Author Topic: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?  (Read 216835 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1350 on: February 08, 2012, 02:27:56 PM »
Yes, I did inform you that Paulette told me that the Homemaid Molasses was the lightest molasses Domino sells.  I donít understand what you mean by: ďhowever that doesnít mean that Domino does not use another molasses?Ē  Do you mean another molasses might be in the Homemaid molasses, or did you mean the specs might suggest that Domino might be using pure cane syrup as a base?

Norma,

If you look at the lower numbers in the range of values of the sugars in the specs for the Homemaid Molasses, you will see Sucrose at 29% and Invert at 29%. But, the total sugars are given as 65% (which is the same number given on the last page of the specs). That is a gap of 65-29-29 = 7%. I would like to know what that 7% comprises. It may well be that Paulette does not know the answer and is looking into it. What I was wondering is whether the 29% Sucrose and 29% Invert is pure cane syrup/juice and the 7% is a molasses like a first or second boil molasses. Remember that the Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses comprises 90% cane juice and 10% blackstrap molasses. Maybe Domino is using the same approach. For the sake of comparison, the specs for the Crosby Fancy molasses that CDNpielover is using give the Sucrose as 33%, Invert at 30%, and total sugars of 65%, for a gap of 2%. I never thought to ask the Crosby lab employee I spoke with what that 2% was. I noticed it only after playing around with the Homemaid Molasses specs.

I am just trying to understand what the numbers mean so that I can learn how to work with them in the calculations I perform.

Peter


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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1351 on: February 08, 2012, 03:12:44 PM »
Norma,

If you look at the lower numbers in the range of values of the sugars in the specs for the Homemaid Molasses, you will see Sucrose at 29% and Invert at 29%. But, the total sugars are given as 65% (which is the same number given on the last page of the specs). That is a gap of 65-29-29 = 7%. I would like to know what that 7% comprises. It may well be that Paulette does not know the answer and is looking into it. What I was wondering is whether the 29% Sucrose and 29% Invert is pure cane syrup/juice and the 7% is a molasses like a first or second boil molasses. Remember that the Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses comprises 90% cane juice and 10% blackstrap molasses. Maybe Domino is using the same approach. For the sake of comparison, the specs for the Crosby Fancy molasses that CDNpielover is using give the Sucrose as 33%, Invert at 30%, and total sugars of 65%, for a gap of 2%. I never thought to ask the Crosby lab employee I spoke with what that 2% was. I noticed it only after playing around with the Homemaid Molasses specs.

I am just trying to understand what the numbers mean so that I can learn how to work with them in the calculations I perform.

Peter

Peter,

I can now understand since you explained to me what you want to know from Paulette.  When I email the pictures and tell Paulette about my recent experiment I will also ask Paulette if she knows what the 7% comprises.  I will word it in different way though.  Paulette already knows I canít do the type of calculations or understand what goes into those calculations like you do.

Norma
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 03:15:25 PM by norma427 »

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1352 on: February 08, 2012, 06:14:17 PM »
Paulette from Domino sent me a sample bottle of the Millhouse Molasses.  I donít think the Millhouse Molasses is what MM uses, because the sucrose equivalency numbers are lower, but I thought I would post a picture of the Millhouse molasses in the bottle.  I guess Paulette thought I needed a bigger bottle to experiment with because the bottle she sent me the sample of is bigger than the bottle of the Homemaid Molasses. I smeared samples of the Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses, the Homemaid Molasses, and the Millhouse Molasses on a sheet of white paper just for comparison sake.  The Millhouse Molasses almost tastes like the Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses and is almost the same color.

Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1353 on: February 08, 2012, 06:56:17 PM »
Peter,

This is part of my email to Paulette and what I asked.  I donít know if I asked the right questions in the right ways, but this is what Paulette answered also.  If there is anything else you want me to ask Paulette in my reply to her email, let me know.

What I asked:

I have one other question to ask you if you have time or can explain something about the Homemaid Molasses product to me.

When I looked at the specs you gave me for the Homemaid Molasses if I look at the lower numbers in the range of values I see Sucrose at 29% and Invert at 29%, but the total sugars are given as 65% (which is the same number given on the last page of the specs) I see there is a gap of 7%. I would like to know if you know what the 7% comprises. What I am really am wondering is whether the 29% Sucrose and 29 % Invert is pure cane syrup/juice and the 7% is a molasses like a first or second boil molasses? Maybe you canít give me an answer for that question, but just wondered if some pure cane syrup/juice is added to the Homemaid Molasses.

What Paulette replied:

You are misinterpreting the specification ranges. You cannot take the lower end or upper end of each monosaccharide and add them and then compare them to the total sugars; this is true with any product we provide. For example if you have 67% total sugars you can have 37% sucrose and 30% invert or 34/33 or 30/37; the same holds true for the top end of the total sugars (75%).

I canít make heads or tails or what Paulette replied.

Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1354 on: February 08, 2012, 07:49:38 PM »
What Paulette replied:

You are misinterpreting the specification ranges. You cannot take the lower end or upper end of each monosaccharide and add them and then compare them to the total sugars; this is true with any product we provide. For example if you have 67% total sugars you can have 37% sucrose and 30% invert or 34/33 or 30/37; the same holds true for the top end of the total sugars (75%).

I canít make heads or tails or what Paulette replied.

Norma,

I understand what she is saying. She is saying that you can't use the numbers on an up and down basis like you described. You have to use the numbers from left to right. And since the ranges are quite wide (because the product varies from different suppliers, as earlier reported), there is no way to know the specific Sucrose and Invert numbers for any given lot of molasses. The amounts of Sucrose and Invert will vary from lot to lot (hence the different number combinations Paulette mentioned). What that means is that the specs for Sucrose and Invert cannot be used to do sucrose equivalency calculations. This is not fatal. It only means that you have to try different amounts of the product until you get what you are looking for. I was hoping to be able to get more precise numbers by using a mathematical approach. In our case, we know that around 11.5% Homemaid Molasses works reasonably well. To zero in on a better value, you would have to tweak the percent for the Homemaid Molasses.

The number that I will focus on for my future work is the total sugars, which for the Homemaid Molasses is 65 grams per 100-gram sample.

Thanks for getting the answer to my question. That helps clear things up for me.

Peter

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1355 on: February 08, 2012, 08:56:21 PM »
Norma,

I understand what she is saying. She is saying that you can't use the numbers on an up and down basis like you described. You have to use the numbers from left to right. And since the ranges are quite wide (because the product varies from different suppliers, as earlier reported), there is no way to know the specific Sucrose and Invert numbers for any given lot of molasses. The amounts of Sucrose and Invert will vary from lot to lot (hence the different number combinations Paulette mentioned). What that means is that the specs for Sucrose and Invert cannot be used to do sucrose equivalency calculations. This is not fatal. It only means that you have to try different amounts of the product until you get what you are looking for. I was hoping to be able to get more precise numbers by using a mathematical approach. In our case, we know that around 11.5% Homemaid Molasses works reasonably well. To zero in on a better value, you would have to tweak the percent for the Homemaid Molasses.

The number that I will focus on for my future work is the total sugars, which for the Homemaid Molasses is 65 grams per 100-gram sample.

Thanks for getting the answer to my question. That helps clear things up for me.

Peter

Peter,

I knew you would understand what Paulette was saying.  Thanks for explaining to me in simple language what Paulette said means that the specs for Sucrose and Invert cannot be used to do sucrose equivalency calculations.  I knew you would be hoping to be able to get more precise numbers for sucrose equivalency by using a mathematical approach.  I know that the amounts of Sucrose and Invert will vary from lot to lot, probably because of some of the different suppliers. 

I am glad that we found out that 11.5% Homemaid Mollasess worked well in the MM#7 formulation. 

Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1356 on: February 10, 2012, 07:20:09 PM »
I had sent Glenda at Steenís an email asking for the specs for the 100% Steenís Cane Syrup and the Steenís Dark Molasses.  Glenda mailed me the specs for both products. 

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1357 on: February 10, 2012, 07:20:54 PM »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1358 on: February 10, 2012, 07:21:37 PM »
Norma


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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1359 on: February 10, 2012, 08:12:07 PM »
Norma,

Thank you very much for posting the Steen's specs. When I have a chance, I am going to compare the specs for the various products for which we have the specs. However, I note that Steen's describes both of its products (the 100% Pure Cane Syrup and the Dark Molasses) as having a golden color. I know that the Steen's 100% Pure Cane Syrup can be used in large amounts before the dough starts to turn brown, so one might properly characterize the 100% Pure Cane Syrup as having a golden color at that point, even though in the bottle the 100% Pure Cane Syrup looks dark like a molasses. I would imagine that one would have to use less of the Steen's Dark Molasses to reach the same color in the dough as with the 100% Pure Cane Syrup. I have not seen the Steen's Dark Molasses in the supermarkets near me, only the 100% Pure Cane Syrup.

It might be interesting sometime to see if specs are available for the retail level molasses products, such as those sold by Grandma's and Brer Rabbit. That would complete the picture more fully.

Peter

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1360 on: February 10, 2012, 09:47:52 PM »
Norma,

Thank you very much for posting the Steen's specs. When I have a chance, I am going to compare the specs for the various products for which we have the specs. However, I note that Steen's describes both of its products (the 100% Pure Cane Syrup and the Dark Molasses) as having a golden color. I know that the Steen's 100% Pure Cane Syrup can be used in large amounts before the dough starts to turn brown, so one might properly characterize the 100% Pure Cane Syrup as having a golden color at that point, even though in the bottle the 100% Pure Cane Syrup looks dark like a molasses. I would imagine that one would have to use less of the Steen's Dark Molasses to reach the same color in the dough as with the 100% Pure Cane Syrup. I have not seen the Steen's Dark Molasses in the supermarkets near me, only the 100% Pure Cane Syrup.

It might be interesting sometime to see if specs are available for the retail level molasses products, such as those sold by Grandma's and Brer Rabbit. That would complete the picture more fully.

Peter

Peter,

Although I donít understand the specs that well, I also noted both specs describes both products as a golden color.  I know you posted before the Steenís 100% Pure Cane Syrup can be use in large amounts.  I would imagine that one would have to use less of the Steenís Dark Molasses to reach the same color in the dough as when using the 100% Pure Cane Syrup.  I havenít seen the Steenís 100% Pure Cane Syrup or the Steenís Dark Molasses in any supermarkets near me.  I havenít looked in all the supermarkets or called them either. 

I wonder how we could get the specs for the Grandmaís and Brer Rabbit molasses to compete the picture more fully.  I could call them about the specs, but donít know where to start.  I will have to think how to go about that.

Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1361 on: February 11, 2012, 09:39:00 AM »
Norma,

Last night, I tried sending an email to the parent company (B&G Foods) of Grandma's and Brer Rabbit molasses products but the email aborted. However, I found an 888 number and plan to call them early next week. I believe I have or can locate the basic Nutrition Facts for those products but it would be interesting, and maybe helpful, to see more detailed specs.

As I see it, there will always be three problems or barriers for member who want to try to replicate and clone an MM dough/pizza. First, there is the issue of selection. Members will have to select from the types of molasses products readily available to them. In most cases, that means retail level molasses products like the Grandma's Original or Robust molasses or the Brer Rabbit Full Flavor or Mild Flavor molasses or maybe a Barbados Plantation molasses. They won't have products like the Homemaid Molasses that are available only to professionals on a large scale basis. Second, there is the issue of color. Unless the members have a sample of a real MM dough, or a proxy in the form of a paint or carpet patch (and I honestly don't see people running to their local big box hardware stores), they won't know how much of the molasses product they have on hand to use to achieve the color of a real MM dough. Third, there is the issue of sweetness. Members won't know how much of the molasses products they have on hand to use in order to achieve noticeable sweetness in the finished crust. Even at MM stores they don't get sweetness consistently, or some have it and others do not.

The only true solution to the above problems is knowing and being able to procure the exact same molasses product that MM uses, and then doing some modest amount (we hope) of experimentation. Most people do not have the desire or ability to do experimentation with all of the variables noted above. You, and I, and Steve, and Biz, and Gene and maybe a few others might have the stomach for such an endeavor, and to do some research and experimentation, but few else will. And they will not want to read or scan through 1361 posts (and counting) spread over 69 pages (and counting) to find an MM clone dough formulation to try. Moreover, they may also need to know how to use the expanded dough calculating tool to come up with a version that meets their specific needs.

The reality is that most people who come to the forum are looking for a single silver bullet recipe laid out in black and white that gets the job done. Right now, the best we can offer is several MM clone dough formulations that we believe come reasonably close even though some of them, such as those calling for honey or dark brown sugar, or turbinado/raw cane sugar (as well as molasses), do not meet the specific MM criteria. Maybe in due course, after comparing the specs of the various molasses products, we might be able to give rough percentages of the amounts of those product to use. As an example, if the Homemaid molasses you used and liked is similar to the Grandma's Original molasses, as Paulette at Domino indicated, then the Grandma's Original molasses might be used in the same amount as you used with the Homemaid Molasses an the MM#7 formulation. My thinking at the moment is that if B&G Foods can send me specs on their molasses products I might be able to confirm whether the Homemaid Molasses is indeed similar to the Grandma's Original molasses or maybe one of the Brer Rabbit molasses products.

Peter




« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 03:41:20 PM by Pete-zza »

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1362 on: February 11, 2012, 11:25:42 AM »
Norma,

Last night, I tried sending an email to the parent company (B&G Foods) of Grandma's and Brer Rabbit molasses products but the email aborted. However, I found an 888 number and plan to call them early next week. I believe I have or can locate the basic Nutrition Facts for those products but it would be interesting, and maybe helpful, to see more detailed specs.

As I see it, there will always be three problems or barriers for member who want to try to replicate and clone an MM dough/pizza. First, there is the issue of selection. Members will have to select from the types of molasses products readily available to them. In most cases, that means retail level molasses products like the Grandma's Original or Robust molasses or the Brer Rabbit Full Flavor molasses or maybe a Barbados Plantation molasses. They won't have products like the Homemaid Molasses that are available only to professionals on a large scale basis. Second, there is the issue of color. Unless the members have a sample of a real MM dough, or a proxy in the form of a paint or carpet patch (and I honestly don't see people running to their local big box hardware stores), they won't know how much of the molasses product they have on hand to use to achieve the color of a real MM dough. Third, there is the issue of sweetness. Members won't know how much of the molasses products they have on hand to use in order to achieve noticeable sweetness in the finished crust. Even at MM stores they don't get sweetness consistently, or some have it and others do not.

The only true solution to the above problems is knowing and being able to procure the exact same molasses product that MM uses, and then doing some modest amount (we hope) of experimentation. Most people do not have the desire or ability to do experimentation with all of the variables noted above. You, and I, and Steve, and Biz, and Gene and maybe a few others might have the stomach for such an endeavor, and to do some research and experimentation, but few else will. And they will not want to read or scan through 1361 posts (and counting) spread over 69 pages (and counting) to find an MM clone dough formulation to try. Moreover, they may also need to know how to use the expanded dough calculating tool to come up with a version that meets their specific needs.

The reality is that most people who come to the forum are looking for a single silver bullet recipe laid out in black and white that gets the job done. Right now, the best we can offer is several MM clone dough formulations that we believe come reasonably close even though some of them, such as those calling for honey or dark brown sugar, or turbinado/raw cane sugar (as well as molasses), do not meet the specific MM criteria. Maybe in due course, after comparing the specs of the various molasses products, we might be able to give rough percentages of the amounts of those product to use. As an example, if the Homemaid molasses you used and liked is similar to the Grandma's Original molasses, as Paulette at Domino indicated, then the Grandma's Original molasses might be used in the same amount as you used with the Homemaid Molasses an the MM#7 formulation. My thinking at the moment is that if B&G Foods can send me specs on their molasses products I might be able to confirm whether the Homemaid Molasses is indeed similar to the Grandma's Original molasses or maybe one of the Brer Rabbit molasses products.

Peter



Peter,

Last evening after I posted I wrote a message on B&G Foods contact page at http://www.bgfoods.com/about/contact.asp after I couldnít find much information.  I really didnít search a lot for a phone number. I basically said in my message that I was pizza operator that was experimenting with using either Grandmaís Original Molasses or Brer Rabbit Mild Flavored Molasses in a pizza dough and wasnít getting the results I wanted, so I requested the specs for both products.  I donít think that is the right approach, but tried it anyway.  Maybe you will be more successful since you found B&G Foods 888 number.

I also see problems or barriers for a members or guests that might want to try a clone MM dough.  To produce a real MM dough we would need to know the exact molasses MM uses, which I doubt we will ever find out.  Of course, there are many good formulations here for members or guests to try.  I know most members or guests donít want to read though all these pages and posts to find what formulation might work for them depending on what kind of molasses product they have access to.  I know the reality is most people that come to the forum are looking for a single sliver bullet recipe laid out in black and white that gets the job done.  I believe in letting people work a little for their dinner.  There are many clone dough formulations for different types of pizza on this forum and many people come to the forum and try the clone dough formulations and never even report how they worked for them.  Even a pizza operator could read this thread and in short time know about how to make a decent MM clone.

Do you want me to try an experiment on the Grandmaís Original Molasses with the MM#7 formulation to see if it was anything like when I used the Homemaid Molasses in the formulation, or should I just let that go for now?

Norma
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 11:28:44 AM by norma427 »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1363 on: February 11, 2012, 07:09:44 PM »
Do you want me to try an experiment on the Grandmaís Original Molasses with the MM#7 formulation to see if it was anything like when I used the Homemaid Molasses in the formulation, or should I just let that go for now?

Norma,

If you are up to it, I think it would we worth trying the Grandma's Original Molasses with the MM#7 formulation since the Grandma's Original Molasses is available virtually everywhere at the retail level. Also, I compared the data on the Homemaid Molasses and the Grandma's Original Molasses and they do seem fairly close.

FYI, today I managed to find a bottle of the Plantation Barbados Molasses, which I believe to be a Fancy, or first boil molasses. You can see the Nutrition Facts at http://www.alliedoldenglish.com/plantation.php?flavor=barbados. It appears to my tastebuds to be close to the Grandma's Original Molasses in terms of sweetness but the Grandma's Original Molasses seems to me to have more of a bite--with a bit more of a tangy flavor.

Having looked at all of the specs and Nutrition Facts available to us, and pending what we might get in the way of specs from B&G Foods (and maybe from Allied Old English on the Plantation Barbados Molasses), I would tentatively rank order the different molasses products we have been examining in terms of sweetness as follows:

Steen's 100% Pure Cane Syrup
Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses
Homemaid Molasses
Grandma's Original Molasses
Grandma's Robust Molasses
Plantation Barbados Molasses
Brer Rabbit Mild Flavor Molasses
Brer Rabbit Full Flavor Molasses

I am not sure at this point where the Crosby's Fancy Molasses fits in the above listing. Its ranking awaits the results of CDNpielover's next experiment with that product. But, what the above listing does say is that as you go down the list, the amounts of sugars decline and the intensity of flavor increases. Also, the color of the molasses product gets darker as one goes down the list. If MM is intentionally trying to achieve noticeable sweetness in its finished crust while retaining a modest color in the dough, then I tend to think that it plays around with the top of the above list rather than the lower part of the list looking for that desirable balance between sweetness and color. I have intentionally not included any 100% blackstrap molasses products in the above list, for two reasons. First, MM would not be using such a product by itself (although it might conceivably blend some with another molasses or pure cane juice/syrup, like Golden Molasses does) and, second, it has little sugars. But blackstrap molasses would have the maximum flavor. It would also be the most healthful with the most nutritional value.

Peter

EDIT (9/13/14): For  the archived version of the alliedoldenglish item referenced above, see http://web.archive.org/web/20120219185745/http://www.alliedoldenglish.com/plantation.php?flavor=barbados

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1364 on: February 11, 2012, 09:13:37 PM »
I made another pie tonight using Pete's latest formulation for Crosby's Fancy Molasses.  It turned out great - my best MM pie so far.  I preheated at 475 and cooked for about 11 minutes, moving the pie from the stone (bottm rack) to an upper rack after about 8 minutes.  This temperature worked great for me and I had very little darkening of the bottom.  The rim was also a lot moister and chewier than the last couple of times.

We did notice some sweetness in the crust this time, so I think it helped to increase the amount of Crosby's Fancy Molasses.  The dough didn't seem any darker to me than previously.  I do have a pic that I'll post when I get to it, if someone is really interested it would probably give me some incentive to do it quicker, so let me know!

It will probably be a couple of weeks before I make a MM pie again, since I've really been craving a Chicago thin lately and I only make pizza once a week.   :chef: :pizza:

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1365 on: February 11, 2012, 09:54:38 PM »
CDNpielover,

Since I have been trying to figure out where the Crosby Fancy Molasses fits within the spectrum of molasses products, I would appreciate seeing the photo of your latest MM clone pizza. I'd also be interested in knowing whether you would like to increase the amount of the Crosby molasses to get even more sweetness, even if that might mean a slightly darker dough and finished crust.

Peter

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1366 on: February 11, 2012, 11:40:05 PM »
OK I've attached some pics.  In the photos of the doughball, the background is a sheet of white printer paper.  The first one was with a flash, and the second one without a flash.

The second two shots are of the cooked pizza.  The last couple of times I made this pie, the rim was a bit too dry and crunchy for my liking, probablly because I cooked it a bit too hot or long.  This time around I tried to make the rim smaller, which I did except in a couple of spots where large air bubbles had formed (I think these air bubbles arise from pre-existing pockets of air in the dough).  However, I cooked this one at a lower temperature and the rim was actually quite nice - moist and chewy - and in retrospect I wish I had made the rim larger as I did the previous two times.

Pete, yes I would like to try increasing the amount of molasses even more.  I don't mind if the dough is a bit darker...  in fact, I kind of like the dark color.

I didn't get any


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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1367 on: February 11, 2012, 11:49:00 PM »
  However, I cooked this one at a lower temperature and the rim was actually quite nice - moist and chewy - and in retrospect I wish I had made the rim larger as I did the previous two times.


CDNpielover--

Just from the pictures, I can promise you that this is 100x better than any MM pizza available in the states.  If you could finish the top just a bit more ( only my preference ) it would be 1000x better. :chef:
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1368 on: February 12, 2012, 09:03:44 AM »
Norma,

If you are up to it, I think it would we worth trying the Grandma's Original Molasses with the MM#7 formulation since the Grandma's Original Molasses is available virtually everywhere at the retail level. Also, I compared the data on the Homemaid Molasses and the Grandma's Original Molasses and they do seem fairly close.

FYI, today I managed to find a bottle of the Plantation Barbados Molasses, which I believe to be a Fancy, or first boil molasses. You can see the Nutrition Facts at http://www.alliedoldenglish.com/plantation.php?flavor=barbados. It appears to my tastebuds to be close to the Grandma's Original Molasses in terms of sweetness but the Grandma's Original Molasses seems to me to have more of a bite--with a bit more of a tangy flavor.

Having looked at all of the specs and Nutrition Facts available to us, and pending what we might get in the way of specs from B&G Foods (and maybe from Allied Old English on the Plantation Barbados Molasses), I would tentatively rank order the different molasses products we have been examining in terms of sweetness as follows:

Steen's 100% Pure Cane Syrup
Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses
Homemaid Molasses
Grandma's Original Molasses
Grandma's Robust Molasses
Plantation Barbados Molasses
Brer Rabbit Mild Flavor Molasses
Brer Rabbit Full Flavor Molasses

I am not sure at this point where the Crosby's Fancy Molasses fits in the above listing. Its ranking awaits the results of CDNpielover's next experiment with that product. But, what the above listing does say is that as you go down the list, the amounts of sugars decline and the intensity of flavor increases. Also, the color of the molasses product gets darker as one goes down the list. If MM is intentionally trying to achieve noticeable sweetness in its finished crust while retaining a modest color in the dough, then I tend to think that it plays around with the top of the above list rather than the lower part of the list looking for that desirable balance between sweetness and color. I have intentionally not included any 100% blackstrap molasses products in the above list, for two reasons. First, MM would not be using such a product by itself (although it might conceivably blend some with another molasses or pure cane juice/syrup, like Golden Molasses does) and, second, it has little sugars. But blackstrap molasses would have the maximum flavor. It would also be the most healthful with the most nutritional value.

Peter

Peter,

I am up to trying the Grandmaís Original Molasses with the MM#7 formulation.  Interesting since you compared the data on the Homemaid Molasses and the Grandmaís Original Molasses they do seem fairly close.  It will be interesting to see what the color of the dough is using the GrandmaĎs Original Molasses.  Guess it is time to get Bob out again.

Glad to hear you found a bottle of the Plantation Barbados Molasses to try. 

Good to see a list of different molasses products listed in order of sweetness from the specs you looked at.

You posted that the listings do say that as you go down the list, the amounts of sugars decline and the intensity of the flavor increases.  I find that interesting because the Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses has a much more tangy taste but is up there in sweetness.  I guess that is because the blackstrap molasses is added. 

Norma

Online norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1369 on: February 12, 2012, 09:05:33 AM »
CDNpielover,

Great looking attempt at a MM clone!  :)

Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1370 on: February 12, 2012, 09:23:25 AM »
You posted that the listings do say that as you go down the list, the amounts of sugars decline and the intensity of the flavor increases.  I find that interesting because the Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses has a much more tangy taste but is up there in sweetness.  I guess that is because the blackstrap molasses is added. 

Norma,

That is correct. The sweetness comes from the cane syrup and the flavor comes from the blackstrap molasses.

Peter

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1371 on: February 12, 2012, 10:07:16 AM »
CDNpielover,

I agree with the others on the high quality and caliber of your most recent pizza. In fact, you have gotten up to speed very quickly. I think you could actually sell the pizzas you have been making.

The photos, if they accurately reflect the actual colors, seem to suggest that you can take more Crosby Fancy Molasses in your MM clone dough without excessively darkening the dough and finished crust. Unfortunately, whenever the amount of molasses is materially changed, the formulation has to be completely redone to keep the numbers in balance. It is like being a custom tailor. It is also one of the reasons why I have created over 30 versions of MM clone dough formulations, with no two being alike. That shows you the damage that can be done by a simple product like molasses that comes in so many different forms. In your case, I think you should consider yourself fortunate. It looks like the Crosby Fancy Molasses is one of the better ones.

As for the cheese issue that Gene raised, if you look at the photos of pizzas at a typical MM website, even though the photos are professionally staged photos that most often are at odds with what the pizzas actually look like in a real MM setting, the cheese on the pizzas is quite light. See, for example, the photos shown at the Durham, NC MM website at http://www.mellowmushroom.com/durham#/store/menu/durham/pizza (the photos are the same at all of the MM websites). In my experiments, I have tried to mimic that look, and over time have actually come to prefer it because the cheese melts in a way as to retain its "pull" and "stretch" when you pull a slice away from the rest of the pizza. It is like the photo of the House Pizza shown at the Durham MM website. Most recently, I have been using the Precious brand of low-moisture part-skim mozzarella cheese since it is one of the few non-house brands at the supermarket where I buy my cheeses, and it has exhibited the pull and stretch qualities mentioned above.

Peter

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1372 on: February 12, 2012, 06:16:53 PM »
Pete, yes I would like to try increasing the amount of molasses even more.  I don't mind if the dough is a bit darker...  in fact, I kind of like the dark color.

CDNpielover,

I increased the amount of Crosby Fancy Molasses by two percent, to 17%, to see how that works out and how it affects dough/crust color and the sweetness of the crust. I also made a slight adjustment to the formula water. Using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, this is what the latest MM clone dough formulation looks like:

Modified Test MM Clone Dough Formulation Using Crosby Fancy Molasses and Robin Hood Best for Bread Flour for 14" Pizza (CFM3)
Robin Hood Best for Bread Flour (100%):
Spring Water (51.3%):
IDY (0.70%):
Salt (1.50%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (2.6%):
Crosby Fancy Molasses (17%):
Total (173.1%):
315.85 g  |  11.14 oz | 0.7 lbs
162.03 g  |  5.72 oz | 0.36 lbs
2.21 g | 0.08 oz | 0 lbs | 0.73 tsp | 0.24 tbsp
4.74 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.85 tsp | 0.28 tbsp
8.21 g | 0.29 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.81 tsp | 0.6 tbsp
53.69 g | 1.89 oz | 0.12 lbs | 8.05 tsp | 2.70 tbsp
546.73 g | 19.28 oz | 1.21 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: Dough is for a single 14" pizza (dough weight = 19 ounces); bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

Peter
« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 06:18:37 PM by Pete-zza »

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1373 on: February 12, 2012, 07:35:12 PM »
Thanks a lot, Peter!  I will use that next time and report back with the results!   :chef:

Online norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #1374 on: February 12, 2012, 08:30:02 PM »
I mixed two experimental MM clone doughs this evening, using the MM#7 formulation for both of them.  The one MM clone dough was mixed with KASL and the Grandmaís Original Molasses.  When compared to Bob that dough ball (before the cornmeal was applied) did look almost like Bob.  

The other MM clone dough I am trying was mixed with the Homemaid Molasses and ADM Gigantic Flour.  I wanted to see if the texture of the rim changes or how the final pizza turns from last week when using a bromated flour.  I am always trying to understand how really different bromated flours are from unbromated flours. When comparing that dough ball (before the cornmeal was applied to the dough ball) to Bob, it looked a little closer to the color of Bob.  Of course Bob has been though a lot of abuse and also had some cornmeal on him when the real Bob sent him to me.  The MM clone dough didn't feel any different when using the ADM Gigantic flour and the mix time was the same.

I am also making another dough ball tomorrow for my NY? thread in parallel with something like the second MM clone dough, but I am switching the ADM Gigantic flour I had used in that experiment to KASL this week to also see if a nonbromated flour makes any different in that pizza.

Norma
« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 08:39:38 PM by norma427 »