Author Topic: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?  (Read 131833 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #540 on: October 27, 2011, 07:27:59 AM »
Norma,

That appears to be a product offered in Canada. There is even a separate website at http://www.grandmamolasses.com/index.php?id=3. Note that in Canada the product is sold under the Grandma brand name without the apostrophe "s". In the U.S., it is with the apostrophe "s".

I have not seen spec sheets for the U.S. Grandma's molasses products to be able to do a comparison, but it may well be that the Grandma Canadian molasses product is a Fancy product.

Peter


Peter,

I had researched some more, and also found out the same thing, as I now am going to post.  I won't rewrite what I already said.

Edit:  I think Grandmaís ďFancyĒ molasses is only sold in Canada.  http://www.grandmamolasses.com/index.php?id=3

It also seem like there is a  Grandmaís 4 Star Unsulphured Molasses.  The Grandmaís 4 Star can be purchased from Sysco in Florida. http://syscosef.com/promos/grandmas.pdf  or at a website such as this one.  http://mybrands.com/Product.aspx?pid=4172

I used the contact page at http://www.bgfoods.com/about/contact.asp and asked if the Grandmaís four star molasses product is sweeter than the Grandmaís Original Molasses product, since I really canít find out much information about the Grandmaís four star product.

I will wait and see if they respond.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #541 on: October 27, 2011, 10:46:48 AM »
I donít know if the Steenís Pure and Natural Light Molasses is a sweeter molasses, but it is expensive.
http://www.steensyrup.com/molasses.html
The Barbados Unslphured Molasses might be a sweeter molasses. http://www.alliedoldenglish.com/plantation.php
I did contact both of them to ask if they could tell me how sweet their molasses is.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #542 on: October 27, 2011, 04:43:19 PM »
John Johansen, from Malt Products http://www.maltproducts.com/products.molasses.html called me a little while ago, and we talked about liquid molasses products.  John said their liquid molasses product #732 probably would be the best product to try in a MMís pizza attempt.  He did say that the Liquid molasses #732 is a sweeter molasses than can be bought at the retail level.  I told him about what percent of molasses, (retail level GrandmaĎs Original and Brer Rabbit Mild Flavored) I was using in my tests to get the results I wanted.  He said that is a high percent of molasses to put in pizza dough.  I told John I did have to add brown sugar or other refined sugars to get enough sweetness in the crusts of my test pizzas, along with the molasses. John thought the Malt products #715 would give the dough too dark of a color.  John said he would send the sample of liquid molasses product #732 out to me soon.  He asked me if I wanted a pint or quart of the liquid molasses sample and I said a pint would be fine for testing.  John also said he would also send me the sweetness data sheet or other data sheets.

Norma
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 11:34:14 AM by norma427 »
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Offline briterian

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #543 on: October 27, 2011, 08:16:04 PM »
Just made Norma's latest (brown sugar/molasses) and backed off on yeast to .325 vs. .6 since I was doing a next day cold ferment rather than freeze/thaw model.  Turned out nice but yeast didnt have near the imapct and resulted in little crust cornicorn.  Next time I plan to move up to .5ish.  Kids liked it said it tasted like mellow mushroom ...and my wife totally agreed.   I baked it 7 min at 525.   Next time maybe 9 min
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 09:05:45 PM by briterian »

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #544 on: October 27, 2011, 09:21:49 PM »
Just made Norma's latest (brown sugar/molasses) and backed off on yeast to .325 vs. .6 since I was doing a next day cold ferment rather than freeze/thaw model.  Turned out nice but yeast didnt have near the imapct and resulted in little crust cornicorn.  Next time I plan to move up to .5ish.  Kids liked it said it tasted like mellow mushroom ...and my wife totally agreed.   I baked it 7 min at 525.   Next time maybe 9 min

Brian,

Great to hear your children and wife thought your MMís clone did taste like a MMís pizza!  :) How was your crumb texture?  Was it more in line with a real MMís crumb?  My crust coloration isnít right yet either.  I canít figure out why it doesnít get browner.  Did you use Grandmaís Original Molasses?  Sorry to be asking all the questions, but did your dough look like it fermented okay in the next day ferment?  

Sounds like you did a great job on your first attempt.  :chef:

Norma
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Offline briterian

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #545 on: October 27, 2011, 09:50:34 PM »
Hi Norma
I used gma's robust vs orig since that is what I had. That has a tad bit less sugar.  I have one more dough in fridge that I will let warm up on counter next time for as long as it takes to see a bit of lift. I'll be more patient.  A two hour warmup wasnt enough   The crumb was real close and kept some internal moistness and after we let it sit and cool for 20 min and rewarmed on my lodge pizza pan on stovetop it was even closer and brought out more sweetness.   I'll take pics next time. 

Offline Biz Markie

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #546 on: October 27, 2011, 10:13:26 PM »
Peter,

Do you have any reason to suspect that the MM rep would be less than 100% truthful/accurate in the info she was giving you?
I would assume that she is being above board, but when I attempted to contact their corporate office weeks ago, I got nowhere in terms of nutritional info.  I sent an email and the reply was simply that they are working on having data/info available and they could not tell me anything at this time.

Just throwing it out there to get your opinion.  It sounds like she was believable, but at the same time, what we're doing here isn't exactly Classified. ...just sayin!  :-D

P.S. Not sure what I'm gonna do next, especially if we go with the assumption that MM uses ONLY molasses.  I would have to try another brand, I guess, because from my direct color comparisons of cooked doughs, 5% Brer Rabbit and KASL produce a crust with basically identical color to MM.  Possible I could squeeze more Brer Rabbit in there before the naked eye could detect a difference, but I doubt that increase would manifest in sweetness.

Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #547 on: October 27, 2011, 11:16:32 PM »
Hi Norma
I used gma's robust vs orig since that is what I had. That has a tad bit less sugar.  I have one more dough in fridge that I will let warm up on counter next time for as long as it takes to see a bit of lift. I'll be more patient.  A two hour warmup wasnt enough   The crumb was real close and kept some internal moistness and after we let it sit and cool for 20 min and rewarmed on my lodge pizza pan on stovetop it was even closer and brought out more sweetness.   I'll take pics next time. 

Brian,

Glad to hear Grandmaís robust molasses did work out in your MMís pizza.  Good also to hear that your crumb was really close and kept some of the moistness in the rim. 

It will be interesting to hear how your other dough ball turns out when it is made into a pizza.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #548 on: October 28, 2011, 10:27:53 AM »
I donít know if the Steenís Pure and Natural Light Molasses is a sweeter molasses, but it is expensive.
http://www.steensyrup.com/molasses.html
The Barbados Unslphured Molasses might be a sweeter molasses. http://www.alliedoldenglish.com/plantation.php
I did contact both of them to ask if they could tell me how sweet their molasses is.


Norma,

I have seen the Steen's cane syrup product on supermarket shelves over the years but not the molasses products. The Barbados molasses product seems to be somewhat of a generic designation for a first boil molasses product, as earlier mentioned. But, both of those products appear to be retail level products and might be options for our members as alternatives to the Grandma's and Brer Rabbit products. But they are likelier to be harder to find than the Grandma and Brer Rabbit products and may entail some shipping costs if ordered online. It will also mean having to do some experimenting with quantities to get the desired degree of dough/crust coloration if that is important to the user. I'll be most interested in what you get back from Steen's on their light colored molasses and whether it is like a Fancy molasses.

It was also interesting to see that John at Malt Products and the gal at Domino Specialty Ingredients selected the same liquid molasses products to try as I did in Reply 354 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg156811.html#msg156811. It's good to know that we are on the same wavelength.

Peter

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #549 on: October 28, 2011, 11:01:00 AM »

Do you have any reason to suspect that the MM rep would be less than 100% truthful/accurate in the info she was giving you?
I would assume that she is being above board, but when I attempted to contact their corporate office weeks ago, I got nowhere in terms of nutritional info.  I sent an email and the reply was simply that they are working on having data/info available and they could not tell me anything at this time.

Just throwing it out there to get your opinion.  It sounds like she was believable, but at the same time, what we're doing here isn't exactly Classified. ...just sayin!  :-D

P.S. Not sure what I'm gonna do next, especially if we go with the assumption that MM uses ONLY molasses.  I would have to try another brand, I guess, because from my direct color comparisons of cooked doughs, 5% Brer Rabbit and KASL produce a crust with basically identical color to MM.  Possible I could squeeze more Brer Rabbit in there before the naked eye could detect a difference, but I doubt that increase would manifest in sweetness.


Biz,

I think the MM rep was being straight with me. It became clear to me, especially after giving her the Cliffs Notes version of how grain is milled into flour, which was an eye opener to her, that she does not have a technical or science background. Her area of competence at the company seems to be to address issues relating to allergies, gluten intolerance and issues that vegans and vegetarians may have with their products. I myself used the allergies lever to extract information from her on the wheat germ. It might have been better to speak with a technical person at the MM commissary but that person would have been unlikely to give me anything of a proprietary nature.

On the matter of your not getting nutrition information from MM, that is quite common. The big pizza chains and some of the smaller ones do make their nutrition data available to the public but it can take some time for the smaller companies, like MM, to catch up. Nutrition Facts are produced using specialized software. The bigger chains, like Papa John's, Pizza Hut, etc., do the Nutrition Facts in-house. Smaller companies often farm the work out. To show you how long it can take companies to create their Nutrition Facts, see Buddy's website at http://www.buddyspizza.com/nutrition.asp and the Sbarro website at http://www.sbarro.com/ourFood/nutrition.php. It's been over a year in both case since those pages were put up on their websites. I can understand that Sbarro might not be in a hurry to complete their Nutrition Facts since they have been in bankruptcy proceedings but Buddy's seems to be doing well and shouldn't have a real excuse.

Peter


Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #550 on: October 28, 2011, 12:02:34 PM »
Norma,

I have seen the Steen's cane syrup product on supermarket shelves over the years but not the molasses products. The Barbados molasses product seems to be somewhat of a generic designation for a first boil molasses product, as earlier mentioned. But, both of those products appear to be retail level products and might be options for our members as alternatives to the Grandma's and Brer Rabbit products. But they are likelier to be harder to find than the Grandma and Brer Rabbit products and may entail some shipping costs if ordered online. It will also mean having to do some experimenting with quantities to get the desired degree of dough/crust coloration if that is important to the user. I'll be most interested in what you get back from Steen's on their light colored molasses and whether it is like a Fancy molasses.

It was also interesting to see that John at Malt Products and the gal at Domino Specialty Ingredients selected the same liquid molasses products to try as I did in Reply 354 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg156811.html#msg156811. It's good to know that we are on the same wavelength.

Peter


Peter,

You were good at selecting the molasses products at Malt products and Domino Specialty Ingredients for a MMís clone attempt.  You chose the same products as the professionals.

I was thinking last evening about other molasses products I might have tried in my lifetime in baking, and I remember when we used to make caramel corn we used to buy corn syrup (a heavier and thicker kind that canít be bought at retail level) at a place called L&S Sweeteners http://lssweeteners.com/  and knew they sold Golden Barrel Molasses products. http://www.goldenbarrel.com/blackstrap-baking-molasses.php I forgot about their Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses, but do remember using that in shoo fly pie, without adding extra sugar, except for the crumb topping.  I could easily call them, because they are only a half an hour away from me in Honey Brook, Pa., or Leola, Pa., http://www.goldenbarrel.com/retail-outlets.php http://www.goldenbarrel.com/index.php
but I chose to just send them an email for now, to see if their Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses might be a ďfancy molassesĒ. They do have a retail store there, so I could easily purchase a jar to try if it is ďfancyĒ molasses. Their molasses products are cheap (1.89), at least in my opinion. We stopped buying corn syrup from L&S Sweeteners,(at their location) because we could buy the same corn syrup (with the same name on the product) cheaper from the Nut market stand beside us at Rootís.  It also was easier than going down to L&S Sweeteners to get the corn syrup, since they are in 50 lb. pails.  I know they have railroad tracks right beside their businesses and probably do ship along the east coast.  I will wait and see if I get a return email from them to see if their molasses is a ďfancyĒ molasses.

Norma
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 12:05:28 PM by norma427 »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #551 on: October 29, 2011, 12:08:48 PM »
I mixed another MMís clone attempt this morning.  The hydration was lowered, I used a much higher percentage of Dominos Homemaid molasses in the formula, and also decreased the oil percentage.  The dough does look something like a real MMís dough ball in color, at least to me.  No sugars were used in this dough.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #552 on: October 29, 2011, 12:09:20 PM »
Norma
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Offline briterian

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #553 on: October 29, 2011, 07:51:30 PM »
I used my 2nd dough ball today and let it sit out around 3-4 hrs this time.  I used Norma's latest recipe (molasses/brown sugar) but decreased the yeast from .6 to .3 under the advisement of Pete since I skipped the freezing step.  I used grandma's robust molasses because that is what I had in stock.  One word: amazing.  i turned out about 95% identical to what we've had numerous times at MM.  I baked it in a 550 oven for 8 minutes and then rotated it 180 degrees and gave it an extra minute because the bottom was looking quite brown.   A keeper for me.   HUGE THANKS to Biz, Pete and Norma for their extreme dedication.  This is a really special community.  Chills

See pics.

Offline briterian

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #554 on: October 29, 2011, 07:56:34 PM »
Two more pics

Offline Biz Markie

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #555 on: October 29, 2011, 08:59:49 PM »
For what it's worth, I thought I'd post the formula for the dough I made today.

I'm a bit limited in my options here.  The only molasses I have access to is Brer Rabbit mild and Grandma's Original and Robust.  And all I have on hand is Brer Rabbit Mild.  

I am also a little bit lost on where exactly we are in this process.  I've seen references to texture/crumb issues lately, but I for one have been very satisfied with the texture of the doughs I've been able to produce.  The only thing that has been lacking is the sweetness.
I know Norma is experimenting with a dizzying array of molasses products and sweeteners, but since I can't reasonably obtain these, I have to go in another direction.
It also sounds like we're saying MM does not use anything other than liquid molasses.  But are we really saying that?  Also no wheat germ.

So with only Brer Rabbit molasses on hand, I had to come up with something.  Since I believe Peter and possibly Norma have tried molasses plus some kind of brown sugar, I thought I'd go that route.

All I have on hand is a store brand organic brown sugar.  It's fairly dark. .not a "light" brown sugar for sure.
  
Oh - I also have run out of KASL.  So I will have to revert to the Pete-zza KABF+VWG method as I used to do in my PJ Clone doughs from days gone by.

So anyway - here's my formula.  This is intended to be a 24-hour cold ferment dough.  I would love any and all feedback and guidance on where to go from here.

Flour/VWG Blend*  100%
Spring Water          54%
IDY                      .60%
Sea Salt              1.75%
Soybean Oil              3%
Molasses                  5%
Dark Brown Sugar      2%
TOTAL                 166.35%
     *Flour blend comprised of 97.9% KABF and 2.1% VWG

« Last Edit: October 29, 2011, 09:04:36 PM by Biz Markie »

Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #556 on: October 29, 2011, 09:00:22 PM »
Brian,

Glad to hear your MMís clone pizza turned out so well!  Your pictures sure do look like a MMís pie.  :) Your rim browning looks like a real MMís pizza. Thanks for posting the pictures.  What do you think you would adjust to give your attempt at a MMís pie the last 5% ?  I only ate at MMís one time, so I havenít tasted real MMís pies many times like you did.  I would like your opinion on if you thought the crust should have been sweeter, or what other observations you  had on your MMís pie.  I know it is hard to get a MMís clone exactly baked like MMís in a home oven or even my deck oven.  It is hard to tell by the colors of different pictures posted, but did you think your MMís clone pizza did come close in color in the rim?  To me in the pictures you posted it does look like the rim looks like a real MMís pie.

Norma
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Offline Biz Markie

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #557 on: October 29, 2011, 09:02:31 PM »
.   HUGE THANKS to Biz, Pete and Norma for their extreme dedication.  This is a really special community.  Chills

Wow, thanks for the props!  This is indeed a great community - totally awesome.

What was your formula % for Molasses and for the brown sugar?  Also, what kind of flour?

Thanks and congrats on a great pizza!  Hoping the formula I just posted, which I'm fermenting in the fridge now, turns out as good as yours.

Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #558 on: October 29, 2011, 09:22:36 PM »
For what it's worth, I thought I'd post the formula for the dough I made today.

I'm a bit limited in my options here.  The only molasses I have access to is Brer Rabbit mild and Grandma's Original and Robust.  And all I have on hand is Brer Rabbit Mild.  

I am also a little bit lost on where exactly we are in this process.  I've seen references to texture/crumb issues lately, but I for one have been very satisfied with the texture of the doughs I've been able to produce.  The only thing that has been lacking is the sweetness.
I know Norma is experimenting with a dizzying array of molasses products and sweeteners, but since I can't reasonably obtain these, I have to go in another direction.
It also sounds like we're saying MM does not use anything other than liquid molasses.  But are we really saying that?  Also no wheat germ.

So with only Brer Rabbit molasses on hand, I had to come up with something.  Since I believe Peter and possibly Norma have tried molasses plus some kind of brown sugar, I thought I'd go that route.

All I have on hand is a store brand organic brown sugar.  It's fairly dark. .not a "light" brown sugar for sure.
  
Oh - I also have run out of KASL.  So I will have to revert to the Pete-zza KABF+VWG method as I used to do in my PJ Clone doughs from days gone by.

So anyway - here's my formula.  This is intended to be a 24-hour cold ferment dough.  I would love any and all feedback and guidance on where to go from here.

Flour/VWG Blend*  100%
Spring Water          54%
IDY                      .60%
Sea Salt              1.75%
Soybean Oil              3%
Molasses                  5%
Dark Brown Sugar      2%
TOTAL                 166.35%
     *Flour blend comprised of 97.9% KABF and 2.1% VWG



Biz,

Your formula looks good to me.  See if Peter also think so. He is the expert here at analyzing formulas. I think with Brian recent experiment different retail molasses products can be used with good results.  He used the Grandmaís Robust molasses.  Your dark brown (organic) sugar should work well with the percent of molasses you use in your formula.  On my last attempt I had used 7% Grandmaís Original molasses in combination with light brown sugar (2%).  I think you should have some sweetness in the crust with your recent formula.

I am glad your texture/crumb is fine.  I donít know if the way I mixed my MMís attempts, or if my deck oven has something to do with my crumb not being right.  That is what I am working on.  I am using commercial molasses products now to see if MMís might be using something like a ďfancyĒ molasses only, without other added sugars.  That is why I am doing the most recent dough ball I made with Dominoís Homemaid molasses.  I know other members probably wonít have access to the kind of molasses products I am trying, but these tests are just to see if enough sweetness in the crust can be obtained without any other sugars.  I was satisfied with my last attempt, except for the crumb structure.

Best of luck with your recent formula!  :)

Norma
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Offline briterian

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #559 on: October 29, 2011, 09:45:44 PM »
Hi Biz
Reply 505 from Norma was the recipe I used.   Next time to get to the last 5% I would increase my yeast from .3 to .5 so I don't need to sit it out so long and I can get a bit more rise and spring.   I use bromated high gluten flour from GFS called primo guisto.   I've been using it for about a year with luck.   My  11 yr old son told me to keep this recipe in my "keeper folder"... Which is Evernote for me.   As far as sweetness .... I found it to be just right.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2011, 08:55:13 AM by briterian »


 

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