Author Topic: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's  (Read 213994 times)

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Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #250 on: June 29, 2010, 07:21:23 AM »
We were in the Durango area. I was concerned about the impact altitude might have on the results but it turned out that it had little impact. I just used a little more flour for the same size pan and it turned out well.

Hope everyone has a great 4th.

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Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #251 on: July 20, 2010, 11:49:59 PM »
My dad was at Buddy's in Warren today.  He spoke to the manager about the oil they use and the type of flour.

The oil is Canola.  The manager described the dough as a pastry flour.  (Not straight bread flour or all purpose).  I looked up pastry flour and it is a mix between All Purpose and Cake flour (50/50).  He told my dad that they use a heavy amount of Canola oil so it's like deep frying the dough.  This is how they get the crisp. 

Also, the pans they use are cast iron...



Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #252 on: August 22, 2010, 02:03:11 PM »
Regarding pans, I believe that I've found the source for the pans that Buddy's uses. I make a style of sicilian pizza unique to NE PA and I've had Buddy's before well. They both use the same type pans so I've been looking for them myself for a long time.

The company that manufactures these pans is a few blocks from the Buddy's store in Livonia and is called PA Products. I've ordered a dozen of these pans for myself (that's the minimum quantity) and they're the real thing. I just washed them and will start seasoning them later today.

If you compare the pans in the pics posted earlier in this thread (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg62851.html#msg62851) with these pans from PA Products, Rectangular Blue Steel Pizza Pans (http://www.paprod.com/pans.html), you'll see that they're the same. These are excellent quality, they're 16 Gauge blue steel (iow, they're magic) so they're perfect for a quick hot bake that browns easily and they're inexpensive at $7.95 ea. I bought a dozen and had them shipped to my home in PA for $113. I believe that Buddy's uses the 12x17's for 8 square and 8x10's for 4 square.

If anyone wants to see better pics of them, I'll be glad to take a few and post them before they go into the oven for several hours of seasoning.

Just fyi, I've been looking for these pans for many years and have finally found them. I'm keeping the whole dozen for myself so I'll have good pizza pans for decades to come.

steel_baker

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Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #253 on: August 22, 2010, 02:19:55 PM »
Here's a pic

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #254 on: August 22, 2010, 05:05:34 PM »
If you compare the pans in the pics posted earlier in this thread (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg62851.html#msg62851) with these pans from PA Products, Rectangular Blue Steel Pizza Pans (http://www.paprod.com/pans.html), you'll see that they're the same. These are excellent quality, they're 16 Gauge blue steel (iow, they're magic) so they're perfect for a quick hot bake that browns easily and they're inexpensive at $7.95 ea. I bought a dozen and had them shipped to my home in PA for $113. I believe that Buddy's uses the 12x17's for 8 square and 8x10's for 4 square.

steel_baker,

As I noted at Reply 126 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg81436.html#msg81436, I was once told by Buddy's that the pan size for the four-square is 8" x 10" and 10" x 14" for the eight-square. The name P.A. Products came up before in this thread starting at Reply 130 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg82690.html#msg82690.

Peter

Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #255 on: August 22, 2010, 05:20:40 PM »
Sorry, Hadn't seen that before.

It just seems like people have been asking what kind of pans they're using elsewhere in the thread so I thought I'd found an answer?

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Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #256 on: August 28, 2010, 06:13:25 PM »
Steel Baker,

Did you get a chance to make a pizza with your new pans?  How did it turn out?

Grilled

Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #257 on: August 29, 2010, 10:49:50 AM »
Steel Baker,

Did you get a chance to make a pizza with your new pans?  How did it turn out?

Grilled

Not yet, I've got 3 of them seasoned and ready to go though. Trying my hand at thin crust pizzas this weekend. Went to the countertop store and bought a 14x16x1-1/8 piece of soapstone last week. Heated it up to 520 yesterday and I've got 2-62% hydration 12oz doughballs in the fridge since yesterday morning. Gonna bake 2-12" pizzas late in the day on the stone.

This will also be a different sauce than my sicilians. I use just canned crushed tomatoes with finely chopped onions mixed in, uncooked on the sicilians. For the thin pies, I'll mix in some dried oregano & basil, a pinch of sugar with the uncooked crushed tomatoes, skip the onions and see how that comes out. I'll use the same cheeses mixture (50 mozz:50 white ched), spread a pinch of kosher salt on the skin before topping it.

Then bake for ?? mins at 500 on the stone, bottom rack. My oven has a window in the door so I'll be able to watch it carefully.

I like to make the sicilians when we have a crowd over because it's better made in large quantities than just for my wife & I. Maybe I'm cocky about them because every tray turns out consistently well and I want to be able to do that with thin crusts also. Anymore, when I make them, my friends and neighbors insist that I make enough for there to be leftovers to take home. It reheats extremely well.

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Offline VICIII

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #258 on: September 09, 2010, 09:02:13 PM »
Thanks guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok nailed the crust and cheese!
The sauce is lacking that mellow sweet tomato flavor.
What do you guys use for sauce? 


Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #259 on: September 10, 2010, 11:41:37 PM »
Hi VICIII,

I use Stanislaus sauce, but the truth is itís hard to find.  If you have Restaurant Depot near you, you can pick it up there.  All you need is a business license for anything and they will sell it to you.  If you donít want to go through all the hassle, I like Huntís crushed tomatoes.
With Huntís you will need to add a little more sugar.  I use brown sugar.  Not sure why, but it taste better.  I always add a little Hunts tomato paste to keep the consistency nice.  Crushed tomatoes is very watery and I do not cook my sauce before putting it on the pizza.
With all my sauce I add salt, pepper, onion powder, Italian seasoning, hot sauce (Cholula is best, but Tobacco will do) and fresh Basil.   Rosemary is great too.  Personally, I like to add the Rosemary to the dough because it gives it a nice Focaccia taste. 

Proportions is hard to determine because it is so small and my scale only measures to the gram.

Give it a try and let me know.

Grilled

Offline android

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #260 on: September 13, 2010, 06:47:58 PM »
sorry if i missed it, but is the preferred fermentation method to just let it rise in the pan for 3-4 hours, or do you let it rise once in a bowl, then transfer to a pan and let rise again? thanks.

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #261 on: September 13, 2010, 07:54:28 PM »
sorry if i missed it, but is the preferred fermentation method to just let it rise in the pan for 3-4 hours, or do you let it rise once in a bowl, then transfer to a pan and let rise again? thanks.
Hey Android
Just one rise in the pan for me.

Offline android

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #262 on: September 13, 2010, 09:16:38 PM »
awesome, thanks. can't wait to give this one a try!

Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #263 on: September 15, 2010, 08:02:06 PM »
In the pan only.  I tried the bowl and then put it in the pan.  Does not work.

Offline android

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #264 on: September 19, 2010, 11:31:48 AM »
finally tried this last night. had to scale it down to an 8x10 as that's all i have in the house at the moment. it's a creuset enamelware pan, so it doesn't come out quite like it would with metal, but was still very tasty. i substituted all of the water with a combo of english mild ale and oatmeal stout, it was not super noticeable in the final pizza, but was definitely present. i put what i would consider a copious amount of EVOO in the pan and spread it out very well but still get the crust sticking to the pan in certain spots. any tips on a lube that releases better? thanks for all the hard work and research in this thread, it turns out a very tasty pizza.

Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #265 on: September 19, 2010, 11:49:13 AM »
Peanut oil, much higher smoke point than EVOO to handle the higher temps of baking pizza.

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Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #266 on: September 19, 2010, 02:26:41 PM »
Quote
any tips on a lube that releases better?
Hey Android
I've tried butter, OO, shortening, and "veg" oil (can't recall which) and all worked well enough.  Never tried peanut oil but sounds tasty too.
The lube part of the equation to prevent any sticking for me was to season the living daylights out of my steel pan.  Now I only use about a teaspoon or so of OO, get a crisp golden brown fry, and the pie slides right out with no sticking, except for the carmelized cheese on the edges which now releases easily just running a plastic spatula around the perimeter.  This seasoned pan is identical to the one steel baker posted earlier in this thread and works way better than my high dollar non stick.
If you cannot locate such a black/blue steel pan and would like some, no problem picking some up and shipping to you.  Just shoot me a PM.
I liked beer when I tried it too but think I prefer to drink it along with the pie more.


Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #267 on: September 19, 2010, 02:42:05 PM »
Amazon.com sells the Paderno World Cuisine blue steel baking sheets (they're 1-1/8" high) in various sizes. Oil them up and they work extremely well. I actually prefer the peanut oil flavor over the OO flavor with Pizza. PO has a very light flavor and the flavor doesn't change with high heat like OO can sometimes. That's the difference that the higher smoke point makes.

But as always, YMMV.

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Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #268 on: September 19, 2010, 02:57:15 PM »
Quote
I actually prefer the peanut oil flavor over the OO flavor with Pizza. PO has a very light flavor and the flavor doesn't change with high heat like OO can sometimes.
That's what I was thinking SB as I do like the flavor of peanut oil and will have to give that a try.  Lately I have been using pomace oil which is super mild to flavorless depending on brand.

Offline VICIII

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #269 on: September 29, 2010, 10:09:11 AM »
Just got it Done...  It matches close enough for me..

Can't figure out how to post a pic??

Well I guess I did...

Offline KingMob4313

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #270 on: October 02, 2010, 05:30:17 PM »
Finally the basics are all together so here is my recipe for Detroit Style Pie.
I attempted to incorporate as much of the info contained in this thread as possible.  Sort of trying to imagine how one of these pizzerias would pump out the dough and pies every day.  Whenever in doubt I referred to the KISS theory.  I also tried to use easily findable ingredients for everyone's convenience.  In the end this is a simple and forgiving dough but the devil was in the other details.
No scale, all measurements textbook method.

Flour (100%):    273.04 g  |  9.63 oz | 0.6 lbs               2C + 3 T
Water (75%):    204.78 g  |  7.22 oz | 0.45 lbs            ĺ C + 1 T + 2 Ĺ t
IDY (0.55%):    1.5 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp      Ĺ t
Salt (1.5%):    4.1 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.73 tsp | 0.24 tbsp   ĺ t
Total (177.05%):   483.42 g | 17.05 oz | 1.07 lbs | TF = 0.1218

That's all I can think of for now.
Hog





I think I may have screwed something up.  At 2.20 C of flour and .845 C of water, my dough is not really soft, or really wet.  We'll see what happens.  I've moved away from the Big D out to Ottawa and the pizza is horrible here.

Thanks for all the research Pizza Hog, I'm gonna keep trying this until I no longer suck.. Since I can't get good pizza out here in Ottawa.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 09:57:24 PM by KingMob4313 »

Offline KingMob4313

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #271 on: October 02, 2010, 05:34:55 PM »
My pizza didn't rise but I used bread machine yeast, which was my problem.  I'll have to play with the water amounts as well, mine was kinda dry and hard to work with.  I might try the recipe exactly as advertised but this time use the scale to make sure it's right. 

It's a great recipe, and a huge thanks to everyone who did the research for this.   Thanks for all the help,   

Also, I made a really great sauce with 6 ounces of Unico crushed tomatoes and 2 tsp bulk store Italian seasoning, 1/4 tsp each of black pepper, salt and red pepper flake done up in a spice grinder.  I'd say replace the salt with anchovy paste and you'd have something close to the Loui's sauce.

Pictures of my first partially failed pizza coming soon.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 10:02:20 PM by KingMob4313 »

Offline witchy1

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #272 on: October 16, 2010, 05:01:39 PM »
I had to reply since i tried making PizzaHog's dough today. I don't have a large enough metal pan, so I split the dough in half and used 2 cast iron skillets as the pan and used peanut oil as the "lube". All I can say is WOW!!! Great pie and so light and crisp! This is definitely going in the "Keep" pile!


Andrea
« Last Edit: October 16, 2010, 05:03:51 PM by witchy1 »

Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #273 on: October 16, 2010, 05:44:13 PM »
Ya gotta love the peanut oil. Back home, the stores that make the same style of sicilian that I make mostly all use peanut oil. It's definitely a difference maker.

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Offline WallysPizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #274 on: November 14, 2010, 01:02:01 PM »
Hi Everyone!

I'm going to try PizzaHog's recipe shortly but I have 12 x 17 pans, any recommendation on how to scale this recipe up to that pan size?

Once I get all my ingredients together and do a run through I'll post pics.

Thanks!


 

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