Author Topic: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's  (Read 168504 times)

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Offline Mr Sniffles

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #140 on: December 22, 2009, 09:15:13 AM »
Just finished reading all the posts through this link and none seem to really answer the burning questions about Buddys!  I used to own a pizza place and have some insight on dough,pepperoni and sauce recipes that may help some.  Dove in head first at home with the mystery of the Buddys dough and came up with a pretty good clone.  Starter is the key to getting the crispy airy crust you all have been searching high and low for.
STARTER 
1 C Flour/I use King Arthur Unbleached
1/2 C Warm Water
1/4 Tsp of Yeast/I prefer Red Star Bread Machine Variety.
In a non reactive bowl/glass/stainless mix water and yeast and flour into a paste.  This can be achieved with a fork, but dont beat it to death.  Cover with plastice wrap and let sit for 24 hours in a warm place.  After 24 hours you have one of the basic building blocks for your dough.  I prefer a bread machine on the dough cycle for the mixing process.
1/2 C of Luke Warm Water
2 Tsp of IDY
2 C FLour
1 1/4 tsp of salt
2 tbs of milk
1 tbs of olive oil
1 Starter recipe above
Add ingridients together in bread machine  turn on to dough cycle keep an eye on the bread machine and pull the dough out after it forms a ball.  Usually with most bread machines the dough cycle takes 2 hours makes sure you remove it once the ingredients form a ball  Coat ball lightly with olive oil and put in non reactive bowl.  Cover with plastic wrap and let rise 1 to 11/2 hours.  Cut dough into four pieces and weigh each one you are looking for 10 to 11 oz each. Kneed dough with a little bench flour into 4 balls and brush with olive oil. Form the dough into the pans leaving a nice thin lip on all sides  Again cover with saran wrap and stick them in your fridge to proof another 1 hour.  My pans have been seasoned from many years of baking so this helps me out greatly.  The pan dimensions for Buddys is 10 by 8 inches.  Sauce and cheese will be disucced on another post.  Hope you find this recipe close to the original Buddys just make sure you sprinkle the cheese all the way to the edge of the crust.  I also use a brick and cook the pizza at about 375 cooking times vary on the amount of doneness you prefer, keep an eye on it.





Offline Ali

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #141 on: January 03, 2010, 05:24:54 PM »
Hi.  I'm just another Detroit pizza fan in California.  Thanks to all of you for this post, it is really appreciated.  I just had some info I wanted to share.  Mr. Sniffles, I want to try your recipe, but I know there are absolutely no dairy products in Buddy's crust.  My son is allergic to dairy but after speaking with the manager we found he could eat the pizza without the cheese.  (He did eat it, and had no reaction- which he would have if there had been any dairy in the crust, or even if the pan had been greased with butter or margarine.  His allergy is pretty severe).  I am always looking for delicious things to feed him, so thank you again for this post.

Offline mibadboy

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #142 on: January 05, 2010, 10:41:09 PM »
I've been tinkering with this clone recipe and I'm having a small problem with the center of the pizza not being cooked enough (top overcooked). From reading the whole thread again, I found I'm not supposed to put oil in the dough, or sugar, but not sure if either would cause the problem I'm having. I've made this pizza 50 times and it tastes great...I just have to let it sit for a bit before eating, but the top dries out too fast letting it sit.

I'm using a 10x10x2" cast iron pan and a preheated stone under it on the bottom rack. I've tried 525 degrees at 18 min and 350 degrees at 45 minutes, both have the same problem. The top is overcooked and the middle is a bit too wet. I've tried 60-63% hydration and same problem at both levels.

How much oil should be used in the bottom of a 10"x10" pan? I've been using 1 tbsp of olive oil for the bottom and 1 tbsp olive/vegetable oil for the dough. I let it rise at room temp for 3-5 hours in the pan.

200g of flour is used for this size pan and that's plenty of bread thickness for this pizza.

I put the pepperoni on top, along with green pepper, mushroom, onions and italian sausage. Is it possible my pepperoni and sausage have too much grease? I also use 12-13oz shred mozzerella - sauce on top.

To fix the problem, I will attempt less water (approx 55% hydration), no oil in dough and no sugar as well. Any other suggestions would help. If cast iron is a bad choice I'd love to understand why. Comments appreciated.

This forum got me started on making pizza and it's the #1 place on the net for advice on pizzamaking by far!

Offline mibadboy

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #143 on: January 11, 2010, 01:43:43 PM »
I figured out the problems regarding my earlier post above and wanted to report back to everyone what I came up with, which I believe is pretty close to a buddy's pizza according to everything I've read and gathered on my own. I've included a ton of details so newbies can create this pie correctly the first time....

I'm using an 8" round cast iron pan (6.5" bottom/8" top) because I like smaller pizzas which give me more crust per square inch of pizza. I also get to eat pizza more often this way! Here is the recipe exactly how I made it last night. I didn't take pictures because of the problems I've had trying to make this correctly in the past and it was so good I ate it too fast to stop and take pics as well.

Use dough calculator for different pan sizes.

Dough: 1 8" round
100% 110g bread flour 11-12% protein (do not add Vital Wheat Gluten as I've tried many times without success)
64%   70g warm water -added some vitamin C in it - see below
1%     1/2t IDY for same-day dough (1/4t for overnight rise)
         1/4t Salt
2%     1/2t Sugar (adjust for browning purposes - some pans allow for faster browning)
Absobic Acid/Vitamin C - my flour was plain flour so make sure you have some sort of conditioner in your dough or it won't rise well. If you buy from Sam's Club, their flour has nothing in it except flour!

Sauce:
4-5oz by weight Tomato Magic Ground Tomatos (buddy's uses Stanislaus products)
Pinch crushed red pepper flakes
Pinch of salt
1/8t black pepper
1/8t Garlic powder
1/4t Basil flakes
1/8t Oregano
1/4t Italian seasoning mix
1/4t Sugar
1/4t Olive Oil

Toppings:
4oz Sorrento 50/50 Whole Milk Mozz/Prov
2oz Tuma Muenster (this blend makes it 33/33/33 each cheese)
1.5oz Margherita Coarse pepperoni stick (thin sliced by hand)
1 oz each (mushrooms/green pepper/onion)

I kneaded the dough slowly w/hooks for 4-5 minutes then left in covered bowl for 1-2 hours on countertop for first rise. In my pan I only used enough olive oil to coat the pan then I coated my hands with oil from the excess laying in the bottom of the pan to oil the outside of the dough as I shaped it. No oil inside dough, just outside...I placed flattened dough into pan and covered again for 4-5 hours to rise a second time on countertop. 2 hours before preparing, I popped it into the oven at about 80-90 degrees to rise further.

Toppings: Place all "wet" toppings and sliced pepperoni in between several paper towels and nuke them for 30 seconds. The longer they sit in the paper the better to remove all excess water without damaging veges. This defats the pepperoni a bit as well. The tomato product is almost perfect out of the can, but I do nuke it on half power for a few minutes to "cook" down the tomato and spices a bit to remove excess water. If you don't take these steps to remove the water, your pizza will taste fine, but texture will be horrible!

Typical Buddy's style: pepperoni down first, cheese, sauce and then veges on top.

Oven: Preheat oven to 550-600 degrees for 20 minutes. Slide in pizza on lowest rack and lower temp to 500 degrees, cook for 17 minutes. Get it out of the pan asap and onto cooling rack to let moisture out. If pizza gets cold while drying, put rack back in oven before cutting.

Note: If bottom is not brown enough for you, do not put back in pan and oven attempting to brown more. It just doesn't happen for some reason. Adjust sugar next time around and/or increase cook time.

Sorry for no pics, but this did make a beatiful slice, very "sponge-like" on the inside without excess water and no gum line at all. The bottom was lightly browned, not greasy at all (one dime-sized piece of dough stuck to pan actually) with no leftover grease in pan when done.

I've tried making this pizza 50 times in a bigger pan, always messing something up. If done this way, your pizza will be perfect as well! Even the newest rookie should benefit from this recipe if followed carefully. I've used at many authentic ingredients as research would allow, so this is as close to Buddy's as it's going to get.


Offline AustinSpartan

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #144 on: January 17, 2010, 10:57:46 AM »
I had a nice writeup about the pizza that I made yesterday, however all of that was lost when my file attachments were too large. So, here's the photos to enjoy.

This was the first time I've attempted to make Sicilian style pizza, and it turned out nearly perfect!

Offline steve in FL

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #145 on: January 17, 2010, 12:04:51 PM »
That looks great, Austin! Which recipe/technique did you use?

Offline AustinSpartan

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #146 on: January 17, 2010, 12:10:14 PM »
That looks great, Austin! Which recipe/technique did you use?

Steve,

Sadly, I had such a great writeup and lost it all when I went to post... all because of the damn image size. :(

I used PizzaHog's recipe (much thanks to him) and also went with the cold fermentation method for about 17-18 hours. I then moved the pizzas into the oven @ 475' for 5 minutes as a pre-bake, then loaded on the toppings (all underneath), the cheese and then the sauce. This was for 2 12x8 pizzas. Going down to enjoy leftovers now!


Offline GIBBY

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #147 on: January 18, 2010, 02:25:24 PM »
Howdy Gang!!! I'm BBaaaacccckkkk!!!  Well, today, I had the day off and my original 25# of fine thin slice Margherita pepperoni is almost gone, so I took a trip to Caramagno Foods in Detroit. Went to the counter and asked the nice lady if I could buy a couple boxes of the coarse grind pepperoni and gave her the UPC code#. She proceeds to punch it into the computer and she looks at me and says "this is a special order item" and me thinks "Great, I came all this way for nothing"! She gets on the horn to someone and they give her the O.K. to sell to me since I don't have a restuarant. I ended getting three 12# boxes. Each box has 4/3# bags. Cost $111.90. It says right on the box "Institutional Use Only". Who comes up with this stuff anyways? Rosellis only carries the 25# fine and the 10# whole link. I asked why he doesn't carry it and the owner says it too expensive. By my math, buying the coarse sliced is just about even. $78.00 for 25# thin sliced from Roselli's or $74.60 for 2-12# boxes of sliced coarse grind from Caramagno Foods. The slight price increase for the coarse ground sliced would be offset to me by not having to peel the casing off or slicing the whole links. I was so grateful I found the pepperoni that I forgot to ask if they were the ones that carried the cheese that Buddy's uses. Maybe if we could somehow get together as a group, we could convince Roselli's to buy the coarse grind sliced. He told me that he has to order 100 cases at a time. Roselli's is a lot closer for me=about half the distance.

Offline mibadboy

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #148 on: January 18, 2010, 02:31:44 PM »
I went to Roselli's 2 weeks ago and bought 10# of coarse Margherita for $38.50. I slice it myself and throw it on my scale since I only use 1.5 oz per pizza. It slices nicely and I've pretty much mastered slicing them thin and consistently. I weighed them and actually got 11# for the price of 10#. Roselli's is awesome and they used to be the sole supplier to Buddy's way back when. They treated me great, even at 4:30 on a Friday when they were cleaning up shop to close for the weekend!

Offline GIBBY

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #149 on: January 18, 2010, 02:35:11 PM »
It still looks to be a better deal to me 12# for 37.30 already sliced. Like I said in an earlier post, " I"M LAZY".


Offline oddlycalm

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #150 on: February 08, 2010, 10:06:10 PM »
After leaving Detroit 40yrs ago I went through a period where I attempted to recreate Buddy's (and similar Sicilian) pizza with some success during the late 70's. One of the cooks at my elementary school must have been a Buddy's fan because the pizza we had for lunch in elementary school during the mid-late 1950's was a straight up ripoff of Buddy's spiced ground beef pizza. When I was older and I actually ate at Buddy's on 6mile and I was surprised that the pizza was quite similar. I embarrassed everyone at the table by mentioning that out loud... hey, I was 8. In any case, I have lurked on this thread with considerable interest.

On the issue of cheese, while Buddy's may have used Kraft brick cheese in the past their menu says they use a custom blend from Foremost Farms a huge cheese co-op in Wisconsin. Sorry, hyperlink not accepted, but go to their site and look for the 1950-127 Brand® page.  The picture on the page looks like the cheese in the pictures taken at Buddy's. Unfortunately, since Foremost supplies mozzarella, provolone and white cheddar alone or in combination knowing where it comes from doesn't narrow things down much. I couldn't find any reference to retail sales of the cheese under the Foremost brand name. It says they sell to distributors & brokers.

oc

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #151 on: February 08, 2010, 10:18:38 PM »
oc,

The link to the 1950-127 Brand cheese is http://www.foremostfarms.com/Commercial/Cheese/1950-127-Brand.php. A while back I did some research on Foremost since they are also a major supplier to Costco's, for the pizzas made in the Costco food courts. I tried to identify possible retail products put out by Foremost and could not find any, although it is possible that they do private branding.

You mentioned that Buddy's menu says that they use a custom blend from Foremost. Is that a recent menu?

Peter

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #152 on: February 13, 2010, 03:03:19 PM »
Interesting...
I have not been to a Buddy's for many months so the cheese switch is news to me.
So I just sent an email to Foremost inquiring about distributors of their cheese in the Detroit area.  If they respond at all I will post.
I also see a few others have been baking Sicilian since I last posted here.  AustinSpartan's pie looks fantastic!
Norma, I noticed you asking about a more airy and lighter crust.  For me, that occurs at way high hydration, like around 90%.
I make this pizza often, but I guess I like it so much as is I have not returned to the Buddy's clone experiment.....yet.  But I'm sure I will...


Offline norma427

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #153 on: February 13, 2010, 03:25:37 PM »
PizzaHog ,

Yes, I am finding out though experiments that a higher hydration helps give a lighter and airy crust to a Sicilian Pie.   
I also use the 1950-127 brand of part-skim mozzarella in my blend of cheeses for the Lehmann dough pizza at market. Interesting to hear someone else might use this same brand or blend of brands of cheeses.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline future_itisnow

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #154 on: February 15, 2010, 04:27:38 PM »
I've been watching on in great interest for the past few months as this discussion continues to unfold.  

A couple of things....

- Buddy's uses a full brick cheese purchased from a major US food supplier.  Since they list Foremost Farms on their site, I was able to find a commercial Brick cheese from the Foremost website.  I have the link, but I am not able to post it here since I am a new member.
- Buddy's may cube their cheese for their bake (just like the cubed brick cheese used in their salads, etc).
- Not all 'Detroit Style' places are using full brick cubes, however as Nicki's, Cloverleaf are using shredding without a doubt.
- The sauce is likely a blend of Stanislaus - Full Red & 7/11, possibly watered down a touch to cut down on the thickness of it. They lightly spice it up, but it remains a largely simple sauce.

For what it's worth, on a recent trip back to Detroit I ate at Nicki's and Colverleaf...both places are stellar and rival Buddy's for taste and quality.

I applaud those who have shared so much information over the years in this thread.  Alot has been learned, more is to come.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #155 on: February 15, 2010, 04:50:45 PM »

Offline future_itisnow

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #156 on: February 15, 2010, 04:52:14 PM »
There is a link for the Foremost brick cheese at ...

Peter

Nice, that's it...thanks Peter.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #157 on: February 15, 2010, 05:48:14 PM »
I took a look at the latest menu posted at Buddy's website, at http://www.buddyspizza.com/WEBSITE%20MENU.pdf, and there is a Foremost symbol on page 2 and a statement that they use cheeses produced by Foremost. However, what I found most interesting is that there is no mention of using brick cheese in the section of the menu directed to the basic (original) square pizza. The only reference to brick cheese that I could find in the pizza section is in relation to three specialty pizzas. That's three pizzas out of a total of 12 distinct pizzas listed on the menu. I wonder whether they have switched cheeses for their basic square pizza and most of the other pizzas. I checked all of the other links at the Buddy's website and maybe I missed it but I did not find any further references to brick cheese.

Peter

EDIT (11/2/12): A recent version of the Buddy's menu can be found at http://www.buddyspizza.com/documents/Carryout101.pdf
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 11:46:33 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline lovemypizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #158 on: February 15, 2010, 07:02:39 PM »
Hello to all Fellow Detroit Style Pizza Lovers!  What a great site!  We were just talking about Loui's and well, here I am.  I am in the process of reading all the posts and will give a try to the dough.  You know the secret is in the dough...according to Loui himself.  Great info.  Will be in touch Im sure I will have tons of questions once I read all these posts..good grief.   We live in Southern Kentucky and no Pizza places here at all, except the chain stores, we love Loui's, Buddys, Cloverleaf and of course Green Lantern.  Talk to ya soon.

Offline lovemypizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #159 on: February 19, 2010, 08:18:00 AM »
I read all these posts and got a question, what is 6 in 1 sauce?