Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

The last cost number I saw for pizza dough at the PMQ Think Tank, earlier this year, was $0.02/ounce. Back in 2007, it was around $0.01-0.0125/ounce. Those numbers are for a pretty standard pizza dough.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

The last cost number I saw for pizza dough at the PMQ Think Tank, earlier this year, was $0.02/ounce. Back in 2007, it was around $0.01-0.125/ounce. Those numbers are for a pretty standard pizza dough.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for letting me know the numbers you gave were pretty standard for a pizza dough.  I know the price of flour has risen a lot since I started to make pizzas (2009), and I even get the flour for my preferment Lehmann dough (KASL) at distributors cost. 

Norma

[norma427]

I mixed the dough for the two dough balls using the MM#3 ADM 65 DMP Dough Clone Formulation and the MM#4 Brer Rabbit/Wildflower Dough Clone Formulation Peter set-forth, this morning.

I mixed the MM#3 ADM 65 DMP Dough Clone Formulation first because I wanted to see what color the dough would get with using the ADM 65 DMP product.  I mixed the ADM 65 DMP in with the formula water and also mixed the raw sugar in with the formula water.  I knew when I mixed them together the color was darker than when using the Brer Rabbit in the formula water.  I decided to continue, just to see what color the dough ball would turn out to be.  The dough did turn out darker than when I just used the Brer Rabbit molasses, but it looked okay.  It can be seen on the pictures below, what color the mixture (water, sugar or honey, and molasses) were in both formulas.

Both formulas did mix well, and both doughs felt about the same when finished mixing them.  For the MM#3 ADM 65 DMP Dough Clone Formulation the final dough temperature was 78.3 degrees F, and for the MM#4 Brer Rabbit/Wildflower Dough Clone Formulation the final dough temperature was 78.6 degrees F.

The dough for both formulas were formed into a ball and then coated with toasted corn meal, then taken to my freezer to be frozen. 

This is also a picture of the raw sugar I used.  The raw sugar probably came from Dutch Valley.  I also practiced a little this morning with my Throw Dough.  I became a little better at throwing the fake skin, but not much better.  Might have to practice more later.

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

I made and froze another MM clone dough ball today that was the same as the last one I made but for the fact that I increased the amount of toasted wheat germ (Kretschmer’s brand) from 3% of the total flour blend to 10%. The wheat germ was first ground to a flour-like consistency before adding it to the flour blend. The rest of the flour blend was KABF and Hodgson Mill vital wheat gluten, and the rest of the ingredients were spring water, Brer Rabbit liquid molasses, Imperial turbinado (raw sugar cane), salt, IDY, and soybean oil. The only difference between the two dough formulations was the amount of wheat germ. Both dough balls weighed the same and had the same finished dough temperature.

As I was making the flour blend, I compared it against a sample of only the KABF and VWG and could not detect a noticeable difference in color. I also compared the flour blend with KABF alone and, again, I could not detect a noticeable difference. After making the dough in my Cuisinart food processor, I compared it against a brown coffee filter and, again, I did not detect a difference in color. I also compared the finished dough ball against the last one I made with the smaller amount of wheat germ and they both looked alike to me. I did not detect the presence of the ground wheat germ in the finished dough. The increased amount of wheat germ did not seem to affect the hydration of the flour blend. All of these comparison tests seem to suggest that the main contributor to dough and crust color is the molasses and possibly the turbinado sugar.

In a way, I was kind of hoping for a dramatic difference in color of the latest dough since that would have helped better define the amount of wheat germ that might be used in a real MM dough. Maybe the ultimate taste test will be instructive on this point. I am hoping that I will be disgusted with the taste of the pizza crust made from that dough. That would make life easier for all of us.

Looking at Biz’s recent photos at Reply 269 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg155842.html#msg155842 of the crumb of the MM pizza he had at the Farragut, TN MM unit, I am now inclined to believe that the MM dough is a tad lighter than what we have been making. Of course, the way the pizza is baked can have an effect on the crust coloration because of the caramelization of the sugars and the Maillard reactions but usually those effects will be in the outer crust.

Peter

[Biz Markie]

Looking at Biz’s recent photos at Reply 269 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg155842.html#msg155842 of the crumb of the MM pizza he had at the Farragut, TN MM unit, I am now inclined to believe that the MM dough is a tad lighter than what we have been making. Of course, the way the pizza is baked can have an effect on the crust coloration because of the caramelization of the sugars and the Maillard reactions but usually those effects will be in the outer crust.

Peter

I think you're right, Peter.  That is, I tend to think the coffee filter color is darker than what MM is using.  Actually I was struck at the Farragut store that the skins I watched them prepare appeared quite light.  Even our crust when it came out looked very pale on the outside, but inside it was darker (as in the pictures I posted).

I have a 24-hour ball in the fridge for tonight that is using 5% molasses, 1.75% salt, 2% Germ, and 3% oil.  Wanting to see if I can recreate that first attempt's sweetness.  I still have a chunk of the actual MM crust from my Farragut visit, but it's a few days old now and probably not worth anything other than color comparison.  I will take pics for sure.

[norma427]

Norma,

I made and froze another MM clone dough ball today that was the same as the last one I made but for the fact that I increased the amount of toasted wheat germ (Kretschmer’s brand) from 3% of the total flour blend to 10%. The wheat germ was first ground to a flour-like consistency before adding it to the flour blend. The rest of the flour blend was KABF and Hodgson Mill vital wheat gluten, and the rest of the ingredients were spring water, Brer Rabbit liquid molasses, Imperial turbinado (raw sugar cane), salt, IDY, and soybean oil. The only difference between the two dough formulations was the amount of wheat germ. Both dough balls weighed the same and had the same finished dough temperature.

As I was making the flour blend, I compared it against a sample of only the KABF and VWG and could not detect a noticeable difference in color. I also compared the flour blend with KABF alone and, again, I could not detect a noticeable difference. After making the dough in my Cuisinart food processor, I compared it against a brown coffee filter and, again, I did not detect a difference in color. I also compared the finished dough ball against the last one I made with the smaller amount of wheat germ and they both looked alike to me. I did not detect the presence of the ground wheat germ in the finished dough. The increased amount of wheat germ did not seem to affect the hydration of the flour blend. All of these comparison tests seem to suggest that the main contributor to dough and crust color is the molasses and possibly the turbinado sugar.

In a way, I was kind of hoping for a dramatic difference in color of the latest dough since that would have helped better define the amount of wheat germ that might be used in a real MM dough. Maybe the ultimate taste test will be instructive on this point. I am hoping that I will be disgusted with the taste of the pizza crust made from that dough. That would make life easier for all of us.

Looking at Biz’s recent photos at Reply 269 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg155842.html#msg155842 of the crumb of the MM pizza he had at the Farragut, TN MM unit, I am now inclined to believe that the MM dough is a tad lighter than what we have been making. Of course, the way the pizza is baked can have an effect on the crust coloration because of the caramelization of the sugars and the Maillard reactions but usually those effects will be in the outer crust.

Peter

Peter,

Your new experiment with the increased amounts of toasted wheat germ, and now added Imperial turbinado  (raw sugar) were interesting that you found that the added toasted wheat germ didn’t affect the hydration, and the color of the dough stayed the same.  It will be interesting when you bake your MM clone attempt to see if you notice any difference in the crust taste or color.  At least there should be some sweetness in the crust from the added turbinado (raw sugar).  It makes me wonder just how much, or what kind of molasses, is needed to get the right crust color.  I did do a little test where I just dissolved my raw sugar in water to see what color the water would be, since the raw sugar is darker than white refined sugar.  Even with the small amount of raw sugar I added to water, the mixture became light tan.  It also makes me wonder after looking at Biz’s picture of the crumb if my doughs are light enough.  I know the dough I made today with the ADM 65 DMP will be way too dark.

Norma

[norma427]

I have a 24-hour ball in the fridge for tonight that is using 5% molasses, 1.75% salt, 2% Germ, and 3% oil.  Wanting to see if I can recreate that first attempt's sweetness.  I still have a chunk of the actual MM crust from my Farragut visit, but it's a few days old now and probably not worth anything other than color comparison.  I will take pics for sure.

Biz,

Will be interested in seeing if your attempt tonight will recreate more sweetness in the crust. 

Best of luck!

Norma

[Biz Markie]

The pie turned out excellent tonight.  The dough handled about the same as last week, maybe a little more extensible. 

The flavor was great.  My best MM attempt to date.  Still not quite as sweet as my memory of the Franklin MM pie, but pretty close. 

I will wait til tomorrow to compare the crumb coloration to that of the Farragut MM crust remnant.  The lighting here at night is just not good for pictures.
At first glance my crust actually seemed perhaps a bit lighter and more yellowish than the MM, but I definitely will reserve judgment until tomorrow.

If my crust is indeed lighter, that's actually a good thing because I could theoretically add a bit more molasses.

[norma427]

I am trying to search about MM’s operations past and present to see if I can learn more information about MM’s different stores, finding the brand of cheese they use, or other facts about them. These are a few things I found out so far.

2001 Marc Weinstein about tofu at Mellow Mushroom
http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/stories/2001/01/15/focus1.html?page=6
Weinstein cited the restaurant’s healthy ingredients including part-skim mozzarella and whole wheat dough, as he reason for Readers’ Choice Award.
http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/stories/2001/01/15/focus1.html?page=7

2008 MM returns to Spring St. roots.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/02/21/idUS179249+21-Feb-2008+BW20080221
http://www.ajc.com/services/content/business/stories/2008/09/18/atlanta_mellow_mushroom.html

2007
Mellow Mushroom fails to get slice of market, bails out.
http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/stories/2007/06/04/tidbits1.html?b=1180929600%25255E1470503    From five stores to three stores to none--Mellow Mushroom exited the Charlotte market.  Tom Lockhart and his wife, Dawn, will now run three pizza restaurants they planned to rename Moon Dog Pizza.

2009
Prior to joining Stevi B’s, Matthew Loney served as vice president and general counsel for Mellow Mushroom. Loney was also an attorney serving clients operating in the franchise industry.
http://www.pizzamarketplace.com/article/98385/Q-A-with-Stevi-B-s-president-Matthew-Loney
http://www.ajc.com/business/stevi-bs-tries-to-134422.html
http://www.24-7pressrelease.com/press-release/stevi-bs-names-matt-loney-president-85698.php

Joseph Allen White, did creative projects for MM Pizza Bakers Corp.
http://www.josephallenwhite.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53&Itemid=58

2009
70’s Child Mellow Mushroom Grows Up, But still Hip.
http://telecommunications.tmcnet.com/news/2009/07/06/4258648.htm

It seems like Mellow Mushroom heard some moaning and groaning from some of their franchisees to go to a cheaper mozzarella in 2001.  Brasch said they use a higher grade of cheese.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/stories/2001/08/06/story2.html?page=2

In the same article it says that Papa John’s formed a subsidiary to buy cheese at the source for its 2,700 restaurants.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/stories/2001/08/06/story2.html

I don’t think these searches will help to learn more about MM’s dough process, but will see where it takes me. 

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

I found the statement by Marc Weinstein of MM on the use of "whole wheat dough" of interest. I believe that that is the first time that I have seen reference by someone who works/worked for MM that the dough was a "whole wheat dough". It could have been a simple, casual misstatement or misunderstanding of the actual facts, which does sometimes happen even with insiders who perhaps should be more careful. It is pretty clear that whole wheat flour made from hard red spring wheat would not have been used at MM to make its pizza dough, as anyone who has ever worked with regular whole wheat flour and has seen the MM videos would tell you. It is also not a type of flour that would attract or appeal to most people and certainly not most kids I know and, hence, would be too difficult to promote and market.

However, back in 2001, and apparently even before, a new form of whole wheat called "white" whole wheat did exist. See, for example, the article at http://www.wholegrainscouncil.org/whole-grains-101/whole-white-wheat-faq. It has been so long ago that I last tried the white whole wheat flour that I don't recall much about that flour to be able to say whether that flour is one that MM might have used. It seems to me that the white whole wheat flour started to gain traction in the past several years, at least at the retail level. It should also be noted that the white whole wheat flour seems to have a protein content that is lower than what one might normally characterize as a high-gluten flour. For example, the King Arthur brand has a protein content of 13% (although a range of 12.5-14% is given at http://www.kingarthurflour.com/professional/specifications-conventional-bakery-flour.html). General Mills has a version that is 12.5% protein. You will also note that the King Arthur brand of white whole wheat flour has a rated absorption value of around 70%.

On the matter of the mozzarella cheese, the only reference I could find as to a possible brand (Saputo) was discussed earlier in this thread at Reply 3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg151292.html#msg151292. However, since the MM stores seem to be given a lot of flexibility in running their businesses, it is possible that the different MM stores procure their cheese from several possible sources, subject to approval of MM corporate offices of course. As a commodity that is subject to wide swings in price, you would want to give the franchisees some flexibility in sourcing their mozzarella cheeses at the store level.

Peter

[norma427]

Peter,

I wondered when Marc Winstein of MM mentioned “whole wheat dough” what he really meant by that, or if that was a misstatement.  I know regular whole wheat flour for pizza wouldn’t be appealing for many customers.  Thanks for referencing the article about whole white wheat flours.  I really never knew about whole white wheat flours, but did see the ultragrain (Conagra Mills flour) that I had purchased, but never used.  I had mentioned trying that flour in a post before in this thread.  I see Sunnyland Mills did sell white-wheat bulgur in the U.S. since 1935.  King Arthur brand of white whole wheat flour absorption value of around 70% is a lot.  I don’t know how we are ever going to know if MM’s uses regular high gluten flour or might use whole white wheat flours.

This is how the dough balls looked like when they were taken to market today frozen.  As can be seen on the pictures, the one container did have condensation, and the condensation dripped on the dough ball.  That is the darker of my two dough balls.

Norma

[norma427]

Both pizzas today turned out well today.  The pizza made with the MM#4 Brer Rabbit/Wildflower Honey Dough Clone Formulation was made first.  The dough handled well, but wasn’t as strong as last weeks dough.  I could toss it and twirl it though.  This pizza I needed to add some screens, so the bottom of the crust wouldn’t burn.  What Steve, my taste testers and I thought was really odd, was there wasn’t any more sweetness in the crust than any of the other MM’s attempted pies, even when honey was added.  I don’t know if this is something like some of the Reinhart doughs, that even if honey is added there isn’t any noticeable sweetness in the crust.

The second pizza made was the MM#3 ADM 65 DMP Dough Clone formulation with raw sugar really turned out well.  The crust was so moist and we all thought the pizza was great.  There even was a nice crunch to the rim of the crust.  This pizza did have a little more sweetness in the crust, but it was enjoyable.  I am glad I didn’t disregard the ADM DMP and not try it.  This was an excellent formula for a very different pizza.  Steve, my taste testers and I all thought this was one of my better pies, and I have tried a lot of formulas.

I still can’t toss the dough too well, but Steve did take videos of my trying to toss and twirl both doughs.  The last two pictures are of the slices side by side from both formulas.  I did edit both videos, so I don’t know how long it takes for them to change.  Customers kept thinking these pizzas were whole wheat flour pizzas and they were very interested in them.  The one customer we gave a sample to came back and want to purchase more, but we told her we wanted to save at least two slices for Steve and me to take home.  I was very excited about this different pizza! 

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KTrbetUE3s" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KTrbetUE3s</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG__DDvjk80" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG__DDvjk80</a>

Norma

[norma427]

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[norma427]

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[norma427]

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[norma427]

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[norma427]

These are pictures of the MM#3 ADM 65 DMP Dough Clone Formulation with raw sugar.

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Norma