will be burning his home down someday trying to bake a pizza in his oven's cleaning cycle).   I don't recommend anyone start playing with safety lock on your oven door to bypass the cleaning cycle lock-out and start trying to bake pizza in your kitchen at 800 degrees or something.  I hope this guy has the fire department on speed-dial and a sledge hammer in the kitchen.  At the first sign of fire he better take the hammer to the oven and claim he was trying to put it out the fire it.  In short, if the fire marshal reports to the insurance company that oven was "tampered" with to achieve an 800 degree bake he can kiss the insurance claim goodbye.   

That stated, my pizza was also called a lame attempt at NY Style and looked more like a wanna-be Pappa John's.  Well, I must admit I bake in 550 degree oven and before I risk burning my home and all of my possessions to the ground I'll fly to NYC and buy a slice. That being said, there is ABSILUTELY NO REASON you can not virtually duplicate a Premium NY pie in your 550 degree oven.  Period!.     

I decided it was time to invite some people over for drinks and pizza and make my very best this weekend.  Not the Pizzaria "R" recipe I shared that will get you their pizza but REAL PIZZA on par with NYC's very best. 
This is not NY "street" pizza and ya certainly won't find the recipe and technique in any pizza cookbook where the owners of these landmark establishments use authors for free marketing purposes.  They basicly let the them watch the mixer run for a few minutes, allow them to toss some dough/spread some sauce, watch some pie's bake and then send them on their merry way knowing little more than they did when they came in.  If an author really wanted to write a pizza cook book, I would recommend they pretend to be a nobody & apply for a job at a high-end pizzaria.  Ya haven't really learned anything until you have dough under your nails, the hair burned off your arms, and the respect of the next guy to be hired who you have to teach.

So,  Here are the pies as finnished products and my following posts will tell you how to make them with all the secrets you wont' read in a book, EXACTLY THE SAME, AT HOME, AT 550 DEGREES.



Offline Pizza Shark

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 27
  • I Love Pizza!
Shark's Fresh-Milled Pizza Sauce
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2006, 02:34:46 PM »
I purchase Organic tomatoes from local farm stands and such.  A local Organic grocery store sells me 5 lbs of locally grown tomatoes for $1.  These are the tomatoes that aren't "pretty" enough to go on the shelf.  However, they are just fine for my sauce.  I get a mixed bag of romas, and such.  Tomatoes are tomatoes when they are fresh and locally grown.  I wash them and throw them in boiling water on the stove for 5 minutes to soften the skins for the mill.  I don't worry about dipping, cooling and peeling them... thats what the mill is for.  I then drain them and dump them in the mill.  After milling I toss all the seeds and skins.  I and am left with a quart or so of very watery sauce.  I turn the heat to medium high and add 1/4 cup tomato paste, 1 tsp of dry oregano, 1/4 tsp of black pepper, 1 tsp salt, 1/2 tsp crushed red pepper, 1 tsp sugar, mix and allow to lightly boil.  Tomato paste adds sweetness & depth beneath the fresh tomato base, increases yield & boosts color.  As this mix boils the acid will foam to the top... continuously remove this foamy acid.  That acid is what gives you heartburn and as you probably tasted the sauce when it was fresh milled.  That is what burned in the back of your throat.  Continue gentle boil until reduced to the consistency of paint or that cheap Ragu brand of spaghetti sauce.  It should be smooth, slightly watery, not pastey, and not much will stick to a spoon that is inserted and removed.  Then, set aside and cool.  ONLY ADD FRESH BASIL to the cooled sauce.  Now you can add your basil.  It will cook on the pizza.  Never add dry Oregano to sauce that won't be cooked.  Oregano takes time and heat to release it's flavor, the opposite of basil.  Oregano that is sprinkled on a pizza or mixed into a pizza sauce base will not release flavor during the bake.  If you use a base, take your dry oregano and boil it in 1/4 cup of water for a few minutes.  Then add the oregano & water to your sauce base.  If you use fresh oregano, treat it as fresh basil.

Offline Pizza Shark

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 27
  • I Love Pizza!
Shark's Fresh Pizza Dough
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2006, 03:48:54 PM »
You will need:

A kitchenaid "lil hobart" mixer which most here have.
1 3/4 cups of 110-115 degree water.
2 tsp dry yeast
2 tsp honey
1 tbs oil (you decide which kind, it doesn't really matter)
2 tsp Salt
5 Cups Flour (Full Strength, Bread, all-purpose, bleached/unbleached, a mix of these it really doesn't matter THAT much).  To prove my point I made these pizzas with ALL PURPOSE FLOUR and nothing more.

This recipe makes THREE 14" pizzas.

Swish hot water around in your mixing bowl and your measuring cup to pre-heat them (it does no good to pour 115 degree water into a cold mixing bowl that immediately drops it to 95 degrees).  Measure your water in the heated measuring cup and pour it in the heated mixing bowl followed by the honey & yeast (no salt yet as it fights the yeast).  Stir until mixed and let stand until foamy (about 10 minutes).  Mix your flour & salt together in a separate container.  Add 1 tbs of oil to the foamy mixture and follow with 3 cups of the flour/salt mixture.  Turn on to speed #2 for 3 minutes.  Then, begin gradually adding flour mixture at 1/4 cup amounts every 30 seconds or so until the dough begins to cling to the hook instead of the sides.  Don't be afraid to quickly shove a rubber spatula in there to assist this process.  Continue adding flour until the dough no longer sticks to sides and no longer forms a pool of wet dough on the bottom of bowl.  Don't worry about "Over Kneeding".  You can kneed NY style dough for 25 minutes and it won't hurt it.  You can't really over kneed NY pizza dough because it is a very moist dough.  You can only over-kneed dry doughs.  Once it is clinging to the hook and the bottom is clean while mixing continue for another 5 minutes or until it appears SMOOTH and has a nice SHEEN to it.  After 5 minutes, shut her down and stick your finger into it for 5 seconds... This is the test... You should be able to remove your finger after 5 seconds "relatively" clean.  See photos.  Now stick it in for 10 seconds, the dough after 10 seconds will probably stick all over your finger.  That is the ultimate dough.  Won't stick to you as it is tossed quickly, yet loaded with moisture that can be burned off in the high temp bake to result in a highly crisp crust yet melt-in-ur-mouth hot bread-like interior.

Once you are there, THE LAW IS THIS...  RAW FLOUR AFTER THIS POINT IS YOUR DOUGH's WORST ENEMY.  Any time this dough touches raw flour after this point you are degrading it.  Raw flour after this point is not cooked... it just sticks to the dough, forms a chalk-like film on the dough, reduces browning, etc, etc.  Lightly oil your hands (don't flour them) and divide into 3 dough balls.  You now roll the balls in your oiled hands (now there's an idea ladies) rub them with oil so they don't get dry, get crusty and crack during the rise.  Place in a lightly oiled container, cover and let rise until 50% to 100% bulk rise is achieved.  You can do this at room temperature or you could have pre-heated your oven at 250 for a few minutes and then shut it off and place them inside for a faster rise.

After the rise, press the balls down (there's another idea) as shown in the photos. Now cover again and place in the fridge for an hour to condition.  (Now is when you fire up the oven with the stones in it at 550).  After an hour, remove the dough from the fridge, uncover and allow to come to room temp.  Secret here... If you like bubbles, stretch the dough cold before it comes to room temperature.  If you don't like bubble's allow to come to room temperature.  Why?  As I stated to Mr. know-it-all here who called me Pappa John or something, yeast has EVERYTHING to do with oven spring... IT IS NOT WATER VAPOR OR STEAM that causes dough to "SPRING".  It is yeast and their last fight to survive before they are incinerated.  As the temp in the dough hits their sweet spot, they start rockin' and rollin' without a clue that it is gonna get one heck of alot hotter.  Cold dough allows for a longer temp in their "sweet spot" for them to keep on rockin' & rollin' after the pie is placed in the oven.  Room temp dough cuts their rock-n-roll time back so they don't have the time to give ya those big crusty bubbles.  Learning anything here?

Your peel needs to be treated. Take soem flour and toss it on your peel.  Rub it in and then SCRAPE IT ALL OFF.  You only want to fill the little microscopic voids in the peel and use the flour to DRY it.  Now take your semolina flour...  WHICH YOU MUST HAVE.  Don't use corn meal and such.  Find semoliona flour and lightly dust your peel so it looks like a light snow dusting.  Corn mean contains corn oil and will burn while it imparts a corney flavor to your dough.     

Getting ready for the stretch... DO NOT THROW A LOAD OF FLOUR ON YOUR PREP SURFACE AND THEN THROW YOUR DOUGH BALL ON IN.  What did I say? FLOUR IS YOUR DOUGH's ENEMY AS SOON AS IT LEAVES THE MIXING BOWL.  LIGHTLY flour your surface and YOUR HANDS.  Now is when you flour the hands.  Remember when we oiled them earlier for the separation?  Now we flour them.  We want flour on the hands to minimize flour on the dough and oiled hands at this point just don't work with tossing and stretching.  Remember when we placed our plain finger in the dough and it sticked a little bit after 5 seconds?  Now that we have floured fingers it won't stick cause we aren't going to hold any part more than 5 seconds.   Spread the dough to an 8" circle on your prep surface.  Pick it up and begin stretching.  Stretching is an art that I can't describe but you'll get it with time.  Just think FISTS and no fingers.  If you have to use fingers you can hold the edges and allow the dough to drape on your prep area as you move your way around it like a clock.  It will be just fine.  Remember, you can't really be too thin but you can be too thick.  What looks like a thin membrane that you can almost see through will puff and cook to be a crispy 1/8th inch.

     


   


Offline Pizza Shark

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 27
  • I Love Pizza!
Shark's Toppings & Bake
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2006, 04:45:42 PM »
Now that we can make sauce & dough and get it on a peel... lets talk more secrets. 

550 degree oven... I mentioned in a prior post if you have an ole gas oven that heats from underneath (which I used to have the pleasure of owning before moving)  you are in a far better place than I.  Place your stone directly on the floor and preheat to 550. Your stone will easily achieve 650-700  as the heat from that burner has to transfer through the oven floor, through your stone and then make its way to thermostat.  Man I miss that ole gas oven.  For the rest of us electric oven owners, preheat at 550 for an hour then take your stone and move it to the top rack and turn the broiler on HIGH for 20 minutes of so.  Some ovens allow it others wont if the interior temp gets too high.  Whatever you do, don't go trying to circumnavigate your oven's safety features as "some" here have done... it just ain't worth it.  You can always leave the pie in for an extra minute and while ya won't have a smoking crust when you pull it out, you won't have a smoking pile of rubble left where your home used to be standing.  I have an old stone that I bought a long time ago and I have a new thicker stone.  I placed the thicker stone on the bottom rack and the thinner stone on the rack directly above to give me a 550 Brick oven base bake with 550 radiant heat from above that isn't lost when I open the oven to load my pizza.

Now we have the pie stretched and if we play with it much more it's gonna tear or stick to our hands.  What do we do... We lay it on that peel dusted with semolina flour NOT REGULAR FLOUR!  We have 60-90 seconds to lay sauce, cheese, toppings and get on that baking stone.  If your dough offers more than 90 seconds without sticking to your peel, your dough was probably too dry and you won't get the crisp crust & puff that a wet dough provides. 

Here we go... Dough on the peel... Follow it with that sauce... fast fast.. dump in the center and then spread outwards so the majority is near the outside.  You are "PAINTING THE PIZZA"  You are not sauceing it, you are not covering it, you are PAINTING and painting fast.  You are an artist and this is your medium.  Your pizza should look as though you swiped it with a red paint brush.  You should still see bee able to see lotsa dough.  Don't waste time trying to get the sauce even.. it will move, it will cook and it will do it's thing in the oven.  Speed is key as that wet dough and watery sauce are waiting for that 550 searing hot stone.  Take too long and your perfect membrane thin dough on that peel will tear when you try to slide it in and you are left with a smoking mess that ya have to sit back and allow to take it's course before you can scrape it off and toss it in the trash.  When I worked in Pizzaria "R" I watched lotsa pizza messes go up in smoke and steal hearth space until the mess could be cleanly pulled and thrown in the trash.  Learing Anything?  How about the Pizza Cookbook authors?   Learning anything?

Toppings.. NY Style pizza hates fresh toppings.  When you see Fresh toppings on the menu at ANY landmark New York pizzaria don't you ever think they are slicing onion and green pepper and mushrooms and tossing them on that pizza raw because THEY AREN'T.  One Pizza cook book I read mentioned that you should saute the mushrooms in a bit of oil to evaporate the moisture prior to placing on the pie but then went on and said to dice fresh green pepper and onion to throw on top.  It don't work that way.  If they looked at the prep table and felt all those "fresh ingredients" they wouldn't write such foolishness. That's why the microwave is out back and hidden from view and was probably pulled from the wall and hidden while these "authors" were in house watching pizza made. 

Dice your green pepper and onion and whatever other vegetable you want to put on your pie and then place it in your home 1100 watt microwave for 3-4 minutes.  You cook/boil all that water out of that mess because if you place fresh peppers and onions and such on a new york style pizza that already has a wet dough, watered-down sauce you are gonna end up with pizza soup on a crispy crust. As soon as ya cut it, there goes the crisp and the crust.  I would assume that every landmark pizzaria hides that microwave long before the Cookbook writer's scheduled meeting.  Yeah, they love the writers...  No, they are not going to share a single secret with them and I have a few more to share in the next post....





     
 

   

Offline Pizza Shark

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 27
  • I Love Pizza!
Pizza Shark's Other Secrets
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2006, 05:07:15 PM »
Secret #1:  Allow your pizza to "vent" after pulling it from the stone.  Place it on a cooling rack for 3 minutes before cutting and then cut it on a preforated pan that is layered with cheap paper towels.  That crust still wants to expell a great deal of trapped moisture and when ya cut it that grease wants to run right into the crust and ruin it.  Paper towels absorb the grease before it can seep into the crust. 
 
Secret #2:  Never serve your pizza to guests on anything but the cheapest paper plates you can buy.  You don't even want that wax coating on them.  Why do you get a "street" slice served on a paper plate? Ya think it is because it is cheap and you are only buying a slice, right?  Ok... How come you go to a great pizzaria and they serve your entire pie with a stack of paper plates slid slightly under the crust... Still cause paper is cheap?  No, It is because cheap paper plates absorb grease, water and steam.  Place a searing hot slice of fresh cut pizza loaded with roni on a ceramic plate and what do ya get?  Ya get pizza grease bleed that goes directly into the crust.  That's right...  The cheap paper plate is a vital part of NY style pizza.   Umm.. Did ya get that you pizza cook book writers?  LOL!  Learning anything?

Secret #3:  It is an art, not a sience.  Which is why I do not agree with many here who use such accurate measures with their dough recipes.  I respect the pursuit, I don't agree with the sience part of it.  I hope my post here provides you with something you can really use instead of complicated measurements and such.  It is just Water, Flour & Yeast fo rthe most part.  I baked these pizzas using ONLY ALL PURPOSE FLOUR to prove a point.  No cookbook, no posted recipe (even mine) is going to take you to pizza perfection.  It is an art that will never die.

I know.. where's the cross section...   

Here ya go.. Best cross-section is photographed by cutting a cold slice pizza.  Ymm.. Will this pass?

   

 

Offline scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3060
  • Age: 43
  • Location: boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
Re: Pizza Shark's Authentic New York Style - Photos - Challange Answered!
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2006, 02:11:05 AM »
Pizza Shark
I am so happy to hear that I don't have to dip my tomatoes in cold water any more. Looks like I am off to buy a food mill. 

Do you think that for the food mill to work properly the tomatoes need to be blanched for a few minutes like you do?  I blanch first for only a few seconds instead of your few minutes.


Also, I value your addition to the forum, especially the inside scoop on one of my best local pizzerias.     ;)   Thank you so much.   I do feel, though, that I have to mention that your pizza looks dried out.  It is probably because you are not comfortable with your new oven yet.   It could be that a higher hydration dough is now needed if you are going to use those longer bake times.


Offline tonymark

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 254
  • Location: Atlanta, Ga
Re: Pizza Shark's Authentic New York Style - Photos - Challange Answered!
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2006, 09:03:04 AM »
Shark,

What mill are you using?  Where did you purchase it?  What is the size of the holes in the mill plate you use?  I tried a food mill a while back and the seeds went right through.
Making Pizza is not cooking, it is Performance Art!

Offline Pizza Shark

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 27
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Pizza Shark's Authentic New York Style - Photos - Challange Answered!
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2006, 11:31:53 AM »
Regarding the dry look to the pizza... The last photo of the crust cross-section was taken the next day after the pizza sat on the preforated pan overnight on top of my stove.  Yeah, it does lose moisture and the grease solidifies.  I've tried to get photos of cross sections when the pizza was hot but the cutter smashes the crusts interior right where I make the cut and the cheese and such runs over a bit before I can get a good photo of the crust. 

The first two photos of the whole pies may look somewhat dry because I used fresh Mozz which seems to have a lower fat content compared to whole-milk brick mozz that leaves quite a bit of butterfat on top.  Maybe it has the same fat and it just isn't released because I place the fresh mozz on in big slices whereas I always shred the brick stuff.  I'm not sure.   

Also, a little secret I have just learned in the last few years... I never liked day-old NY style pizza.  I tried wraping it foil and putting it in my fridge & I tried leaving it unwrapped and putting it in my fridge but it never tasted the same reheated the next day, the crust was either soggy after wrapping or the toppings dry as a bone leaving uncovered.  It would burn in the toaster oven, dry out or turn to soup inthe microwave.

These days I leave the leftovers on the preforated pan on my stove overnight. I just lightly drape a piece of aluminum foil over it.  The next day when you lift the foil you will find a great deal of moisture condensed on it but it does keep the top relatively moist while maintaining a somewhat crispy crust that can be effectively reheated in a toaster oven.  I had forgotten my college days when I thought nothing of eating 2 and 3 day old pizza that sat in a box unrefridgerated.  I never got sick from it and when I did it was probably the amount of booze I had consumed, not the age of the pizza I ate.  So, I have never come down with food poisoning from leaving a pizza on the stove to cool and vent overnight and eat the next day again.  It makes all the difference and I no longer throw away pizza that I can't eat the same night I make it.

As far as the mill goes,  It is just a basic stainless steel food mill (I don't like aluminum parts that react with the acid in the tomatoes).  It came from one of those on-line kitchen stores and it came with three different size screens.  The brand is "Cuisipro".  For these pizzas I used the largest screen which does allow seeds through but seeds don't bother me and lotsa high end hand squeeze their tomatoes which leaves all the seeds on the pie.  I basicly like the large mesh because I am lazy and it results in less cranking time. 

I think it is very necessary to par-boil the tomatoes for a while to soften the skins as well as the interiors.  If you look at the photo where I then dumped them into a strainer after boiling some broke apart when they hit they were so soft.  No big deal as ya just lose interior water when they break open and you are gonna have to boil it off later anyway.  Fresh, uncooked tomatoes in a mill mean you will be cranking and smashing and cranking until you're arms look like Popeye's after a while. You're gonna cook the tomatoes anyway, you're gonna spoon the acid off, so why not just cook the things pretty good and make your time with the mill easier.  The longer you cook them, the easier it will be to move to smaller screens in the mill if you want the seeds out of your sauce without your arms burning from the endless cranking.  I used to have a great little hand crank mill that was made in Italy and sold at quite a few online kitchen places... It stood about a food high with a hopper on top and a base that could be clamped to a table.  It would send the pulp and sauce down a little shoot into a pot sitting on a chair while it spat every single seed and the skin out the back into a bowl.  The thing did a great job but it was such a pain to clean that I decided to go with something easier and am very pleased with the results.  I like cooking not cleaning.

Another hint... Never place fresh basil on top of your pizza before baking it. In the sauce is one thing but on top they will burn, turn black and the oil in the leaves will get very bitter.  Allways pull your hot pie from the oven and then immediately sprinkle your whole basil leaves on top.  Simply take a fork and press them down into the hot toppings & grease a bit.  They will have wilted and released their flavor over the pie by the time you cut the pizza.

All the best,

Pizza Shark   

Offline Pizza Shark

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 27
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Pizza Shark's Authentic New York Style - Photos - Challange Answered!
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2006, 12:14:27 PM »
Oh Scott,

I did make one mistake regarding Pizzaria "R" spicey drizzle oil... It wasn't a 90/10 blend of canolla/olive it was a 60/40.  I was thinking about it and a vision of the 60/40 jug popped into my head.  Personally, I'd use 100% EVOO, I'd take the smashed Garlic & dry spices (oregano,basil,crushed red pepper, salt) and heat them in a 1/2 cup of oil for a while to release their flavors.  Then I would add that to more oil and then the grated romano to that after it had cooled. They never heated anything which I could never understand.  As far as the sugar and salt goes they added, I never did see it dissolve in oil but they allways shook the bottles before drizzling so maybe it didn't have to.  I'd try superfine sugar & diamond superfine salt instead of the table stuff they used.

Offline scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3060
  • Age: 43
  • Location: boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
Re: Pizza Shark's Authentic New York Style - Photos - Challange Answered!
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2006, 12:30:17 PM »
thanks shark.  I already had the recipe right except for the sugar and using 100% olive oil.  I am excited to see what the sugar will bring to the flavor of the drizzle.

I have tried light cooking and not cooking and they do have their own unique distinct flavors.  I like them both.


Do you remember the brand of their ricotta?


Offline Pizza Shark

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 27
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Pizza Shark's Authentic New York Style - Photos - Challange Answered!
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2006, 03:47:52 PM »
It wasn't anything fancy - It just came in big white tubs stamped with Sysco Foodservice.  That's why I think most everyone here already makes better pies right at home. I was surprised that the place could get Best of Boston so many years when they used canned sauce even if it was proprietary by Stanislause, nothing special dough, just full strength flour, water, salt, yeast, and cottonseed oil that was kneeded for around 30 minutes (I kid you not!) portioned and raised in the walk-ins.  It was then used over a 3-4 day period.  Hormel pepperoni and flash-frozen sausage pellets that looked like rabbit turds.  Even their special oil was a 60/40 blend to keep it cheap!  What they had was alota history, great technique, a hot/dry oven (though still only set at 550 degrees),  and GREAT CHEESE!  I mean I think that aged Empire whole milk Mozz covered up alot of short commings.  That stuff was expensive and they aged it until it turned a light yellow.  I haven't been there since the early 90's.  Has anything changed? 

I think Santarpio's in East Boston made a much better pie as long as ya could dodge the bullets when the wiseguys started knocking each other off outside the front door! Is that still there?

PIZZA SHARK 

Offline scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3060
  • Age: 43
  • Location: boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
Re: Pizza Shark's Authentic New York Style - Photos - Challange Answered!
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2006, 05:13:57 PM »
shark, santarpios must have gone down hill.  The crust there is often like cardboard where regina still retains some softness.  They both use Empire.

Santarpios uses a good sauce, the pastene kitchen ready (slightly chunky), but that is about the only thing "better" on their pie. Problem is they don't really use much of it.  Regina has a good balance most of the time.

Empire might have changed.  It is no longer an expensive cheese, in fact it is one of the absolute cheapest you can find.  Many (sorrento,poly-o,grande,all the saputo's) are actually more expensive now.

Still good cheese though.

Offline Pizza Shark

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 27
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Pizza Shark's Authentic New York Style - Photos - Challange Answered!
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2006, 05:33:10 PM »
Unbelievable!  Geeze I am outta touch. I guess Empire musta gone down hill since it was purchased by Great Lakes Cheese Co.  They used to be great... Is it the same Empire Cheese?  The whole milk bricks for foodservice?  It was the Cuba,  NY Empire Cheese plant they purchased... All they make is Mozz. & Prov.  Used to be fantastic!   

http://www.greatlakescheese.com/locations.aspx

Empire Cheese
4520 Haskell Road
Cuba, NY  14727
Phone: 585-968-1552
FAX: 585-968-2660
E-mail: Sleggs@greatlakescheese.com
Web Site: http://www.greatlakescheese.com

Empire Cheese, Inc. is a wholly owned subsidiary of Great Lakes Cheese Co., Inc., Hiram, Ohio.


Oh well, if it's the same forget everything I said about Empire Cheese!

Shark




Offline scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3060
  • Age: 43
  • Location: boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
Re: Pizza Shark's Authentic New York Style - Photos - Challange Answered!
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2006, 05:40:09 PM »
Shark, it is still excellent cheese.

It can now be found under both the great lakes, and the empire name depending on the foodservice provider.  There are also many providers that use it as their "house" brand so it doesn't say empire or great lakes.  Carra Donna is one such place.  Different labels, same cheese.  Still used at many of the best boston pizzerias.

Really good.  Don't scratch what you said.

I am just saying that it is not expensive.

Offline Pizza Shark

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 27
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Pizza Shark's Authentic New York Style - Photos - Challange Answered!
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2006, 06:00:34 PM »
What are you using now for cheese, what is your fav?

Scott... BTW... since you live in Boston... I used to buy all of my pizza supplies for home at a pizza supply house in S. Boston... The name was "Samos" I believe and it was in the yellow pages. Give a call there and ask for Sophia.  She is usually there or her sister is.  Old family pizza supply business.  They are such nice ladies and will let you roam through the warehouse and freezers and pick out whatever you want.  Plus, they were open on Saturday which made it easy.  Cash & carry at the prices the pizzarias pay!  After I met them I invested in a very large chest cooler! I loaded up the gyro meat and the soft frozen gyro bread, Tyson breaded chicken tenders by the case, Man what a deal!  Tell them their old customers who moved to VA still have not had a kid... She'll know EXACTLY who you are talking about.

Well worth the trip!

Shark 

Offline scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3060
  • Age: 43
  • Location: boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
Re: Pizza Shark's Authentic New York Style - Photos - Challange Answered!
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2006, 06:37:17 PM »
shark, thank you so much.  I will visit your old friends.

My favorite cheese is buffalo mozzarella.

Offline pizzoid

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 168
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Cape Cod, MA
  • A Hideous, Addictive, substance dependency
Re: Pizza Shark's Authentic New York Style - Photos - Challange Answered!
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2006, 02:45:28 PM »
What are you using now for cheese, what is your fav?

Scott... BTW... since you live in Boston... I used to buy all of my pizza supplies for home at a pizza supply house in S. Boston... The name was "Samos" I believe and it was in the yellow pages. Give a call there and ask for Sophia.  She is usually there or her sister is.  Old family pizza supply business.  They are such nice ladies and will let you roam through the warehouse and freezers and pick out whatever you want.  Plus, they were open on Saturday which made it easy.  Cash & carry at the prices the pizzarias pay!  After I met them I invested in a very large chest cooler! I loaded up the gyro meat and the soft frozen gyro bread, Tyson breaded chicken tenders by the case, Man what a deal!  Tell them their old customers who moved to VA still have not had a kid... She'll know EXACTLY who you are talking about.

Well worth the trip!

Shark 

Not sure I'd bother with Samos. I started with the one nearer the foodmart on Wareham St., the gal there was incredibly rude to me, couldn't rell me what they carried, what hours they had on Saturday, and was more interested in dumping me to get to the other call.

I finally found the other location on Tremont, got Sophia, but she didn't seen very interested, and gave me some other distributors names.

And I'm trying to set up wholoesale accounts for a food service operation!

- Al

Offline JerryMac

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 279
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Pizza Shark's Authentic New York Style - Photos - Challange Answered!
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2006, 09:00:44 AM »
Shark,

Agree with the "Art not Science" part 100%  ;D

See some of my old posts and Pies  :chef:

Keep up the good work  ;)

Jerry

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21171
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
I have been meaning for some time to try Pizza Shark’s NY style dough recipe, and finally got around to doing so yesterday.

Since I had no idea how Pizza Shark measures out the volumes of flour and water called for in his recipe, I did my best to arrive at a dough formulation that I could specify using baker’s percents. Using the new expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_tools.html, I came up with the following dough formulation, for one 14” pizza:

Flour (100%):
Water (65.6553%):
ADY (1.11988%):
Salt (1.77012%):
Olive Oil (2.21967%):
Honey (0.86913%):
Total (171.6341%):
215.14 g  |  7.59 oz | 0.47 lbs
141.25 g  |  4.98 oz | 0.31 lbs
2.41 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.64 tsp | 0.21 tbsp
3.81 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.68 tsp | 0.23 tbsp
4.78 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.06 tsp | 0.35 tbsp
1.87 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.27 tsp | 0.09 tbsp
369.25 g | 13.02 oz | 0.81 lbs | TF = N/A

In my case, I used King Arthur Sir Lancelot high-gluten flour. The procedures used to make the dough were just about identical to what Pizza Shark recommended in Reply 2 in this thread except that I modified the times somewhat because I was making only a single dough ball, not three as yielded by Pizza Shark’s original recipe. I used a bowl residue compensation of 1.5%, which turned out to be right on the money in that it produced a finished dough weight of about 12.90 ounces, or just a bit over the amount without the bowl residue compensation (12.83 ounces). I estimated that the thickness factor for my particular version of Pizza Shark’s dough recipe was 0.0833591, which would represent a “thin” NY style, of the so-called “elite” variety. At every step of the way during the dough preparation, the dough exhibited the characteristics and effects as described by Pizza Shark in Reply 2.

Because of the high level of yeast used (about 1.12% ADY), which is more in line with the level used for a “few-hours”, or “emergency” dough, and because of the relatively high ambient room temperature, at around 77° F, I anticipated that the dough would rise very quickly once placed on my kitchen counter to rise. And, indeed, that is what happened, with the dough doubling in volume in about 40 minutes. In fact, the gases of fermentation were powerful enough to blow the tightly-fit lid completely off of my glass Pyrex bowl. After doubling, the dough then went into the refrigerator, as recommended by Pizza Shark, for about an hour.

The dough was then brought to room temperature for about an hour, shaped, dressed (in a basic pepperoni style) and baked. The dough was extremely extensible, so much so, in fact, that I had to exercise great care to prevent the dough from developing thin spots or tearing as I shaped it into a skin, and from sticking to the peel. No doubt, the high hydration was a factor (in retrospect maybe it was too high), as well as the effects of a short fermentation time.

I used only one pizza stone to bake the pizza, not two stones as recommended by Pizza Shark, since I was making only one pizza and, hence, did not need the heat retention of two stones to bake multiple pizzas. My pizza stone was placed at the lowest oven rack position and preheated for about an hour at around 500-525° F. After about 6 minutes of baking on the pizza stone, I moved the pizza to the next-to-the-top oven rack position for about a minute or two of further baking, for further top crust browning.

The photos below show the finished pizza. The crust had decent oven spring and modest coloring, and the overall pizza tasted fine, but the crust and crumb did not have the complexity of flavors and texture that come with long, cold fermentation, or even a long room temperature fermentation. The crust was also noticeably sweet, most likely due to the use of honey, which undoubtedly remained relatively unaltered in the dough during the short total fermentation time of about two hours and 40 minutes, including the warm-up time on the bench. These results were expected inasmuch as such a short fermentation period does not permit the enzymes and bacteria to do their job fully and completely and bring out the best features in the dough and crust. Overall, I would say that the dough recipe is in line with other “few hours”, or “emergency” dough recipes that I used before and reported elsewhere on the forum. To that extent, the dough recipe serves a useful purpose, even though my personal preference is for doughs that have been subjected to long fermentation times.

Peter
« Last Edit: May 26, 2007, 10:27:47 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline BenLee

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 171
  • I Love Pizza!
that sure is a great looking sauce.  I have been meaning to get a food mill to do that.  Right now, I cut the tomatoes in half, and squeeze out the seeds and the acidic goo in the center of them.  I then place them face down on a pan and broil the skins so I can peel them off (I peel them when they cool down).  I then put them in the food processor to get the right consistency.