Author Topic: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza  (Read 416869 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1075 on: September 07, 2016, 04:24:11 PM »
Ovenray,

I believe that fresh milk is avoided in part because it is easier and more convenient to use dry milk powder but also because there may be food safety issues if fresh milk is not properly refrigerated. Also, Tom Lehmann says that one should scald fresh milk and cool it before adding it to the dough. This can be a real pain. Notwithstanding this advice, I saw a Vito & Nick's video some time ago and it showed the owner pouring milk out of a jug. Milk is also expensive and it may be cheaper and more convenient to use whey (a heat treated form) if it is browning of the crust that is desired. In Pizza Hut's case, they went to frozen dough and, in so doing, it jettisoned the dry milk powder and dry buttermilk powder.

If you are interested, this is a pretty good PMQ Think Tank thread on the subject of use of milk in pizza dough:

http://thinktank.pmq.com/threads/milk-in-dough.407/

Papa John's avoids the kinds of issues involving the use of milk products or whey by using a lot of sugar in the dough. So, there is plenty of sugars available at the time of baking to contribute to crust coloration. But at the risk of people, like Tom's wife, who may find the crust too sweet.

As an aside, Donatos also used to use fresh eggs. It still lists whole eggs in its ingredients statements but it is not clear whether the eggs are fresh or dried (the milk they now use is dry milk). Years ago, they touted the nutritional and healthful effects of fresh milk and eggs but stopped using that strategy somewhere along the line--maybe when eggs fell out of favor because of their alleged high cholesterol content and whole milk was frowned upon because of its high fat levels.

Peter

Offline Ovenray

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1076 on: September 07, 2016, 04:40:33 PM »
Food safety is definitely an item. The scalding of milk however isnt neccessary when using milk that has allready been pasteurized while the bacteria and enzymes allready have been killed/destroyed during pasteurization.

Thanks for the information and for the link Pete-zza!
I'm grateful for all things learned from you folks.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1077 on: September 07, 2016, 06:36:58 PM »
Food safety is definitely an item. The scalding of milk however isnt neccessary when using milk that has allready been pasteurized while the bacteria and enzymes allready have been killed/destroyed during pasteurization.
Ovenray,

Pasteurization of milk had been around since about 1900 from what I can tell, so I tend to doubt that Tom Lehmann, as a fifty-year veteran of the American Institute of Baking, would not know that and would nonetheless suggest scalding of the milk if it is to be used in dough. As I understand it, scalding takes place at a temperature several degrees above the temperature of pasteurization. Both methods kill bacteria and disable certain enzymes but scalding also disables or denatures the undenatured proteins in milk that can cause the types of problems in the dough that Tom talked about.

Peter

Offline Ovenray

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1078 on: September 07, 2016, 07:20:35 PM »
Pasteurization of milk had been around since about 1900 from what I can tell, so I tend to doubt that Tom Lehmann, as a fifty-year veteran of the American Institute of Baking, would not know that and would nonetheless suggest scalding of the milk if it is to be used in dough. As I understand it, scalding takes place at a temperature several degrees above the temperature of pasteurization. Both methods kill bacteria and disable certain enzymes but scalding also disables or denatures the undenatured proteins in milk that can cause the types of problems in the dough that Tom talked about.

The way I understand it scalding temperature is about 82 celcius while pasteurizing happens at 72 and while there's a difference in temperature both methods do the same except for the denaturing. Since I do not have the milage Tom Lehman has, nor his scientific background, I just have to take his (and therefor your) word (science) for it, scalding it is :)
I'm grateful for all things learned from you folks.