"Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's

[tjkoko]

...The crust to me is a standard sicilian baked in a black steel pan, nothing special in that regard except- there is a light layer of hard cheese (tastes like parmesan to me) baked on top of the crust. The baked crust is removed from the oven, the remaining "soft" cheese is added & then the sauce (tastes very marinara like to me) is put on top of the cheese, and the pizza is cut & served. It was obvious to me that the soft cheese & sauce had not been baked at all, no signs of burning or cooking in any way. The topping of the pizza with the fresh shredded cheese after it is baked is similar to the Ohio valley pizza style. This is a sicilian style that shows up a little bit in Pittsburgh and some of the eastern Ohio River communities. Dicarlos is one of the small Ohio Valley chains that does this and they top it with provolone after the crust comes out of the oven, then cut & serve. The crust is baked with the sauce on it first.

If I was trying to duplicate Buddy's pizza, here is how I would do it:

1. Prepare the Sicilian dough, place in well oiled pan and stretch, rise, stretch to fit pan, rise again.

2. Top the crust evenly with finely grated parmesan being extra careful to build up the sides slightly where the crust meets the pan to get the wispy "stand up" crust on the edges that every Buddy's pizza has.

3. Bake at 450 or hotter for 10-15 mins until the parmesan turns brown & crisp around the edges

4. Pull the baked crust & immediately top with shredded soft cheese & sauce, then cut & serve.

...
steel_baker

My mind is really in a spin here.  So this poster makes his sicilian without baking both the top layer of cheese and sauce!!!  The sauce therefore must already be preheated at the time it's poured onto the cheese layer.  

[Saturday Coffee]

Sauce and cheese are baked in the oven on the pizza at Shield's (and I am sure at Buddy's too).                 

[Pete-zza]

Yesterday, I sent an email to Buddy's in which I expressed concern (1) about the long delay in their completion of their Nutrition page at http://www.buddyspizza.com/nutrition.asp (which has been idle for a long time) and (2) my personal concern, as one who is attentive to his diet, about the potentially high levels of fat, sodium and cholesterol in pizza cheeses and, in particular, the cheese(s) used by Buddy's to make their square pizzas. This morning, I received the following reply:

Peter,
 
Thank  you for taking the time to email us and for your inquiry.  We use Wisconsin Brick cheese for our pizza. 
We have alternatives available at all of our locations:  Fat Free Mozzarella & Lactose Free Veggie Soy Cheese.
We additionally are offering at our Farmington Hills location, a casein free cheese.
 
We are still working on our Nutrition page and it may take up to a year to complete.
 
Have a great day.

Given the completeness of the response, and particularly in pointing out all of the alternatives to the brick cheese for the square pizzas, I would think that Buddy's would have mentioned cheddar cheese or hard grated cheeses to the extent that they would be used in making their square pizzas. Cheddar, in particular, has higher fat levels than most pizza cheeses, including mozzarella cheese, so, given my expressed concern over fat levels, I think they would have mentioned cheddar cheese if it were used on their square pizzas. I might add that Buddy's uses a brick/cheddar cheese blend for its chicken fajita Specialty Pizza. They also offer a variety of cheese options for their sandwiches. My inquiry was limited to the square pizzas.

I have not had a chance to compare the fat, sodium and cholesterol levels of brick cheese. That is where the nutrition information would have been helpful in deciphering what Buddy's does.

On a related matter, our regular followers of this thread may recall that at one time Buddy's menu had a symbol indicating that a cheese supplier to Buddy's was Foremost Farms. That logo appeared in the 104/04/09 version of their menu at http://www.buddyspizza.com/documents/WebsiteMenu7.2.10.pdf. Today, I checked the latest Buddy's menu, designated 104/03/11, at http://www.buddyspizza.com/documents/BuddysMenu.pdf, and the Foremost Farms logo is no longer there. Of course, that does not mean that Buddy's is no longer being sourced by Foremost Farms but it does raise the possibility that they have changed suppliers. I suppose that it is also possible that Buddy's used something other than brick cheeses from Foremost before restating their use of brick cheese for their current square pizzas.

Peter

[Pete-zza]

I took advantage of my recent exchange with Buddy's to inquire as to the source of the tomatoes for the sauce for their square pizzas. Originally, the Buddy's website mentioned that they were using Stanislaus tomatoes but, for some reason, that information no longer appeared at the new version of their website, which has been substantially revamped. In my followup email, I mentioned that I had hoped that they were still using the Stanislaus tomato products and that I had witnessed that other pizza places were using sauces with all kinds of chemicals in them, which I found distasteful. To allay my concerns about quality as I expressed them, I received the following reply:

We have not changed any of our core ingredients for sauces. Our website has changed to offer more information than we had before.

Peter

[Saturday Coffee]

Do you know if Loui's Pizza have any nutrition information?

[Pete-zza]

Do you know if Loui's Pizza have any nutrition information?

Saturday Coffee,

Places like Loui's (http://louispizza.net/) with only a single location almost never have nutrition information. It would even be unusual for a place like Buddy's, with only nine locations (I think a few of them are takeout only), to offer nutrition information on their pizzas. These days, most nutrition information is put together using specialized software. There is greater pressure on the big, high profile chains to offer nutrition information, although not all of them (e.g., Sbarro) do.

Peter

[tjkoko]

Dice
...No prebake, just pile everything on and into the oven.  Remember my formula is without a scale at this point so my hydration % is prob off a bit.  Having said that, pick a number between 70 and 75% and you should be in the ballpark.  At "my" 70% 15 mins at 450 baked up right, and at 75% 15 mins at 475....
Good Luck!
Hog

Hmmmm, increased hydration = increased baking time (no prebake).  Good rule of thumb (or index finger pointed upwards  ).

[tjkoko]

Hello everyone.

First off, I have to commend every poster in this thread....
I Have been around the world, several times. I have even had pizza in Italy, the birth place of pizza I guess, but it does not compare to that sweet, not too thick, not to flat, square piece of heaven, that is Buddy's pizza, from Detroit.
Most all pizza I have had, has been good, but some should not even be called pizza.  
...
Thanks,
-Deano

Actually a documentary on tv stated that pizza's birthplace is the middle east with their unleavened () flatbread topped with veggies, cheese and perhaps meat.

[tjkoko]

Hi VICIII,

I use Stanislaus sauce, but the truth is it’s hard to find.  If you have Restaurant Depot near you, you can pick it up there.  All you need is a business license for anything and they will sell it to you.  If you don’t want to go through all the hassle, I like Hunt’s crushed tomatoes.
With Hunt’s you will need to add a little more sugar.  I use brown sugar.  Not sure why, but it taste better.  I always add a little Hunts tomato paste to keep the consistency nice.  Crushed tomatoes is very watery and I do not cook my sauce before putting it on the pizza....

You add brown sugar to Hunt's crushed tomatoes because it tastes better.  Perhaps it's because brown sugar has molasses added to it!

[Pete-zza]

For those who are interested, I believe I have solved the mystery as to who is the supplier of the blue steel pans to Buddy's (and others who sell the Detroit square pan pizzas). See the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13687.msg137011.html#msg137011.

Peter

[gschwim]

I received, only days ago, my blue steel pans from P.A. Products - one 8" x 10", one 10" x 14", so I can confirm that they will sell individual pans.  And yes, they are "folded corner" pans.  The corners are fold and then the edges are wrapped around a thick rectangular wire to give the pan rigidity.

Which is great, especially for commercial operations, as the pans are strong, but cheap.  Total cost of both pans, about $18.  I think that included shipping (to NYC), but if it didn't, the shipping couldn't have cost much.

It was also obvious that, as someone pointed out, the pans are actually intended to be used as parts bins.  Whoever thought of using them for cooking was very smart as a pan manufactured and marketed for cooking certainly would cost more.

Gene

[PizzaHog]

Hey Gene
Glad to see ya back and in the thread you started us all off on!
Question please.  Are the pans you received the same as these, with the wire exposed on the corners?
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg107574.html#msg107574
Looking forward to your posts when you bake one of these up.
Hog

[Pete-zza]

Hog,

I will also be interested in the answer also since I was told that the Dover Parkersburg blue steel pans such as shown at http://www.doverparkersburg.com/products/utility_items.html are the same as the ones at P.A. Products. I even went so far as to blow up the photo of Mary holding the pans at http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/ArtAndPhoto-Fronts/COVER/080228/080228-pizza-vmed-3p.grid-4x2.jpg by 400% to see if I could spot the wire at the front right corner of the pan in her right hand. I couldn't tell if I was seeing a wire or a light reflection.

Peter

[gschwim]

Pete,

For what it's worth - and with my own, just-purchased pans for reference - I definitely see a wire, with some daylight poking through the opening, on the farthest lower-left corner of the photo.  I also, where the light is poking through, can see the thinness of the metal walls and finally, I clearly see "folds" on all the two foremost corners in the photo and would assume that where there are folds, there is wire.  For all I can tell, these are the exact, or at least the exact same type of, pan that I have.

Hog,

Yes, they are the same, or at least they look the same.

Gene

[Saturday Coffee]

Pete,

For what it's worth - and with my own, just-purchased pans for reference - I definitely see a wire, with some daylight poking through the opening, on the farthest lower-left corner of the photo.  I also, where the light is poking through, can see the thinness of the metal walls and finally, I clearly see "folds" on all the two foremost corners in the photo and would assume that where there are folds, there is wire.  For all I can tell, these are the exact, or at least the exact same type of, pan that I have.

Hog,

Yes, they are the same, or at least they look the same.

Gene

My pan is exactly the same (or a clone) with the wire and folds.  It was purchased for me at Roselli's on the East Side (Detroit suburbs) somewhere, maybe in Roseville.

[timrich10]

Heres my latest Buddy's replica. Included a pic of some basic ingredients and a pan I found at Wal-Mart.

[gschwim]

That looks really good.  What recipe, including baking time and temperature, did you use?  What kind of cheese is the Tillamook?

[timrich10]

Thanks Gschwim,
I'm using Pizzahogs recipe from post 199 of this topic for the basics, add water until it looks right, a very tacky dough. I bake at 475 degrees for 5 minutes on lowest rack and about 8-10 mins. on middle till done. Tillamook cheese is medium white cheddar. Family say it tastes as good as it looks. Makes me feel as though I'm doing something right as we are from Detroit.

Tim

[PizzaHog]

Picture perfect pie Tim!
I can't make out the brand on the pepperoni stick in your photo, but it kinda looks like one of a larger diameter I have seen locally but never tried.  If you wouldn't mind, what brand was it and did you like it?
Well done,
Hog

[timrich10]

Pepperoni is Molinari & Sons in San Francisco. It is large diameter 2 1/2". Taste is good, more flavor than the store packaged brands but not like Buddy's. When I use it in my pizza you can tell it's there, spicy and more pronounced than Buddy's pepperoni. I call it my Buddy's variant. I like it as a snack with crackers

Tim