Author Topic: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's  (Read 209637 times)

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Offline oddlycalm

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #150 on: February 08, 2010, 10:06:10 PM »
After leaving Detroit 40yrs ago I went through a period where I attempted to recreate Buddy's (and similar Sicilian) pizza with some success during the late 70's. One of the cooks at my elementary school must have been a Buddy's fan because the pizza we had for lunch in elementary school during the mid-late 1950's was a straight up ripoff of Buddy's spiced ground beef pizza. When I was older and I actually ate at Buddy's on 6mile and I was surprised that the pizza was quite similar. I embarrassed everyone at the table by mentioning that out loud... hey, I was 8. In any case, I have lurked on this thread with considerable interest.

On the issue of cheese, while Buddy's may have used Kraft brick cheese in the past their menu says they use a custom blend from Foremost Farms a huge cheese co-op in Wisconsin. Sorry, hyperlink not accepted, but go to their site and look for the 1950-127 Brand® page.  The picture on the page looks like the cheese in the pictures taken at Buddy's. Unfortunately, since Foremost supplies mozzarella, provolone and white cheddar alone or in combination knowing where it comes from doesn't narrow things down much. I couldn't find any reference to retail sales of the cheese under the Foremost brand name. It says they sell to distributors & brokers.

oc


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #151 on: February 08, 2010, 10:18:38 PM »
oc,

The link to the 1950-127 Brand cheese is http://www.foremostfarms.com/Commercial/Cheese/1950-127-Brand.php. A while back I did some research on Foremost since they are also a major supplier to Costco's, for the pizzas made in the Costco food courts. I tried to identify possible retail products put out by Foremost and could not find any, although it is possible that they do private branding.

You mentioned that Buddy's menu says that they use a custom blend from Foremost. Is that a recent menu?

Peter

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #152 on: February 13, 2010, 03:03:19 PM »
Interesting...
I have not been to a Buddy's for many months so the cheese switch is news to me.
So I just sent an email to Foremost inquiring about distributors of their cheese in the Detroit area.  If they respond at all I will post.
I also see a few others have been baking Sicilian since I last posted here.  AustinSpartan's pie looks fantastic!
Norma, I noticed you asking about a more airy and lighter crust.  For me, that occurs at way high hydration, like around 90%.
I make this pizza often, but I guess I like it so much as is I have not returned to the Buddy's clone experiment.....yet.  But I'm sure I will...


Online norma427

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #153 on: February 13, 2010, 03:25:37 PM »
PizzaHog ,

Yes, I am finding out though experiments that a higher hydration helps give a lighter and airy crust to a Sicilian Pie.   
I also use the 1950-127 brand of part-skim mozzarella in my blend of cheeses for the Lehmann dough pizza at market. Interesting to hear someone else might use this same brand or blend of brands of cheeses.

Norma

Offline future_itisnow

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #154 on: February 15, 2010, 04:27:38 PM »
I've been watching on in great interest for the past few months as this discussion continues to unfold.  

A couple of things....

- Buddy's uses a full brick cheese purchased from a major US food supplier.  Since they list Foremost Farms on their site, I was able to find a commercial Brick cheese from the Foremost website.  I have the link, but I am not able to post it here since I am a new member.
- Buddy's may cube their cheese for their bake (just like the cubed brick cheese used in their salads, etc).
- Not all 'Detroit Style' places are using full brick cubes, however as Nicki's, Cloverleaf are using shredding without a doubt.
- The sauce is likely a blend of Stanislaus - Full Red & 7/11, possibly watered down a touch to cut down on the thickness of it. They lightly spice it up, but it remains a largely simple sauce.

For what it's worth, on a recent trip back to Detroit I ate at Nicki's and Colverleaf...both places are stellar and rival Buddy's for taste and quality.

I applaud those who have shared so much information over the years in this thread.  Alot has been learned, more is to come.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #155 on: February 15, 2010, 04:50:45 PM »

Offline future_itisnow

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #156 on: February 15, 2010, 04:52:14 PM »
There is a link for the Foremost brick cheese at ...

Peter

Nice, that's it...thanks Peter.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #157 on: February 15, 2010, 05:48:14 PM »
I took a look at the latest menu posted at Buddy's website, at http://www.buddyspizza.com/WEBSITE%20MENU.pdf, and there is a Foremost symbol on page 2 and a statement that they use cheeses produced by Foremost. However, what I found most interesting is that there is no mention of using brick cheese in the section of the menu directed to the basic (original) square pizza. The only reference to brick cheese that I could find in the pizza section is in relation to three specialty pizzas. That's three pizzas out of a total of 12 distinct pizzas listed on the menu. I wonder whether they have switched cheeses for their basic square pizza and most of the other pizzas. I checked all of the other links at the Buddy's website and maybe I missed it but I did not find any further references to brick cheese.

Peter

EDIT (11/2/12): A recent version of the Buddy's menu can be found at http://www.buddyspizza.com/documents/Carryout101.pdf
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 11:46:33 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline lovemypizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #158 on: February 15, 2010, 07:02:39 PM »
Hello to all Fellow Detroit Style Pizza Lovers!  What a great site!  We were just talking about Loui's and well, here I am.  I am in the process of reading all the posts and will give a try to the dough.  You know the secret is in the dough...according to Loui himself.  Great info.  Will be in touch Im sure I will have tons of questions once I read all these posts..good grief.   We live in Southern Kentucky and no Pizza places here at all, except the chain stores, we love Loui's, Buddys, Cloverleaf and of course Green Lantern.  Talk to ya soon.


Offline lovemypizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #159 on: February 19, 2010, 08:18:00 AM »
I read all these posts and got a question, what is 6 in 1 sauce?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #160 on: February 19, 2010, 10:28:24 AM »
I read all these posts and got a question, what is 6 in 1 sauce?

It is a sauce based on using 6 IN 1 tomatoes from Escalon, as shown at http://www.escalon.net/6in1.aspx.

Peter

Offline Guyver

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #161 on: February 19, 2010, 11:08:57 AM »
I had a nice writeup about the pizza that I made yesterday, however all of that was lost when my file attachments were too large. So, here's the photos to enjoy.

This was the first time I've attempted to make Sicilian style pizza, and it turned out nearly perfect!

Wow that looks good! Man your making me hungry.  :-D
If you love eating pizza, you'll love making pizza!

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #162 on: February 19, 2010, 03:35:29 PM »
I read all these posts and got a question, what is 6 in 1 sauce?

All purpose crushed tomatos in heavy puree.  One of the preferred brands around here.  For one reason, it doesn't contain any citric acid like pretty much all other brands do.

http://www.escalon.net/6in1.aspx
Let them eat pizza.

Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #163 on: February 19, 2010, 10:01:12 PM »
This is great to see a Buddy's pizza forum.  My dad would pick up pizza from Buddy's and bring it home to the family.  Loved the stuff.  Have not eaten a pizza that good in years.  Right now I live in Colorado.  Nothing great here.   I sure miss the Sicilian style of pizza found in the Detroit area. 

For the past couple of months we had 6-10 guys getting together each week cooking pizza's.  It all started off with a pizza-cook-off one weekend and turned into a weekly Saturday night pizza party. 

This weekend I am going to try the recipe i found on this forum.  I spent hours yesterday reading though all the ideas and trials on Buddy's Pizza.  Everyone here is hardcore and I love it.  I will let you know how everything turns out.   :chef:

TJ

Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #164 on: February 21, 2010, 07:27:29 PM »
After reading this forum I made some pizzas.  The first one was from Pizza Hog's recipe and the second I made a little changes.  Both were great. The second one I added corn meal to the pan and exchanged water for beer.  I have to say it was good.  Try it and you will be surprised.

FYI: I have to say I was scared when I seen how moist the dough was.  I was wondering if this would ever rise.  It does and it taste GREAT!

Offline future_itisnow

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #165 on: February 21, 2010, 07:36:10 PM »
Nice pizza's buddy. (no pun intended)

I have been tinkering with these recipes for awhile out of the house.  I have managed to get to a point where I think the pizza's are turning out really good, however I cannot seem to drill it 100%...something is missing.  In my opinion my pizza's are lacking the heavier yeast flavor often associated with Buddy's and others (Niki''s being the strongest yeast flavor), and I am missing the buttery flavor as well.  I have prepared my pans with butter, olive oil, and peanut oil.  The peanut oil has turned out the best, but the dough is just not buttery enough.  I am working my way close to a 80% hydration ratio...really making large strides with the open/airyness crumb most everybody is after when mocking these pizza's.

Thoughts from the gallery on the yeasty & buttery flavors?  (I am thinking of moving towards a real sourdough starter/culture to kick up the yeasty-ness)

Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #166 on: February 21, 2010, 08:41:16 PM »
Hey Future.  I was thinking the same thing.  My neighbor ran a pizza joint and when he makes his pies at home he only gets the yeast from Papa Murphy's.  You can get the yeast from them.  It almost looks like a clay ball. 

The next time I make this I will try a making a buttery past to coat the pan.  Any insights would be helpful.  I am only going off memory because I have not lived in MI for sometime.  I was thinking of butter, olive oil, _____, and corn meal.  The corn meal will add texture, the butter will add flavor, oil will give it a nice crisp, but there is something missing.  I just cannot put my hands on it. ???


Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #167 on: February 21, 2010, 11:43:48 PM »
I just noticed something.  Someone here on this forum has a picture of a Buddy's pizza.  There were parts of the cheese that were black (high points).  This is usually done with a high temp oven.  I think this rules out the 375 for 13 min.  You cannot make a golden brown crust with burnt cheese at this temp.  I bet they used 800 degrees or so.   >:D

Offline future_itisnow

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #168 on: February 22, 2010, 12:28:41 AM »
Not very likely due to the texture and thickness of the crust.  Typically at those temps a pizza would need to be on the thinner side and with a lot less cheese. 

A sicilian pie essentially 'frying' in a black steel pan would not work at a high temp like that.  I am currently doing mine at 500 degrees with a 6 min parbake before topping and finishing for another 8 min.  You can get the cheese black at 375 as well on the sides without much effort.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #169 on: February 22, 2010, 09:41:21 AM »
I bet they used 800 degrees or so.   >:D

Grilled Pizza,

Buddy's now uses conveyor ovens. They don't get to 800 degrees F.

Peter

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #170 on: February 22, 2010, 04:17:34 PM »
I received a response from Foremost on where to buy their cheeses in the Detroit area, good and bad news:

You can purchase the Foremost Farms shredded cheeses at Restaurant Depot in the Supremo Italiano brand.
The Michigan Restaurant Depot locations are at Dearborn and Troy .
Dearborn:  313-582-1420
Troy:  248-588-0755

The bad news is wholesale only-business license required-no sales to the general public  >:(.  I even called them, no exceptions.  I will be looking for some way around this, but in the meantime, here is a link:  http://www.restaurantdepot.com/index.aspx.  They look to have around 5 or 6 dozen locations thru out much of the US.

On the whole brick cheese switch thing, I am thinking maybe they are now using a white cheddar blend?  I have never had "real" brick cheese, but from what I have read it is often likened to a white cheddar.  Thanks for the research Peter.

Offline dicepackage

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #171 on: February 22, 2010, 05:40:33 PM »
That's too bad about the cheese.  Maybe we can convince Roselli's to buy some for resale.

As for the oven question I know the Buddy's closest to me uses a conveyor oven.  They also are the only buddy's that does cheese rather than sauce on top and the cheese is never browning.

Offline dicepackage

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #172 on: February 23, 2010, 12:08:39 AM »
This seems way too wet to even be possible but I calculated this out to a 96% hydration for pizzahog's recipe.  Maybe I did something wrong but at this ratio there is no way kneading is even a slight possibility.  Am I doing something wrong here?  I converted pizzahog's recipe from volume to weights and this is what I got.

Original:
1 3/4 C + 2 Tblsp + 1 tsp flour
3/4 C + 3 Tblsp + 1 tsp water
.5 tsp IDY
1 tsp salt

Conversion to weights:
Sifted AP Flour 234.465g or
Water 227.125g
IDY 1.35g
Salt 5.58g
Total 468.52g

And when I tryed to plug it in to the dough calculator.  I tweaked the numbers to make the IDY and Salt match up to the volume measurements.

Flour (100%): 234.39 g  |  8.27 oz | 0.52 lbs
Water (96.8694%): 227.05 g |  8.01 oz | 0.5 lbs
IDY (.64%): 1.5 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
Salt (2.38%): 5.58 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
Total (199.8894%): 468.52 g | 16.53 oz | 1.03 lbs  TF: .109128
« Last Edit: February 23, 2010, 11:12:12 PM by dicepackage »

Offline Aaron

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #173 on: February 23, 2010, 02:53:56 PM »
F.Y.I if you are a member of KCBS you can shop there.
Aaron

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #174 on: February 23, 2010, 04:29:42 PM »
This seems way too wet to even be possible but I calculated this out to a 96% hydration for pizzahog's recipe.  Maybe I did something wrong but at this ratio there is no way kneading is even a slight possibility.  Am I doing something wrong here?  I converted pizzahog's recipe from volume to weights and this is what I got.

dicepackage,

Your numbers look correct. As best I can tell, you were working off of PizzaHog's numbers as given at Reply 138 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg84144.html#msg84144. Elsewhere, PizzaHog said that he was using KAAP. If memory serves me correct, he noted, perhaps in another thread, that he made use of November's Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator at http://foodsim.toastguard.com/ to do conversions (apparently for the flour and water). I ran the volume measurements for flour and water throught that tool and, using the weight values for all ingredients in conjunction with the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, I came up with the following dough formulation:

Flour (100%):
Water (95.8932%):
IDY (0.63698%):
Salt (2.3606%):
Total (198.89078%):
236.44 g  |  8.34 oz | 0.52 lbs
226.73 g  |  8 oz | 0.5 lbs
1.51 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
5.58 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
470.25 g | 16.59 oz | 1.04 lbs | TF = N/A

As you can see, your numbers are very close to what I got.

Peter


 

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