"Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's

[Pete-zza]

BigT,

Since the Bucket Outlet pans look like ones I saw a long time ago, I would say that "Parker" may refer to Dover in Parkersburg. However, you might seek confirmation of that by return email.

You might also consider calling Dover to get an update on the status of the blue steel pan situation. I noticed at http://www.doverparkersburg.com/products/utility_items.html that Dover is still offering utility pans, in the same sizes as noted at the Bucket Outlet website.

Peter

[SonnyC79]

Hello,

New member making my first post here!  I came upon this site looking for information on making Detroit style pizzas, and this thread has been IMMENSELY helpful, so I thank everyone for their contributions thus far.  I have never been to Detroit or Buddy's, in particular, but a Detroit-style pizza truck just opened here in Austin, TX (called Via 313 Pizza), and I fell instantly in love with their pizza and the style.  I don't know if I can post pictures yet, but I will try to share one of my photos of a Via 313 pizza on this post.  And before we slam them, yes, there are toppings on top...BUT only because I ordered the pizza with DOUBLE pepperoni (both under and above the cheese)!!

On to my first question...I received a couple of blue steel pans (ordered from Bucket Outlet) yesterday and immediately started the seasoning process.  I baked the pans for a couple of rounds brushed with shortening (Crisco) and/or canola oil.  I know that everyone has mentioned not to wash out the pans, but I just was hoping to get a little more detail about that process.  I pulled the pans out, let them cool, and just wiped them with a wet paper towel.  There is still a pretty sticky residue all over the pans.  Am I supposed to leave them this way, or should I be scraping that off with a stronger sponge?  It feels a bit off to leave that "mess" in the pan, but I totally understand if that is what helps get the desired crispy crust.  If I am to leave them this way, will they eventually wear down and erode?  Any info or help is appreciated, and I can't wait to try my first attempt this weekend!

[steel_baker]

On to my first question...I received a couple of blue steel pans (ordered from Bucket Outlet) yesterday and immediately started the seasoning process.  I baked the pans for a couple of rounds brushed with shortening (Crisco) and/or canola oil.  I know that everyone has mentioned not to wash out the pans, but I just was hoping to get a little more detail about that process.  I pulled the pans out, let them cool, and just wiped them with a wet paper towel.  There is still a pretty sticky residue all over the pans.  Am I supposed to leave them this way, or should I be scraping that off with a stronger sponge?  It feels a bit off to leave that "mess" in the pan, but I totally understand if that is what helps get the desired crispy crust.  If I am to leave them this way, will they eventually wear down and erode?  Any info or help is appreciated, and I can't wait to try my first attempt this weekend!

Leave them oily all the time. If anything sticks, just scrape it out. Don't ever...EVER let soap touch the inside of that pan. Hot water and a brush (just like cleaning cast iron) are OK but after doing that, make sure the pan is oily by adding a small amount of oil and wiping it around with a paper towel to maintain an oily coating on the pans.

The more you bake in it, the "slipperier" and more non-stick the pan will become. I bake in blue steel pans all the time, been doing it for several years now. After taking the pizza from the pan and it's cooled down, just dump out any excess oil, wipe with paper towel to remove excess, and put it away until next time. Simple as that.

[rpmfla]

I now have three different sizes of the Paderno World Cuisine blue steel pans! I purchased the 12 X 16 pan first but it is just my wife and I so when I made a Detroit Style pie with that one we'd have pizza for days (which is ok with me but not my wife...she can do once or twice a week so I can't complain). I then bought the small 9 x 12 pan and will use that for just "one off" pies for just that night. Then I went and purchased the 11 x 14. It is our "2 meal" pan.

I love each of these pans. They are very solid construction. The edges are just barely high enough for a Detroit Style (they are not as high as the traditional Detroit Style pans).

When I got the first one I came here for advice on how to season it. I had read somewhere else on the web that one should season the pans 6-7 times. This actually caused a problem as the second time I tried seasoning it the oil puddled a bit so there were dry spots, tacky spots and gooey spots. I ended up scraping the gooey spots off with a plastic spatula and the pan has worked great since.

The second pan I got I tried some grape seed oil as I had read it has a very high burning temperature. I just seasoned it with the oil, wiped it out a bit with a paper towel so there was just a nice thin coating inside and out, and placed it in a 350 degree oven for an hour. This worked well and nothing sticks to that pan...even the cheese at the edge of the Detroit Style.

The third pan I also seasoned with the grape seed oil and last night made my first pie in that one. I had been putting a tablespoon of oil in the pans before putting the dough in, but last night I forgot to do that and the pie still slid right out! Cool.

I would say that if your oil coating remains tacky or even gooey after seasoning in the oven, you either used too much oil or didn't keep it in the oven long enough. It is fine though and the more you use the pan the better it will release.

[SonnyC79]

Leave them oily all the time. If anything sticks, just scrape it out. Don't ever...EVER let soap touch the inside of that pan. Hot water and a brush (just like cleaning cast iron) are OK but after doing that, make sure the pan is oily by adding a small amount of oil and wiping it around with a paper towel to maintain an oily coating on the pans.

Thanks a lot for the information!  So, just to be clear, after "seasoning" the pan, I should remove anything that is sticky-ish?  It shouldn't be sticky at all?  As the other poster mentioned, maybe I didn't let it bake enough (I did 2 rounds...25 minutes with shortening and 25 minutes with canola oil).  Now I just hope I didn't mess up my two pans...

[rpmfla]

I really don't think you can mess it up. My pan was a mess with too much sticky oil so I just scraped off what I could with a plastic spatula and didn't do anything else. The pan works fine.

As I said, with my second and third pans I used a thinner coat of grape seed oil and it worked perfectly. I really don't think multiple seasonings are necessary as long as each time you actually use the pan put a little oil in it. Then afterwards the pizza slides out easily and you can just wipe it clean. If you do wash it, dry it thoroughly and wipe a thin coat of oil on it for storage.

At the local Detroit Style pizzeria they do not add any oil for cooking the pizzas, but his pans have been used hundreds of times so they are nearly black and very slick. The more you use it the better they get.

[steel_baker]

Thanks a lot for the information!  So, just to be clear, after "seasoning" the pan, I should remove anything that is sticky-ish?  It shouldn't be sticky at all?  As the other poster mentioned, maybe I didn't let it bake enough (I did 2 rounds...25 minutes with shortening and 25 minutes with canola oil).  Now I just hope I didn't mess up my two pans...

I wouldn't even worry about any sticky areas. Over time and with repeated bakings, the sticky areas will harden and become non-stick anyway. When I season pans, I like to season them at low temp (250F) for at least an hour or more. Sometimes I'll do that 2-3 times with baking in between. They key is to just use it..use it...use it. You'll get less sticking with each successive bake and by the 6th time or so, the pan will be virtually non-stick.

[rpmfla]

I would listen to steel_baker. After all, his forum name couldn't get much more specific to your issue!

I was going to choose "paranoid_about_peels/uses_parchment_for_NY_Style" for my forum name...a bit long and not nearly as cool as steel_baker.

[SonnyC79]

One more question has come up (that I had been meaning to ask)...

Is it possible to make this (PizzaHog's) dough without a stand mixer/dough hook?  Unfortunately, I don't own either.  I have a hand mixer, but no dough hooks.  Can you just knead the dough by hand?  From what it sounds like, the dough is pretty wet and pliable, so I imagine that hand kneading it would be tough...without adding a bunch of flour to it, at least.  Or should I try to find some dough hooks that I can attach to my hand mixer?  Any advice is appreciated!

[BigT]

I tried my first Detroit-style pizza using Pizza Hog's recipe. I had one major problem with it and I'm wondering if you guys can diagnose the problem. Since my blue steel pans have not arrived yet, I used my cast iron skillet. The pizza turned out decent except the bottom of the crust (the part that is in contact with the cast iron skillet) did not crisp up and remained a fairly pale color. Any ideas what might have caused this? Is this an oil issue (I used about 1.5 teaspoons just as the recipe calls for and brushed it on the bottom of the pan)? Is the cast iron too thick and thus not get hot enough to properly crisp the bottom of the crust?

The other minor issue is that the edges of the pizza (where I tried to create the caramelized cheese crust) created a ring of grease around the pizza from all the melted cheese. I had to dab it with a paper towel to mop it up. Is it possible that the white cheddar I used was too hard or something? Somehow too much oil gathered around the edges - either from the melted cheese or oil that I lined the sides of the pan with. I didn't use too much oil so I wouldn't think that is the issue.

SonnyC79 - glad that Detroit-syle pizza has made its way to Texas. As far as the toppings on top, that's still legit. Buddy's "Detroiter" pizza (the gold standard of Detroit-style pizza IMO) has pepperoni on top so that it crisps up nicely.

[rpmfla]

I would say that your cast iron pan took too long to get up to temp so never really cooked the bottom enough to brown it. A work around would be to finish it out of the pan directly on a (preheated) stone. This problem should go away when your new pans arrive. The other thing is that every oven is a bit different, so you might try a slightly lower temp for a longer time. I use the Paderno World Cuisine pans which are a bit thicker gauge than the traditional Detroit Style Pans so I adjusted by lowering the heat a bit (450) and bake the pie longer (16-20 minutes, depending on size and amount of ingredients).

As far as the greasy cheese issue, you may be right about the type of cheese you purchased. I usually use 100% Brick Cheese or 50/50 with mozz.

Have fun with your new pans.

[steel_baker]

I tried my first Detroit-style pizza using Pizza Hog's recipe. I had one major problem with it and I'm wondering if you guys can diagnose the problem. Since my blue steel pans have not arrived yet, I used my cast iron skillet. The pizza turned out decent except the bottom of the crust (the part that is in contact with the cast iron skillet) did not crisp up and remained a fairly pale color. Any ideas what might have caused this? Is this an oil issue (I used about 1.5 teaspoons just as the recipe calls for and brushed it on the bottom of the pan)? Is the cast iron too thick and thus not get hot enough to properly crisp the bottom of the crust?

The other minor issue is that the edges of the pizza (where I tried to create the caramelized cheese crust) created a ring of grease around the pizza from all the melted cheese. I had to dab it with a paper towel to mop it up. Is it possible that the white cheddar I used was too hard or something? Somehow too much oil gathered around the edges - either from the melted cheese or oil that I lined the sides of the pan with. I didn't use too much oil so I wouldn't think that is the issue.

SonnyC79 - glad that Detroit-syle pizza has made its way to Texas. As far as the toppings on top, that's still legit. Buddy's "Detroiter" pizza (the gold standard of Detroit-style pizza IMO) has pepperoni on top so that it crisps up nicely.

Before moving to blue steel pans several years ago (started with Paderno, moved to PA Products pans), I did all of my pizza baking in cast iron pans. Doesn't sound like your oven was hot enough. Although cast iron does take a little longer you'll find it still heats up fairly fast. I always baked mine at 475, bottom rack so that the blazing heat from the element was concentrated on the bottom. With this, I bake a typical sicilian in 10-12 minutes and can create a nice crispy cheese crust around the edges as desired. Every oven is different but this is how I was always able to bake mine and get nice browning. High heat, lower rack to concentrate the bottom heat.... that's my technique.

[BigT]

rpmfla and steel_baker - thanks for the tips, even if they are dueling responses. Intuitively, it seems like I need to go hotter. I couldn't let the last one bake longer as the cheese along the edge was beginning to burn, so I couldn't let it go much longer. Hopefully my pans arrive soon and this becomes a moot point.

Also, this will be a teaser of sorts, but I think I am going to have a couple interesting links to post within the next few days that those that have followed this thread will appreciate.

[SonnyC79]

I made my first Detroit-style pizza this weekend, too!  And I must say that it turned out AWESOME!!  Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread so far...the recipe was great, the personal experiences were interesting, and all of the tips helped to make my first pizza turn out perfect!  I actually typed up detailed step-by-step recipe/instructions for a friend of mine, so I thought that I would share that with the members of this thread.  I pretty much go step by step, with lots of photos of the assembly process, all based upon PizzaHog's dough recipe and other forum members' recommendations.  I uploaded the file to sendspace, and I believe that it will only be available for 30 days, but maybe it can still help some people out.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/a27552

[BigT]

Time for me to blow my cover. I have a small slice of the internet at a blog I run - Great Lakes, Better Food - that focuses on my food adventures in Michigan. A few weeks ago, the folks at the Pure Michigan ad campaign asked me to write a spot for their travel blog about anything I wanted that was uniquely Michigan. I figured there was no better topic that Detroit-style pizza. My post went up today:

http://www.michigan.org/blog/guest-blogger/all-square-a-history-of-detroit-style-pizza/

I was restricted to 500 words there, but I couldn't be limited to that, so I put an the extended cut on my blog:

http://greatlakesbetterfood.blogspot.com/2012/08/an-extended-look-at-all-square-history.html

There isn't much in these posts that you guys on here don't already know, but thought some of you  might be interested. Once I get my pizzas to turn out at home based on the suggestions here, I will post a recap on my blog.

[rpmfla]

rpmfla and steel_baker - thanks for the tips, even if they are dueling responses. Intuitively, it seems like I need to go hotter. I couldn't let the last one bake longer as the cheese along the edge was beginning to burn, so I couldn't let it go much longer. Hopefully my pans arrive soon and this becomes a moot point.

I don't think they are really "dueling responses". I told you what worked for me with the Paderno pans...lowering the heat a little and longer bakes...and steel_baker suggested moving the pan down to the lower section of the oven and raising the heat. Both ideas will work and neither discounts the other as incorrect. Often in the kitchen there is more than one way to improve a recipe.

If you just turned up the heat and placed your pan in the same place as you did before, I would guess that the top would overcook before your bottom browned.

As I said above, since steel_baker has focused on this style of pizza making (in pans) you should probably take his advice, but don't read "your oven probably wasn't hot enough" and ignore the "move your pan to the bottom of the oven" part.

When I suggested lowering the heat and longer bake times, this was from my own experience and resulted in a browned bottom without an overcooked top.

As you say, the point will be moot when your new pans arrive.

[BigT]

I don't think they are really "dueling responses". I told you what worked for me with the Paderno pans...lowering the heat a little and longer bakes...and steel_baker suggested moving the pan down to the lower section of the oven and raising the heat. Both ideas will work and neither discounts the other as incorrect. Often in the kitchen there is more than one way to improve a recipe.
As you say, the point will be moot when your new pans arrive.

Thanks again for all the info. I wasn't being too serious with the dueling responses comment, just teasing you guys a bit. I will move the pan down to the lowest position in the oven next time at a higher temp.

Speaking of the pans, not sure how I missed this but Detroit Style Pizza Co. (formerly Cloverleaf in St. Clair Shores and Clinton Township) is now selling what appear to be the official blue steel pans on their website for under $10.

http://detroitstylepizza.co/detroit-style-pizza-pans/

[steel_baker]

I don't think they are really "dueling responses". I told you what worked for me with the Paderno pans...lowering the heat a little and longer bakes...and steel_baker suggested moving the pan down to the lower section of the oven and raising the heat. Both ideas will work and neither discounts the other as incorrect. Often in the kitchen there is more than one way to improve a recipe.

If you just turned up the heat and placed your pan in the same place as you did before, I would guess that the top would overcook before your bottom browned.

As I said above, since steel_baker has focused on this style of pizza making (in pans) you should probably take his advice, but don't read "your oven probably wasn't hot enough" and ignore the "move your pan to the bottom of the oven" part.

When I suggested lowering the heat and longer bake times, this was from my own experience and resulted in a browned bottom without an overcooked top.

As you say, the point will be moot when your new pans arrive.

Exactly, everybody's ovens, pans, & techniques may be a little different and you have to find out what works for you specifically through trial & error. Continued "practice" at making pizza and striving to meet a target flavor, texture, and ease of preparation will allow you to focus your "trial & error" sessions on reproducing the exact characteristics you're looking for. In the long run, this makes you a more competent & consistent pizza baker. I learned through my process to weigh all of my ingredients into the recipe to make it repeatable & consistent from tray to tray. I'm not kidding when I say it took me 30 years to figure out the Victory Pig pizza that I reproduce. Not that I worked at it constantly during that time but it was always something I had wanted to do and had made several feeble attempts at it in the past.

Interesting point though (and it's one of the main reasons I read this thread) is that the preparation technique for the dough, pans, and baking are all very similar between Detroit Style & Victory Pig. Having only had Buddy's once, I stopped in Livonia to try it based specifically on what I had read in this thread, so I understand this pizza & it's flavor, albeit to a small degree only having had it once. I enjoyed what I had and may try to duplicate it myself in the future (with the benefit of this very mature thread).

I will be visiting my brother-in-law in Farmington Hills next month and I do plan to sample some more Buddy's as well as Jet's pizza. Hear so many raves about Jet's and from what I have seen of the style, it's another soft dough pizza that's baked in an oiled steel pan.

So many pizzas...... so little time.

 

[BigT]

I am going to go for my next attempt at replicating Buddy's this week based on the tips I've got so far. One more question - has any reverse engineered the italian seasoning blend/sauce that Buddy's uses? That is what sets Buddy's Detroiter apart from the rest for me.

[buceriasdon]

BigT, I noticed from the link these new pans are seasoned by the maker, no bluing. I find that interesting.

BigT wrote: Speaking of the pans, not sure how I missed this but Detroit Style Pizza Co. (formerly Cloverleaf in St. Clair Shores and Clinton Township) is now selling what appear to be the official blue steel pans on their website for under $10.

http://detroitstylepizza.co/detroit-style-pizza-pans/
 Don