Author Topic: NYC Pizza for Evelyne  (Read 11330 times)

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Offline Repguy

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2006, 12:00:27 PM »
So, where can I purchase your published works? 


Offline shango

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2006, 12:59:51 PM »




Good luck to you and woodstone and the poor clients that want to produce authentic Neapolitan pizza out of those ovens...


OK! I'm ready to buy the forno bravo catering oven...........
OH, the website says check back later....
pizza, pizza, pizza

Offline varasano

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2006, 02:32:09 PM »
I know I said this already, but boy are my instincts on:

"This is my favorite thread of all time."
        - Jeff



Offline EdF

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2006, 03:17:21 PM »
I'll say one thing despite the arguing - I'm looking forward to Marco publishing his book.

Offline varasano

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2006, 03:30:57 PM »
Did I mention that My great grandfather on my mother's side said that his grandfather's uncle's cousin knew George Washington and said he was a wussy who wore women's clothes and sucked his thumb.

Just thought you all should know - ya know to set the record straight.


Offline youonlylivetwice

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2006, 03:34:32 PM »
wasn't it your grandfather's uncle's cousin who actually coined the term "wussy"?
 I don't think it was ever used to describe a sitting President prior to that.  Give credit where credit is due.




Offline Finnegans Wake

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2006, 04:24:19 PM »
Hey, who's this Lombardi guy you're all talking about?










[*Ducks from copious amounts of tomatoes being thrown his way*]
Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. --
Mark Twain

Offline scott r

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2006, 05:17:39 PM »
lombardi's NYC- first pizzeria in the US

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2006, 06:19:58 PM »
The direction of this post has swiftly changed, and sarcasms has prevailed.

 I believe it is good to be presented with evidence of both theories..

Evelyn,

It was a pleasure exchanging words with you

Best regards

Marco


Offline Pizza Shark

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2006, 07:42:49 PM »
Obviously, no one here works full-time in a pizzaria or they wouldn't have time for such mindless chatter.  C'mon folks, don't waste so much time looking to the past as it is just that... HISTORY.  This is a "what-can-ya-do-for-me-now" world.  Anyone care to comment on the recipe for the bread served at The Last Supper?  Let's all try to duplicate it! 

A great pizza is just that... A great pizza.  A great pizza can come from a hobart and a gas oven just as it can come from someone who kneeds his dough in a wooden bucket by hand and bakes it in a coal oven tee-pee constructed of bricks from a building that collapsed nearby.  That would be NY style.  As Italy didn' t have much coal available,  they had to stick to sticks to build their fires.

Only thing I can see of value here is after WWIII we'll all be able to make a pizza "ole-style" again with buckets, sticks and some sorta fire.

Pizza Shark   

     

Offline gottabedapan

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2006, 07:48:17 PM »

Last year when I was in NYC and visited with Cookie--Pero's niece, I point blank confronted her with this BS about Anthony Pero as the pizza maker and Lombardi as the "grocer". Jerry Pero told me all about his father and how he worked with Lombardi and how they worked together as pizza makers. Jerry was justly proud of maintaining the same formula as Lombardi did back in 1905--he used to brag that not even at Lombardi's do they still make it this way! When I said to Cookie, "come on, you know that Lombardi wasn't just a grocer, you know he was the one who sponsored Anthony into the US--!" She sheepishly agreed with me because she knows that I got my information straight from the horses mouth and she's also known me personally for all that time too.

Let us not forget when I was gathering all of this information 30 years ago, there was no reason for anyone to lie to me. First of all, none of the families took me seriously, they couldn't figure out why I wanted to learn about them. Many of the key family members and even some of the pizza makers were still alive and I was able to get their personal stories. I was able to check out their stories from other sources as well, so my accounts are quite accurate. But over all of these years, especially after key family members die, the family wants to profit from their reputation and that's when the %$#& hits the fan. My research had no ulterior motives, I was simply trying to record the story and find out how these wonderful pizzas were actually made.

Please, no more about this ridiculous notion that Lombardi didn't know how to make pizza and had to be taught by other pizza makers--that is simply absurd.

It's a shame that Marco has apparently allowed his provincialism and prejudices cloud the objectivity of his historical judgment, because, as much as I have been looking forward to his book, it raises serious doubt—at least in my mind—about the credibility of the rest of his reconstruction of the history and practice of Neapolitan pizza-making, especially because he so often chides other posters for failing to do their research. I will probably still buy his book once it is published, but I suspect that I will take his claims with a much more jaundiced eye than I would have otherwise.

Offline Repguy

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2006, 09:40:40 PM »
Gottabedapan,

Well put.  Or, allow me to paraphrase,

"If you really don't know for sure, baffle them with Bull***T."  That is his method. Unfortunatley, it has seemed to work on alot of people here.  Just my opinion,  you will never see a book from him. 

Offline chiguy

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2006, 10:12:55 PM »
 Hi members,
 Neither Marco or Evelyne Sloman have anything to prove here and we should be thankful by all the useful information they have provided here and elsewhere(especially Marco). It is rare to find people with so much knowledge that are willing too share it with others at basically no cost. I will say that i had the pleasure of meeting Evelyne at the Vegas Pizza Expo, and took her class there. I found her to a very humble person who had a great deal of knowledge and passion without the slightest bit of arrogance. Even with i am sure a very busy schedule she took the time to answer all my questions.  Thankyou Evelyne & Marco,  Chiguy

Offline SLICEofSLOMON

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2006, 10:24:29 PM »


Hey, speak for yourself!  :chef: I do own and operate a pizza place, Nizza La Bella and I make time for writing. Here is a picture of our oven at the begining of the evening. I still have to take some pictures of our pizza but, haven't had the time yet to bring in the camera and futz around. Yes, operating your own joint is quite time consuming--it takes up most of my life, um pretty much all of my life :-D

Evelyne

Offline chiguy

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2006, 10:32:42 PM »
 Hi Evelyne,
 Yes i knew you were a operator as well as author.  Although i recalled at the show you mentioned operating 2 places?? I have already been too your website www.nizzalabella.com , and checked out the menu. I don't know if i will ever make it out that way but if i do your place is on my list.       Chiguy
                                                                                                                           

Offline scott r

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #40 on: October 11, 2006, 10:43:44 PM »
repguy,

If you were really an active member of this forum you would know that Marco is very much responsible for a huge portion of the information here that has greatly improved our pizzamaking.  That is the primary purpose of this forum after all.  Sometimes you have to read between the lines with his posts, as he is trying to protect his value as a consultant to Neapolitan pizzaras.  I have spent hours upon hours rereading his posts testing (and trying to disprove) his theories and directions.  I always come to the conclusion that he must have experimented much more than I have because he is always right.  Have you ever gone back and researched all of his posts?  Have you ever tried his techniques?

Marco has been our link to the ability to learn from the masters in Italy who have been studying and improving upon pizza for centuries.  If it weren't for him we would have to fly to Naples (with an interpreter in my case) and spend months investigating just to scratch the surface of learning what he has given us here for free.  Yes his tone can come off as arrogant, but anybody that was a forum member before he came to pizzamaking.com can attest to the fact that the knowledge he has brought to this forum is invaluable.  I am willing to accept his tone as he is definitely the most schooled member of our forum when it comes to Neapolitan pizza, and NY style pizza after all is its direct cousin.  I am grateful that he has been willing to share with us at all here. 
« Last Edit: October 11, 2006, 11:44:07 PM by scott r »

Offline SLICEofSLOMON

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #41 on: October 11, 2006, 10:45:15 PM »
Chiguy,

I don't own two places--yet :pizza: I am working on a second concept to open sometime next year--hopefully.

Evelyne


Offline gottabedapan

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2006, 01:00:08 AM »
Repguy,

It takes some nerve for a pot to call the kettle black.

I CATEGORICALLY REJECT your alleged "paraphrase" as fairly representing my sentiment, because, unlike you—apparently—I bear no animus or ill will toward Marco. While I consider it unfortunate that Marco occasionally allows his prejudices to cloud his judgment: unfortunate because he is by far the most accomplished practitioner of the craft of pizza-making in the Neapolitan tradition among the posters on this board, I have nothing but respect for his expertise as a pizzamaker and his passion to preserve and promote the Neapolitan pizza-making tradition. So while I will read his book with a more jaundiced eye toward his value judgements and historiographical assertions than I might otherwise, I will buy it when it is available and I will read it because I am far from an accomplished pizza-maker in any tradition, and desire to improve my pizza-making skills.

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2006, 04:18:40 AM »
Repguy,

It takes some nerve for a pot to call the kettle black.

I CATEGORICALLY REJECT your alleged "paraphrase" as fairly representing my sentiment, because, unlike you—apparently—I bear no animus or ill will toward Marco. While I consider it unfortunate that Marco occasionally allows his prejudices to cloud his judgment: unfortunate because he is by far the most accomplished practitioner of the craft of pizza-making in the Neapolitan tradition among the posters on this board, I have nothing but respect for his expertise as a pizzamaker and his passion to preserve and promote the Neapolitan pizza-making tradition. So while I will read his book with a more jaundiced eye toward his value judgements and historiographical assertions than I might otherwise, I will buy it when it is available and I will read it because I am far from an accomplished pizza-maker in any tradition, and desire to improve my pizza-making skills.

I believe this is my last post on the subject.  One thing I want to say for sure: I have used the "Harward reference system" in my reserach and all the evidence are presented in the book with the proper "bibliography" (mostly books from 1600 to 2003, but also much earlier) and direct interviews with old pizzaioli and historic pizzeria owner. The reader will be free to get to his own conclusin having seen the evidence.  My intention is not to cover NYC pizza and only a small paragraph is dedicated to this, with all the evidence on why the assertion that Gennaro Lombardi came to NYC as an accomplished pizzaiolo are difficult to believe.

Have a nice day

Ciao

Marco


Offline Repguy

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #44 on: October 12, 2006, 09:10:12 AM »
So marco,

Where is your pizzaria located and where can we find your books? 

Offline Pizza Shark

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #45 on: October 12, 2006, 08:54:09 PM »
Sorry Evelyne.. you did mention that you owned a pizzeria.  I was just trying to make another one of my stupid points. 

I just had the pleasure of visiting your restaurant's website... well done.  You got quite a bit of funk in you.  I love it.

Pizza Shark         

Offline SLICEofSLOMON

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #46 on: October 12, 2006, 11:38:10 PM »
Hey Pizza Shark,

You bet I've got some funk going on. I have to make some real NY pizza out here in the land of California pizza just to keep my sanity. And, thank God the joint has a bar--a damn fine one too! >:D

Evelyne

Offline Finnegans Wake

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #47 on: October 13, 2006, 11:39:47 AM »
lombardi's NYC- first pizzeria in the US


Guess I wasn't clear enough... It was a joke...  I do at least know that much!   :P
Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. --
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Offline kling

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #48 on: October 17, 2006, 06:06:32 PM »
So marco,

Where is your pizzaria located and where can we find your books? 

Where is your sense of decorum? You are terribly annoying.

Offline nepa-pizza-snob

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Re: NYC Pizza for Evelyne
« Reply #49 on: October 17, 2006, 10:25:49 PM »
Nice place Eve - its extremely close to my vision. We have little in that culinary vein in NEPA. A little French flair with wood oven roasted bits and aficcionado pizzas. Mmm. I can smell the ovens burning now.