Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?

[norma427]

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

I looked at only the photos of the pizza before reading your comments and you could have fooled me that it wasn't the real thing. I am also not surprised that there was more flavor with the Brer Rabbit molasses. I observed the same thing with my first experiment using the Grandma's Full Flavor molasses with less sugar (12 grams) but with more flavor than the Grandma's Original molasses (with 14 grams of sugar). The later boils have less sugar but more flavor, which means having to add more of the supplemental sugar to compensate for the reduced sugar levels in the molasses. Like you, short of there being a type of commercial molasses that can be used alone and produce the desired level of sweetness that you detected with a real MM pizza, I am inclined to believe that there is an added sweetener used in an MM dough besides the molasses. There seems to be a practical limit to the amount of molasses that one can add to a dough from a dough/crust coloration standpoint. If, at that point, the finished crust does not have the desired degree of sweetness, about the only option left is to add an additional sweetener. That can be just about anything so long as it isn't a "refined white sugar".

I have also concluded that the MM clone doughs seem to perform well whether the dough balls are defrosted in the refrigerator for a day or two or at room temperature. I actually prefer the room temperature defrost/ferment since that is more convenient for me in a home setting. This time of year, it only takes about 5-6 hours at room temperature to be able to use a dough ball to make a pizza. Moreover, to date, I can't say that the pizzas made from room-temperature defrosted dough balls have been inferior to those defrosted in the refrigerator. The relatively low hydration of the MM clone dough balls also makes it a breeze to open up a dough ball to make a skin from it. And the skin will handle beautifully, and there is no need to rush to dress the pizza for fear that the skin will stick to the peel. The skin won't stick to anything, even without using cornmeal. As you noted from your recent MM DC visit, skins can be premade and folded without sticking to themselves or each other. In my opinion, these qualities and characteristics make the MM dough balls ideal for use by unskilled workers.

Peter

[Biz Markie]

Norma, that's quite an oven spring on that last pie!  wowza!

I have been uber busy lately so haven't posted as much as I'd like.

I did want to report that I finally got around to trying a molasses and honey blend.  To date it has been the best pizza I think I've made.  It had more sweetness than any other formula I've tried.  Maybe not exactly like MM but really close.

I used 5% Brer Rabbit Mild and 3% honey, and lowered the nominal hydration to 53%.  Still at 3% oil.  I may tinker with lower oil next time as I feel there may be room to make the crust a little chewier.  Not having been to an MM in several weeks, I can't quite remember the mouthfeel that I'm shooting for.  

I am intrigued by the Barley Malt Syrup idea . ... a while ago I think I posted somewhere that I wondered whether this was being used.  I have some on hand and may try it some day.  Probably will wait to see Peter's report.  Man that stuff is a pain to work with!  Super sticky and thick.  

The only other things I can think of that I might play with would be Grandma's brand molasses.  I've also thought about a totally cold dough prep, with 40 degree water, etc.  The times I've tried that, it seems to have produced particularly sweet crusts without any added sugar at all.  This method perhaps does not at all approximate what MM is doing in reality, but I like to mess around.  We'll see.

[norma427]

Norma,

I looked at only the photos of the pizza before reading your comments and you could have fooled me that it wasn't the real thing. I am also not surprised that there was more flavor with the Brer Rabbit molasses. I observed the same thing with my first experiment using the Grandma's Full Flavor molasses with less sugar (12 grams) but with more flavor than the Grandma's Original molasses (with 14 grams of sugar). The later boils have less sugar but more flavor, which means having to add more of the supplemental sugar to compensate for the reduced sugar levels in the molasses. Like you, short of there being a type of commercial molasses that can be used alone and produce the desired level of sweetness that you detected with a real MM pizza, I am inclined to believe that there is an added sweetener used in an MM dough besides the molasses. There seems to be a practical limit to the amount of molasses that one can add to a dough from a dough/crust coloration standpoint. If, at that point, the finished crust does not have the desired degree of sweetness, about the only option left is to add an additional sweetener. That can be just about anything so long as it isn't a "refined white sugar".

I have also concluded that the MM clone doughs seem to perform well whether the dough balls are defrosted in the refrigerator for a day or two or at room temperature. I actually prefer the room temperature defrost/ferment since that is more convenient for me in a home setting. This time of year, it only takes about 5-6 hours at room temperature to be able to use a dough ball to make a pizza. Moreover, to date, I can't say that the pizzas made from room-temperature defrosted dough balls have been inferior to those defrosted in the refrigerator. The relatively low hydration of the MM clone dough balls also makes it a breeze to open up a dough ball to make a skin from it. And the skin will handle beautifully, and there is no need to rush to dress the pizza for fear that the skin will stick to the peel. The skin won't stick to anything, even without using cornmeal. As you noted from your recent MM DC visit, skins can be premade and folded without sticking to themselves or each other. In my opinion, these qualities and characteristics make the MM dough balls ideal for use by unskilled workers.

Peter

Peter,

Good to hear I could have fooled you that my MM attempt wasn’t the real thing, just by posting the pictures.  It is interesting you got about the same results in flavor when using Grandma’s Full Flavored molasses, than with Grandma’s Original molasses.  I can understand why more of some kind of “unrefined sugar” needs to be added for sweetness, but the stronger molasses flavor is more apparent in the Grandma’s Full Flavored molasses.

In this last experiment, I liked how the dough seemed to handle fine with freezing and thawing for more than one day.  I would have thought the dough would have handled different, but that wasn’t the case.  It handled beautifully.  I haven’t tried a MM clone attempt with only defrosting at room temperature, but that could be an option for anyone.  I also told Steve with this type of pizza (with the low hydration) there is no need to worry about the skin tearing or the skin sticking to the peel.  I think Steve is soon going to be trying an experiment with the MM’s clone at home.  I also don’t think any unskilled pizza makers would have trouble with this dough.  Somehow MM must have thought about all this before.

What amazes me about this dough is how nice, light, and moist the crust becomes after the bake.  I really like this kind of pizza now. 

Do you have any ideas of where I should go with my next experiment for a MM clone?  I was satisfied with my results yesterday, but would like to try to find out what MM is really using for a “unrefined sweetener”. 

Norma

[norma427]

Norma, that's quite an oven spring on that last pie!  wowza!

I have been uber busy lately so haven't posted as much as I'd like.

I did want to report that I finally got around to trying a molasses and honey blend.  To date it has been the best pizza I think I've made.  It had more sweetness than any other formula I've tried.  Maybe not exactly like MM but really close.

I used 5% Brer Rabbit Mild and 3% honey, and lowered the nominal hydration to 53%.  Still at 3% oil.  I may tinker with lower oil next time as I feel there may be room to make the crust a little chewier.  Not having been to an MM in several weeks, I can't quite remember the mouthfeel that I'm shooting for.  

I am intrigued by the Barley Malt Syrup idea . ... a while ago I think I posted somewhere that I wondered whether this was being used.  I have some on hand and may try it some day.  Probably will wait to see Peter's report.  Man that stuff is a pain to work with!  Super sticky and thick.  

The only other things I can think of that I might play with would be Grandma's brand molasses.  I've also thought about a totally cold dough prep, with 40 degree water, etc.  The times I've tried that, it seems to have produced particularly sweet crusts without any added sugar at all.  This method perhaps does not at all approximate what MM is doing in reality, but I like to mess around.  We'll see.

Biz,

It is surprising to me how much oven spring can come from a low hydration dough.  The dough feels dry.  Normally for me if my dough feels dry, I don’t get that much oven spring.

Good to hear your recent MM clone attempt with the molasses and honey blend was your best MM attempt so far.   

I can imagine that Barley Malt Syrup would be super sticky.  I never used Barley Malt Syrup before.

Good luck in your next attempt! 

Norma

[norma427]

I don’t know how helpful or accurate this article is, but it does help me understand what different kinds of Liquid Sweeteners are used for baking.  This might not relate at all to what MM might be using, or if they are using something more than molasses, but I just thought I would post the article. http://www.culinate.com/articles/culinate8/liquid_sweetness
It is hard to find out what MM uses to get their pizza crusts sweet.

I know my thought process might be crazy, but I keep thinking why did the soft pretzels we had at MM taste so much different than their pizza crusts, when they both were made out of the same dough.  I still can’t understand that.  If I have time this coming week, I am going to make two MM clone doughs, (or make a larger batch of dough and then divide it) and see what happens with making the pizza crust and trying to make soft pretzels out of the same dough. I might try the soft pretzels at home, because I think I need a lower oven temperature than my deck oven.

In this article by a chef, she says to use malt syrup to make good soft pretzels.
http://www.reluctantgourmet.com/blog/appetizers/soft-pretzels/   I know when I tried to use Auntie Anne’s pretzel mix for a pizza crust, (in my mystery thread) that mix made the pizza crust way too sweet.  I never did try the rest of the Auntie Anne’s leftover dough to make pretzels, so I don’t know if the pretzels would have tasted different.

I don’t know if anyone thinks making soft pretzels will help this thread or not, but maybe I will find out if somehow the same MM clone dough will somehow make a different product in sweetness if baked into pretzels.  At least a soft pretzel experiment will satisfy my own curiosity.   

I sent an email to John Johansen showing him the results of my last attempt with the Malt Product #732 molasses in combination with brown sugar.  I told John, that brown sugar was needed even with the molasses to get the crust sweet enough.  I asked John if he thought barley malt might be a possibility for adding to the molasses to give the crust a sweet taste.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Do you have any ideas of where I should go with my next experiment for a MM clone?  I was satisfied with my results yesterday, but would like to try to find out what MM is really using for a “unrefined sweetener”. 

Norma,

I waited to respond to the above question until I had a chance to make a pizza out of the dough that had both molasses and barley malt syrup. I made that pizza last night. The dough for that pizza had 9% Grandma's Original molasses and 3% Eden barley malt syrup. The results were that I did not find that the barley malt syrup added a noticeable amount of sweetness. Being so dark to begin with, adding more of the barley malt syrup would only make the dough and finished crust considerably darker, unless the amount of molasses is reduced to somehow compensate for the increased amount of barley malt syrup.

To date, I would say that my best results were achieved using 9% Grandma's Original molasses and 4% raw cane sugar (Imperial turbinado). That is with the KABF/VWG.

I think honey may be worth a try, especially since Biz seemed to get good results using the honey. Also, my notes show that a while back I gave you an MM clone formulation calling for 4% molasses (you may have been thinking of using one of the Brer Rabbit molasses products) and 4% honey (I think you were thinking of using the wildflower honey), but I don't recall whether you actually tried that combination and, if so, with what results. As you know, there are over 300 kinds of honey, with different color and taste profiles. However, if MM is using honey, I think it would be a cheap light-colored honey, not a fancy or expensive one, since the objective would be to use a natural sweetener that would make up in sweetness for what the molasses lacks. In such a case, it would be possible to even use more honey than molasses and keep the dough color a golden-brown. The molasses might even be a first or second boil molasses, with its primary purpose being for color and flavor, not sweetness. Molasses has always been a differentiator for MM, from day one, so molasses is there to stay in MM's doughs. I view it as part of MM's marketing, more so than a nutritional or healthful component of its pizzas. They perhaps gave up that notion when they dumped the wheat germ and the Vitamin E enrichment.

Peter

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

I neglected to mention in my last post that there is an open issue with honey in that there are vegans who apparently do not eat products produced by insects. However, I think that that would be a fairly easy issue to answer by simply asking MM whether it uses honey in its dough. I would ask the question but MM already knows who I am. But, someone like Biz, who apparently tries to follow a vegan diet, would have a legitmate interest in knowing whether MM uses honey in its dough.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

I waited to respond to the above question until I had a chance to make a pizza out of the dough that had both molasses and barley malt syrup. I made that pizza last night. The dough for that pizza had 9% Grandma's Original molasses and 3% Eden barley malt syrup. The results were that I did not find that the barley malt syrup added a noticeable amount of sweetness. Being so dark to begin with, adding more of the barley malt syrup would only make the dough and finished crust considerably darker, unless the amount of molasses is reduced to somehow compensate for the increased amount of barley malt syrup.

To date, I would say that my best results were achieved using 9% Grandma's Original molasses and 4% raw cane sugar (Imperial turbinado). That is with the KABF/VWG.

I think honey may be worth a try, especially since Biz seemed to get good results using the honey. Also, my notes show that a while back I gave you an MM clone formulation calling for 4% molasses (you may have been thinking of using one of the Brer Rabbit molasses products) and 4% honey (I think you were thinking of using the wildflower honey), but I don't recall whether you actually tried that combination and, if so, with what results. As you know, there are over 300 kinds of honey, with different color and taste profiles. However, if MM is using honey, I think it would be a cheap light-colored honey, not a fancy or expensive one, since the objective would be to use a natural sweetener that would make up in sweetness for what the molasses lacks. In such a case, it would be possible to even use more honey than molasses and keep the dough color a golden-brown. The molasses might even be a first or second boil molasses, with its primary purpose being for color and flavor, not sweetness. Molasses has always been a differentiator for MM, from day one, so molasses is there to stay in MM's doughs. I view it as part of MM's marketing, more so than a nutritional or healthful component of its pizzas. They perhaps gave up that notion when they dumped the wheat germ and the Vitamin E enrichment.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for doing the test with the molasses and barley malt syrup.  Sorry to hear that you didn’t find that the barley malt syrup added a noticeable amount of sweetness.  After reading more about barley malt syrup, I saw it is less sweet than some other sugars.  (at least regular barley malt syrup).  I did mention that Steve said there are lighter sweeter malt syrups for brewing, but I don’t know how an experiment would turn out with trying something like those malt syrups.

I can’t recall you giving me a formula for using molasses and honey, but I could be wrong.  I have to look back though all my formulas to see if I ever tried a formula with honey and molasses, but I don’t think so.

If you want me to try a formulation out with honey and molasses let me know what you think the formulation should be.  I can try that out this coming week.  I have the light raw unprocessed honey and also the light wildflower honey on hand.  I wouldn’t think 4 % Brer Rabbit molasses would give the dough enough color.  I have been using higher amounts of molasses in my last few experiments.

I didn’t know vegans have a issues with honey, but can understand why now. Maybe Biz can get an answer from MM about if they use honey in their dough, since he tries to follow a vegan diet.  I did try to email MM with some questions, but never got any answers. 

Norma

[Biz Markie]

yep I do follow a vegan diet but as you can tell I do partake of honey.  I don't consider honey an "animal product" though it does come of course from insects, which are in Kingdom Animalia.  Honey is, after all, derived from plants.  But definitely some vegans do not consume honey.

I may give MM a call at some point and pose the question.

But definitely I was very happy with my Brer Rabbit/Honey pizza last week.  The honey I used was a local, mostly clover honey with I think a very mild flavor.  Normally I like a stronger honey, but this was all I had.  It was also jarred with the comb, which I imagine imparts some unique flavor to the honey.  I wish I still had some Savannah Bee Company Tupelo honey. .  now that there's some good Bee Spit!

[Pete-zza]

I can’t recall you giving me a formula for using molasses and honey, but I could be wrong.  I have to look back though all my formulas to see if I ever tried a formula with honey and molasses, but I don’t think so.

Norma,

I posted the dough formulation with the Brer Rabbit molasses and the wildflower honey at Reply 293 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg156036.html#msg156036. You later reported on your results starting at Reply 312 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg156454.html#msg156454.

Since you didn't detect the sweetness level you were looking for with the honey, sometime later today I will post an updated version of the molasses/wildflower dough formulation. I'd like to think a bit more about such a combination and the amounts of molasses and honey that might work this time. In the meantime, can you tell me which molasses product and honey you would like to try?

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

I posted the dough formulation with the Brer Rabbit molasses and the wildflower honey at Reply 293 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg156036.html#msg156036. You later reported on your results starting at Reply 312 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg156454.html#msg156454.

Since you didn't detect the sweetness level you were looking for with the honey, sometime later today I will post an updated version of the molasses/wildflower dough formulation. I'd like to think a bit more about such a combination and the amounts of molasses and honey that might work this time. In the meantime, can you tell me which molasses product and honey you would like to try?

Peter

Peter,

Lol, I even forgot about that formula I tried out of yours with 4% honey and 4% Brer Rabbit molasses.  That is what happens when I try to many experiments at one time. 

I could either use the Brer Rabbit Mild Flavored molasses or the Grandma’s Original molasses.  I have both products at home.  For the honey, I would like to use the raw and unprocessed light honey.  I left that at market Tuesday, but can bring it home tomorrow.

Thanks for saying you would think over a formulation for me to try. 

I did mix another MM attempt using the same formula I had used for Tuesday a little while ago.  I am going to let the dough sit at room temperature to see if it will be ready to make both pretzels and a pizza today.  I have no idea if it will ferment enough.  I am just going to divide the dough in 2 for a small pizza and pretzels. 

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

I have set forth below an MM dough clone formulation that uses the Grandma's Original molasses and the wildflower honey from the man at market. FYI, today I checked out the honey collections at four different stores (two "dollar" stores and two regular supermarkets). I found that the honey products were virtually identical in terms of the Nutrition Facts (e.g., 16-17 grams of sugar for a 21-gram serving), even if the honeys themselves were not identical. I saw honeys that were blends of honeys from the U.S., Canada, Mexico, Uruguay, Brazil and Argentina but I also saw some from India. I would say that most of them looked like clover honey. I purchased a bottle of clover honey from one of the supermarkets. It is a house brand (Fiesta) that also happened to be the cheapest of the honeys I examined. In coming up with the MM clone formulation below and especially to calculate the "adjusted" hydration that compensates for the water in the molasses and the honey, I had to take into account that honey has about 17% water whereas liquid molasses has 22% water. The ultimate objective is to achieve a finished dough that is of the same color as a real MM dough and with the desired degree of sweetness in the finished crust. That can be a rather tall order since both honey and molasses impart color and sweetness to the dough/crust. Different liquid molasses products and different types of honey can require different percents to achieve the benchmark objectives for color and sweetness.

Here is the new MM dough clone formulation:

MM#5 Grandma's Original/Wildflower Honey Dough Clone Formulation

Unbleached High-Gluten Flour (100%): Water (Spring Water) (54%): IDY (0.60%): Morton's Kosher Salt (2%): Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (2%): The Man at Market's Wildflower Honey (5.5%): Grandma's Original Molasses (7.5%): Total (171.6%):

306.37 g  |  10.81 oz | 0.68 lbs 165.44 g  |  5.84 oz | 0.36 lbs 1.84 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.61 tsp | 0.2 tbsp 6.13 g | 0.22 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.28 tsp | 0.43 tbsp 6.13 g | 0.22 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.35 tsp | 0.45 tbsp 16.85 g | 0.59 oz | 0.04 lbs | 2.41 tsp | 0.8 tbsp 22.98 g | 0.81 oz | 0.05 lbs | 3.32 tsp | 1.11 tbsp 525.72 g | 18.54 oz | 1.16 lbs | TF = 0.1204643

Note: Nominal thickness factor = 0.118684; dough is for a single 14" pizza; "adjusted" hydration = 56.6%; "effective" hydration = 58.8%; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

As before, you can adjust the formula hydration up or down a percentage point if you want higher or lower adjusted and effective hydration values.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

I have set forth below an MM dough clone formulation that uses the Grandma's Original molasses and the wildflower honey from the man at market. FYI, today I checked out the honey collections at four different stores (two "dollar" stores and two regular supermarkets). I found that the honey products were virtually identical in terms of the Nutrition Facts (e.g., 16-17 grams of sugar for a 21-gram serving), even if the honeys themselves were not identical. I saw honeys that were blends of honeys from the U.S., Canada, Mexico, Brazil and Argentina but I also saw some from India. I would say that most of them looked like clover honey. I purchased a bottle of clover honey from one of the supermarkets. It is a house brand (Fiesta) that also happened to be the cheapest of the honeys I examined. In coming up with the MM clone formulation below and especially to calculate the "adjusted" hydration that compensates for the water in the molasses and the honey, I had to take into account that honey has about 17% water whereas liquid molasses has 22% water. The ultimate objective is to achieve a finished dough that is of the same color as a real MM dough and with the desired degree of sweetness in the finished crust. That can be a rather tall order since both honey and molasses impart color and sweetness to the dough/crust. Different liquid molasses products and different types of honey can require different percents to achieve the benchmark objectives for color and sweetness.

Here is the new MM dough clone formulation:

MM#5 Grandma's Original/Wildflower Honey Dough Clone Formulation

Unbleached High-Gluten Flour (100%): Water (Spring Water) (54%): IDY (0.60%): Morton's Kosher Salt (2%): Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (2%): The Man at Market's Wildflower Honey (5.5%): Grandma's Original Molasses (7.5%): Total (171.6%):

306.37 g  |  10.81 oz | 0.68 lbs 165.44 g  |  5.84 oz | 0.36 lbs 1.84 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.61 tsp | 0.2 tbsp 6.13 g | 0.22 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.28 tsp | 0.43 tbsp 6.13 g | 0.22 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.35 tsp | 0.45 tbsp 16.85 g | 0.59 oz | 0.04 lbs | 2.41 tsp | 0.8 tbsp 22.98 g | 0.81 oz | 0.05 lbs | 3.32 tsp | 1.11 tbsp 525.72 g | 18.54 oz | 1.16 lbs | TF = 0.1204643

Note: Nominal thickness factor = 0.118684; dough is for a single 14" pizza; "adjusted" hydration = 56.6%; "effective" hydration = 58.8%; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

As before, you can adjust the formula hydration up or down a percentage point if you want higher or lower adjusted and effective hydration values.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for setting-forth a MM dough clone formulation that uses the Grandma’s Original molasses and the wildflower honey from the man at market.  I will mix the formula probably Saturday or Sunday, and try it on Tuesday.  Since I liked the results of freezing the dough, and letting it defrost longer, I am going to do that again.

It is interesting that you checked out the Nutrition Facts and the honeys were virtually identical in the Nutrition Facts in terms of the sugar.  I guess you also are going to try a combination of honey and molasses for another attempt at a MM pizza, since you purchased the Fiesta brand of honey.  My honey doesn’t have any Nutrition Facts on my bottle of honey.  I wonder why different honeys vary so widely in prices.  I looked this past Tuesday at market and my jar of honey was 4.25.

I can understand it was a tall order to get the formula right, since both honey and molasses impart color and sweetness to the dough/crust.   Can you tell me why you decided to up the soybean (vegetable) oil by 1%? 

Norma

[norma427]

If anyone is interested, and has a facebook page, this is where my honey came from.  My honey is called Wampler Honey.  http://www.facebook.com/pages/Wampler-Honey/172460555861
If anyone doesn’t have a face book page, this was something I thought was interesting on Wampler’s that they posted.  Food Safety News:  Tests Show Most Store Honey Isn’t Honey. http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/11/tests-show-most-store-honey-isnt-honey/

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

Yes, I purchased the Fiesta "honey" with the intention of making another MM clone dough with it, along with the Grandma's Original molasses. In fact, I already made the dough and it is now in the freezer. The color of the dough was a little too golden for me so I modified the amounts of honey and molasses for the MM#5 dough formulation I gave you today to achieve a more tan appearance. Of course, that was based on the clover honey I purchased and its particular hue. Your wildflower honey may have a different natural color.

I was quite surprised how expensive honey has become. I saw dinky bottles of honey that were over $3. My Fiesta honey was $4.99 for 24 ounces. I even saw one bottle of what was labeled honey and it had corn syrup in it. There was more of the corn syrup than the honey.

On the matter of the amount of oil, I have been playing around with 1-3% and can't say that I noticed a big difference, although in some cases I was also making other changes, including making adjustments to the amount and form of wheat germ, whose use I have discontinued for now. The 2% oil figure was the one used in the MM#4 recipe. You should feel free to change it to whatever value you would like to use in the new MM#5 dough formulation. The theory on oil was that if there is too much oil in the dough, along with a lot of sweeteners, the finished crust will be softer and more tender rather than somewhat dense and chewy. But the oil is only one factor. One can achieve particular crust characteristics by adjusting bake temperatures and times and even by using a different oven and different stone/oven configurations. Those same factors can also affect final crust coloration. The high sweetener content of the MM doughs accentuates and accelerates the Maillard and caramelization functions.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

Yes, I purchased the Fiesta "honey" with the intention of making another MM clone dough with it, along with the Grandma's Original molasses. In fact, I already made the dough and it is now in the freezer. The color of the dough was a little too golden for me so I modified the amounts of honey and molasses for the MM#5 dough formulation I gave you today to achieve a more tan appearance. Of course, that was based on the clover honey I purchased and its particular hue. Your wildflower honey may have a different natural color.

I was quite surprised how expensive honey has become. I saw dinky bottles of honey that were over $3. My Fiesta honey was $4.99 for 12 ounces. I even saw one bottle of what was labeled honey and it had corn syrup in it. There was more of the corn syrup than the honey.

On the matter of the amount of oil, I have been playing around with 1-3% and can't say that I noticed a big difference, although in some cases I was also making other changes, including making adjustments to the amount and form of wheat germ, whose use I have discontinued for now. The 2% oil figure was the one used in the MM#4 recipe. You should feel free to change it to whatever value you would like to use in the new MM#5 dough formulation. The theory on oil was that if there is too much oil in the dough, along with a lot of sweeteners, the finished crust will be softer and more tender rather than somewhat dense and chewy. But the oil is only one factor. One can achieve particular crust characteristics by adjusting bake temperatures and times and even by using a different oven and different stone/oven configurations. Those same factors can also affect final crust coloration. The high sweetener content of the MM doughs accentuates and accelerates the Maillard and caramelization functions.

Peter

Peter,

I saw at the regular grocery store how expensive honey has become.  My wildflower honey is 1 lb.  I think you saw the problems with honey now.  Hopefully if someone decides to use honey in the MM clone dough, they won’t get a honey with corn syrup in it other honeys that aren’t good.

Thanks for explaining why you didn’t see a big difference in the amount of vegetable/soybean oil (1-3%) that is used in the formulas.  I didn’t know that the high sweetener content of the MM doughs accentuates and accelerates the Maillard and caramelization functions.

Maybe I also will need to adjust the formula to get a tan appearance too.

Norma

[norma427]

The experiment at home went well with the same formula that was used Tuesday.  The dough balls were left to ferment at room temperature for 6 ½ hrs.  The dough ball opened well, and could be tossed and twirled.  The dough was a little more gassy, but that didn’t seem to make any difference, at least to me. The bake in my home oven also went well.  The rim crust had nice oven spring.  There were only two things that I noticed that were different.  Since the dough ball wasn’t frozen, the color of the dough ball and baked rim crust were lighter.  The other thing that was different was the crust was a little sweeter. 

The dressing used on the pizza was “Grub”, and mild white cheddar.  After the bake, Hot Sauce, (made with Texas Pete Buffalo Style Chicken Wing Barbeque Sauce, honey, and melted butter with garlic) was sprinkled over the melted mild white cheddar.  I also cut fresh chives from my garden and sprinkled them over the pie.  The standard butter garlic sauce was also brushed on the rim, then Parmesan cheese was sprinkled on the rim.

Then I used the second dough ball to make the pretzels.  That experiment went okay too.  I made 4 soft pretzels out of the second dough ball.  I decided to try four different ways to dressed the soft pretzels.  One had nothing on, the second had the butter and garlic sauce with Parmesan cheese, the third had melted butter with honey and garlic powder, and the fourth had salt, garlic butter honey mixture with Parmesan cheese .

The pretzels all tasted good.  It is really easy to make soft pretzels with this dough. 

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Norma