Author Topic: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's  (Read 200412 times)

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Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #225 on: March 31, 2010, 12:36:20 AM »
Nice pizza Hog!  I did beer once and had the same experience.  Makes it nice and moist and tasted great.  Buddy's or not, Pesto on top of the pie is awesome.  I think what makes a great Detroit style pizza is the crust, cheese on the bottom, and sauce on top.  Whatever else you put on it is style.

Also, I tried grilling this style pizza and it does not work.  I had to try.

Grilled


Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #226 on: March 31, 2010, 08:25:13 PM »
Quote
Also, I tried grilling this style pizza and it does not work.  I had to try.
Of course you had to try, it is your handle after all! 
Yes, I think I would eat sawdust if it had pesto on it.  The beer dough thing was pretty good too, might play around with that some more.
Hog

Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #227 on: April 07, 2010, 10:27:37 PM »
Do you think Buddy's uses semolina flour?  I read in some other posts that this is used in Sicilian pizza. 

Grilled

Offline dicepackage

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #228 on: April 07, 2010, 11:50:22 PM »
I kind of doubt it.  The pizza is always very white from what I can recall in Buddys dough.  Some of the other Detroit style pizza places I have been to have also had the very white looking dough.

Offline DeanoX

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #229 on: April 10, 2010, 01:28:27 AM »
Hello everyone.

First off, I have to commend every poster in this thread.

Every picture and recipe, is great in their own right. Great work everyone, they all look Delicious!
Most of you could probably open pizza places, and make a living. Again, great work!

A little background on me first.

I grew up in Detroit, within walking distance of Shield's, and about a miles walk to the original Buddy's, on 7 and Conant.
My Mother tells me, that my first taste of Buddy's, was when I was 1 month old. I guess you could say I was weened on Buddy's pizza.  :-*

Every pizza I have, until this day, I compare to Buddy's pizza.
I Have been around the world, several times. I have even had pizza in Italy, the birth place of pizza I guess, but it does not compare to that sweet, not too thick, not to flat, square piece of heaven, that is Buddy's pizza, from Detroit.
Most all pizza I have had, has been good, but some should not even be called pizza.  >:D

In my early years, I was a professional cook, pizza maker, and head dishwasher, at many restaurants in Detroit, and beyond. I have made many, many attempts, at reproducing the original Buddy's pizza. All to no avail, close, but not the same.

Enough about me.

I had an Aunt, who worked at Buddy's, at the original Conant location, in the mid 70's, for a couple of summers. She had mentioned to me, and my family, on more than one occasion, some of the secrets of the Buddy's pizza, but not enough.

I remember that she had mentioned that there was cheese, in the dough. Not just in the crust, but in the actual preparation of the dough. "When the dough was made, a dry powdery cheese was added". Now I take that to mean that there was an addition of something dry, like Parmesan, being added to the dough, as it was mixed. Now do not take this as gospel, it is just what was I told. I was a kid, I was told lots of things.  ;D But I do, until this day, add Parmesan to my dough. It's good, and I do notice a difference in taste, when I do not add it.

Reading through the thread, there are some things that I know for a fact, that are true.
All Buddy's pizzas are made in seasoned, dark metal pans, and they are not washed. (just wiped clean between uses.)
Oil is bushed into the pans, before the dough is placed into the pans. ( I have seen it.)

What I do not know for fact, and I just remember being told.
The cheese is a mix of, brick, cheddar, provolone, and mozzarella.  Cubed, (cheese is used as the crust, pressed into the corners and sides, and spread into the pan lightly, as dough is placed into pan)
Oven temps, when they used pizza ovens, were high, 600+ degrees. But they now use conveyor, impinger type ovens.

I can not, to this day, reproduce it.

Luckily, I live only about 3 1/2 hours from the nearest Buddy's pizza. I frequent the store in Auburn Hill's, just off I-75, next to Oakland University.

The taste and texture does change, from location to location. But I assume that is because each location is not identical, like say a domino's or a pizza hut, where each location is an exact a reproduction of another kitchen.

More to come.

Thanks,
-Deano

Offline DeanoX

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #230 on: April 10, 2010, 02:04:32 AM »
Ok, I now I can not get this out my mind.

The original topic is, " "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's "

From what I know, have been to, and what I have tasted, all the "Detroit style" pizza's are all attempts at the original Buddy's pizza, each with their own twist. And that is fine, thanks to all, I appreciate it, more than you will ever know.

Buddy's beget, Shield's, Louie's, Savina's, Cloverleaf, Mike's around the corner, and a lot more. If you knew the true genealogy about each place, I am sure that somewhere, there is a tie to another place, that leads back to the original Buddy's somehow.

I am almost positive, that there have been cooks, waitresses, dish washers, delivery drivers, consumers, and more, that have crossed paths, amongst all the places in Detroit and beyond, that have produced similar, Detroit style, quality pizza.

The "Detroit style", of pizza, is quite unique. I have seen/had square pizza, deep dish, etc, in many places, but nothing compares.

Everyone on this forum, who has been trying to reproduce the original Buddy's or Shield's pizza, has one thing in common, they like it, they want it, and they want more of it.  :-D


Thanks,
-Deano


Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #231 on: April 10, 2010, 02:39:13 PM »
Welcome DeanoX
Great memories.  I have read the history of this pizza more than a few times in the Det newspapers as they publish such a story every few years it seems.  If they are to be believed Buddy's did start it all and the direct links to most of the well known others have been documented.  Since joining the forum I have learned a lineage like this exists for many regional styles all over the country.  So even though we are left chasing the ghost of the "original" (whatever that is to each person) it is fun and the results are most tasty so it's all good.  Hope you post your recipes and methods too.

I have baked up a few more of these since last posting. 
One improvement has been to season the heck out of the pan.  Oiling it up and running it thru the oven over and over has really helped in removing these pies and their caramelized cheese crust.  Still doesn't quite pop out yet but now a quick and single run around the edge with a plastic spatula separates the pie from the pan.  The seasoned pan actually works way better than my non stick.  Another few thousand cycles should do it.  Plus less OO is necs to still get a good crisp bottom.  I plan to try and talk one of the pizzerias that use these pans to sell me a few.
Peter's Cuisinart method of dicing up the cheese, especially the stickyish, smeary white cheddar's I have been using, makes much easier and quicker work of this chore compared to hand grating or knife dicing.  It tends to stick together some after dicing but separates easily enough when applying to the pie.  The dice size also works out well.
Although it should not be a surprise, shortening the ferment time via higher yeast or temps is not such a good thing.  Texture is still fine and with IDY and same day there is not all that much flavor to be concerned with, but these can really lay heavy on the stomach with an accelerated rise.
I finally bought a scale so I could get more consistent and nail down the small adjustment in hydration necs to get these as right as I can, and to use on all my doughs.  Unfortunately, my fridge just went on the fritz and a day later I lost electricity to half my kitchen and adjacent room (inc stove and micro)!  Not a breaker issue, it looks like I have an open circuit somewhere that needs to be chased down.  Of course this all occurs while the wife is out of town during the busiest work week I have had this year and next week I am out of town all week for work.  Lost a bunch of food and pizza ingredients and am temp living out of a cooler.  So out of action for a while and no pizza for me unless I buy one.  At least I can still drool over the photos on the forum in the meantime.  Maybe this will give me chance to try a few of the local pizza's I have been meaning to but just never got around to.  Oh well... 

Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #232 on: April 11, 2010, 06:17:02 PM »
I kind of doubt it.  The pizza is always very white from what I can recall in Buddys dough.  Some of the other Detroit style pizza places I have been to have also had the very white looking dough.

I made pizza this weekend with 40% semolina flour.  Not even close to Buddy's.  Your right about the white flour, but I just had to try it.   

Offline steve in FL

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #233 on: April 11, 2010, 08:08:49 PM »
Here's a Buddy's pizza I picked up from the Warren location the other day..


Offline PizzaNick

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #234 on: April 11, 2010, 10:02:37 PM »
Wow!  Ive never had a Buddy's, or any detroit style, or even heard of them until seeing them here, but that pic reeeally makes me want one haha. 

Offline jimmy33

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #235 on: April 12, 2010, 10:30:01 PM »
Pizza Hog
 Please help me with your 223 post . Measurements  and directions on how you make it . That Pizza looks phenomenal!!!!
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 10:31:50 PM by jimmy33 »

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #236 on: April 13, 2010, 12:01:06 AM »
Pizza Hog
 Please help me with your 223 post . Measurements  and directions on how you make it . That Pizza looks phenomenal!!!!
Thanks Jimmy, post 199.  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=e2f8494ca4fa9c135c56a4ac2e002728&topic=3783.msg92963#msg92963

Offline Modegolf

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Cheese Blend Question!
« Reply #237 on: April 26, 2010, 12:20:35 PM »
Hello,

In this forum's opinion, what is the authentic blend of cheeses for a Buddy's/Detroit style pizza?

I think it's 50% Mozz /30% Brick (or White Cheddar) / 20% Provalone, but I am not sure.  I have read in this thread's instructions to put 100% Brick/White Cheddar on the edges to get a crispy cheese crust...and that is AWESOME! 

But I don't want to buy Provalone if I don't have to!

Thank you all!

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #238 on: April 26, 2010, 04:12:58 PM »
Quote
In this forum's opinion, what is the authentic blend of cheeses for a Buddy's/Detroit style pizza?
Can only speak for myself and my tasters who feel it is the white cheddar flavor that makes this a Det pie and must shine through.  I can say that the sharp white cheddar is way more flavor intense than any mozz or prov I ever tried so your ratio at 30% cheddar might be right on as long as the cheddar flavor is still there.  Then again, a pure white cheddar pie is pretty dang good too and there is no reason to not end up at where YOU like it best.  We are still deciding that issue and eating lots of pies to help that along. 
You now have me thinking though that I never tried a blend on the edges.  Yup, even more pizza will now be necessary to test that.
Short story is I personally would not worry about skipping the 20% prov at this point since it is all about that cheddar anyway...
Please let us know what you try and how it worked out for you.
Good Luck!


Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #239 on: May 10, 2010, 10:28:03 PM »
Well... being a western Pennsylvanian and having had Buddy's once (went out of my way to try it, enjoyed it), it is definitely about the cheddar. Very tangy, I initially thought that parmesan was involved but after using so much white cheddar myself in my sicilians, it's the cheddar, and that crispy cheese crust around the edges. That's unique to Detroit as far as I can see. I haven't seen it anywhere else but then what do I know?

steel_baker
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Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #240 on: May 18, 2010, 08:27:37 PM »
I just got a membership at Restaurant Depot.  They just opened here in Denver, CO.  If anyone needs pans I am sure they have them.  I will quote you prices on Friday.  Also, I was told they have the sausage that Buddy's uses.  I will believe it when I see it!


Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #241 on: June 12, 2010, 12:54:36 PM »
After a lot of trial and error, I think I have a pizza that is pretty good.  I don't know how close it is to Buddy's since I no longer live in Michigan, but it taste great.  Most of everything I learned was from this forum, so thank you everyone!  Give this pizza a try and let me know how it turns out.

Here is what I did.

Dough Formula:
   Flour (100%):          318 g
   Water (74%):          236 g
   IDY (0.94%):          3.0 g
   Salt (1.6%):          5.0 g

Ingredients:
   Flour:          King Arthur Bread Flour
   Salt:             Table Salt
   Water:          Tap Water
   Cheese:         White Cheddar & Mozzarella (50/50)
   Fresh Herbs:      Anise, French Tarragon, Oregano, Garlic Chives
   Oil:            Olive Oil
   Grease:         Crisco
   Sauce:         Stanislaus
   Pepperoni:         Margherita Brand
   Cornmeal:
   Butter:
   Minced Garlic:      
   Mixer:          Kitchen Aid Mixer with dough hook
   Pan:             9x13 Grey Steel Pan (Wish I had black)

Directions:
   Dissolve salt in water
   Add flour to salt and water mixture
   Sprinkle IDY on top
   Mix on lowest speed until incorporated.  Let dough rest for 2 minutes.  Then continue on this speed for 8 minutes
   Let dough rest for 20 minutes
   Using Crisco, grease the pan
   Sprinkle Corn Meal of the bottom and all edges of the pan
   Scrape dough into a greased pan
   With oiled finger tips, spread dough in pizza pan
   Cover and let rise for 3-4 hours
   Pre-heat oven to 500 degrees
   Pre-bake dough for 6 minutes at 500 degrees (I live at 6K feet, so you might not have to do this)
   Spread butter/garlic mixture over the top of the pizza crust
   Add a thin layer of sauce, pepperoni, cheese and sauce again (in rows)
   Bake on bottom oven rack for 12-15 min at 5000
   Remove and let cool

Pizza Sauce:
   Mix water with Stanislaus Pizza sauce until the sauce can drip off the spoon
   Add dices Anise, French Tarragon, Oregano and Garlic Chives to sauce mixture

Special Notes:
   Only pure white cheddar should be used on the perimeter of the pan to create the all important caramelized cheese crust
   Cheese in the middle of the pizza should be a blend of mozzarella and white cheddar (50/50)


Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #242 on: June 12, 2010, 03:20:11 PM »
I'm a baker of a another regional style of Sicilian that I bake in blue steel pans. I noticed that your pan appears to be steel. Is it? What kind is it and where did you get it from? It appears to have at least 2" high sides. Mine are only 1-1/8" high and using peanut oil with it, I have to be careful not to let the oil overflow the pans in the oven and smoke up the house. I'm looking for higher pans like the one in your picture.

Thanks,

steel_baker
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Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #243 on: June 14, 2010, 04:35:24 PM »
Hi Steel Bake,

The pan I used is a cheap metal.  It's not the super strong steel pans, but it works.  It does have the 2" high sides.  I purchased it at Bed Bath and Beyond.  Also seen it at Ross.

If you go to ebay and type in Pizza Pan, there is a guy selling the black steel pans in lots of 5 for $50.  They even come with a tray so you can stack them.

What kind of Sicilian pizza do you make?  I am always open to try new styles.

Thanks,

Grilled

Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #244 on: June 14, 2010, 11:00:01 PM »
Here is a link to some posts in a different thread: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5656.msg95399.html#msg95399

This has pictures and techniques. It's basically a style of pan pizza that is unique to the northeastern PA area. Very tasty soft dough crust, with an unspiced & uncooked tomato & onion sauce, and a light topping of white cheddar cheese. It's baked (well.... fried) in a steel or cast iron pan with lots of peanut oil in a 475 oven. It browns up nicely, gets a crisp bottom and maintains a soft top.

I grew up with it and in all my travels across the country, I have never found anything else like it, so I learned to make it for myself.

steel_baker
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Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #245 on: June 25, 2010, 11:48:32 PM »
Steel,

You have a nice blend of cheese and sauce.  Do you put the cheese on before the sauce?

Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #246 on: June 27, 2010, 03:22:30 PM »
Steel,

You have a nice blend of cheese and sauce.  Do you put the cheese on before the sauce?

No I still sauce it before putting on the cheese. The secret is not to use too much of either. I'm a big believer in "balance" in my cooking and so I try to get the right amount of sauce & cheese on without overwhelming the pizza with it.

steel_baker
steel_baker  :chef:

Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #247 on: June 28, 2010, 05:13:01 PM »
Hi Seel,

I tried the 67% hydration.  Very nice.  It had the similar texture as the 75%, but the dough was so much easier to handle.  It was nice to be able to spread it out then place it into the pan.  Next I will need to try the peanut oil.

Grilled

Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #248 on: June 28, 2010, 07:10:25 PM »
I tried 75% once and it was just too difficult to handle. I had difficulties with both handling and sticking to the pans so I cut back to 65% and crept up from there 1% at a time. 67% seemed to be the point where I had a great balance in crust, moisture & lightness.

I also asked myself constantly, "how would the VP restaurant do it?" They had to have production since they were serving hundreds of trays a night so they couldn't afford to have a dough that was hard to handle since as you know, it requires several rises and spreading in the pan. Can't do that with a machine.

I vacationed in Colorado a few weeks ago and relatives there wanted me to make it for them since it's quite a delicacy for those who grew up in NE PA but now live elsewhere. I mixed up both a 1-1/2 cup & 4 cup batch of dough by hand, working with strange pans (no steel), and a strange oven. Amazingly enough, it turned out wonderful and they were amazed I had duplicated their beloved Victory Pig pizza. Now they know how to do it too. They have the recipe and they've seen me make it.

I love making it but with the hot summer weather, I'm going to need to start baking it on the grill. I use a Phoenix grill which is indirect heat so it's more like an oven. I can set a temp and bake just like in my kitchen oven. I haven't done it yet but probably 4th of July weekend will give me some time to mix dough & bake. Just bought some more pans, some smaller sizes so I can continue to make the small 1-1/2 cup batches by hand. Makes it easier to experiment with toppings, etc.

By all means though, try the peanut oil. A big part of this pizza is the mouth feel. The crispy bottom with the soft top is very unique and makes for a very satisfying experience.

steel_baker

Should be a good weekend.
steel_baker  :chef:

Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #249 on: June 29, 2010, 12:15:30 AM »
The 75% is hard to handle.  When I made the 67%, the dough felt like it did when I was at a pizza joint back in MI. 

That's awesome your relatives loved your pizza.  There is nothing better when someone says how great your pizza is.  What part of CO were you in?

Grilling pizza is fun and it taste great.  Right now I am trying to make a hybrid pizza between Sicilian and Grilled.  Haven't figured it out yet, but I am close.  Since my grill is a direct heat, I have to put the cheese on 1st and sauce 2nd.  Otherwise the cheese does not melt and the crust gets too hard.

I will definitely try the peanut oil.  I have been using Crisco and my crust does not have that golden brown and I trying for.  Check out the pictures on the other forum you sent me too.

Have a great 4th.

Grilled


 

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