Looking at dough pricing to choose...

[dark_angel04]

ok, I am debating whether to use KASL flour on my pizza or not.  Basically, I am concerned about the cost of my pizza.  My dad buys local All-purpose flower at $14 dollars for a 55 lbs bag.  The Caputo pizza flour is $45.90 for a 55 lbs. bag and the KASL is $2.05 at case quatity price which for 55 lbs. is around $37.57.  I need to try to keep my cost down, not only as a finance point of view, but half of my projected customers won't pay higher money for a quality pie.  I slice of pizza can go from $1.50 with a small soda   The pizza really, really sucks, but it's cheap...

The flour my dad buys, looks and tastes more like a big flour tortilla.  I have read that High-Gluten flours makes a lot of difference in the end product and my idea is to make american style pizza.  I guess I am asking for your opinion here, do you think is worth paying the extra to have the KASL on my pies?  I need to do some more cost analysis and see what the final cost of my pizzas will be...

If you were to have 1 very good quality thing on your pizza (cause I was looking at Escalon tomatoes and Grande cheese) what would you put the more $$$$ in, dough, cheese or sauce??? I guess dough, but please shot.

Thanks a lot

[pizzoid]

ok, I am debating whether to use KASL flour on my pizza or not.  Basically, I am concerned about the cost of my pizza.  My dad buys local All-purpose flower at $14 dollars for a 55 lbs bag.  The Caputo pizza flour is $45.90 for a 55 lbs. bag and the KASL is $2.05 at case quatity price which for 55 lbs. is around $37.57.  I need to try to keep my cost down, not only as a finance point of view, but half of my projected customers won't pay higher money for a quality pie.

Huh? US Foodservice quoted me either $14.25 or $14.75 for a 50 lb. bag of KASL (but have to meet the $500 min delivery). Even my local bakery-in-a-supermarket resells it to me $25 for a bag. All Trump is $12 at cash & carry places.

If you were to have 1 very good quality thing on your pizza (cause I was looking at Escalon tomatoes and Grande cheese) what would you put the more $$$$ in, dough, cheese or sauce??? I guess dough, but please shot.

See, now you can afford the dough, AND the Escalon, AND the Grande!

 -Al

[dark_angel04]

LOL... yes and I just read another thread (KASL for cheap).  I do need the 50 lbs bags.... 

[Pete-zza]

dark_angel04,

I agree with Al that you should be able to get KASL for a lot cheaper, around $12-13 for a 50-lb. bag. Also, I don't think that you need to lock yourself into using KASL. There are other good high-gluten flours out there, including All Trumps. I don't know which side of the Arizona/Mexican border you and your dad will be making your pizzas, but you may want to try to locate a distributor or foodservice company in Arizona for as many of your pizza ingredients as you can. I know that King Arthur has a bakery distributor in Tempe, AZ. It is Foodservice International, at 888-889-9582, and may be a possible source if you are set on using KASL.

You may also want to go to this website, http://www.pmq.com/fooddistributors.shtml, click on Arizona, and check out some of the major foodservice companies in the state. For example, you will see Roma Food Enterprises and Vistar on the list. Roma was acquired by Vistar and is big in the Italian pizza category. If you click on the Roma link you should get to the Tempe site where all the products sold by Roma at the Tempe distribution center are listed. I have done so and can tell you that Roma carries the All Trumps high-gluten flour, a very broad selection of Stanislaus canned tomatoes, the ground 6-in-1s from Escalon, and Grande cheeses.

Unless you have a very high temperature oven, I would stay away from the Caputo flour for now and concentrate on your American style pizza. If you can find reasonably priced sources for the high-gluten flour and tomatoes, I personally would put the savings into using a good cheese. It doesn't have to be a Grande, which is very good for a NY style, but it should be good. Leprino is another popular brand of pizza cheeses among pizza operators. Using a cheap cheese with good dough and tomatoes would not be the way I would want to go.

I don't know if the Roma/Vistar possibility will work for you, but if Tempe is too far away for you, you may want to check the foodservice list referenced above to see if there is someone closer to you. Maybe someone in Tucson.

Peter

[dark_angel04]

Thanks Pete, in fact I had already printed out a product list from Vistar (this is where one of the top Arizona pizzerias buy their product  ) and I was planning to visit them sometime next week.  My pizzeria will be on the mexican side and Tempe is about 2 and a half hours from here, so it is not too bad, one trip every two - three weeks to get the supplies is not bad.

I contacted KA and they gave me that number also for Food Source International, but there is something wrong with the number and I get a Verizon answering machine.  I have a list of several vendors in the Phoenix area which I will visit them all on the same day.

My oven can reach up to 380 degrees celcius (about 716 degrees fahrenheit), I thought about making Naepolitan pizza style pizza, but I am not sure if my market is ready for it or if they would like it, so I want to concentrate on American style pizza.  I also found the Escalon to be of a very reasonable price, only 50 cents more of what my dad was using.

Basically right now, I know the products (flour, sauce, cheese, perpperoni, etc, etc) are available in the Tucson - Phoenix area, veggies, ham, olives I can get all of that here.  What I am doing right now is an analysis of cost vs quality vs profit, having my pizzeria on the mexican side (and specially downtown) I cannot go very high on prices to the public, but I know a good pizza is not easily find nowadays and some people will pay for a good pie, so I need a balance of good pizza, but not too expensive... fun ah!

Which other High Gluten flour is good..... have you heard of Bouncer, King Keiser, Full Power, Power and Dakatona (or something like that), this are all available thru Aroma foods in Tempe.

Thanks a lot for all ur help.

[Pete-zza]

dark_angel104,

That's great news.

FYI, the correct number for Food Source International is 1-888-889-9282. It was stated wrong at the King Arthur professionals site. The regular number for FSI is 480-829-0886.

You might also be interested in knowing that Shamrock Foods, in the Phoenix area, is a stocking distributor for the Caputo flours, according to the most recent distributors list at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2594.msg22473.html#msg22473. If you decide you would like to give the Caputo 00 flour a try, you may want to get the 00 Pizzeria flour rather than the Extra Blu.

I am familiar with all the names of alternative high-gluten flours that you mentioned, but as a home pizza maker I don't use that much flour and, hence, don't have any experience with those other brands. Since flour at your level is cheap, you might give the other flours a try once in a while. We already know that the KASL and All Trumps are very good flours so it seems to me that there would have to be a material differential in price to seriously consider the other brands.

Peter

[dark_angel04]

I finally got in touch with Food Source International, they do not carry the King Arthur brand anymore.... the guy I talked to said they sold their last one a few days ago...    But he says he has more good options so I got a visit programed with him next Tuesday

[dark_angel04]

At the beginning I was thinking of using the Caputo flour, but then I thought it was only to make Neapolitan style pizza, so I can do American style also?  Is the caputo a high-gluten flour?

[Pete-zza]

dark_angel104,

The Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour is rated at 11.5-12.5% protein. However, it behaves differently than U.S. flours with similar protein content. You can't use them interchangeably. I would only use the Caputo Pizzeria flour for a Neapolitan style and with a high-temperature oven. It's rare to find a pizza operator making both an American and Neapolitan style. You would need to have different dough formulations, different dough management, different ingredients, and possibly different ovens and oven settings. That may be too much complexity for a new pizzeria.

Peter

[dark_angel04]

Yes indeed, and that's why I stopped looking at the caputo flour cause I am not making neapolitan style pizzas... I am not sure how people would react here to that pizza.  So I am going to stick to a US flour and making american style pizza.