Author Topic: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's (Read 119458 times)

PizzaHog · « **Reply #280 on:** December 11, 2010, 11:14:05 AM »

Hey Gibby, been a while!
I think once you try the white cheddar your brain and taste buds will say Eureka! Unfortunately, I have not been able to secure any from Roselli's. Best I have found is at the Walmart on Hall road near Romeo Plank. 2 lb blocks of Cabot extra sharp white cheddar for less than $7. Blend away or use it straight up for the full monte, it's all good.
But now that you are going "pro" (congrats!) you can access the big quantity items. Roselli's told me they sell brick cheese to Cloverleaf and some other's that I can't recall in 40 lb blocks at around $2/lb. I tried some brick off a 40lb block a while ago but not sure if it is the same brand that Roselli's carries. I found it to be too mild after baking but it did blend well with the white cheddar. From the taste and texture it was quite close to what Buddy's is using at the carry out only I tried a while back, but again, not the flavor we grew up with. Somewhere out there is a stronger, more intense brick I bet that may have been the original cheese. But if not, the white cheddar still has that zing and does not turn black on the edge.
As far as Buddy's messing around or differences between operators, something is going on.
Buddy's as it should be IMHO (see photos) http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg73872.html#msg73872.
Close, but not it (see photos) http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg81715.html#msg81715.
This has been my experience as well but I shoud really try the Warren or original location again to compare.
Agree that 15oz of cheese is over the top and I have had my best results with Stanislaus.
What bromated flour are you using from Roselli's and how is that working out for you? I have yet to try bromated on anything.
Good luck on your endevour and please post the F.I.L's bar once you get your pizza going. I would definately like to be a customer.
Hog

Grilled Pizza · « **Reply #281 on:** December 23, 2010, 02:51:32 AM »

I emailed Buddy's to see what kind of flour they use. Said I had several allergies. They responded back with a short answer that use wheat flour in their pizza's.

I searched and found that Bromated Flour is wheat flour with potassium bromate (KBrO3 ) added to it. Where can this type of flour be bought?

PizzaHog · « **Reply #282 on:** January 01, 2011, 10:54:16 AM »

Quote from: Grilled Pizza on December 23, 2010, 02:51:32 AM

I emailed Buddy's to see what kind of flour they use. Said I had several allergies. They responded back with a short answer that use wheat flour in their pizza's.

I searched and found that Bromated Flour is wheat flour with potassium bromate (KBrO3 ) added to it. Where can this type of flour be bought?

Hey GP
In my locale bromated flour is only avail at wholesale suppliers so maybe your Restaurant Depot membership will provide a source although I would not be surprised if it comes in 20 or 50 lb bags. Pennmac and prob other internet suppliers sell repackaged bromated flour/s in 5 lb bags. I personally have never seen a bromated flour that was not high gluten but not sure if that is universal or just my experience.

Pete-zza · « **Reply #283 on:** January 01, 2011, 12:49:43 PM »

Quote from: PizzaHog on January 01, 2011, 10:54:16 AM

I personally have never seen a bromated flour that was not high gluten but not sure if that is universal or just my experience.

Hog,

That is just your experience. As you will see from http://www.gmiflour.com/gmflour/flour.aspx?type=Espring, there are some spring wheat flours that are not high-gluten flours as we generally know them (around 14% protein) but that have lower protein levels and are bromated. The protein levels can range from about 12.6% (e.g., the GM Superlative and Full Strength), which we tend to view as a bread flour, to as much as 13.6% (e.g., the GM Remarkable and Iron Duke). Because this latter group falls between what we think of as bread flour and high-gluten flour, the flours in this group are sometimes given their own name, like medium gluten flour or premium gluten flour. Winter wheat flours are usually not bromated and all-purpose flours are almost never bromated. I am not sure where the flour used by Buddy's falls in the above flour spectrum. However, we do know that it is bromated.

I gave you GM examples. Similar patterns exist at most of the big flour millers, like ConAgra, Bay State Milling, etc.

Peter

BigT · « **Reply #284 on:** January 31, 2011, 04:34:06 PM »

I tried making a pizza this weekend using PizzaHog's recipe from a few pages back and was a little disappointed. I have a scale so I calculated the ingredients correctly and mixed it in the kitchenaid for 8 minutes and then let it rest 20 minutes before transferring to a pan. The pan might be where my trouble started - I used a 9x13 grey cake pan (i.e. your standard calphalon baking pan). Also, I used active dry yeast instead of instant yeast b/c that is what I had on hand. I made sure to proof the yeast in warm water for a few minutes before adding it to the rest of the dry ingredients.

Here are the pitfalls of the pizza:

1) Dough did not rise. I let it sit out at room temp for about 4 hours and it really didn't rise much at all. It was probably about 1/8" thick when I put it in the oven. When I think of a Detroit-style, pizza, I think of a pizza with a fairly thick crust (1/2"+), so I knew I was in trouble right off the bat. Maybe I just needed a long rising time?

2) The outer crust did not fry up nicely nor get very crispy; there was almost no crunch to the bottom crust. I used extra virgin olive oil to line the pan, it sounded like people had good results with that. The outside of the dough just didn't get crispy though. Could this be a result of the pan I used and/or the oven not being hot enough?

3) I used white cheddar around the outside but it didn't crisp the same way the cheese does on Buddy's/Jet's pizzas. I put a fair amount of white cheddar around the edge of the pizza but instead of a delicate crispy cheese edge, I got a crunchy, almost burnt cheese edge. Maybe I was too heavy handed on the cheese around the outside?

If anyone has any thoughts, I would greatly appreciate it as I am craving some detroit-style pizza!

BigT · « **Reply #285 on:** January 31, 2011, 06:01:16 PM »

and one more question - how do you guys get your pies out of the pan?? maybe this is a function of my pie being so thin, but I could not think of anyway to get my pie out of the pan and still leave it in decent shape.

jkb · « **Reply #286 on:** February 04, 2011, 12:14:25 PM »

BigT:

I make sure that the perimeter isn't sticking to the pan freeing it with a paring knife if necessary. Then I use a fish spatula to lift one end until it clears the lip of the pan and slide the whole pie off the pan.

dicepackage · « **Reply #287 on:** February 04, 2011, 11:38:15 PM »

With all this effort I'm wondering why I am the first one to just try one of their doughs at home. I asked and was able to get a doughball used in a large pizza for four dollars. It wasn't any kind of bargain but I figured if it could help me out with my home recipe for Buddy's I am all for it. I meant to weigh the dough ball but in all my excitement I forgot, fortunately I got plenty of pictures. The dough felt very wet, not as bad as when I made the dough with 90-some percent hydration but it could have been in the 80's. I cooked the dough at 500 degrees for 16 minutes which was probably a little too long but it was still delicious.

dicepackage · « **Reply #288 on:** February 04, 2011, 11:41:02 PM »

More pictures

timrich10 · « **Reply #289 on:** February 05, 2011, 05:30:32 PM »

Hello. This is my first post.
I am a pizza lover and Buddy's is one of my favorites. I live in Reno NV now but grew up in Detroit and have family there and so we visit often.
I was in Buddy's on 13 Mile and Van Dyke about 2 years or so ago. The place was very crowded.
While waiting to be seated I saw a sign inside talking about Buddy's history and the older women who were cooks. Near that sign was another smaller sign that said the dough was made from a combination of rice, potatoe, and tapioca flour. The next time I went to Buddy's about a year ago that sign was gone. Does any one use or know if this combination of flours is used in any baking? I'm wondering if this is a hint to making their pizza dough. I scanned this thread and didn't see any mention of these flours. What daya think?

timrich10 · « **Reply #290 on:** February 05, 2011, 07:23:28 PM »

Got another question. Anyone ever try bacon grease on the bottom of pan to crisp the crust?

steel_baker · « **Reply #291 on:** February 05, 2011, 07:39:32 PM »

Quote from: timrich10 on February 05, 2011, 07:23:28 PM

Got another question. Anyone ever try bacon grease on the bottom of pan to crisp the crust?

Whoah, too much sat fat there. If you want to crisp it up, you need a cooking oil with a high smokepoint. I use peanut oil, have for years. Haven't found anything better. High smoke point so it retains it's flavor and doesn't get bitter like OO does in a really hot (I bake pizza at 475) oven. Peanut oil has a nice flavor too.

steel_baker

pjbear05 · « **Reply #292 on:** February 09, 2011, 06:39:08 PM »

Hello gang, been a while. I saw peanut oil mentioned for lubing your pans before putting in the dough, based on the higher smoke point, and something from my other cooking experiences kicked in.

Clarified butter. Melt butter over low heat. Skim or spoon off the white semi solid matter floating on top (the milk solids) and discard. Use the yellow clear middle layer for oiling pan. Discard the bottm layer (sediment).

Continental cooking does a lot of high temp frying in clarified butter-weiner and Jager schnitzel arew prime examples. The milk solids on top and sediment on the bottom lower the smoking point, which at higher temps will burn, screwing up the look and taste of things (burnt and burnt).

steel_baker · « **Reply #293 on:** February 09, 2011, 07:04:23 PM »

It also helps if you're using the same pans as Buddy's. The blue steel pans from PA products in Livonia. I use them for my pizza with peanut oil. That is how a regionally famous pizza restaurant in northeastern PA has always done it so that's what I did in replicating that pizza. Same baking technique that I'm sure Buddy's uses, oiled blue steel pans at high temps. I use a 12x17 blue steel baking pan at 475 degrees with 2 oz of peanut oil. The pans cool off quickly after the pizza is removed and I just leave what little oil is left in the pan. Occasionally need to scrape a pan side but other than that, they're nearly completely non-stick now. My pizza crisps up nicely.

steel_baker

Pete-zza · « **Reply #294 on:** February 09, 2011, 08:00:57 PM »

steel_baker,

I assume from your last post that you did not mean to say that Buddy's gets its blue steel pans from P.A. Products. According to a recent news item at http://www.freep.com/article/20110123/COL20/101230384/Shortage-of-steel-pans-has-Detroit-style-pizza-makers-scrambling, it appears that Buddy's may have been getting its pans from a source in West Virginia. When I called P.A. Products to learn more about their pans, I was abruptly informed that they were out of the blue steel pans. I tried, to no avail, to see if they would tell me if they made the pans for Buddy's or Jet's. They professed to have no idea as to the source of the Buddy's or Jet's pans.

Peter

steel_baker · « **Reply #295 on:** February 09, 2011, 08:30:46 PM »

Quote from: Pete-zza on February 09, 2011, 08:00:57 PM

steel_baker,

I assume from your last post that you did not mean to say that Buddy's gets its blue steel pans from P.A. Products. According to a recent news item at http://www.freep.com/article/20110123/COL20/101230384/Shortage-of-steel-pans-has-Detroit-style-pizza-makers-scrambling, it appears that Buddy's may have been getting its pans from a source in West Virginia. When I called P.A. Products to learn more about their pans, I was abruptly informed that they were out of the blue steel pans. I tried, to no avail, to see if they would tell me if they made the pans for Buddy's or Jet's. They professed to have no idea as to the source of the Buddy's or Jet's pans.

Peter

Actually, I did. I only assume that they have been using these pans as all 3 sizes of blue steel pans from PA products seem to line up with Buddy's pizza sizes & their proximity to Buddy's. That and the relative rarity of blue steel and the low price of PA's blue steel pans led me to believe that was the case. Buddy's is very similar to the pizza I make which is a replica of a regionally famous pizza restaurant in the area I grew up. That restaurant does use blue steel as I confirmed with the supply house they bought them from years ago. Regardless, having eaten Buddy's, I believe that their pizza is baked in blue steel (that and some of the pics with the woman carrying pans of spread & risen dough earlier in this thread).

I was not aware of any shortage of these pans. I ordered a dozen 12x17's for myself from PA products last year so I assumed nothing has changed. I guess I would have found when I tried to order some smaller pans (probably 8x10's) which I planned to do later this year.

My bad...

steel_baker

Pete-zza · « **Reply #296 on:** February 09, 2011, 11:49:20 PM »

steel_baker,

As I noted in item 3 in Reply 126 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg81436/topicseen.html#msg81436, I was told by Buddy's that their two pan sizes are 8" x 10" and 10" x 14". When I first became aware of P.A. Products (from another thread), and later when I got involved in reverse-engineering the Jet's pizza, I did not see blue steel pans of those sizes at their website. Either that or I completely missed them, although I recall scouring their pan products very carefully. When I revisited the P.A. Products website tonight, I see that the two Buddy's pan sizes are shown, at http://www.paprod.com/pans.html. So, you may well be correct that P.A. Products is a supplier of the steel pans to Buddy's despite the impression that the sales rep at P.A. Products gave me that he didn't know who supplied the pans to Buddy's. I wonder whether P.A. Products added the Buddy's pan sizes after I researched their pan offerings. Unfortunately, they don't carry the pan sizes that Jet's uses.

Peter

gschwim · « **Reply #297 on:** February 10, 2011, 12:21:28 AM »

I'm a little puzzled about the idea of letting the dough rise in the pans - not at home, but at the actual Buddy's locations. They must serve hundreds of pizzas a day. So they make dough from 8:00 a.m. to 11:00 a.m., at which they have literally hundreds of pizza pans, in two sizes, not knowing which sizes people will order, that they stack all over the kitchen, all day?

steel_baker · « **Reply #298 on:** February 10, 2011, 06:52:30 AM »

Quote from: gschwim on February 10, 2011, 12:21:28 AM

I'm a little puzzled about the idea of letting the dough rise in the pans - not at home, but at the actual Buddy's locations. They must serve hundreds of pizzas a day. So they make dough from 8:00 a.m. to 11:00 a.m., at which they have literally hundreds of pizza pans, in two sizes, not knowing which sizes people will order, that they stack all over the kitchen, all day?

I doubt that they stack them. They use commercial proofers that the trays slide into. These proofers control temp & humidity and come in various sizes holding 60 trays at a time in the large sizes. I'm sure they make an educated guess on how many of each different size tray they need every day. When they need to make a tray, they pull it from the proofer and top it so they always have trays ready to top & bake. here are some commercial proofers: http://www.aaacommercialproducts.com/Commercial-Bread-Dough-Oven-Proofer.html

steel_baker

Saturday Coffee · « **Reply #299 on:** February 24, 2011, 03:28:37 PM »

I worked at Shield's 16& VanDyke location in very briefly early 1980's. I recall the dough being placed in the pans and pepperoni was immediately put on top, then the pans of dough were set aside to "proof" on an open shelf. I guess if you ordered pizza without pepperoni, the kitchen staff would just pick them off as they started to make your pizza.