Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?

[norma427]

Norma,

Thank you very much for posting the Steen's specs. When I have a chance, I am going to compare the specs for the various products for which we have the specs. However, I note that Steen's describes both of its products (the 100% Pure Cane Syrup and the Dark Molasses) as having a golden color. I know that the Steen's 100% Pure Cane Syrup can be used in large amounts before the dough starts to turn brown, so one might properly characterize the 100% Pure Cane Syrup as having a golden color at that point, even though in the bottle the 100% Pure Cane Syrup looks dark like a molasses. I would imagine that one would have to use less of the Steen's Dark Molasses to reach the same color in the dough as with the 100% Pure Cane Syrup. I have not seen the Steen's Dark Molasses in the supermarkets near me, only the 100% Pure Cane Syrup.

It might be interesting sometime to see if specs are available for the retail level molasses products, such as those sold by Grandma's and Brer Rabbit. That would complete the picture more fully.

Peter

Peter,

Although I don’t understand the specs that well, I also noted both specs describes both products as a golden color.  I know you posted before the Steen’s 100% Pure Cane Syrup can be use in large amounts.  I would imagine that one would have to use less of the Steen’s Dark Molasses to reach the same color in the dough as when using the 100% Pure Cane Syrup.  I haven’t seen the Steen’s 100% Pure Cane Syrup or the Steen’s Dark Molasses in any supermarkets near me.  I haven’t looked in all the supermarkets or called them either. 

I wonder how we could get the specs for the Grandma’s and Brer Rabbit molasses to compete the picture more fully.  I could call them about the specs, but don’t know where to start.  I will have to think how to go about that.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

Last night, I tried sending an email to the parent company (B&G Foods) of Grandma's and Brer Rabbit molasses products but the email aborted. However, I found an 888 number and plan to call them early next week. I believe I have or can locate the basic Nutrition Facts for those products but it would be interesting, and maybe helpful, to see more detailed specs.

As I see it, there will always be three problems or barriers for member who want to try to replicate and clone an MM dough/pizza. First, there is the issue of selection. Members will have to select from the types of molasses products readily available to them. In most cases, that means retail level molasses products like the Grandma's Original or Robust molasses or the Brer Rabbit Full Flavor or Mild Flavor molasses or maybe a Barbados Plantation molasses. They won't have products like the Homemaid Molasses that are available only to professionals on a large scale basis. Second, there is the issue of color. Unless the members have a sample of a real MM dough, or a proxy in the form of a paint or carpet patch (and I honestly don't see people running to their local big box hardware stores), they won't know how much of the molasses product they have on hand to use to achieve the color of a real MM dough. Third, there is the issue of sweetness. Members won't know how much of the molasses products they have on hand to use in order to achieve noticeable sweetness in the finished crust. Even at MM stores they don't get sweetness consistently, or some have it and others do not.

The only true solution to the above problems is knowing and being able to procure the exact same molasses product that MM uses, and then doing some modest amount (we hope) of experimentation. Most people do not have the desire or ability to do experimentation with all of the variables noted above. You, and I, and Steve, and Biz, and Gene and maybe a few others might have the stomach for such an endeavor, and to do some research and experimentation, but few else will. And they will not want to read or scan through 1361 posts (and counting) spread over 69 pages (and counting) to find an MM clone dough formulation to try. Moreover, they may also need to know how to use the expanded dough calculating tool to come up with a version that meets their specific needs.

The reality is that most people who come to the forum are looking for a single silver bullet recipe laid out in black and white that gets the job done. Right now, the best we can offer is several MM clone dough formulations that we believe come reasonably close even though some of them, such as those calling for honey or dark brown sugar, or turbinado/raw cane sugar (as well as molasses), do not meet the specific MM criteria. Maybe in due course, after comparing the specs of the various molasses products, we might be able to give rough percentages of the amounts of those product to use. As an example, if the Homemaid molasses you used and liked is similar to the Grandma's Original molasses, as Paulette at Domino indicated, then the Grandma's Original molasses might be used in the same amount as you used with the Homemaid Molasses an the MM#7 formulation. My thinking at the moment is that if B&G Foods can send me specs on their molasses products I might be able to confirm whether the Homemaid Molasses is indeed similar to the Grandma's Original molasses or maybe one of the Brer Rabbit molasses products.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

Last night, I tried sending an email to the parent company (B&G Foods) of Grandma's and Brer Rabbit molasses products but the email aborted. However, I found an 888 number and plan to call them early next week. I believe I have or can locate the basic Nutrition Facts for those products but it would be interesting, and maybe helpful, to see more detailed specs.

As I see it, there will always be three problems or barriers for member who want to try to replicate and clone an MM dough/pizza. First, there is the issue of selection. Members will have to select from the types of molasses products readily available to them. In most cases, that means retail level molasses products like the Grandma's Original or Robust molasses or the Brer Rabbit Full Flavor molasses or maybe a Barbados Plantation molasses. They won't have products like the Homemaid Molasses that are available only to professionals on a large scale basis. Second, there is the issue of color. Unless the members have a sample of a real MM dough, or a proxy in the form of a paint or carpet patch (and I honestly don't see people running to their local big box hardware stores), they won't know how much of the molasses product they have on hand to use to achieve the color of a real MM dough. Third, there is the issue of sweetness. Members won't know how much of the molasses products they have on hand to use in order to achieve noticeable sweetness in the finished crust. Even at MM stores they don't get sweetness consistently, or some have it and others do not.

The only true solution to the above problems is knowing and being able to procure the exact same molasses product that MM uses, and then doing some modest amount (we hope) of experimentation. Most people do not have the desire or ability to do experimentation with all of the variables noted above. You, and I, and Steve, and Biz, and Gene and maybe a few others might have the stomach for such an endeavor, and to do some research and experimentation, but few else will. And they will not want to read or scan through 1361 posts (and counting) spread over 69 pages (and counting) to find an MM clone dough formulation to try. Moreover, they may also need to know how to use the expanded dough calculating tool to come up with a version that meets their specific needs.

The reality is that most people who come to the forum are looking for a single silver bullet recipe laid out in black and white that gets the job done. Right now, the best we can offer is several MM clone dough formulations that we believe come reasonably close even though some of them, such as those calling for honey or dark brown sugar, or turbinado/raw cane sugar (as well as molasses), do not meet the specific MM criteria. Maybe in due course, after comparing the specs of the various molasses products, we might be able to give rough percentages of the amounts of those product to use. As an example, if the Homemaid molasses you used and liked is similar to the Grandma's Original molasses, as Paulette at Domino indicated, then the Grandma's Original molasses might be used in the same amount as you used with the Homemaid Molasses an the MM#7 formulation. My thinking at the moment is that if B&G Foods can send me specs on their molasses products I might be able to confirm whether the Homemaid Molasses is indeed similar to the Grandma's Original molasses or maybe one of the Brer Rabbit molasses products.

Peter

Peter,

Last evening after I posted I wrote a message on B&G Foods contact page at http://www.bgfoods.com/about/contact.asp after I couldn’t find much information.  I really didn’t search a lot for a phone number. I basically said in my message that I was pizza operator that was experimenting with using either Grandma’s Original Molasses or Brer Rabbit Mild Flavored Molasses in a pizza dough and wasn’t getting the results I wanted, so I requested the specs for both products.  I don’t think that is the right approach, but tried it anyway.  Maybe you will be more successful since you found B&G Foods 888 number.

I also see problems or barriers for a members or guests that might want to try a clone MM dough.  To produce a real MM dough we would need to know the exact molasses MM uses, which I doubt we will ever find out.  Of course, there are many good formulations here for members or guests to try.  I know most members or guests don’t want to read though all these pages and posts to find what formulation might work for them depending on what kind of molasses product they have access to.  I know the reality is most people that come to the forum are looking for a single sliver bullet recipe laid out in black and white that gets the job done.  I believe in letting people work a little for their dinner.  There are many clone dough formulations for different types of pizza on this forum and many people come to the forum and try the clone dough formulations and never even report how they worked for them.  Even a pizza operator could read this thread and in short time know about how to make a decent MM clone.

Do you want me to try an experiment on the Grandma’s Original Molasses with the MM#7 formulation to see if it was anything like when I used the Homemaid Molasses in the formulation, or should I just let that go for now?

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Do you want me to try an experiment on the Grandma’s Original Molasses with the MM#7 formulation to see if it was anything like when I used the Homemaid Molasses in the formulation, or should I just let that go for now?

Norma,

If you are up to it, I think it would we worth trying the Grandma's Original Molasses with the MM#7 formulation since the Grandma's Original Molasses is available virtually everywhere at the retail level. Also, I compared the data on the Homemaid Molasses and the Grandma's Original Molasses and they do seem fairly close.

FYI, today I managed to find a bottle of the Plantation Barbados Molasses, which I believe to be a Fancy, or first boil molasses. You can see the Nutrition Facts at http://www.alliedoldenglish.com/plantation.php?flavor=barbados. It appears to my tastebuds to be close to the Grandma's Original Molasses in terms of sweetness but the Grandma's Original Molasses seems to me to have more of a bite--with a bit more of a tangy flavor.

Having looked at all of the specs and Nutrition Facts available to us, and pending what we might get in the way of specs from B&G Foods (and maybe from Allied Old English on the Plantation Barbados Molasses), I would tentatively rank order the different molasses products we have been examining in terms of sweetness as follows:

Steen's 100% Pure Cane Syrup
Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses
Homemaid Molasses
Grandma's Original Molasses
Grandma's Robust Molasses
Plantation Barbados Molasses
Brer Rabbit Mild Flavor Molasses
Brer Rabbit Full Flavor Molasses

I am not sure at this point where the Crosby's Fancy Molasses fits in the above listing. Its ranking awaits the results of CDNpielover's next experiment with that product. But, what the above listing does say is that as you go down the list, the amounts of sugars decline and the intensity of flavor increases. Also, the color of the molasses product gets darker as one goes down the list. If MM is intentionally trying to achieve noticeable sweetness in its finished crust while retaining a modest color in the dough, then I tend to think that it plays around with the top of the above list rather than the lower part of the list looking for that desirable balance between sweetness and color. I have intentionally not included any 100% blackstrap molasses products in the above list, for two reasons. First, MM would not be using such a product by itself (although it might conceivably blend some with another molasses or pure cane juice/syrup, like Golden Molasses does) and, second, it has little sugars. But blackstrap molasses would have the maximum flavor. It would also be the most healthful with the most nutritional value.

Peter

[CDNpielover]

I made another pie tonight using Pete's latest formulation for Crosby's Fancy Molasses.  It turned out great - my best MM pie so far.  I preheated at 475 and cooked for about 11 minutes, moving the pie from the stone (bottm rack) to an upper rack after about 8 minutes.  This temperature worked great for me and I had very little darkening of the bottom.  The rim was also a lot moister and chewier than the last couple of times.

We did notice some sweetness in the crust this time, so I think it helped to increase the amount of Crosby's Fancy Molasses.  The dough didn't seem any darker to me than previously.  I do have a pic that I'll post when I get to it, if someone is really interested it would probably give me some incentive to do it quicker, so let me know!

It will probably be a couple of weeks before I make a MM pie again, since I've really been craving a Chicago thin lately and I only make pizza once a week.   

[Pete-zza]

CDNpielover,

Since I have been trying to figure out where the Crosby Fancy Molasses fits within the spectrum of molasses products, I would appreciate seeing the photo of your latest MM clone pizza. I'd also be interested in knowing whether you would like to increase the amount of the Crosby molasses to get even more sweetness, even if that might mean a slightly darker dough and finished crust.

Peter

[CDNpielover]

OK I've attached some pics.  In the photos of the doughball, the background is a sheet of white printer paper.  The first one was with a flash, and the second one without a flash.

The second two shots are of the cooked pizza.  The last couple of times I made this pie, the rim was a bit too dry and crunchy for my liking, probablly because I cooked it a bit too hot or long.  This time around I tried to make the rim smaller, which I did except in a couple of spots where large air bubbles had formed (I think these air bubbles arise from pre-existing pockets of air in the dough).  However, I cooked this one at a lower temperature and the rim was actually quite nice - moist and chewy - and in retrospect I wish I had made the rim larger as I did the previous two times.

Pete, yes I would like to try increasing the amount of molasses even more.  I don't mind if the dough is a bit darker...  in fact, I kind of like the dark color.

I didn't get any

[Jet_deck]

  However, I cooked this one at a lower temperature and the rim was actually quite nice - moist and chewy - and in retrospect I wish I had made the rim larger as I did the previous two times.

CDNpielover--

Just from the pictures, I can promise you that this is 100x better than any MM pizza available in the states.  If you could finish the top just a bit more ( only my preference ) it would be 1000x better.

[norma427]

Norma,

If you are up to it, I think it would we worth trying the Grandma's Original Molasses with the MM#7 formulation since the Grandma's Original Molasses is available virtually everywhere at the retail level. Also, I compared the data on the Homemaid Molasses and the Grandma's Original Molasses and they do seem fairly close.

FYI, today I managed to find a bottle of the Plantation Barbados Molasses, which I believe to be a Fancy, or first boil molasses. You can see the Nutrition Facts at http://www.alliedoldenglish.com/plantation.php?flavor=barbados. It appears to my tastebuds to be close to the Grandma's Original Molasses in terms of sweetness but the Grandma's Original Molasses seems to me to have more of a bite--with a bit more of a tangy flavor.

Having looked at all of the specs and Nutrition Facts available to us, and pending what we might get in the way of specs from B&G Foods (and maybe from Allied Old English on the Plantation Barbados Molasses), I would tentatively rank order the different molasses products we have been examining in terms of sweetness as follows:

Steen's 100% Pure Cane Syrup
Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses
Homemaid Molasses
Grandma's Original Molasses
Grandma's Robust Molasses
Plantation Barbados Molasses
Brer Rabbit Mild Flavor Molasses
Brer Rabbit Full Flavor Molasses

I am not sure at this point where the Crosby's Fancy Molasses fits in the above listing. Its ranking awaits the results of CDNpielover's next experiment with that product. But, what the above listing does say is that as you go down the list, the amounts of sugars decline and the intensity of flavor increases. Also, the color of the molasses product gets darker as one goes down the list. If MM is intentionally trying to achieve noticeable sweetness in its finished crust while retaining a modest color in the dough, then I tend to think that it plays around with the top of the above list rather than the lower part of the list looking for that desirable balance between sweetness and color. I have intentionally not included any 100% blackstrap molasses products in the above list, for two reasons. First, MM would not be using such a product by itself (although it might conceivably blend some with another molasses or pure cane juice/syrup, like Golden Molasses does) and, second, it has little sugars. But blackstrap molasses would have the maximum flavor. It would also be the most healthful with the most nutritional value.

Peter

Peter,

I am up to trying the Grandma’s Original Molasses with the MM#7 formulation.  Interesting since you compared the data on the Homemaid Molasses and the Grandma’s Original Molasses they do seem fairly close.  It will be interesting to see what the color of the dough is using the Grandma‘s Original Molasses.  Guess it is time to get Bob out again.

Glad to hear you found a bottle of the Plantation Barbados Molasses to try. 

Good to see a list of different molasses products listed in order of sweetness from the specs you looked at.

You posted that the listings do say that as you go down the list, the amounts of sugars decline and the intensity of the flavor increases.  I find that interesting because the Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses has a much more tangy taste but is up there in sweetness.  I guess that is because the blackstrap molasses is added. 

Norma

[norma427]

CDNpielover,

Great looking attempt at a MM clone! 

Norma

[Pete-zza]

You posted that the listings do say that as you go down the list, the amounts of sugars decline and the intensity of the flavor increases.  I find that interesting because the Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses has a much more tangy taste but is up there in sweetness.  I guess that is because the blackstrap molasses is added. 

Norma,

That is correct. The sweetness comes from the cane syrup and the flavor comes from the blackstrap molasses.

Peter

[Pete-zza]

CDNpielover,

I agree with the others on the high quality and caliber of your most recent pizza. In fact, you have gotten up to speed very quickly. I think you could actually sell the pizzas you have been making.

The photos, if they accurately reflect the actual colors, seem to suggest that you can take more Crosby Fancy Molasses in your MM clone dough without excessively darkening the dough and finished crust. Unfortunately, whenever the amount of molasses is materially changed, the formulation has to be completely redone to keep the numbers in balance. It is like being a custom tailor. It is also one of the reasons why I have created over 30 versions of MM clone dough formulations, with no two being alike. That shows you the damage that can be done by a simple product like molasses that comes in so many different forms. In your case, I think you should consider yourself fortunate. It looks like the Crosby Fancy Molasses is one of the better ones.

As for the cheese issue that Gene raised, if you look at the photos of pizzas at a typical MM website, even though the photos are professionally staged photos that most often are at odds with what the pizzas actually look like in a real MM setting, the cheese on the pizzas is quite light. See, for example, the photos shown at the Durham, NC MM website at http://www.mellowmushroom.com/durham#/store/menu/durham/pizza (the photos are the same at all of the MM websites). In my experiments, I have tried to mimic that look, and over time have actually come to prefer it because the cheese melts in a way as to retain its "pull" and "stretch" when you pull a slice away from the rest of the pizza. It is like the photo of the House Pizza shown at the Durham MM website. Most recently, I have been using the Precious brand of low-moisture part-skim mozzarella cheese since it is one of the few non-house brands at the supermarket where I buy my cheeses, and it has exhibited the pull and stretch qualities mentioned above.

Peter

[Pete-zza]

Pete, yes I would like to try increasing the amount of molasses even more.  I don't mind if the dough is a bit darker...  in fact, I kind of like the dark color.

CDNpielover,

I increased the amount of Crosby Fancy Molasses by two percent, to 17%, to see how that works out and how it affects dough/crust color and the sweetness of the crust. I also made a slight adjustment to the formula water. Using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, this is what the latest MM clone dough formulation looks like:

Modified Test MM Clone Dough Formulation Using Crosby Fancy Molasses and Robin Hood Best for Bread Flour for 14" Pizza (CFM3)

Robin Hood Best for Bread Flour (100%): Spring Water (51.3%): IDY (0.70%): Salt (1.50%): Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (2.6%): Crosby Fancy Molasses (17%): Total (173.1%):

315.85 g  |  11.14 oz | 0.7 lbs 162.03 g  |  5.72 oz | 0.36 lbs 2.21 g | 0.08 oz | 0 lbs | 0.73 tsp | 0.24 tbsp 4.74 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.85 tsp | 0.28 tbsp 8.21 g | 0.29 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.81 tsp | 0.6 tbsp 53.69 g | 1.89 oz | 0.12 lbs | 8.05 tsp | 2.70 tbsp 546.73 g | 19.28 oz | 1.21 lbs | TF = N/A

Note: Dough is for a single 14" pizza (dough weight = 19 ounces); bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

Peter

[CDNpielover]

Thanks a lot, Peter!  I will use that next time and report back with the results!   

[norma427]

I mixed two experimental MM clone doughs this evening, using the MM#7 formulation for both of them.  The one MM clone dough was mixed with KASL and the Grandma’s Original Molasses.  When compared to Bob that dough ball (before the cornmeal was applied) did look almost like Bob.  

The other MM clone dough I am trying was mixed with the Homemaid Molasses and ADM Gigantic Flour.  I wanted to see if the texture of the rim changes or how the final pizza turns from last week when using a bromated flour.  I am always trying to understand how really different bromated flours are from unbromated flours. When comparing that dough ball (before the cornmeal was applied to the dough ball) to Bob, it looked a little closer to the color of Bob.  Of course Bob has been though a lot of abuse and also had some cornmeal on him when the real Bob sent him to me.  The MM clone dough didn't feel any different when using the ADM Gigantic flour and the mix time was the same.

I am also making another dough ball tomorrow for my NY? thread in parallel with something like the second MM clone dough, but I am switching the ADM Gigantic flour I had used in that experiment to KASL this week to also see if a nonbromated flour makes any different in that pizza.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

I was curious whether the Crosby's Fancy Molasses that CDNpielover has been using is sold in the U.S. I had seen signs that at one time Amazon apparently carried the product but that no longer seems to be the case. So, I called Crosby's in Canada and spoke to one of their customer service reps. She told me that the Crosby's Fancy Molasses is available in the U.S. from two sources, The first is Hannaford, a regional chain of supermarkets in the northeast part of the U.S. The second is via an online source called East Coast Catalogue. That is a company that ships products from Canada, including the Crosby's molasses, into the U.S.

I did a quick check and, indeed, Hannaford does carry the Crosby's molasses (http://www.hannaford.com/catalog/search.cmd?keyword=crosby's%20molasses) as does East Coast Catalogue (https://www.eastcoastcatalogue.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=287). However, the East Coast Catalogue shipping charges are high, and maybe too high for most of our members and especially those who are far removed from Canada.

I also asked the Crosby's rep whether a molasses product called Grandma (without the apostrophe s) was one of their products. What prompted my question was a photo that I saw at http://nomadicrkitekt.blogspot.com/2011/11/authenticity-vs-nostalgia.html where a container of Grandma molasses (melasse) is shown next to a container of Crosby's Fancy Molasses. The label on the container of Grandma molasses shows the face of a lady, just as the label of the Grandma's molasses (with the apostrophe s) in the U.S. shows an image of a lady, for example, as shown at http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/27535_109077409118340_5758_n.jpg. As it turns out, the Grandma molasses is a Crosby's product but it has no relationship to the Grandma's molasses in the U.S. And there is no licensing or other relationship with the U.S. Grandma's.

Peter

[CDNpielover]

great work, Peter!  If it would be useful for you to get your hands on some Crosby's Fancy Molasses (?), let me know and we can probably arrange something.  I just don't know how easy it is to ship foodstuffs internationally and through customs.

[Pete-zza]

If it would be useful for you to get your hands on some Crosby's Fancy Molasses (?), let me know and we can probably arrange something.  I just don't know how easy it is to ship foodstuffs internationally and through customs.

CDNpielover,

Thank you very much for the kind offer. However, I have a friend who lives near one of the Hannaford supermarkets in Massachusetts and I may have him check out the Crosby's molasses to be sure that it is the Crosby's Fancy Molasses (Gold Star). If it is, I can ask him to ship me a bottle. As a result of this thread, I have become a certified molassologist that I should be able to assess and diagnose the product in all of its manifestations .

Peter

[FLJohnson]

I have been lurking on this thread for a few months now and have tried a few of the dough recipes in the thread. I'm pretty much a novice at making pizza dough, so this thread has been eye-opening.

I must quickly say that the dough recipes are coming out well in my hands, but I have never gotten one to be able to be worked like the MM videos. I am guessing that it has something to do with the way I'm handling the dough ball after it is prepared that is my problem. Here's what I've been doing. I mix the ingredients either with a table knife until it balls up or with short bursts of a food processor (plastic blade). I knead the dough for about 5 minutes by hand. Tweaking the hydration up occasionally to make the dough a little easier to ball. I use cold water in the preparation of the dough and the dough goes into the refrigerator starting at about 50-55°F in a plastic sealed storage container slightly oiled. I bring it out of the refrigerator about 20 hours later and let it warm at room temperature. The dough can be pressed out to about 8 inches (for a 14" skin) and then I start to stretch it on my hands. The dough typically does not extend very easily and it tends to contract back. It is not easy to stretch to the full diameter and tends to thin in some areas before others.

For the record, I'm pretty much following the recipes posted on this thread by Norma and Pete although I've been using small amounts of black strap molasses 2.5 baker's %, since that's what's on my shelf at the moment, and 10% sugar. Effective hydration has ranged from 57.8% to 60%

Can anyone tell from this what I might be doing wrong to get the Mellow Mushroom easily stretched dough?

[Pete-zza]

Fred,

Would it be possible for you to post the entire dough formulation you used? I'd like to calculate the amount of water in your dough as a percentage of the total dough ball weight. Based on the hydration bake tests that we have conducted to date, it should be pretty close to 40%. I'd also like to calculate the "adjusted" hydration that takes the water content of the blackstrap molasses into account and also to calculate the "effective" hydration that also takes the oil into account. Can you tell me what brand of blackstrap molasses you have been using? I know the amount is small but I'd like to take all of the numbers into account.

Pending your reply, I'd like to make a few comments and observations on MM doughs in general. Real MM doughs use high-gluten flour, or so we have been told by MM, both in published reports and officially by MM customer service reps. A typical rated absorption value for high-gluten flour is around 63%. Our work to date points to a formula hydration for the MM clones doughs of around 51%, and we believe that the corresponding value for a real MM dough is in the same ballpark. That 51% number goes up when the water content of the molasses is taken into account. Also, the wetting effect of the oil effectively increases that value by around 2.6% (in the most recent MM clone doughs we have been making). With values like these, the MM clone doughs are likely to be quite elastic, even when the dough has undergone a reasonable amount of fermentation (cold fermentation in your case) or the dough has been defrosted the proper amount of time and also given a good amount of time to temper at room temperature before using.

It is also important to keep in mind that the MM clone dough balls that we make with home mixers, whether a stand mixer or a bread maker or a food processor (in your case and mine), are likely not to be of the same robust quality as produced by MM in its commissary using commercial mixers, dividers and rounders. I know that some of the videos we have seen show what appears to be more extensibility in the doughs than some of those we have made at home. However, I tend to view such videos with some suspicion because I don't know how the dough balls were prepped to go before the camera. The videos I am most likely to believe are the ones showing dough balls being opened at an MM store in a live, unrehearsed, spontaneous setting, such as the videos that Norma took when she visited the Washington, DC MM location.

Norma might also want to offer commentary on her experience with the MM clone doughs. She has been using high-gluten flour, whereas I have been using King Arthur bread flour supplemented by vital wheat gluten in order to get the protein content for the blend to around 14-14.2% (and sometimes around 13.5%). Of course, we may not have been getting everything right. What has complicated matters, and the calculations as well, is not knowing what MM is using for molasses. That can change the numbers in a way to suggest that MM is using a higher hydration than we now believe. But what I feel quite certain about, based on our hydration bake tests, is that the total water content is around 40%. So, unless MM is using some extraordinary form of molasses, or doing something that they have been concealing to date, the formula hydration is not likely to go much higher than around 51%.

Peter