Author Topic: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's  (Read 209563 times)

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Offline Jake77

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #50 on: February 04, 2009, 06:09:29 PM »
I'm from the Flint area and I gotta admit I never knew there was such a thing as "Detroit Style" pizza, but I have eaten many copies of the very one you are trying to make up in that part of the state. I always thought it was called deep dish or pan pizza. The local place I worked in didn't make a Buddy's copy or I'd shoot the recipe out there for you. Does Buddy's still give free Pizza to Ticket holders if the Pistons score over 100 and win? I know that was like 20 years ago but some things stay the same. I don't live in Michigan anymore.

Also if you get it right or close enough or aw heck I gotta try this ;D, I will definitely serve it for my Super Bowl party next year when the Lions are in it.... Okay back to reality, in the spring when the Wings win the cup again.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 06:16:54 PM by Jake77 »


Offline GIBBY

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #51 on: February 04, 2009, 06:43:11 PM »
Geez Pizzahog, now you have me thinking. On faith alone I bought the 25# box of Margherita pepperoni but it was thin sliced-AAARRRGGGHHH!!!! I'm wondering if Buddy's actually takes the time to slice the sticks or do they have it special ordered? I know that the slices on their pizza is much thicker than what I bought. The Tuma brand Muenster cheese I used is very close but might need a little of somehthing else, maybe some Mozzarella. Someone on this site said Kraft makes the cheese blend just for Buddy"s. Wouldn't that be a kick in the butt that we couldn't get it? The pics of your pie seem a little on the thick side-maybe a little less dough and shove the dough up the sides and into the corners before putting on the stuff.. Looks tasty though.

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #52 on: February 04, 2009, 07:22:13 PM »
LOL Lions win the superbowl... I didn't know just the best square pizza in town had a name either till recently. 
Definitely agree the pep is cut thick Gibby.  I'll have to give the tuma a try.  Lot's of work to do with the dough but have some ideas...

Offline pjbear05

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #53 on: February 04, 2009, 08:15:23 PM »
OK I gave it a shot for the Superbowl aand here's my output

Dough:  Water, ADY, sugar, proof for 10 min..  KABF (Albertson's sell 5 lb bags) & salt, first mix.  Add 50/50 mixture Olive oil/butter, 2nd mix.  Turn out and 1st knead 10 min. form ball, into bowl, cover, warm place for  20 min., then in the 'frige overnight. Next day, knead again, back in the bowl, cover leave out at room temp.'til double.

  Grease pan with butter-period.  Black steel, or black enameled steel pans rule here for sure. 

Dough, cheese, topping, sauce, oven, scarf down.

Cheese: 2/3rd's Pollyo Whole Milk Mozz,1/3 Boar's Head Muenster-only OK-I need to find some Wisconsin Brick in South FL.

Sauce-Oh crap, in a jar started with an S, bought at a reatiler in Italian Foods-thicker than Cento,  thinner the Del Fratelli, but it was good-not too sweet and spiced just a touch

Topps. 1/2 pepp & virginia ham, 1/2 Hawaiian for the wife.

Dough a litlle heavy- outside of that and the cheese, my half still disappeared. Karen at 3/4's and saved the last for lunch next day.

Oh well, back to reading dough threads and cheese hunting.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 08:17:07 PM by pjbear05 »
"Aw, Paulie?  You won't see him no more!"

Offline GIBBY

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #54 on: February 04, 2009, 08:28:43 PM »
O.K. Can everyone hear me beating my skull against the wall??? I should have read more into the Buddy's website description. Margherita brand pepperoni has a fine ground and a COARSE GROUND Duh!! I went to the Armour Ekrich website and will attempt to get where-to-buy info. But I still have a little less than 25# of thin fine ground left to use. Not that it's bad or anything but I'm seriously trying to recreate Buddy's flavor and the different grind may have something to do with that. The pepperoini is almost three times thicker than what I have now and about 1/4 th smaller in diameter. The hunt continues.....
« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 08:30:36 PM by GIBBY »

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #55 on: February 06, 2009, 06:44:09 PM »
Easy there Gibby, no pizza related head injuries!  I didn't realize Margherita had 2 types and now I'm wondering what I used (all gone now, I'll never know), bit I will also look for the coarse ground.  I just bought the sticks so I could slice it thick, which I did, but it still didn't seem to have the level of flavor I expected.  If I find the coarse I will post where.
Hey, you can always put the thin sliced you have on top of the cheese.  I know it's not what you're going for, but thin peperoni all curled up and even a little burnt on the edge is mighty tasty.
Someone told me about an excellent pizza they had in Romeo from a place called Tomato Basil.  Sounds like you might be from around that neck of the woods.  Ever heard of it?

Offline GIBBY

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #56 on: February 07, 2009, 11:15:25 PM »
No, I haven't heard of it though I could probably take a ride by on my way home from work. It's most likely downtown/ main drag.

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #57 on: February 10, 2009, 08:20:06 PM »
Version 1.03.  Finally got the crunch, TF, and the best texture so far.  Experimentation continues...

Offline steverino

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #58 on: February 11, 2009, 02:19:31 PM »
PizzaHog-

Just a couple of tips from memory - I remember putting a couple of tablespoons of butter in the bottom of the pan, then putting the pan in the oven to melt the butter.  Than, I lay the dough into the pan, and spread it out.  In the process, some of the butter will leak up over the top.  I recall letting the dough rise for maybe half an hour, until it puffed up some.  Now, I put it into the hot oven on a pizza stone, for about 5 or 6 minutes.  The dough pulls away from the sides of the pan to form maybe an 1/8" - 1/4" gap. NOW, put on your meat, shrooms, etc. then GLOM on the cheese. Make sure the cheese goes all the way to the edges, and build it up a little around the rim, so as it melts, it fills in the gap.  The sauce technique I've had good luck with is to take a can of diced tomato, drain it well, put it in a blender, add some salt, pepper, oregano and garlic powder.  Whir it a bit, and taste it!  Adjust seasonings as necessary for your palate.  I like the sauce a little chunky, not pureed.  Lay the sauce generously on top, return to the oven.  If I recall correctly, I go about another 10 minutes on the stone, then move it up to the rack to finish.

I'm sorry if this is less than a tutorial, but I really go a lot by feel and taste.  I've achieved damn near a Loui's pizza using this method.  Perhaps this weekend I will go all out and document every step along the way, from dough to slice.  My wife would have to be involved in the process, which would probably make her nuts, which would, in turn, entertain me.

Oh wait - it's Valentine's Day Saturday. 

Hmmmmm.... could be a tough sell.  We'll see.

Love, peace, and pepperoni grease.

Steve

ETA:  It looks like you're kicking some serious ass already, however..
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 02:21:27 PM by steverino »


Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #59 on: February 11, 2009, 02:31:09 PM »
Hey Steverino
Thanks for the tips, and I must be following in your footsteps since a lot of what you did is fairly close to what I did on the last attempt.
Now, if you could find it in your (and your lovely wife's) schedule and pizza laden heart to record all the details, well I for one would be eternally grateful.
I am still trying diff cheeses, tweaking the sauce, and altering the dough recipe, and the last pie was way better than the first, although not close enough to Loui's to post a recipe yet.  But with your tips and help, maybe soon...
Save a corner for me,
Hog

Offline steverino

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #60 on: February 13, 2009, 04:33:03 PM »
Hey Hog-

Here's a link to a pretty cool older Detroit style thread here:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1535.0.html

This weekend looks like a bust - my wife and her girlfriend are taking my buddy and I out for a movie and Surf n' Turf Saturday night.  As much as I love my pizza, I can't bitch about that!

Peace,

Steve

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #61 on: February 13, 2009, 06:57:28 PM »
Steverino
No problemo and you guys have yourself a great time and enjoy your cow and bugs.  Had me some good cow a couple of days ago myself.  But last night it was another pizza and I think I am finally on to something.  Not sure what though.  It does seem to have some of the qualities of a Loui's, except on steroids.  I actually really liked it.  Crisp and chewy, then airy and tender, then a bit soft and mushy on the very top.  Didn't absorb all the pan lube like the prev doughs, so was a bit greasy.  I'll be tweaking on this version and see what happens.
Later
Hog

Offline jeff v

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #62 on: February 13, 2009, 08:44:07 PM »
pizzahog,

I really like how open that crumb is in your latest attempt-it looks great. Care to share your latest recipe?

Thanks,

Jeff
Back to being a civilian pizza maker only.

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #63 on: February 14, 2009, 12:37:52 PM »
Sure Jeff, as a newbie I am honored you asked.  This turned into one of those rush jobs and I do not yet have a scale.  In each successive experiment I have been raising the hydration, and if I understand the math correctly, this was something around 90%.

3/4 Cup + 1 Tblsp + 2 tsp water (95 degrees)
1 3/4 Cups flour (KAAP Organic, measured textbook method)
1/2 tsp IDY (Fleischmans)
1 tsp salt

Dissolved salt & water in KA bowl with dough hook attached, added IDY and all but 1/4 cup flour, mixed on stir speed 2 min to combine, covered for 20 minute rest, added last 1/4 C flour, wet kneaded on 1st speed for 8 minutes.  "poured" into greased 10 x 14 in black steel pan and spread, covered, proofed for 2 1/2 hours (prob around 80 degrees), prebaked on lowest rack of 500 degree preheated oven for 9 minutes, topped, then back on same rack for 7 minutes.  As soon as it stopped bubbling and sizzling, removed to cooling rack.
At the rest period I noticed this dough, if you can call it that, resembled the minnow bait we made as kids it was so wet, which was my second thought.  My first thought was "this ain't gonna work".  I was afraid this batter would just displace and push all the oil out from underneath once it hit the pan and I was expecting failure, so what the heck - I put the pan in the fridge for 5 minutes, then spread Smart Balance margarine all over the bottom.  I hoped was this would keep it under the dough to help achieve a fry, which worked, but it also added a flavor component and left the bottom greasy.  This was the only thing I did not measure, but it was 2 Tablespoons or so, maybe more.  I forgot to take the temp of the finished dough, but all previous experiments were 10 degrees less than the starting water temp.
Spreading this structural adhesive in the pan was a challenge at first.  With oiled and moistened finger tips I found just nudging it ever so lightly about an eighth-quarter inch at a time did the trick and then only took a few minutes.  No spring back with this goop.   
We have one tiny room in the house that gets so warm we keep the heat register closed.  I opened it up, bumped the thermostat up 2 degrees and put the pan in to proof and rush, and I would say this room is then quickly a good 10 degrees above the rest of the house.  Surprise!  It actually did rise and at 2 1/2 hours, some largish alveoles were visible at the surface although not actually bubbled up.
The texture of this test was the winner for me, not bready in any way which was one goal, and a nice mix of crisp, chewy, tender and moist.  The flavor of the dough remains a question mark as it was marred by all that margarine and I completely covered it with Casalinga, so couldn't really find any unflavored dough to taste even though I deconstructed a few slices.  But I would say it was pleasant and am encouraged enough to use this basic recipe to continue experimentation under unrushed and more controlled conditions now that I know it works and was my best pizza to date.
We shall see...
Hog

 

 

Offline steverino

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #64 on: February 14, 2009, 02:03:40 PM »
Hog -
Looks freakin' delicioso!  Nice crumb, and looks like nice crunch too.  Getting ready to head out for movie and "cow and bug"....

Best,

steve

Offline jeff v

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #65 on: February 14, 2009, 04:13:31 PM »
Sure Jeff, as a newbie I am honored you asked.  This turned into one of those rush jobs and I do not yet have a scale.  In each successive experiment I have been raising the hydration, and if I understand the math correctly, this was something around 90%.

3/4 Cup + 1 Tblsp + 2 tsp water (95 degrees)
1 3/4 Cups flour (KAAP Organic, measured textbook method)
1/2 tsp IDY (Fleischmans)
1 tsp salt

Dissolved salt & water in KA bowl with dough hook attached, added IDY and all but 1/4 cup flour, mixed on stir speed 2 min to combine, covered for 20 minute rest, added last 1/4 C flour, wet kneaded on 1st speed for 8 minutes.  "poured" into greased 10 x 14 in black steel pan and spread, covered, proofed for 2 1/2 hours (prob around 80 degrees), prebaked on lowest rack of 500 degree preheated oven for 9 minutes, topped, then back on same rack for 7 minutes.  As soon as it stopped bubbling and sizzling, removed to cooling rack.
At the rest period I noticed this dough, if you can call it that, resembled the minnow bait we made as kids it was so wet, which was my second thought.  My first thought was "this ain't gonna work".  I was afraid this batter would just displace and push all the oil out from underneath once it hit the pan and I was expecting failure, so what the heck - I put the pan in the fridge for 5 minutes, then spread Smart Balance margarine all over the bottom.  I hoped was this would keep it under the dough to help achieve a fry, which worked, but it also added a flavor component and left the bottom greasy.  This was the only thing I did not measure, but it was 2 Tablespoons or so, maybe more.  I forgot to take the temp of the finished dough, but all previous experiments were 10 degrees less than the starting water temp.
Spreading this structural adhesive in the pan was a challenge at first.  With oiled and moistened finger tips I found just nudging it ever so lightly about an eighth-quarter inch at a time did the trick and then only took a few minutes.  No spring back with this goop.   
We have one tiny room in the house that gets so warm we keep the heat register closed.  I opened it up, bumped the thermostat up 2 degrees and put the pan in to proof and rush, and I would say this room is then quickly a good 10 degrees above the rest of the house.  Surprise!  It actually did rise and at 2 1/2 hours, some largish alveoles were visible at the surface although not actually bubbled up.
The texture of this test was the winner for me, not bready in any way which was one goal, and a nice mix of crisp, chewy, tender and moist.  The flavor of the dough remains a question mark as it was marred by all that margarine and I completely covered it with Casalinga, so couldn't really find any unflavored dough to taste even though I deconstructed a few slices.  But I would say it was pleasant and am encouraged enough to use this basic recipe to continue experimentation under unrushed and more controlled conditions now that I know it works and was my best pizza to date.
We shall see...
Hog

 

 

Thanks for the insight, and I am looking forward to your next experiments. This last pizza looked like a big leap forward from your previous attempts-should get fun now huh?! Regadring flavor-I have never had either of the pizzas metioned in this thread, so I can't be of help there. However there are some pretty simple things you can do to get a more flavorful crusts if that's the way you want to go.

The texture you mentioned is key for me too, I don't like when a Sicillian has a dense bready texture. I may steal some of this recipe (particularly the prebake) and give it a go if you don't mind. If I do I'll post my observations.

Jeff

P.S. Throw that Smart Balance away-it's almost plastic!   >:D  :-D

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Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #66 on: February 15, 2009, 12:20:36 PM »
Yea Jeff, the Smart Balance inspiration was not a good one.  I didn't even know we had it the fridge which should have been an indicator of it's age.  But as it is 36% plastic by weight (not including the container) I doubt age was the factor, but it's lack of past use should have been a clue.  By all means please have your way with any part of this experiment!  I selfishly look forward to any experiences you might share to aid in my stumbling attempts.
Steverino, hope your dinner was killer and once the protein and iodine aftereffects wear off I'm hoping the pizza crave quickly takes over.  And thanks to both for the kind words and help.
But now I have a dilemma.  Reading about but never having eaten a NY or Neapolitan (I'm geographically challenged), yesterday's lunch was at the closest of the few places in the area that claim this style.  I would guess that in comparison to those created by the many accomplished pizzaiolos here like you two and the known best in class pizzarias the pies we had would rate 5 of 10.  But we were both blown away!  Whoda thunk such a thin and sparsely topped pizza could be so uniquely tasty and immediately addictive.  And I thought I knew a thing or two about pizza...fuggitaboutit!!!!
So I will continue with this experiment but have already commandeered a never used but decent quality pizza stone from my parent's to go with my never used department store type stone I received as a gift years ago and have been scouring the NY thread.  I can only imagine what a true NY or Nea pie is like but I plan to attempt to find out.
The fun continues...
Hog


Offline GIBBY

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #67 on: February 16, 2009, 05:31:05 PM »
Steverino
No problemo and you guys have yourself a great time and enjoy your cow and bugs.  Had me some good cow a couple of days ago myself.  But last night it was another pizza and I think I am finally on to something.  Not sure what though.  It does seem to have some of the qualities of a Loui's, except on steroids.  I actually really liked it.  Crisp and chewy, then airy and tender, then a bit soft and mushy on the very top.  Didn't absorb all the pan lube like the prev doughs, so was a bit greasy.  I'll be tweaking on this version and see what happens.
Later
Hog
We did pies yesterday afternoon and came out pretty well. Pepperoni, pepp with ham, pepp with mushrooms,green peppers,onions,tomatoes. Six pies total. The dough still needs some tweaking. It might need more yeast or less flour. My mom suggested a teaspoon of sugar to help the yeast along. Getting closer every time. I might need to try the butter in the bottom instead of veg oil or olive. I was thinking I might heat the butter and take out most of the fat-kinda like drawn butter for lobster and see what happens. Might have the buttery taste. Buddy's is a little greasy but that's part of the charm.  My wife and I probably need to work on the rising and proofing to get those larger air bubbles in the dough. I'm currently looking at this shredder  called the King Kutter to do the cheese. Costs about $120 or so depending where you buy it. I can see that this home pizza thing will get big in the summer-probably close to 15 folks over and I'm lazy so the shredder will fit the bill. And maybe a new mixer ;D :chef:

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #68 on: February 17, 2009, 07:05:05 PM »
Your pizzas sound great Gibby.  But why spend $120 on a cheese shredder when you have all those guests over for your homemade pizza?  Give each one a turn for a few minutes with a hand shredder and you can still be lazy, save some $$, and could be sorta fun.  Make 'em work for their pizza, I say!
As far as the dough goes, I'm thinking high hydration is part of the formula after that last pie.  I'm starting to like my sauce but not happy with any cheeses tried yet.  We'll see what the next one comes out like.   :'( :pizza: :o

Offline GIBBY

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #69 on: February 17, 2009, 07:55:50 PM »
Gives me an excuse to spend some money, and besides, my relatives are slow and I'm really impatient. Still need a scale too!! ;)

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #70 on: February 21, 2009, 10:43:03 AM »
Steverino, Gibby, MWTC and anyone else in the Detroit area, check out this post.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8012.0.html

Might be worth a looksee.
Hog

Offline jeff v

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #71 on: February 22, 2009, 08:11:15 PM »
PizzaHog,

Glad to see you trying the NY/Neo pizza.

I made the recipe you shared, and it was very good. A "conversation" with my wife about the volume of pics on our camera led to her deleteing everything including the photo evidence of this experiment.  :'(  I did do a couple of things different that I wanted to share...

I used cold flour, ice cold water and after the time in the mixer I stuck the dough in the fridge for 48 hours. This really helped with the flavor of the crust. Also since I was all out of Smart Balance  :P I used butter to grease the pan which was good, but it toasted more than fried-guess I didn't use enough.

Anywho thanks for sharing the recipe, and I will be making it or something like it again.

Best,

Jeff

Edited to fix typo.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2009, 01:30:30 PM by jeff v »
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Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #72 on: February 23, 2009, 12:02:28 PM »
Quote
I made the recipe you shared, and it was very good. A "coversation" with my wife about the volume of pics on our camera led to her deleteing everything including the photo evidence of this experiment.  I did do a couple of things different that I wanted to share...

I used cold flour, ice cold water and after the time in the mixer I stuck the dough in the fridge for 48 hours. This really helped with the flavor of the crust. Also since I was all out of Smart Balance   I used butter to grease the pan which was good, but it toasted more than fried-guess I didn't use enough.

Cool Jeff! (pun intended)
Using cold flour and water is a new one for me, but I will definitely try this now on the next test along with the 48 hours in the fridge.  I hope you don't mind a few questions:  Did it rise while in the fridge or after removal?  If after, approx how long between removal and baking?  Lastly, what does the use of cold ingredients cause to happen? 
I will prob try the butter also now that I know it did not burn, maybe 1-2 tablespoons.
Thanks for the help and improvements, and if you need some Smart Balance just let me know, I have half a tub I would be happy to send :-[.
Hog

Offline jeff v

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #73 on: February 23, 2009, 02:22:01 PM »
Hog,

Before pizza I made quite a bit of bread, and the book where I first learned about this technique is "The Bread Bakers Apprentice" by Peter Reinhart where he explains and gives a recipe for Pain à l’ancienne. He goes into great detail regarding the science of it, but basically this- The ice cold ingredients and then right into the fridge delay fermentation, and allow enzymatic activity to turn more of the starch in the flour to sugar making a more complex, better tasting bread or pizza. To my knowledge other than using a starter it gives the most flavor to your dough. It's a interesting read.

The dough will rise in the fridge some, but not much. I leave it out long enough to take the chill off, and let it ferment some 2-4 hours depeding on the temp of your kitchen.

Hope this helps,

Jeff


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Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #74 on: February 23, 2009, 07:04:15 PM »
Jeff
What an excellent technique and one I was looking for and sorely need.  Texture has been improving but flavor has always been lacking.  So I look forward to giving this a try.
Thanks again for your help,
Hog


 

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