Author Topic: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's  (Read 173773 times)

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Offline balthisar

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #340 on: May 30, 2011, 09:01:48 PM »
Heres my latest Buddy's replica. Included a pic of some basic ingredients and a pan I found at Wal-Mart.
That is an excellent looking pie!

I'm looking into cheese-making now. Since my earlier posts, I've made my pre-trip to China, and the cheese isn't looking good. So, two new skills to take with me.


Offline Clive At Five

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #341 on: May 31, 2011, 09:06:49 AM »
I tried making this pie this weekend and have a couple take-away questions...

First of all, the sticking cheese was a major issue. I used a CM Bakalon pan (non-stick, annodized aluminum) and I even lubed with a light layer of crisco... yet, it was near impossible to get off. I had to soak the pan for several hours... So How much Crisco do y'all use? Seeing as there was a puddle of grease atop the pizza already (hey, not totally complaining ;) ) I'm hesitant to use more, but I will if I have to. I'm also wondering if I cooked it for a bit too long...

Secondly, pure sharp white cheddar was a little too tangy for my tastes. I understand the white cheddar is a requirement for the golden brown edge, but what's the opinion on using a 50/50 white cheddar / motz blend? I don't want the edge to get too dark.

Third, a piece of advice... coming from experimenting with the PH clone, it was hard to use so little oil. For those tempted to use more, DON'T! The bottom of my crust was actually a bit under-crispy due to too much oil. Combined with the grease from the cheese, there will be plenty of crisping-liquid in the pan!

Thanks for your feedback. Pics next time, I promise.

-Clive
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 04:35:00 PM by Clive At Five »

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #342 on: June 11, 2011, 11:47:41 AM »
Hey Clive
The only fix for the cheese welding itself to the pan I have found is to use a super well seasoned non stick pan, same as the pizzaria's famous for these pies do, and of course never wash them once they are coated.  To get the sides seasoned, I ran the pan upside down thru the oven a bunch so the oil would run "down" the sides.  Made quite a mess and stunk up the house before I figured out I needed some foil below to catch any drip off.  Doh!  An employee at a Buddy's carry out location told me they oil up and run new pans thru the ovens continually for a week before their first use, and I believe it.  I too have tried my high dollar non stick pans and had the same result as you.  In a pinch, I have used a 30 year old cast iron frying pan for these and that worked suprisingly well.   
Yes, pure white cheddar oils off a ton, and I frequently blend it with mozz or whatever.  You can still use just the cheddar on the very outer edge and throw the rest of the blend in the center, or just mix it together and have at it.  The edge is still mostly golden for me this way although there are some black specks thrown in.  Guess it depends on the mozz so see what you prefer.
Agree the amount of oil in the pan is important.  Now that my pans are so well seasoned it takes very little oil to get a good fried crisp going with the bottom not being greasy, and the crisco step is no longer necessary. 
Hog   

Offline Clive At Five

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #343 on: June 12, 2011, 01:02:57 AM »
Thanks for the feedback on the seasoned pans! I've been working on building up a nice coat on my deep dish rounds, so I will do the same for my Sicilian as well! I generally like the flavor it gives anyway!

As for technique, I've just been baking at 400 deg F, brushing the sides every ten minutes. Sufficient, you think?

-Clive

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #344 on: June 12, 2011, 09:25:33 AM »
As for technique, I've just been baking at 400 deg F, brushing the sides every ten minutes. Sufficient, you think?
-Clive

Should be, and as I recall that is pretty much what I did, with a higher temp cycle and the upside down thing thrown in every now and then.  Once it looks like it is about 30 years old you should be good to go!
Hog

Offline longcommutes

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #345 on: June 24, 2011, 10:19:42 PM »
To PizzaHog and all the others who contributed to the reverse engineering of the Detroit Style pizza I want to give you a HUGE Thumbs up and a big Thank You. My pizzas using the recipe listed on post 199 have passed the taste test of several picky Detroiters (my parents) that grew up on this style of pizza.  They liked my pies soo much they said they no longer have to bring any back when they visits Detroit because they can now simply just come to my house.  

Background:  I grew up in Warren (11 mile between Hoover and Schoenherr) and went away to college in 1987 and have only been back to Michigan a handful of times since then.  However, every time I did/do get back to the Detroit area I have to get my fix of Detroit style pizza at either Loui's or Buddy's (Loui's is my favorite).  Unfortunately out here in San Diego, California no one makes Detroit Style and now that my parents are out here in CA, I rarely get back to Detroit (which means very long periods between my Detroit pizza experiences).  My wife finally got sick of me complaining about how much I miss Detroit Style pizza that she said why don't you see if you can find a recipe on the internet.  So I found this site over a year ago and have been checking in on its progress.  I knew the pans would be key and I finally received my pans a couple of weeks ago and have been patiently seasoning them.  

Here are pictures of my first pie.  (I used a bit more sauce and New Zealand White Cheddar from Trader Joe's).  I did cook it for an extra 5 minutes at 475 since I put double the sauce on top (which was a bit too much but the 6 oz just looked too skimpy) and like a crispier crust.  Everyone loved it and now I can get my Detroit pizza fix anytime I want.  My next goal is to fool around and attempt a whole grain version since I have gotten into to grinding my own grain.  

Thanks again for all the hard work on this thread,
Mike

  
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 10:21:58 PM by longcommutes »

Offline tjkoko

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #346 on: June 24, 2011, 10:26:19 PM »
GooD STUFF!!!!!!!!!
Home bread baker for 10 years.

Offline Saturday Coffee

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #347 on: June 25, 2011, 09:48:42 PM »
Every time I see this thread pop as unread I become homesick for a fix of Loui's or Buddy's. If I could see in to the kitchen of any pizzeria and watch pizzas being made I would like to see Louis Tourtois of Loui's make me a pie.  He's 75 now, think he is still making pies himself? 

I am planning a short 2 or 3 day trip to Detroit in late July early August.  I'll have at least 5 opportunities to dine out.  I was kind of thinking.... ...maybe something Middle Eastern around Michigan Avenue in Dearborn and another PIZZA. 

1. Loui's - Hazel Park
2. Bet & Jessie's Fish & Chips - Redford (I can't believe this place is still here)
3. Apollo Coney Island - Riverland Drive & Van Dyke in Sterling Heights (Best Shish Kebob sandwiches & chili fries anywhere)
4.
5.


Offline shuboyje

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #348 on: June 25, 2011, 11:06:20 PM »
Top pizza places around in my humble opinion are:

1. Fresco in Rochester - they do americanized neapolitan pizza very well. 
2. Pizzeria Biga in Southfield - another americanized neapolitan place.
3. Supino in the Eastern Market - Super thin artisan pies, some tend to be a bit bland but the ones that aren't(like the pepperoni) are great.
4. Tivoli's at Van Dyke and M-59 - They do like 5 different type of pizzas, but the stuff out of their wood fired oven is very good.  It's hard to put a label on the style other than maybe a misguided neapolitan but who cares if the result tastes good. 

Of course if you are looking for a thicker detroit style pie Nikki's in greek town is a classic.
-Jeff

Offline Saturday Coffee

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #349 on: June 26, 2011, 12:10:10 AM »

ADDING THESE TO MY LIST,
Supino in the Eastern Market - Super thin artisan pies, some tend to be a bit bland but the ones that aren't(like the pepperoni) are great.
Its been over 20 years since Ive been to the Eastern Market....this should be a treat

Tivoli's at Van Dyke and M-59 - They do like 5 different type of pizzas, but the stuff out of their wood fired oven is very good.  It's hard to put a label on the style other than maybe a misguided neapolitan but who cares if the result tastes good. 
This is very near where I will be staying - so it will make it convenient.

Thanks for the advice. 



Offline sspiek

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #350 on: June 27, 2011, 04:58:49 PM »

Flour (100%):    273.04 g  |  9.63 oz | 0.6 lbs               2C + 3 T
Water (75%):    204.78 g  |  7.22 oz | 0.45 lbs             C + 1 T + 2 t
IDY (0.55%):    1.5 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp       t
Salt (1.5%):    4.1 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.73 tsp | 0.24 tbsp    t
Total (177.05%):   483.42 g | 17.05 oz | 1.07 lbs | TF = 0.1218

PizzaHog, do you have the recipe for the small pan pizza's as well and the recommended pan size?

Offline longcommutes

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #351 on: June 28, 2011, 12:12:52 AM »
sspiek,

The small square pan is an 8X10 and PizzaHog's recipe is for the 10X14 pan.  To make the 8X10 recipe simply multiple the ingredient amounts by about 0.57 and you will be good to go.  That is what I did and the pie came out just like the large one did.  I followed the recipe by weight except for the yeast and salt since my scale is not sensitive at the lower weights.

So the amounts would be.

Flour  (156.02g) / 5.50 oz / (1 1/4 cup)
Water (117.02g) / 4.13 oz / (1/2 cup)
IDY (.86g) / 5/16 t
Salt (2.34g) / 7/16 t

3.43 oz of sauce
9.14 oz of cheese

Hope this helps,


 

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #352 on: July 18, 2011, 11:35:58 AM »
Every time I see this thread pop as unread I become homesick for a fix of Loui's or Buddy's. If I could see in to the kitchen of any pizzeria and watch pizzas being made I would like to see Louis Tourtois of Loui's make me a pie.  He's 75 now, think he is still making pies himself? 

I am planning a short 2 or 3 day trip to Detroit in late July early August.  I'll have at least 5 opportunities to dine out.  I was kind of thinking.... ...maybe something Middle Eastern around Michigan Avenue in Dearborn and another PIZZA. 

1. Loui's - Hazel Park
2. Bet & Jessie's Fish & Chips - Redford (I can't believe this place is still here)
3. Apollo Coney Island - Riverland Drive & Van Dyke in Sterling Heights (Best Shish Kebob sandwiches & chili fries anywhere)
4.
5.

Hey Saturday Coffe
I noticed you mention hankerin' for some Middle Eastern, and that you will be in Sterling Heights.  Right next door in Clinton Township is my current favorite, Fattoush Lebanese Grill.  Family run (2 sisters, hubby and son), smallish place, smallish menu, smallish prices, about as home made as one can find.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/fattoush-clinton-township
Around Dearborn there are so many it is hard to go wrong, but this place is reported as a fav and was featured on Anthony Bourdain's TV show.
http://www.alameerrestaurant.com/
I recall reading somewhere that Loui's son is now running the show.  Haven't been there for a few years but it was still the real deal then.  Chili fires and kabob sammies?  I will be hitting Apollo for sure, thanks!

Longcommutes, good looking pie there, glad it worked out for ya.

Offline Clive At Five

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #353 on: July 27, 2011, 10:36:11 AM »
Seasoning the pan made a HUGE difference.

I used a little extra yeast so the dough would be ready to use in ~2.5 hours, and had no problems getting it to develop. I even did a mini punch-down/spread-out about an hour in. I used verrrrry little oil, but still it seemed too much. I even ended up draining some off. I also crisco'd the edges because I was very paranoid about the cheese sticking. That was probably overkill. With all the toppings, I was already at the brim of the pan, and the melted Crisco along with the run-off from the cheese bubbled over the side and smoked up the oven. Next time, I will "tempt fate" and use just a modest spray of release agent.

The cheese popped out just fine, by the way, no effort at all.

This pizza is GOOOOOOOOD. Crispy bottom layer, thick cheese, and delicious! The only thing is that I can only imagine how disgustingly unhealthy it is... it's very oily, which I'll definitely be trying to minimize... it's delicious, don't get me wrong, but I feel like I have to run a marathon afterwards.

Thanks for the help on a great pie, PizzaHog (and others!)

-Clive

Offline norma427

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #354 on: July 27, 2011, 11:22:06 AM »
Clive,

Your pizza really looks delicious!   :)  Great job.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline pjbear05

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #355 on: August 06, 2011, 02:31:41 PM »
I recently read on the Free Press site about the 60th anniversary of Buddy's original location, has anybody been there for a 60th anniversary pie?

I miss that place from my softball playing days at Jayne Field.

I'll be making dough tonight and a pizza tomorrow.
 :chef:
"Aw, Paulie?  You won't see him no more!"

Offline grindliner

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #356 on: September 02, 2011, 11:33:02 AM »
the recipe in post 199 is pretty damn close.

I was talking with local Italian baker about this thread, and that I am shooting to clone Loui's, he asked me how I was frying my dough, I told him I've tried olive and canola oils on different occaisions, he told me to try lard and gave a wink!

So, my next attempt will be with lard

Online Pete-zza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #357 on: September 02, 2011, 01:44:44 PM »
grindliner,

You might check out Reply 284 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg151440.html#msg151440. "Manteca" is Spanish for lard but it is largely in liquid form rather than solid form.

Peter

Offline Saturday Coffee

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #358 on: September 02, 2011, 06:27:00 PM »
I was talking with local Italian baker about this thread, and that I am shooting to clone Loui's, he asked me how I was frying my dough, I told him I've tried olive and canola oils on different occaisions, he told me to try lard and gave a wink!

I always knew Loui's was a heart attack waiting to happen. 


   

Offline Shields Street Guy

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #359 on: September 07, 2011, 11:54:31 AM »
 Hello everyone,
I just discovered this great Pizza forum yesterday while looking for Sicilian Pizza Dough recipes and I'm very glad to be here.
I was born on Shields street in Detroit, MI , FOUR blocks from Buddy's Rendezvous on Conant St.
Between my home and Buddy's there was a place called the "Turtle Soup Inn" that served great Round Pizza.
Long before Shields Pizza opened, TWO long blocks from me, there was a small Pizzeria named "Home Of The Pizza" serving square, Sicilian style Pizza. This one was located at Davison Ave. and Moenart St., about 3/4 of a mile from my home.
 I've also been to Loui's many times. They were all great!

I was in PIZZA HEAVEN! NOTHING like these in the Florida Keys :(

Dave Andreski
Key West, FL

 P.S., PLEASE excuse my misspelled 'user name'. It should read SHIELDS STREET GUY, NOT SHEILDS! How embarrassing. I've asked the forum owner to correct this for me.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2011, 11:57:22 AM by Sheilds Street Guy »