Author Topic: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's  (Read 200229 times)

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Offline rpmfla

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #425 on: August 02, 2012, 04:07:21 PM »
I really don't think you can mess it up. My pan was a mess with too much sticky oil so I just scraped off what I could with a plastic spatula and didn't do anything else. The pan works fine.

As I said, with my second and third pans I used a thinner coat of grape seed oil and it worked perfectly. I really don't think multiple seasonings are necessary as long as each time you actually use the pan put a little oil in it. Then afterwards the pizza slides out easily and you can just wipe it clean. If you do wash it, dry it thoroughly and wipe a thin coat of oil on it for storage.

At the local Detroit Style pizzeria they do not add any oil for cooking the pizzas, but his pans have been used hundreds of times so they are nearly black and very slick. The more you use it the better they get.


Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #426 on: August 02, 2012, 04:24:08 PM »
Thanks a lot for the information!  So, just to be clear, after "seasoning" the pan, I should remove anything that is sticky-ish?  It shouldn't be sticky at all?  As the other poster mentioned, maybe I didn't let it bake enough (I did 2 rounds...25 minutes with shortening and 25 minutes with canola oil).  Now I just hope I didn't mess up my two pans...

I wouldn't even worry about any sticky areas. Over time and with repeated bakings, the sticky areas will harden and become non-stick anyway. When I season pans, I like to season them at low temp (250F) for at least an hour or more. Sometimes I'll do that 2-3 times with baking in between. They key is to just use it..use it...use it. You'll get less sticking with each successive bake and by the 6th time or so, the pan will be virtually non-stick.
steel_baker  :chef:

Offline rpmfla

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #427 on: August 02, 2012, 04:55:48 PM »
I would listen to steel_baker. After all, his forum name couldn't get much more specific to your issue!

I was going to choose "paranoid_about_peels/uses_parchment_for_NY_Style" for my forum name...a bit long and not nearly as cool as steel_baker.

Offline SonnyC79

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #428 on: August 03, 2012, 02:46:46 PM »
One more question has come up (that I had been meaning to ask)...

Is it possible to make this (PizzaHog's) dough without a stand mixer/dough hook?  Unfortunately, I don't own either.  I have a hand mixer, but no dough hooks.  Can you just knead the dough by hand?  From what it sounds like, the dough is pretty wet and pliable, so I imagine that hand kneading it would be tough...without adding a bunch of flour to it, at least.  Or should I try to find some dough hooks that I can attach to my hand mixer?  Any advice is appreciated!

Offline BigT

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #429 on: August 06, 2012, 10:36:57 AM »
I tried my first Detroit-style pizza using Pizza Hog's recipe. I had one major problem with it and I'm wondering if you guys can diagnose the problem. Since my blue steel pans have not arrived yet, I used my cast iron skillet. The pizza turned out decent except the bottom of the crust (the part that is in contact with the cast iron skillet) did not crisp up and remained a fairly pale color. Any ideas what might have caused this? Is this an oil issue (I used about 1.5 teaspoons just as the recipe calls for and brushed it on the bottom of the pan)? Is the cast iron too thick and thus not get hot enough to properly crisp the bottom of the crust?

The other minor issue is that the edges of the pizza (where I tried to create the caramelized cheese crust) created a ring of grease around the pizza from all the melted cheese. I had to dab it with a paper towel to mop it up. Is it possible that the white cheddar I used was too hard or something? Somehow too much oil gathered around the edges - either from the melted cheese or oil that I lined the sides of the pan with. I didn't use too much oil so I wouldn't think that is the issue.

SonnyC79 - glad that Detroit-syle pizza has made its way to Texas. As far as the toppings on top, that's still legit. Buddy's "Detroiter" pizza (the gold standard of Detroit-style pizza IMO) has pepperoni on top so that it crisps up nicely.

Offline rpmfla

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #430 on: August 06, 2012, 11:14:15 AM »
I would say that your cast iron pan took too long to get up to temp so never really cooked the bottom enough to brown it. A work around would be to finish it out of the pan directly on a (preheated) stone. This problem should go away when your new pans arrive. The other thing is that every oven is a bit different, so you might try a slightly lower temp for a longer time. I use the Paderno World Cuisine pans which are a bit thicker gauge than the traditional Detroit Style Pans so I adjusted by lowering the heat a bit (450) and bake the pie longer (16-20 minutes, depending on size and amount of ingredients).

As far as the greasy cheese issue, you may be right about the type of cheese you purchased. I usually use 100% Brick Cheese or 50/50 with mozz.

Have fun with your new pans.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 11:55:11 AM by rpmfla »

Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #431 on: August 06, 2012, 11:53:38 AM »
I tried my first Detroit-style pizza using Pizza Hog's recipe. I had one major problem with it and I'm wondering if you guys can diagnose the problem. Since my blue steel pans have not arrived yet, I used my cast iron skillet. The pizza turned out decent except the bottom of the crust (the part that is in contact with the cast iron skillet) did not crisp up and remained a fairly pale color. Any ideas what might have caused this? Is this an oil issue (I used about 1.5 teaspoons just as the recipe calls for and brushed it on the bottom of the pan)? Is the cast iron too thick and thus not get hot enough to properly crisp the bottom of the crust?

The other minor issue is that the edges of the pizza (where I tried to create the caramelized cheese crust) created a ring of grease around the pizza from all the melted cheese. I had to dab it with a paper towel to mop it up. Is it possible that the white cheddar I used was too hard or something? Somehow too much oil gathered around the edges - either from the melted cheese or oil that I lined the sides of the pan with. I didn't use too much oil so I wouldn't think that is the issue.

SonnyC79 - glad that Detroit-syle pizza has made its way to Texas. As far as the toppings on top, that's still legit. Buddy's "Detroiter" pizza (the gold standard of Detroit-style pizza IMO) has pepperoni on top so that it crisps up nicely.

Before moving to blue steel pans several years ago (started with Paderno, moved to PA Products pans), I did all of my pizza baking in cast iron pans. Doesn't sound like your oven was hot enough. Although cast iron does take a little longer you'll find it still heats up fairly fast. I always baked mine at 475, bottom rack so that the blazing heat from the element was concentrated on the bottom. With this, I bake a typical sicilian in 10-12 minutes and can create a nice crispy cheese crust around the edges as desired. Every oven is different but this is how I was always able to bake mine and get nice browning. High heat, lower rack to concentrate the bottom heat.... that's my technique.
steel_baker  :chef:

Offline BigT

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #432 on: August 06, 2012, 03:29:52 PM »
rpmfla and steel_baker - thanks for the tips, even if they are dueling responses. Intuitively, it seems like I need to go hotter. I couldn't let the last one bake longer as the cheese along the edge was beginning to burn, so I couldn't let it go much longer. Hopefully my pans arrive soon and this becomes a moot point.

Also, this will be a teaser of sorts, but I think I am going to have a couple interesting links to post within the next few days that those that have followed this thread will appreciate.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 03:38:07 PM by BigT »

Offline SonnyC79

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #433 on: August 06, 2012, 03:56:52 PM »
I made my first Detroit-style pizza this weekend, too!  And I must say that it turned out AWESOME!!  Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread so far...the recipe was great, the personal experiences were interesting, and all of the tips helped to make my first pizza turn out perfect!  I actually typed up detailed step-by-step recipe/instructions for a friend of mine, so I thought that I would share that with the members of this thread.  I pretty much go step by step, with lots of photos of the assembly process, all based upon PizzaHog's dough recipe and other forum members' recommendations.  I uploaded the file to sendspace, and I believe that it will only be available for 30 days, but maybe it can still help some people out.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/a27552


Offline BigT

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #434 on: August 07, 2012, 08:59:21 AM »



Time for me to blow my cover. I have a small slice of the internet at a blog I run - Great Lakes, Better Food - that focuses on my food adventures in Michigan. A few weeks ago, the folks at the Pure Michigan ad campaign asked me to write a spot for their travel blog about anything I wanted that was uniquely Michigan. I figured there was no better topic that Detroit-style pizza. My post went up today:

http://www.michigan.org/blog/guest-blogger/all-square-a-history-of-detroit-style-pizza/

I was restricted to 500 words there, but I couldn't be limited to that, so I put an the extended cut on my blog:

http://greatlakesbetterfood.blogspot.com/2012/08/an-extended-look-at-all-square-history.html

There isn't much in these posts that you guys on here don't already know, but thought some of you  might be interested. Once I get my pizzas to turn out at home based on the suggestions here, I will post a recap on my blog.

Offline rpmfla

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #435 on: August 07, 2012, 09:26:01 AM »
rpmfla and steel_baker - thanks for the tips, even if they are dueling responses. Intuitively, it seems like I need to go hotter. I couldn't let the last one bake longer as the cheese along the edge was beginning to burn, so I couldn't let it go much longer. Hopefully my pans arrive soon and this becomes a moot point.

I don't think they are really "dueling responses". I told you what worked for me with the Paderno pans...lowering the heat a little and longer bakes...and steel_baker suggested moving the pan down to the lower section of the oven and raising the heat. Both ideas will work and neither discounts the other as incorrect. Often in the kitchen there is more than one way to improve a recipe.

If you just turned up the heat and placed your pan in the same place as you did before, I would guess that the top would overcook before your bottom browned.

As I said above, since steel_baker has focused on this style of pizza making (in pans) you should probably take his advice, but don't read "your oven probably wasn't hot enough" and ignore the "move your pan to the bottom of the oven" part.

When I suggested lowering the heat and longer bake times, this was from my own experience and resulted in a browned bottom without an overcooked top.

As you say, the point will be moot when your new pans arrive.

Offline BigT

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #436 on: August 07, 2012, 09:34:48 AM »
I don't think they are really "dueling responses". I told you what worked for me with the Paderno pans...lowering the heat a little and longer bakes...and steel_baker suggested moving the pan down to the lower section of the oven and raising the heat. Both ideas will work and neither discounts the other as incorrect. Often in the kitchen there is more than one way to improve a recipe.
As you say, the point will be moot when your new pans arrive.

Thanks again for all the info. I wasn't being too serious with the dueling responses comment, just teasing you guys a bit. I will move the pan down to the lowest position in the oven next time at a higher temp.

Speaking of the pans, not sure how I missed this but Detroit Style Pizza Co. (formerly Cloverleaf in St. Clair Shores and Clinton Township) is now selling what appear to be the official blue steel pans on their website for under $10.

http://detroitstylepizza.co/detroit-style-pizza-pans/

Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #437 on: August 07, 2012, 09:47:47 AM »
I don't think they are really "dueling responses". I told you what worked for me with the Paderno pans...lowering the heat a little and longer bakes...and steel_baker suggested moving the pan down to the lower section of the oven and raising the heat. Both ideas will work and neither discounts the other as incorrect. Often in the kitchen there is more than one way to improve a recipe.

If you just turned up the heat and placed your pan in the same place as you did before, I would guess that the top would overcook before your bottom browned.

As I said above, since steel_baker has focused on this style of pizza making (in pans) you should probably take his advice, but don't read "your oven probably wasn't hot enough" and ignore the "move your pan to the bottom of the oven" part.

When I suggested lowering the heat and longer bake times, this was from my own experience and resulted in a browned bottom without an overcooked top.

As you say, the point will be moot when your new pans arrive.

Exactly, everybody's ovens, pans, & techniques may be a little different and you have to find out what works for you specifically through trial & error. Continued "practice" at making pizza and striving to meet a target flavor, texture, and ease of preparation will allow you to focus your "trial & error" sessions on reproducing the exact characteristics you're looking for. In the long run, this makes you a more competent & consistent pizza baker. I learned through my process to weigh all of my ingredients into the recipe to make it repeatable & consistent from tray to tray. I'm not kidding when I say it took me 30 years to figure out the Victory Pig pizza that I reproduce. Not that I worked at it constantly during that time but it was always something I had wanted to do and had made several feeble attempts at it in the past.

Interesting point though (and it's one of the main reasons I read this thread) is that the preparation technique for the dough, pans, and baking are all very similar between Detroit Style & Victory Pig. Having only had Buddy's once, I stopped in Livonia to try it based specifically on what I had read in this thread, so I understand this pizza & it's flavor, albeit to a small degree only having had it once. I enjoyed what I had and may try to duplicate it myself in the future (with the benefit of this very mature thread).

I will be visiting my brother-in-law in Farmington Hills next month and I do plan to sample some more Buddy's as well as Jet's pizza. Hear so many raves about Jet's and from what I have seen of the style, it's another soft dough pizza that's baked in an oiled steel pan.

So many pizzas...... so little time.

 :chef:
steel_baker  :chef:

Offline BigT

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #438 on: August 08, 2012, 09:10:31 AM »
I am going to go for my next attempt at replicating Buddy's this week based on the tips I've got so far. One more question - has any reverse engineered the italian seasoning blend/sauce that Buddy's uses? That is what sets Buddy's Detroiter apart from the rest for me.

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #439 on: August 08, 2012, 09:45:05 AM »
BigT, I noticed from the link these new pans are seasoned by the maker, no bluing. I find that interesting.

BigT wrote: Speaking of the pans, not sure how I missed this but Detroit Style Pizza Co. (formerly Cloverleaf in St. Clair Shores and Clinton Township) is now selling what appear to be the official blue steel pans on their website for under $10.

http://detroitstylepizza.co/detroit-style-pizza-pans/
 Don
 










Offline SonnyC79

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #440 on: August 08, 2012, 11:49:14 AM »
BigT, I noticed from the link these new pans are seasoned by the maker, no bluing. I find that interesting.

BigT wrote: Speaking of the pans, not sure how I missed this but Detroit Style Pizza Co. (formerly Cloverleaf in St. Clair Shores and Clinton Township) is now selling what appear to be the official blue steel pans on their website for under $10.

http://detroitstylepizza.co/detroit-style-pizza-pans/
 Don
 

Don, are you implying that this is a bad thing?  I have no idea either way.  I really am just curious as to what you mean by "interesting."  I was thinking of ordering a couple of these pans just to see how well they work.

buceriasdon

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #441 on: August 08, 2012, 01:05:49 PM »
Nope, I'm not implying preseasoned rather than bluing is a bad thing. In fact it's better because you don't have to season the pan yourself as you would with a blued pan. I just happen to believe the term "blued pans" will be around for a long time. A blued pan is not seasoned, these are. The bluing process is only for rust prevention, it does not create a nonstick surface.
Don
« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 01:10:41 PM by buceriasdon »


Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #442 on: August 08, 2012, 01:11:04 PM »
Nope, I'm not implying preseasoned rather than bluing is a bad thing. In fact it's better because you don't have to season the pan yourself as you would with a blued pan. I just happen to believe the term "blued pans" will be around for a long time. A blued pan is not seasoned, these are.
Don

The "Blue" on blue steel pans is a coating that is applied to inhibit oxidation (rusting) of the pan in normal daily use, nothing more. The unique characteristic of blue steel pizza pans is that they are made of very light gauge steel so they heat up very quickly & evenly allowing the heat of the oven to reach the pizza crust more quickly. When I used Paderno blue steel pans, my trays of pizza used to take 12-15 minutes to bake as opposed to the 10-12 minutes that it takes with the 12x17 blue steel pans I now use. The Paderno pans are of course a noticeably heavier gauge of steel.
steel_baker  :chef:

Offline BigT

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #443 on: August 09, 2012, 07:43:54 PM »
My pans just arrived and I've been scrubbing them for about an hour trying to get that silvery/grey residue off of them. Are there any tips for that? As of right now, these don't look like anything I would want to eat out of. Every time I think i have it cleaned off, I take a paper towel to wipe it out and it comes out with a lot of that residue on it.

Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #444 on: August 09, 2012, 07:54:09 PM »
My pans just arrived and I've been scrubbing them for about an hour trying to get that silvery/grey residue off of them. Are there any tips for that? As of right now, these don't look like anything I would want to eat out of. Every time I think i have it cleaned off, I take a paper towel to wipe it out and it comes out with a lot of that residue on it.

Having never purchased pre-seasoned blue steel pans I don't know what they would have put on them to season them. My pans from PA products came with a light coating of some kind of oil (light machine oil?) on them. It took some scrubbing with a good grease cutting dish detergent (like Dawn) and a sponge to get it clean and ready for my seasoning.

I'd say be patient and just keep doing what you're doing. Eventually the paper towel will come out clean.
steel_baker  :chef:

Offline BigT

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #445 on: August 09, 2012, 07:57:27 PM »
Having never purchased pre-seasoned blue steel pans I don't know what they would have put on them to season them. My pans from PA products came with a light coating of some kind of oil (light machine oil?) on them. It took some scrubbing with a good grease cutting dish detergent (like Dawn) and a sponge to get it clean and ready for my seasoning.

I'd say be patient and just keep doing what you're doing. Eventually the paper towel will come out clean.

Thanks. Just to be clear, I didn't buy the pre-seasoned ones - I found the link to those after I had already ordered mine.

Offline balthisar

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #446 on: August 12, 2012, 01:50:58 AM »
Speaking of the pans, not sure how I missed this but Detroit Style Pizza Co. (formerly Cloverleaf in St. Clair Shores and Clinton Township) is now selling what appear to be the official blue steel pans on their website for under $10.
I hate to go a bit off topic, but I'm following this thread from China. Did Cloverleaf become Detroit Style Pizza Co.? I assume the Eastpointe Cloverleaf restaurant is still Cloverleaf. I was never really sure what the deal with the take-out Cloverleafs (Cloverleaves?) really was -- the Clinton Twp location certainly didn't make the same pies as the store on Gratiot.

I'm going to try a Detroit pie today. I've got my Roselli blue steel pans, my German yeast, and my Chinese dumpling flour, and imported American cheese. Wish me luck!

Offline shuboyje

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #447 on: August 12, 2012, 04:26:01 PM »
Yes the carryout locations that used to be cloverleaf are now Detroit Style Pizza Co., but the original Cloverleaf is still there on Gratiot making what is said to be the most authentic version of the original Buddy's recipe. 
-Jeff

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #448 on: August 26, 2012, 11:23:09 AM »
Enjoyed your blog BigT!  Couldn't help but notice the black cheese crust on every pie shown though.  Oh well...  Had a chance to try a Loui's and Det Pizza Co. recently.  Maybe Loui just had a bad dough day, was disappointing.  Det Pizza was better.
NOTE:  I still have some of the Roselli black steel pans (10x14) if anyone wants some.  $6.75 ea and will be happy to ship 'em your way. 

Offline SonnyC79

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #449 on: August 31, 2012, 09:45:14 AM »
Just a heads up to anyone who is/was interested...I received my pre-seasoned (by the seller) pans from Detroit Style Pizza Co. late last week.  They look great!  They cost about the same as the ones that I bought from Bucket Outlet, but saved me the trouble of having to season them myself, which was nice.  I can't wait to try them out!  ;D


 

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