Author Topic: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's  (Read 149367 times)

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Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #240 on: May 18, 2010, 08:27:37 PM »
I just got a membership at Restaurant Depot.  They just opened here in Denver, CO.  If anyone needs pans I am sure they have them.  I will quote you prices on Friday.  Also, I was told they have the sausage that Buddy's uses.  I will believe it when I see it!



Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #241 on: June 12, 2010, 12:54:36 PM »
After a lot of trial and error, I think I have a pizza that is pretty good.  I don't know how close it is to Buddy's since I no longer live in Michigan, but it taste great.  Most of everything I learned was from this forum, so thank you everyone!  Give this pizza a try and let me know how it turns out.

Here is what I did.

Dough Formula:
•   Flour (100%):          318 g
•   Water (74%):          236 g
•   IDY (0.94%):          3.0 g
•   Salt (1.6%):          5.0 g

Ingredients:
•   Flour:          King Arthur Bread Flour
•   Salt:             Table Salt
•   Water:          Tap Water
•   Cheese:         White Cheddar & Mozzarella (50/50)
•   Fresh Herbs:      Anise, French Tarragon, Oregano, Garlic Chives
•   Oil:            Olive Oil
•   Grease:         Crisco
•   Sauce:         Stanislaus
•   Pepperoni:         Margherita Brand
•   Cornmeal:
•   Butter:
•   Minced Garlic:      
•   Mixer:          Kitchen Aid Mixer with dough hook
•   Pan:             9x13 Grey Steel Pan (Wish I had black)

Directions:
•   Dissolve salt in water
•   Add flour to salt and water mixture
•   Sprinkle IDY on top
•   Mix on lowest speed until incorporated.  Let dough rest for 2 minutes.  Then continue on this speed for 8 minutes
•   Let dough rest for 20 minutes
•   Using Crisco, grease the pan
•   Sprinkle Corn Meal of the bottom and all edges of the pan
•   Scrape dough into a greased pan
•   With oiled finger tips, spread dough in pizza pan
•   Cover and let rise for 3-4 hours
•   Pre-heat oven to 500 degrees
•   Pre-bake dough for 6 minutes at 500 degrees (I live at 6K feet, so you might not have to do this)
•   Spread butter/garlic mixture over the top of the pizza crust
•   Add a thin layer of sauce, pepperoni, cheese and sauce again (in rows)
•   Bake on bottom oven rack for 12-15 min at 5000
•   Remove and let cool

Pizza Sauce:
•   Mix water with Stanislaus Pizza sauce until the sauce can drip off the spoon
•   Add dices Anise, French Tarragon, Oregano and Garlic Chives to sauce mixture

Special Notes:
•   Only pure white cheddar should be used on the perimeter of the pan to create the all important caramelized cheese crust
•   Cheese in the middle of the pizza should be a blend of mozzarella and white cheddar (50/50)

Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #242 on: June 12, 2010, 03:20:11 PM »
I'm a baker of a another regional style of Sicilian that I bake in blue steel pans. I noticed that your pan appears to be steel. Is it? What kind is it and where did you get it from? It appears to have at least 2" high sides. Mine are only 1-1/8" high and using peanut oil with it, I have to be careful not to let the oil overflow the pans in the oven and smoke up the house. I'm looking for higher pans like the one in your picture.

Thanks,

steel_baker
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Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #243 on: June 14, 2010, 04:35:24 PM »
Hi Steel Bake,

The pan I used is a cheap metal.  It's not the super strong steel pans, but it works.  It does have the 2" high sides.  I purchased it at Bed Bath and Beyond.  Also seen it at Ross.

If you go to ebay and type in Pizza Pan, there is a guy selling the black steel pans in lots of 5 for $50.  They even come with a tray so you can stack them.

What kind of Sicilian pizza do you make?  I am always open to try new styles.

Thanks,

Grilled

Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #244 on: June 14, 2010, 11:00:01 PM »
Here is a link to some posts in a different thread: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5656.msg95399.html#msg95399

This has pictures and techniques. It's basically a style of pan pizza that is unique to the northeastern PA area. Very tasty soft dough crust, with an unspiced & uncooked tomato & onion sauce, and a light topping of white cheddar cheese. It's baked (well.... fried) in a steel or cast iron pan with lots of peanut oil in a 475 oven. It browns up nicely, gets a crisp bottom and maintains a soft top.

I grew up with it and in all my travels across the country, I have never found anything else like it, so I learned to make it for myself.

steel_baker
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Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #245 on: June 25, 2010, 11:48:32 PM »
Steel,

You have a nice blend of cheese and sauce.  Do you put the cheese on before the sauce?

Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #246 on: June 27, 2010, 03:22:30 PM »
Steel,

You have a nice blend of cheese and sauce.  Do you put the cheese on before the sauce?

No I still sauce it before putting on the cheese. The secret is not to use too much of either. I'm a big believer in "balance" in my cooking and so I try to get the right amount of sauce & cheese on without overwhelming the pizza with it.

steel_baker
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Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #247 on: June 28, 2010, 05:13:01 PM »
Hi Seel,

I tried the 67% hydration.  Very nice.  It had the similar texture as the 75%, but the dough was so much easier to handle.  It was nice to be able to spread it out then place it into the pan.  Next I will need to try the peanut oil.

Grilled

Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #248 on: June 28, 2010, 07:10:25 PM »
I tried 75% once and it was just too difficult to handle. I had difficulties with both handling and sticking to the pans so I cut back to 65% and crept up from there 1% at a time. 67% seemed to be the point where I had a great balance in crust, moisture & lightness.

I also asked myself constantly, "how would the VP restaurant do it?" They had to have production since they were serving hundreds of trays a night so they couldn't afford to have a dough that was hard to handle since as you know, it requires several rises and spreading in the pan. Can't do that with a machine.

I vacationed in Colorado a few weeks ago and relatives there wanted me to make it for them since it's quite a delicacy for those who grew up in NE PA but now live elsewhere. I mixed up both a 1-1/2 cup & 4 cup batch of dough by hand, working with strange pans (no steel), and a strange oven. Amazingly enough, it turned out wonderful and they were amazed I had duplicated their beloved Victory Pig pizza. Now they know how to do it too. They have the recipe and they've seen me make it.

I love making it but with the hot summer weather, I'm going to need to start baking it on the grill. I use a Phoenix grill which is indirect heat so it's more like an oven. I can set a temp and bake just like in my kitchen oven. I haven't done it yet but probably 4th of July weekend will give me some time to mix dough & bake. Just bought some more pans, some smaller sizes so I can continue to make the small 1-1/2 cup batches by hand. Makes it easier to experiment with toppings, etc.

By all means though, try the peanut oil. A big part of this pizza is the mouth feel. The crispy bottom with the soft top is very unique and makes for a very satisfying experience.

steel_baker

Should be a good weekend.
steel_baker  :chef:

Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #249 on: June 29, 2010, 12:15:30 AM »
The 75% is hard to handle.  When I made the 67%, the dough felt like it did when I was at a pizza joint back in MI. 

That's awesome your relatives loved your pizza.  There is nothing better when someone says how great your pizza is.  What part of CO were you in?

Grilling pizza is fun and it taste great.  Right now I am trying to make a hybrid pizza between Sicilian and Grilled.  Haven't figured it out yet, but I am close.  Since my grill is a direct heat, I have to put the cheese on 1st and sauce 2nd.  Otherwise the cheese does not melt and the crust gets too hard.

I will definitely try the peanut oil.  I have been using Crisco and my crust does not have that golden brown and I trying for.  Check out the pictures on the other forum you sent me too.

Have a great 4th.

Grilled


Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #250 on: June 29, 2010, 07:21:23 AM »
We were in the Durango area. I was concerned about the impact altitude might have on the results but it turned out that it had little impact. I just used a little more flour for the same size pan and it turned out well.

Hope everyone has a great 4th.

steel_baker
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Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #251 on: July 20, 2010, 11:49:59 PM »
My dad was at Buddy's in Warren today.  He spoke to the manager about the oil they use and the type of flour.

The oil is Canola.  The manager described the dough as a pastry flour.  (Not straight bread flour or all purpose).  I looked up pastry flour and it is a mix between All Purpose and Cake flour (50/50).  He told my dad that they use a heavy amount of Canola oil so it's like deep frying the dough.  This is how they get the crisp. 

Also, the pans they use are cast iron...



Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #252 on: August 22, 2010, 02:03:11 PM »
Regarding pans, I believe that I've found the source for the pans that Buddy's uses. I make a style of sicilian pizza unique to NE PA and I've had Buddy's before well. They both use the same type pans so I've been looking for them myself for a long time.

The company that manufactures these pans is a few blocks from the Buddy's store in Livonia and is called PA Products. I've ordered a dozen of these pans for myself (that's the minimum quantity) and they're the real thing. I just washed them and will start seasoning them later today.

If you compare the pans in the pics posted earlier in this thread (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg62851.html#msg62851) with these pans from PA Products, Rectangular Blue Steel Pizza Pans (http://www.paprod.com/pans.html), you'll see that they're the same. These are excellent quality, they're 16 Gauge blue steel (iow, they're magic) so they're perfect for a quick hot bake that browns easily and they're inexpensive at $7.95 ea. I bought a dozen and had them shipped to my home in PA for $113. I believe that Buddy's uses the 12x17's for 8 square and 8x10's for 4 square.

If anyone wants to see better pics of them, I'll be glad to take a few and post them before they go into the oven for several hours of seasoning.

Just fyi, I've been looking for these pans for many years and have finally found them. I'm keeping the whole dozen for myself so I'll have good pizza pans for decades to come.

steel_baker

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Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #253 on: August 22, 2010, 02:19:55 PM »
Here's a pic

steel_baker

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #254 on: August 22, 2010, 05:05:34 PM »
If you compare the pans in the pics posted earlier in this thread (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg62851.html#msg62851) with these pans from PA Products, Rectangular Blue Steel Pizza Pans (http://www.paprod.com/pans.html), you'll see that they're the same. These are excellent quality, they're 16 Gauge blue steel (iow, they're magic) so they're perfect for a quick hot bake that browns easily and they're inexpensive at $7.95 ea. I bought a dozen and had them shipped to my home in PA for $113. I believe that Buddy's uses the 12x17's for 8 square and 8x10's for 4 square.


steel_baker,

As I noted at Reply 126 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg81436.html#msg81436, I was once told by Buddy's that the pan size for the four-square is 8" x 10" and 10" x 14" for the eight-square. The name P.A. Products came up before in this thread starting at Reply 130 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg82690.html#msg82690.

Peter

Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #255 on: August 22, 2010, 05:20:40 PM »
Sorry, Hadn't seen that before.

It just seems like people have been asking what kind of pans they're using elsewhere in the thread so I thought I'd found an answer?

steel_baker
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Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #256 on: August 28, 2010, 06:13:25 PM »
Steel Baker,

Did you get a chance to make a pizza with your new pans?  How did it turn out?

Grilled

Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #257 on: August 29, 2010, 10:49:50 AM »
Steel Baker,

Did you get a chance to make a pizza with your new pans?  How did it turn out?

Grilled

Not yet, I've got 3 of them seasoned and ready to go though. Trying my hand at thin crust pizzas this weekend. Went to the countertop store and bought a 14x16x1-1/8 piece of soapstone last week. Heated it up to 520 yesterday and I've got 2-62% hydration 12oz doughballs in the fridge since yesterday morning. Gonna bake 2-12" pizzas late in the day on the stone.

This will also be a different sauce than my sicilians. I use just canned crushed tomatoes with finely chopped onions mixed in, uncooked on the sicilians. For the thin pies, I'll mix in some dried oregano & basil, a pinch of sugar with the uncooked crushed tomatoes, skip the onions and see how that comes out. I'll use the same cheeses mixture (50 mozz:50 white ched), spread a pinch of kosher salt on the skin before topping it.

Then bake for ?? mins at 500 on the stone, bottom rack. My oven has a window in the door so I'll be able to watch it carefully.

I like to make the sicilians when we have a crowd over because it's better made in large quantities than just for my wife & I. Maybe I'm cocky about them because every tray turns out consistently well and I want to be able to do that with thin crusts also. Anymore, when I make them, my friends and neighbors insist that I make enough for there to be leftovers to take home. It reheats extremely well.

steel_baker

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Offline VICIII

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #258 on: September 09, 2010, 09:02:13 PM »
Thanks guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok nailed the crust and cheese!
The sauce is lacking that mellow sweet tomato flavor.
What do you guys use for sauce? 

Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #259 on: September 10, 2010, 11:41:37 PM »
Hi VICIII,

I use Stanislaus sauce, but the truth is it’s hard to find.  If you have Restaurant Depot near you, you can pick it up there.  All you need is a business license for anything and they will sell it to you.  If you don’t want to go through all the hassle, I like Hunt’s crushed tomatoes.
With Hunt’s you will need to add a little more sugar.  I use brown sugar.  Not sure why, but it taste better.  I always add a little Hunts tomato paste to keep the consistency nice.  Crushed tomatoes is very watery and I do not cook my sauce before putting it on the pizza.
With all my sauce I add salt, pepper, onion powder, Italian seasoning, hot sauce (Cholula is best, but Tobacco will do) and fresh Basil.   Rosemary is great too.  Personally, I like to add the Rosemary to the dough because it gives it a nice Focaccia taste. 

Proportions is hard to determine because it is so small and my scale only measures to the gram.

Give it a try and let me know.

Grilled