Author Topic: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's  (Read 177435 times)

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Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #220 on: March 25, 2010, 04:40:06 PM »
Sweet dice, glad you found your sweet spot!
White and yellow cheddar seem quite diff to me and I don't think yellow will give you the Buddy's crust or flavor.
But you should be able to find "Boars Head Vermont" white cheddar at most any decent Italian market/deli, not in chunks but behind the counter.  Nino Salvaggio's has/had it on sale recently, Vince & Joe's carries it, and if Pete & Franks is still in business in your area I bet they would have it.
The new Walmart on Hall Rd & Romeo Plank sells "Cabot Extra Sharp" white cheddar in 2 pound blocks at half the price of Boars Head, but not sure if every Walmart carries it.  These are the only two I have tried so far but Nino's has a few more that might work in chunks that are around the same price as Boars Head.
I don't think Roselli's sells white cheddar, at least they did not display it in the refrig case the last time I was there.  But they sell lots of stuff they do not display although those items are usually only avail in large quantities, like 20 - 40 lbs at a crack.  I will ask next time I am there and if they have something that sounds good maybe we could hook up and split an order.  Plus, I have found at these larger quantities the prices tend to be really low.
In my limited experience I would say you are looking for sharp or extra sharp white cheddar.  Come to think of it, I believe every white cheddar I have looked at was at least labeled as sharp.


Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #221 on: March 25, 2010, 05:53:23 PM »
Great work Dice.  Krogers will have it.  They are the same as King Soopers here in Colorado.  It is not located in the deli section, but where all the block cheese is located.  I asked the guy at first and he told me they do not carry White Cheddar.  Then I went to the cheese lady and she showed me where the block was.  Hope this helps. 


Offline dicepackage

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #222 on: March 26, 2010, 04:48:04 PM »
The problem was that I was looking for mild white cheddar.  I went to the store and got a pound of Cabot Vermont Extra Sharp cheese for five dollars.  I tried it out today with a blend of half mozzarella and half cheddar.  I used all cheddar in one section and that tasted pretty good.  I was a little sceptical about it turning out well since when I think of cheddar cheese I think of the goldfish crackers.

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #223 on: March 29, 2010, 02:35:59 PM »
Baked up two more of these this weekend, except used beer (Killian's Irish Red is what I had in the fridge) for 75% of the formula water.  Interestingly, the biggest change was in the texture, which seemed moister but more dense although the crumb was quite open.  The baked dough was also less white, I assume from the red beer, and I was surprised that taste-wise the beer only added a subtle difference.  I should have done a side by side to be sure though.  Anyway it was quite good and got thumbs up from my tasters.
One non Det with pesto and pep on top, and one clone version.

Offline norma427

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #224 on: March 29, 2010, 04:32:03 PM »
Baked up two more of these this weekend, except used beer (Killian's Irish Red is what I had in the fridge) for 75% of the formula water.  Interestingly, the biggest change was in the texture, which seemed moister but more dense although the crumb was quite open.  The baked dough was also less white, I assume from the red beer, and I was surprised that taste-wise the beer only added a subtle difference.  I should have done a side by side to be sure though.  Anyway it was quite good and got thumbs up from my tasters.
One non Det with pesto and pep on top, and one clone version.

PizzaHog,

Your pies look delicious!  :)  Adding the beer as part of the formula water is interesting.  Both pies sound tasty. 

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #225 on: March 31, 2010, 12:36:20 AM »
Nice pizza Hog!  I did beer once and had the same experience.  Makes it nice and moist and tasted great.  Buddy's or not, Pesto on top of the pie is awesome.  I think what makes a great Detroit style pizza is the crust, cheese on the bottom, and sauce on top.  Whatever else you put on it is style.

Also, I tried grilling this style pizza and it does not work.  I had to try.

Grilled

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #226 on: March 31, 2010, 08:25:13 PM »
Quote
Also, I tried grilling this style pizza and it does not work.  I had to try.
Of course you had to try, it is your handle after all! 
Yes, I think I would eat sawdust if it had pesto on it.  The beer dough thing was pretty good too, might play around with that some more.
Hog

Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #227 on: April 07, 2010, 10:27:37 PM »
Do you think Buddy's uses semolina flour?  I read in some other posts that this is used in Sicilian pizza. 

Grilled

Offline dicepackage

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #228 on: April 07, 2010, 11:50:22 PM »
I kind of doubt it.  The pizza is always very white from what I can recall in Buddys dough.  Some of the other Detroit style pizza places I have been to have also had the very white looking dough.

Offline DeanoX

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #229 on: April 10, 2010, 01:28:27 AM »
Hello everyone.

First off, I have to commend every poster in this thread.

Every picture and recipe, is great in their own right. Great work everyone, they all look Delicious!
Most of you could probably open pizza places, and make a living. Again, great work!

A little background on me first.

I grew up in Detroit, within walking distance of Shield's, and about a miles walk to the original Buddy's, on 7 and Conant.
My Mother tells me, that my first taste of Buddy's, was when I was 1 month old. I guess you could say I was weened on Buddy's pizza.  :-*

Every pizza I have, until this day, I compare to Buddy's pizza.
I Have been around the world, several times. I have even had pizza in Italy, the birth place of pizza I guess, but it does not compare to that sweet, not too thick, not to flat, square piece of heaven, that is Buddy's pizza, from Detroit.
Most all pizza I have had, has been good, but some should not even be called pizza.  >:D

In my early years, I was a professional cook, pizza maker, and head dishwasher, at many restaurants in Detroit, and beyond. I have made many, many attempts, at reproducing the original Buddy's pizza. All to no avail, close, but not the same.

Enough about me.

I had an Aunt, who worked at Buddy's, at the original Conant location, in the mid 70's, for a couple of summers. She had mentioned to me, and my family, on more than one occasion, some of the secrets of the Buddy's pizza, but not enough.

I remember that she had mentioned that there was cheese, in the dough. Not just in the crust, but in the actual preparation of the dough. "When the dough was made, a dry powdery cheese was added". Now I take that to mean that there was an addition of something dry, like Parmesan, being added to the dough, as it was mixed. Now do not take this as gospel, it is just what was I told. I was a kid, I was told lots of things.  ;D But I do, until this day, add Parmesan to my dough. It's good, and I do notice a difference in taste, when I do not add it.

Reading through the thread, there are some things that I know for a fact, that are true.
All Buddy's pizzas are made in seasoned, dark metal pans, and they are not washed. (just wiped clean between uses.)
Oil is bushed into the pans, before the dough is placed into the pans. ( I have seen it.)

What I do not know for fact, and I just remember being told.
The cheese is a mix of, brick, cheddar, provolone, and mozzarella.  Cubed, (cheese is used as the crust, pressed into the corners and sides, and spread into the pan lightly, as dough is placed into pan)
Oven temps, when they used pizza ovens, were high, 600+ degrees. But they now use conveyor, impinger type ovens.

I can not, to this day, reproduce it.

Luckily, I live only about 3 1/2 hours from the nearest Buddy's pizza. I frequent the store in Auburn Hill's, just off I-75, next to Oakland University.

The taste and texture does change, from location to location. But I assume that is because each location is not identical, like say a domino's or a pizza hut, where each location is an exact a reproduction of another kitchen.

More to come.

Thanks,
-Deano


Offline DeanoX

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #230 on: April 10, 2010, 02:04:32 AM »
Ok, I now I can not get this out my mind.

The original topic is, " "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's "

From what I know, have been to, and what I have tasted, all the "Detroit style" pizza's are all attempts at the original Buddy's pizza, each with their own twist. And that is fine, thanks to all, I appreciate it, more than you will ever know.

Buddy's beget, Shield's, Louie's, Savina's, Cloverleaf, Mike's around the corner, and a lot more. If you knew the true genealogy about each place, I am sure that somewhere, there is a tie to another place, that leads back to the original Buddy's somehow.

I am almost positive, that there have been cooks, waitresses, dish washers, delivery drivers, consumers, and more, that have crossed paths, amongst all the places in Detroit and beyond, that have produced similar, Detroit style, quality pizza.

The "Detroit style", of pizza, is quite unique. I have seen/had square pizza, deep dish, etc, in many places, but nothing compares.

Everyone on this forum, who has been trying to reproduce the original Buddy's or Shield's pizza, has one thing in common, they like it, they want it, and they want more of it.  :-D


Thanks,
-Deano


Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #231 on: April 10, 2010, 02:39:13 PM »
Welcome DeanoX
Great memories.  I have read the history of this pizza more than a few times in the Det newspapers as they publish such a story every few years it seems.  If they are to be believed Buddy's did start it all and the direct links to most of the well known others have been documented.  Since joining the forum I have learned a lineage like this exists for many regional styles all over the country.  So even though we are left chasing the ghost of the "original" (whatever that is to each person) it is fun and the results are most tasty so it's all good.  Hope you post your recipes and methods too.

I have baked up a few more of these since last posting. 
One improvement has been to season the heck out of the pan.  Oiling it up and running it thru the oven over and over has really helped in removing these pies and their caramelized cheese crust.  Still doesn't quite pop out yet but now a quick and single run around the edge with a plastic spatula separates the pie from the pan.  The seasoned pan actually works way better than my non stick.  Another few thousand cycles should do it.  Plus less OO is necs to still get a good crisp bottom.  I plan to try and talk one of the pizzerias that use these pans to sell me a few.
Peter's Cuisinart method of dicing up the cheese, especially the stickyish, smeary white cheddar's I have been using, makes much easier and quicker work of this chore compared to hand grating or knife dicing.  It tends to stick together some after dicing but separates easily enough when applying to the pie.  The dice size also works out well.
Although it should not be a surprise, shortening the ferment time via higher yeast or temps is not such a good thing.  Texture is still fine and with IDY and same day there is not all that much flavor to be concerned with, but these can really lay heavy on the stomach with an accelerated rise.
I finally bought a scale so I could get more consistent and nail down the small adjustment in hydration necs to get these as right as I can, and to use on all my doughs.  Unfortunately, my fridge just went on the fritz and a day later I lost electricity to half my kitchen and adjacent room (inc stove and micro)!  Not a breaker issue, it looks like I have an open circuit somewhere that needs to be chased down.  Of course this all occurs while the wife is out of town during the busiest work week I have had this year and next week I am out of town all week for work.  Lost a bunch of food and pizza ingredients and am temp living out of a cooler.  So out of action for a while and no pizza for me unless I buy one.  At least I can still drool over the photos on the forum in the meantime.  Maybe this will give me chance to try a few of the local pizza's I have been meaning to but just never got around to.  Oh well... 

Offline Grilled Pizza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #232 on: April 11, 2010, 06:17:02 PM »
I kind of doubt it.  The pizza is always very white from what I can recall in Buddys dough.  Some of the other Detroit style pizza places I have been to have also had the very white looking dough.

I made pizza this weekend with 40% semolina flour.  Not even close to Buddy's.  Your right about the white flour, but I just had to try it.   

Offline steve in FL

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #233 on: April 11, 2010, 08:08:49 PM »
Here's a Buddy's pizza I picked up from the Warren location the other day..

Offline PizzaNick

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #234 on: April 11, 2010, 10:02:37 PM »
Wow!  Ive never had a Buddy's, or any detroit style, or even heard of them until seeing them here, but that pic reeeally makes me want one haha. 

Offline jimmy33

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #235 on: April 12, 2010, 10:30:01 PM »
Pizza Hog
 Please help me with your 223 post . Measurements  and directions on how you make it . That Pizza looks phenomenal!!!!
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 10:31:50 PM by jimmy33 »

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #236 on: April 13, 2010, 12:01:06 AM »
Pizza Hog
 Please help me with your 223 post . Measurements  and directions on how you make it . That Pizza looks phenomenal!!!!
Thanks Jimmy, post 199.  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=e2f8494ca4fa9c135c56a4ac2e002728&topic=3783.msg92963#msg92963

Offline Modegolf

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Cheese Blend Question!
« Reply #237 on: April 26, 2010, 12:20:35 PM »
Hello,

In this forum's opinion, what is the authentic blend of cheeses for a Buddy's/Detroit style pizza?

I think it's 50% Mozz /30% Brick (or White Cheddar) / 20% Provalone, but I am not sure.  I have read in this thread's instructions to put 100% Brick/White Cheddar on the edges to get a crispy cheese crust...and that is AWESOME! 

But I don't want to buy Provalone if I don't have to!

Thank you all!

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #238 on: April 26, 2010, 04:12:58 PM »
Quote
In this forum's opinion, what is the authentic blend of cheeses for a Buddy's/Detroit style pizza?
Can only speak for myself and my tasters who feel it is the white cheddar flavor that makes this a Det pie and must shine through.  I can say that the sharp white cheddar is way more flavor intense than any mozz or prov I ever tried so your ratio at 30% cheddar might be right on as long as the cheddar flavor is still there.  Then again, a pure white cheddar pie is pretty dang good too and there is no reason to not end up at where YOU like it best.  We are still deciding that issue and eating lots of pies to help that along. 
You now have me thinking though that I never tried a blend on the edges.  Yup, even more pizza will now be necessary to test that.
Short story is I personally would not worry about skipping the 20% prov at this point since it is all about that cheddar anyway...
Please let us know what you try and how it worked out for you.
Good Luck!


Offline steel_baker

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #239 on: May 10, 2010, 10:28:03 PM »
Well... being a western Pennsylvanian and having had Buddy's once (went out of my way to try it, enjoyed it), it is definitely about the cheddar. Very tangy, I initially thought that parmesan was involved but after using so much white cheddar myself in my sicilians, it's the cheddar, and that crispy cheese crust around the edges. That's unique to Detroit as far as I can see. I haven't seen it anywhere else but then what do I know?

steel_baker
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