Author Topic: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's  (Read 213401 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #325 on: April 26, 2011, 04:34:59 PM »
Do you know if Loui's Pizza have any nutrition information?

Saturday Coffee,

Places like Loui's (http://louispizza.net/) with only a single location almost never have nutrition information. It would even be unusual for a place like Buddy's, with only nine locations (I think a few of them are takeout only), to offer nutrition information on their pizzas. These days, most nutrition information is put together using specialized software. There is greater pressure on the big, high profile chains to offer nutrition information, although not all of them (e.g., Sbarro) do.

Peter


Offline tjkoko

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #326 on: April 27, 2011, 07:19:50 AM »
Dice
...No prebake, just pile everything on and into the oven.  Remember my formula is without a scale at this point so my hydration % is prob off a bit.  Having said that, pick a number between 70 and 75% and you should be in the ballpark.  At "my" 70% 15 mins at 450 baked up right, and at 75% 15 mins at 475....
Good Luck!
Hog


Hmmmm, increased hydration = increased baking time (no prebake).  Good rule of thumb (or index finger pointed upwards  :-\).
Home bread baker for 10 years.

Offline tjkoko

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #327 on: April 27, 2011, 07:26:55 AM »
Hello everyone.

First off, I have to commend every poster in this thread....
I Have been around the world, several times. I have even had pizza in Italy, the birth place of pizza I guess, but it does not compare to that sweet, not too thick, not to flat, square piece of heaven, that is Buddy's pizza, from Detroit.
Most all pizza I have had, has been good, but some should not even be called pizza.  >:D
...
Thanks,
-Deano


Actually a documentary on tv stated that pizza's birthplace is the middle east with their unleavened (???) flatbread topped with veggies, cheese and perhaps meat.
Home bread baker for 10 years.

Offline tjkoko

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #328 on: April 27, 2011, 07:41:41 AM »
Hi VICIII,

I use Stanislaus sauce, but the truth is itís hard to find.  If you have Restaurant Depot near you, you can pick it up there.  All you need is a business license for anything and they will sell it to you.  If you donít want to go through all the hassle, I like Huntís crushed tomatoes.
With Huntís you will need to add a little more sugar.  I use brown sugar.  Not sure why, but it taste better.  I always add a little Hunts tomato paste to keep the consistency nice.  Crushed tomatoes is very watery and I do not cook my sauce before putting it on the pizza....

You add brown sugar to Hunt's crushed tomatoes because it tastes better.  Perhaps it's because brown sugar has molasses added to it!
Home bread baker for 10 years.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #329 on: April 29, 2011, 10:53:28 AM »
For those who are interested, I believe I have solved the mystery as to who is the supplier of the blue steel pans to Buddy's (and others who sell the Detroit square pan pizzas). See the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13687.msg137011.html#msg137011.

Peter

Offline gschwim

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #330 on: April 29, 2011, 07:53:36 PM »
I received, only days ago, my blue steel pans from P.A. Products - one 8" x 10", one 10" x 14", so I can confirm that they will sell individual pans.  And yes, they are "folded corner" pans.  The corners are fold and then the edges are wrapped around a thick rectangular wire to give the pan rigidity.

Which is great, especially for commercial operations, as the pans are strong, but cheap.  Total cost of both pans, about $18.  I think that included shipping (to NYC), but if it didn't, the shipping couldn't have cost much.

It was also obvious that, as someone pointed out, the pans are actually intended to be used as parts bins.  Whoever thought of using them for cooking was very smart as a pan manufactured and marketed for cooking certainly would cost more.

Gene

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #331 on: May 01, 2011, 12:31:13 PM »
Hey Gene
Glad to see ya back and in the thread you started us all off on!
Question please.  Are the pans you received the same as these, with the wire exposed on the corners?
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg107574.html#msg107574
Looking forward to your posts when you bake one of these up.
Hog

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #332 on: May 01, 2011, 01:00:25 PM »
Hog,

I will also be interested in the answer also since I was told that the Dover Parkersburg blue steel pans such as shown at http://www.doverparkersburg.com/products/utility_items.html are the same as the ones at P.A. Products. I even went so far as to blow up the photo of Mary holding the pans at http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/ArtAndPhoto-Fronts/COVER/080228/080228-pizza-vmed-3p.grid-4x2.jpg by 400% to see if I could spot the wire at the front right corner of the pan in her right hand. I couldn't tell if I was seeing a wire or a light reflection.

Peter

Offline gschwim

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #333 on: May 01, 2011, 01:46:52 PM »
Pete,

For what it's worth - and with my own, just-purchased pans for reference - I definitely see a wire, with some daylight poking through the opening, on the farthest lower-left corner of the photo.  I also, where the light is poking through, can see the thinness of the metal walls and finally, I clearly see "folds" on all the two foremost corners in the photo and would assume that where there are folds, there is wire.  For all I can tell, these are the exact, or at least the exact same type of, pan that I have.

Hog,

Yes, they are the same, or at least they look the same.

Gene
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 01:51:03 PM by gschwim »


Offline Saturday Coffee

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #334 on: May 01, 2011, 02:28:25 PM »
Pete,

For what it's worth - and with my own, just-purchased pans for reference - I definitely see a wire, with some daylight poking through the opening, on the farthest lower-left corner of the photo.  I also, where the light is poking through, can see the thinness of the metal walls and finally, I clearly see "folds" on all the two foremost corners in the photo and would assume that where there are folds, there is wire.  For all I can tell, these are the exact, or at least the exact same type of, pan that I have.

Hog,

Yes, they are the same, or at least they look the same.

Gene


My pan is exactly the same (or a clone) with the wire and folds.  It was purchased for me at Roselli's on the East Side (Detroit suburbs) somewhere, maybe in Roseville.







Offline timrich10

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #335 on: May 13, 2011, 11:12:49 PM »
Heres my latest Buddy's replica. Included a pic of some basic ingredients and a pan I found at Wal-Mart.


Offline gschwim

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #336 on: May 13, 2011, 11:49:32 PM »
That looks really good.  What recipe, including baking time and temperature, did you use?  What kind of cheese is the Tillamook?
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 11:56:12 PM by gschwim »

Offline timrich10

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #337 on: May 14, 2011, 12:38:51 AM »
Thanks Gschwim,
I'm using Pizzahogs recipe from post 199 of this topic for the basics, add water until it looks right, a very tacky dough. I bake at 475 degrees for 5 minutes on lowest rack and about 8-10 mins. on middle till done. Tillamook cheese is medium white cheddar. Family say it tastes as good as it looks. Makes me feel as though I'm doing something right as we are from Detroit.

Tim

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #338 on: May 15, 2011, 01:22:07 PM »
Picture perfect pie Tim!
I can't make out the brand on the pepperoni stick in your photo, but it kinda looks like one of a larger diameter I have seen locally but never tried.  If you wouldn't mind, what brand was it and did you like it?
Well done,
Hog

Offline timrich10

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #339 on: May 15, 2011, 08:59:00 PM »
Pepperoni is Molinari & Sons in San Francisco. It is large diameter 2 1/2". Taste is good, more flavor than the store packaged brands but not like Buddy's. When I use it in my pizza you can tell it's there, spicy and more pronounced than Buddy's pepperoni. I call it my Buddy's variant. I like it as a snack with crackers

Tim

Offline balthisar

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #340 on: May 30, 2011, 09:01:48 PM »
Heres my latest Buddy's replica. Included a pic of some basic ingredients and a pan I found at Wal-Mart.
That is an excellent looking pie!

I'm looking into cheese-making now. Since my earlier posts, I've made my pre-trip to China, and the cheese isn't looking good. So, two new skills to take with me.

Offline Clive At Five

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #341 on: May 31, 2011, 09:06:49 AM »
I tried making this pie this weekend and have a couple take-away questions...

First of all, the sticking cheese was a major issue. I used a CM Bakalon pan (non-stick, annodized aluminum) and I even lubed with a light layer of crisco... yet, it was near impossible to get off. I had to soak the pan for several hours... So How much Crisco do y'all use? Seeing as there was a puddle of grease atop the pizza already (hey, not totally complaining ;) ) I'm hesitant to use more, but I will if I have to. I'm also wondering if I cooked it for a bit too long...

Secondly, pure sharp white cheddar was a little too tangy for my tastes. I understand the white cheddar is a requirement for the golden brown edge, but what's the opinion on using a 50/50 white cheddar / motz blend? I don't want the edge to get too dark.

Third, a piece of advice... coming from experimenting with the PH clone, it was hard to use so little oil. For those tempted to use more, DON'T! The bottom of my crust was actually a bit under-crispy due to too much oil. Combined with the grease from the cheese, there will be plenty of crisping-liquid in the pan!

Thanks for your feedback. Pics next time, I promise.

-Clive
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 04:35:00 PM by Clive At Five »


Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #342 on: June 11, 2011, 11:47:41 AM »
Hey Clive
The only fix for the cheese welding itself to the pan I have found is to use a super well seasoned non stick pan, same as the pizzaria's famous for these pies do, and of course never wash them once they are coated.  To get the sides seasoned, I ran the pan upside down thru the oven a bunch so the oil would run "down" the sides.  Made quite a mess and stunk up the house before I figured out I needed some foil below to catch any drip off.  Doh!  An employee at a Buddy's carry out location told me they oil up and run new pans thru the ovens continually for a week before their first use, and I believe it.  I too have tried my high dollar non stick pans and had the same result as you.  In a pinch, I have used a 30 year old cast iron frying pan for these and that worked suprisingly well.   
Yes, pure white cheddar oils off a ton, and I frequently blend it with mozz or whatever.  You can still use just the cheddar on the very outer edge and throw the rest of the blend in the center, or just mix it together and have at it.  The edge is still mostly golden for me this way although there are some black specks thrown in.  Guess it depends on the mozz so see what you prefer.
Agree the amount of oil in the pan is important.  Now that my pans are so well seasoned it takes very little oil to get a good fried crisp going with the bottom not being greasy, and the crisco step is no longer necessary. 
Hog   

Offline Clive At Five

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #343 on: June 12, 2011, 01:02:57 AM »
Thanks for the feedback on the seasoned pans! I've been working on building up a nice coat on my deep dish rounds, so I will do the same for my Sicilian as well! I generally like the flavor it gives anyway!

As for technique, I've just been baking at 400 deg F, brushing the sides every ten minutes. Sufficient, you think?

-Clive

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #344 on: June 12, 2011, 09:25:33 AM »
As for technique, I've just been baking at 400 deg F, brushing the sides every ten minutes. Sufficient, you think?
-Clive

Should be, and as I recall that is pretty much what I did, with a higher temp cycle and the upside down thing thrown in every now and then.  Once it looks like it is about 30 years old you should be good to go!
Hog

Offline longcommutes

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #345 on: June 24, 2011, 10:19:42 PM »
To PizzaHog and all the others who contributed to the reverse engineering of the Detroit Style pizza I want to give you a HUGE Thumbs up and a big Thank You. My pizzas using the recipe listed on post 199 have passed the taste test of several picky Detroiters (my parents) that grew up on this style of pizza.  They liked my pies soo much they said they no longer have to bring any back when they visits Detroit because they can now simply just come to my house.  

Background:  I grew up in Warren (11 mile between Hoover and Schoenherr) and went away to college in 1987 and have only been back to Michigan a handful of times since then.  However, every time I did/do get back to the Detroit area I have to get my fix of Detroit style pizza at either Loui's or Buddy's (Loui's is my favorite).  Unfortunately out here in San Diego, California no one makes Detroit Style and now that my parents are out here in CA, I rarely get back to Detroit (which means very long periods between my Detroit pizza experiences).  My wife finally got sick of me complaining about how much I miss Detroit Style pizza that she said why don't you see if you can find a recipe on the internet.  So I found this site over a year ago and have been checking in on its progress.  I knew the pans would be key and I finally received my pans a couple of weeks ago and have been patiently seasoning them.  

Here are pictures of my first pie.  (I used a bit more sauce and New Zealand White Cheddar from Trader Joe's).  I did cook it for an extra 5 minutes at 475 since I put double the sauce on top (which was a bit too much but the 6 oz just looked too skimpy) and like a crispier crust.  Everyone loved it and now I can get my Detroit pizza fix anytime I want.  My next goal is to fool around and attempt a whole grain version since I have gotten into to grinding my own grain.  

Thanks again for all the hard work on this thread,
Mike

  
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 10:21:58 PM by longcommutes »

Offline tjkoko

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #346 on: June 24, 2011, 10:26:19 PM »
GooD STUFF!!!!!!!!!
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Offline Saturday Coffee

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #347 on: June 25, 2011, 09:48:42 PM »
Every time I see this thread pop as unread I become homesick for a fix of Loui's or Buddy's. If I could see in to the kitchen of any pizzeria and watch pizzas being made I would like to see Louis Tourtois of Loui's make me a pie.  He's 75 now, think he is still making pies himself? 

I am planning a short 2 or 3 day trip to Detroit in late July early August.  I'll have at least 5 opportunities to dine out.  I was kind of thinking.... ...maybe something Middle Eastern around Michigan Avenue in Dearborn and another PIZZA. 

1. Loui's - Hazel Park
2. Bet & Jessie's Fish & Chips - Redford (I can't believe this place is still here)
3. Apollo Coney Island - Riverland Drive & Van Dyke in Sterling Heights (Best Shish Kebob sandwiches & chili fries anywhere)
4.
5.


Offline shuboyje

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #348 on: June 25, 2011, 11:06:20 PM »
Top pizza places around in my humble opinion are:

1. Fresco in Rochester - they do americanized neapolitan pizza very well. 
2. Pizzeria Biga in Southfield - another americanized neapolitan place.
3. Supino in the Eastern Market - Super thin artisan pies, some tend to be a bit bland but the ones that aren't(like the pepperoni) are great.
4. Tivoli's at Van Dyke and M-59 - They do like 5 different type of pizzas, but the stuff out of their wood fired oven is very good.  It's hard to put a label on the style other than maybe a misguided neapolitan but who cares if the result tastes good. 

Of course if you are looking for a thicker detroit style pie Nikki's in greek town is a classic.
-Jeff

Offline Saturday Coffee

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #349 on: June 26, 2011, 12:10:10 AM »

ADDING THESE TO MY LIST,
Supino in the Eastern Market - Super thin artisan pies, some tend to be a bit bland but the ones that aren't(like the pepperoni) are great.
Its been over 20 years since Ive been to the Eastern Market....this should be a treat

Tivoli's at Van Dyke and M-59 - They do like 5 different type of pizzas, but the stuff out of their wood fired oven is very good.  It's hard to put a label on the style other than maybe a misguided neapolitan but who cares if the result tastes good. 
This is very near where I will be staying - so it will make it convenient.

Thanks for the advice.