Author Topic: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?  (Read 216483 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #650 on: November 10, 2011, 12:56:17 PM »
I canít recall you giving me a formula for using molasses and honey, but I could be wrong.  I have to look back though all my formulas to see if I ever tried a formula with honey and molasses, but I donít think so.

Norma,

I posted the dough formulation with the Brer Rabbit molasses and the wildflower honey at Reply 293 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg156036.html#msg156036. You later reported on your results starting at Reply 312 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg156454.html#msg156454.

Since you didn't detect the sweetness level you were looking for with the honey, sometime later today I will post an updated version of the molasses/wildflower dough formulation. I'd like to think a bit more about such a combination and the amounts of molasses and honey that might work this time. In the meantime, can you tell me which molasses product and honey you would like to try?

Peter


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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #651 on: November 10, 2011, 02:00:07 PM »
Norma,

I posted the dough formulation with the Brer Rabbit molasses and the wildflower honey at Reply 293 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg156036.html#msg156036. You later reported on your results starting at Reply 312 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg156454.html#msg156454.

Since you didn't detect the sweetness level you were looking for with the honey, sometime later today I will post an updated version of the molasses/wildflower dough formulation. I'd like to think a bit more about such a combination and the amounts of molasses and honey that might work this time. In the meantime, can you tell me which molasses product and honey you would like to try?

Peter

Peter,

Lol, I even forgot about that formula I tried out of yours with 4% honey and 4% Brer Rabbit molasses.  That is what happens when I try to many experiments at one time.  :-D

I could either use the Brer Rabbit Mild Flavored molasses or the Grandmaís Original molasses.  I have both products at home.  For the honey, I would like to use the raw and unprocessed light honey.  I left that at market Tuesday, but can bring it home tomorrow.

Thanks for saying you would think over a formulation for me to try. 

I did mix another MM attempt using the same formula I had used for Tuesday a little while ago.  I am going to let the dough sit at room temperature to see if it will be ready to make both pretzels and a pizza today.  I have no idea if it will ferment enough.  I am just going to divide the dough in 2 for a small pizza and pretzels. 

Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #652 on: November 10, 2011, 05:19:09 PM »
Norma,

I have set forth below an MM dough clone formulation that uses the Grandma's Original molasses and the wildflower honey from the man at market. FYI, today I checked out the honey collections at four different stores (two "dollar" stores and two regular supermarkets). I found that the honey products were virtually identical in terms of the Nutrition Facts (e.g., 16-17 grams of sugar for a 21-gram serving), even if the honeys themselves were not identical. I saw honeys that were blends of honeys from the U.S., Canada, Mexico, Uruguay, Brazil and Argentina but I also saw some from India. I would say that most of them looked like clover honey. I purchased a bottle of clover honey from one of the supermarkets. It is a house brand (Fiesta) that also happened to be the cheapest of the honeys I examined. In coming up with the MM clone formulation below and especially to calculate the "adjusted" hydration that compensates for the water in the molasses and the honey, I had to take into account that honey has about 17% water whereas liquid molasses has 22% water. The ultimate objective is to achieve a finished dough that is of the same color as a real MM dough and with the desired degree of sweetness in the finished crust. That can be a rather tall order since both honey and molasses impart color and sweetness to the dough/crust. Different liquid molasses products and different types of honey can require different percents to achieve the benchmark objectives for color and sweetness.

Here is the new MM dough clone formulation:

MM#5 Grandma's Original/Wildflower Honey Dough Clone Formulation
Unbleached High-Gluten Flour (100%):
Water (Spring Water) (54%):
IDY (0.60%):
Morton's Kosher Salt (2%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (2%):
The Man at Market's Wildflower Honey (5.5%):
Grandma's Original Molasses (7.5%):
Total (171.6%):
306.37 g  |  10.81 oz | 0.68 lbs
165.44 g  |  5.84 oz | 0.36 lbs
1.84 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.61 tsp | 0.2 tbsp
6.13 g | 0.22 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.28 tsp | 0.43 tbsp
6.13 g | 0.22 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.35 tsp | 0.45 tbsp
16.85 g | 0.59 oz | 0.04 lbs | 2.41 tsp | 0.8 tbsp
22.98 g | 0.81 oz | 0.05 lbs | 3.32 tsp | 1.11 tbsp
525.72 g | 18.54 oz | 1.16 lbs | TF = 0.1204643
Note: Nominal thickness factor = 0.118684; dough is for a single 14" pizza; "adjusted" hydration = 56.6%; "effective" hydration = 58.8%; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

As before, you can adjust the formula hydration up or down a percentage point if you want higher or lower adjusted and effective hydration values.

Peter
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 01:33:21 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #653 on: November 10, 2011, 05:57:31 PM »
Norma,

I have set forth below an MM dough clone formulation that uses the Grandma's Original molasses and the wildflower honey from the man at market. FYI, today I checked out the honey collections at four different stores (two "dollar" stores and two regular supermarkets). I found that the honey products were virtually identical in terms of the Nutrition Facts (e.g., 16-17 grams of sugar for a 21-gram serving), even if the honeys themselves were not identical. I saw honeys that were blends of honeys from the U.S., Canada, Mexico, Brazil and Argentina but I also saw some from India. I would say that most of them looked like clover honey. I purchased a bottle of clover honey from one of the supermarkets. It is a house brand (Fiesta) that also happened to be the cheapest of the honeys I examined. In coming up with the MM clone formulation below and especially to calculate the "adjusted" hydration that compensates for the water in the molasses and the honey, I had to take into account that honey has about 17% water whereas liquid molasses has 22% water. The ultimate objective is to achieve a finished dough that is of the same color as a real MM dough and with the desired degree of sweetness in the finished crust. That can be a rather tall order since both honey and molasses impart color and sweetness to the dough/crust. Different liquid molasses products and different types of honey can require different percents to achieve the benchmark objectives for color and sweetness.

Here is the new MM dough clone formulation:

MM#5 Grandma's Original/Wildflower Honey Dough Clone Formulation
Unbleached High-Gluten Flour (100%):
Water (Spring Water) (54%):
IDY (0.60%):
Morton's Kosher Salt (2%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (2%):
The Man at Market's Wildflower Honey (5.5%):
Grandma's Original Molasses (7.5%):
Total (171.6%):
306.37 g  |  10.81 oz | 0.68 lbs
165.44 g  |  5.84 oz | 0.36 lbs
1.84 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.61 tsp | 0.2 tbsp
6.13 g | 0.22 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.28 tsp | 0.43 tbsp
6.13 g | 0.22 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.35 tsp | 0.45 tbsp
16.85 g | 0.59 oz | 0.04 lbs | 2.41 tsp | 0.8 tbsp
22.98 g | 0.81 oz | 0.05 lbs | 3.32 tsp | 1.11 tbsp
525.72 g | 18.54 oz | 1.16 lbs | TF = 0.1204643
Note: Nominal thickness factor = 0.118684; dough is for a single 14" pizza; "adjusted" hydration = 56.6%; "effective" hydration = 58.8%; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

As before, you can adjust the formula hydration up or down a percentage point if you want higher or lower adjusted and effective hydration values.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for setting-forth a MM dough clone formulation that uses the Grandmaís Original molasses and the wildflower honey from the man at market.  I will mix the formula probably Saturday or Sunday, and try it on Tuesday.  Since I liked the results of freezing the dough, and letting it defrost longer, I am going to do that again.

It is interesting that you checked out the Nutrition Facts and the honeys were virtually identical in the Nutrition Facts in terms of the sugar.  I guess you also are going to try a combination of honey and molasses for another attempt at a MM pizza, since you purchased the Fiesta brand of honey.  My honey doesnít have any Nutrition Facts on my bottle of honey.  I wonder why different honeys vary so widely in prices.  I looked this past Tuesday at market and my jar of honey was 4.25.

I can understand it was a tall order to get the formula right, since both honey and molasses impart color and sweetness to the dough/crust.   Can you tell me why you decided to up the soybean (vegetable) oil by 1%? 

Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #654 on: November 10, 2011, 06:21:14 PM »
If anyone is interested, and has a facebook page, this is where my honey came from.  My honey is called Wampler Honey.  http://www.facebook.com/pages/Wampler-Honey/172460555861
If anyone doesnít have a face book page, this was something I thought was interesting on Wamplerís that they posted.  Food Safety News:  Tests Show Most Store Honey Isnít Honey. http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/11/tests-show-most-store-honey-isnt-honey/

Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #655 on: November 10, 2011, 06:57:19 PM »
Norma,

Yes, I purchased the Fiesta "honey" with the intention of making another MM clone dough with it, along with the Grandma's Original molasses. In fact, I already made the dough and it is now in the freezer. The color of the dough was a little too golden for me so I modified the amounts of honey and molasses for the MM#5 dough formulation I gave you today to achieve a more tan appearance. Of course, that was based on the clover honey I purchased and its particular hue. Your wildflower honey may have a different natural color.

I was quite surprised how expensive honey has become. I saw dinky bottles of honey that were over $3. My Fiesta honey was $4.99 for 24 ounces. I even saw one bottle of what was labeled honey and it had corn syrup in it. There was more of the corn syrup than the honey.

On the matter of the amount of oil, I have been playing around with 1-3% and can't say that I noticed a big difference, although in some cases I was also making other changes, including making adjustments to the amount and form of wheat germ, whose use I have discontinued for now. The 2% oil figure was the one used in the MM#4 recipe. You should feel free to change it to whatever value you would like to use in the new MM#5 dough formulation. The theory on oil was that if there is too much oil in the dough, along with a lot of sweeteners, the finished crust will be softer and more tender rather than somewhat dense and chewy. But the oil is only one factor. One can achieve particular crust characteristics by adjusting bake temperatures and times and even by using a different oven and different stone/oven configurations. Those same factors can also affect final crust coloration. The high sweetener content of the MM doughs accentuates and accelerates the Maillard and caramelization functions.

Peter
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 01:41:51 PM by Pete-zza »

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #656 on: November 10, 2011, 09:14:28 PM »
Norma,

Yes, I purchased the Fiesta "honey" with the intention of making another MM clone dough with it, along with the Grandma's Original molasses. In fact, I already made the dough and it is now in the freezer. The color of the dough was a little too golden for me so I modified the amounts of honey and molasses for the MM#5 dough formulation I gave you today to achieve a more tan appearance. Of course, that was based on the clover honey I purchased and its particular hue. Your wildflower honey may have a different natural color.

I was quite surprised how expensive honey has become. I saw dinky bottles of honey that were over $3. My Fiesta honey was $4.99 for 12 ounces. I even saw one bottle of what was labeled honey and it had corn syrup in it. There was more of the corn syrup than the honey.

On the matter of the amount of oil, I have been playing around with 1-3% and can't say that I noticed a big difference, although in some cases I was also making other changes, including making adjustments to the amount and form of wheat germ, whose use I have discontinued for now. The 2% oil figure was the one used in the MM#4 recipe. You should feel free to change it to whatever value you would like to use in the new MM#5 dough formulation. The theory on oil was that if there is too much oil in the dough, along with a lot of sweeteners, the finished crust will be softer and more tender rather than somewhat dense and chewy. But the oil is only one factor. One can achieve particular crust characteristics by adjusting bake temperatures and times and even by using a different oven and different stone/oven configurations. Those same factors can also affect final crust coloration. The high sweetener content of the MM doughs accentuates and accelerates the Maillard and caramelization functions.

Peter

Peter,

I saw at the regular grocery store how expensive honey has become.  My wildflower honey is 1 lb.  I think you saw the problems with honey now.  Hopefully if someone decides to use honey in the MM clone dough, they wonít get a honey with corn syrup in it other honeys that arenít good.

Thanks for explaining why you didnít see a big difference in the amount of vegetable/soybean oil (1-3%) that is used in the formulas.  I didnít know that the high sweetener content of the MM doughs accentuates and accelerates the Maillard and caramelization functions.

Maybe I also will need to adjust the formula to get a tan appearance too.

Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #657 on: November 10, 2011, 09:18:44 PM »
The experiment at home went well with the same formula that was used Tuesday.  The dough balls were left to ferment at room temperature for 6 Ĺ hrs.  The dough ball opened well, and could be tossed and twirled.  The dough was a little more gassy, but that didnít seem to make any difference, at least to me. The bake in my home oven also went well.  The rim crust had nice oven spring.  There were only two things that I noticed that were different.  Since the dough ball wasnít frozen, the color of the dough ball and baked rim crust were lighter.  The other thing that was different was the crust was a little sweeter. 

The dressing used on the pizza was ďGrubĒ, and mild white cheddar.  After the bake, Hot Sauce, (made with Texas Pete Buffalo Style Chicken Wing Barbeque Sauce, honey, and melted butter with garlic) was sprinkled over the melted mild white cheddar.  I also cut fresh chives from my garden and sprinkled them over the pie.  The standard butter garlic sauce was also brushed on the rim, then Parmesan cheese was sprinkled on the rim.

Then I used the second dough ball to make the pretzels.  That experiment went okay too.  I made 4 soft pretzels out of the second dough ball.  I decided to try four different ways to dressed the soft pretzels.  One had nothing on, the second had the butter and garlic sauce with Parmesan cheese, the third had melted butter with honey and garlic powder, and the fourth had salt, garlic butter honey mixture with Parmesan cheese .

The pretzels all tasted good.  It is really easy to make soft pretzels with this dough.  ;D

Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #658 on: November 10, 2011, 09:19:58 PM »
Norma


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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #659 on: November 10, 2011, 09:20:53 PM »
Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #660 on: November 10, 2011, 09:21:48 PM »
Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #661 on: November 10, 2011, 09:22:39 PM »
Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #662 on: November 10, 2011, 09:23:58 PM »
Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #663 on: November 10, 2011, 09:24:56 PM »
Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #664 on: November 10, 2011, 09:25:51 PM »
Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #665 on: November 10, 2011, 09:27:05 PM »
Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #666 on: November 10, 2011, 09:27:54 PM »
Norma


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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #667 on: November 10, 2011, 09:28:44 PM »
Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #668 on: November 10, 2011, 09:29:50 PM »
Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #669 on: November 11, 2011, 08:47:41 AM »
Norma,

Thank you for conducting the recent experiment using a fresh MM clone dough ball. I have been assuming all along that MM uses the same dough balls for both fresh and frozen applications. If that assumption is correct, then I wondered how a fresh dough ball would perform in a normal room temperature setting. The approximately 6 1/2-hour room temperature fermentation you mentioned is in the ballpark of what I would have estimated for 0.60% IDY. I'm sure that you got a lot more fermentation with the recent fresh dough ball than the frozen/defrosted MM clone dough balls that you have been using.

I'm not quite sure how to explain how you ended up with a lighter crust and crumb and a sweeter crust than your frozen/defrosted versions. Most sweeteners (e.g., excluding something like lactose) are fermentable, albeit yeast favors some sweeteners over others in terms of fermentation activity and yeast will ferment different sugars at different rates as a result. In the case of the molasses (including the molasses in brown sugar), it contains simple sugars for the yeast to feed off of quite quickly while other, more complex sugars, including those locked up in the starch in the flour, need to be converted to simple sugars for the yeast to use. If you got a lighter-colored crust and crumb and added sweetness in the finished crust, that would seem to suggest that the sugars in the molasses were first used by the yeast and at least partially depleted and that the sugars that ended up as residual sugar to contribute to crust sweetness (and final crust coloration) came in good part from the sugars released by the amylase enzymes from the damaged starch in the flour. The 6 1/2-hour room temperature fermentation should have been long enough for this to happen, especially when compared with the fementation that a defrosted frozen dough ball gets as it defrosts and warms up during tempering. This is just my speculation since I have never read of that sort of thing occurring and I have never tested the idea. Also, I believe that it is the ash content and minerals in molasses that are primarily responsible for the color (and taste) of molasses, which I believe would remain after fermentation. You would have to repeat the experiment, in exactly the same way as much as possible, to see if the results are reproducible. I wouldn't think that the oven used to bake the pizza (that is, your home oven versus your deck oven at market) would make a material difference, but that is another variable that would have to be removed from the equation.

Out of curiosity, have you been selling the MM clone pizzas at market or do the rules at market prevent you from doing so?

Peter

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #670 on: November 11, 2011, 12:15:52 PM »
Norma,

Thank you for conducting the recent experiment using a fresh MM clone dough ball. I have been assuming all along that MM uses the same dough balls for both fresh and frozen applications. If that assumption is correct, then I wondered how a fresh dough ball would perform in a normal room temperature setting. The approximately 6 1/2-hour room temperature fermentation you mentioned is in the ballpark of what I would have estimated for 0.60% IDY. I'm sure that you got a lot more fermentation with the recent fresh dough ball than the frozen/defrosted MM clone dough balls that you have been using.

I'm not quite sure how to explain how you ended up with a lighter crust and crumb and a sweeter crust than your frozen/defrosted versions. Most sweeteners (e.g., excluding something like lactose) are fermentable, albeit yeast favors some sweeteners over others in terms of fermentation activity and yeast will ferment different sugars at different rates as a result. In the case of the molasses (including the molasses in brown sugar), it contains simple sugars for the yeast to feed off of quite quickly while other, more complex sugars, including those locked up in the starch in the flour, need to be converted to simple sugars for the yeast to use. If you got a lighter-colored crust and crumb and added sweetness in the finished crust, that would seem to suggest that the sugars in the molasses were first used by the yeast and at least partially depleted and that the sugars that ended up as residual sugar to contribute to crust sweetness (and final crust coloration) came in good part from the sugars released by the amylase enzymes from the damaged starch in the flour. The 6 1/2-hour room temperature fermentation should have been long enough for this to happen, especially when compared with the fementation that a defrosted frozen dough ball gets as it defrosts and warms up during tempering. This is just my speculation since I have never read of that sort of thing occurring and I have never tested the idea. Also, I believe that it is the ash content and minerals in molasses that are primarily responsible for the color (and taste) of molasses, which I believe would remain after fermentation. You would have to repeat the experiment, in exactly the same way as much as possible, to see if the results are reproducible. I wouldn't think that the oven used to bake the pizza (that is, your home oven versus your deck oven at market) would make a material difference, but that is another variable that would have to be removed from the equation.

Out of curiosity, have you been selling the MM clone pizzas at market or do the rules at market prevent you from doing so?

Peter

Peter,

I wanted to see what would happen with a fresh MM dough, and how long it would take to ferment at room temperature.  Right now since it is cooler in our area, my kitchen isnít the warmest.  I let the dough balls sit on the counter and a chair near a heat source for the 6 Ĺ hrs.  I could have put the dough balls in the oven (with the light on) to speed-up the fermentation process, but I wanted to see how long the dough balls would take to look like they were ready to be used.  I think I could have used the dough balls before I did.  I had a final dough temperature of 79.8 degrees F.  The dough balls just looked like they sat there for awhile doing nothing and then they started to ferment faster.  It could be seen in the one picture I posted how when I pressed out the rim of the skin, how gassy it looked.  The pretzels also were gassy, but just by rolling them the gas disappeared. 

If your assumption is correct that MM uses the same dough for fresh and frozen applications, how do you think they manage the dough balls for a few days, if they used the same yeast amount?  I know they could use a cooler to keep the dough balls from fermenting too fast, but would think over a few days they might ferment too much.  I donít think there would be any problems with frozen doughs balls, like you and I have been testing.

I am not sure why I did get a lighter crust and sweeter crust, but I know when I did the one experiment in freezing the dough, and then letting it defrost, the dough and crust did become darker.  The dough getting darker is still a mystery to me.   

Your explanations on why my crust might have been lighter and sweeter are interesting.  I wonder if the molasses and brown sugar, (with molasses) are different in that the sugars in the products were first used by the yeast and then partially depleted in good part from the sugars released by amylase enzymes from the damaged starch in the flour. I still donít understand enough about residual sugars and how they contribute to crust sweetness.  Maybe the 6 Ĺ hr. room temperature fermentation would have been long enough for the things you mentioned to happen.  It still wonders me about the dough ball not getting darker from not freezing it.  I might do another experiment next week, and make two dough balls at home again and see if I can get the same results.  To keep my final dough temperature exactly the same and also the method of room temperature fermentation the same, might be difficult.  I doní t think there are enough pizza formulas that used molasses and brown sugar before to know what might happen.  At least I found out from the experiment that a MM pizza can be made in a relatively short time.  How would I remove the oven equation if I do another experiment?

To answer your question about if I am selling the MM clone pizzas at market, the answer is no.  I am still trying to find the best formula to use there.  I do want to start making the MM clone pizzas at market, but want to do some more tests.  I am allowed to sell any kind of pizzas at market, since I am the only person at market that makes fresh pizza.  I think the MMís pizzas would sell, but I wouldnít be sure until I try to sell them. 

BTW, about the pretzels experiments with the different dressings used, they did all taste different in some way or another.  The pretzels I had put the butter garlic butter with honey mix in, were sweeter and had a shiny appearance.  Since I didnít taste any like that at MM, I donít know how they are supposed to taste, but the honey added to the butter garlic mix did make the pretzels shiny. The salt added on some of the pretzels, did also make the taste of those pretzels different, because of the salty taste. I donít know from the rolling of the dough for the pretzels, (they were denser) if that somehow affects the taste of them or not.  My pretzels all seemed to taste a little on the sweeter side, but they were good.  The pretzels I ate from MM werenít that sweet.  That is still another mystery for me.

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #671 on: November 11, 2011, 03:00:27 PM »
Norma,

You raise some good questions as to how MM's commissary and many of their stores in the area manage fresh dough balls. Since our attention has been dedicated mainly to the MM dough formulation and frozen dough balls, I hadn't really delved into how the MM commissary process might be designed and implemented to make both fresh and frozen dough balls. I have simply been assuming, perhaps erroneously, that the same dough is used to make fresh and frozen dough balls. However, it is possible that MM has separate production lines in its commissary for the two types of dough balls. MM has 43 of its approximately 122 stores in Georgia alone, and maybe some other stores in other states within reach of the commissary, so it is possible that there is a separate production line for the fresh dough balls. We don't know the store delivery cycle that MM uses but other companies with commissaries that deliver dough balls to their stores, such as Papa John's, Domino's and Papa Gino's, make twice a week deliveries to most of their stores. That would allow MM to use less yeast in their fresh dough and allow the stores to hold the dough balls in their coolers for a few days until ready to be used. I might add, however, that when I made my first MM dough clone, I used 0.375% IDY and a three-day cold ferment (I also used liquid molasses at 7%). While the pizza tasted very good, the dough did not rise much and had a rather flat rim when baked. It was on this basis that I decided to increase the amount of yeast in later experiments for the frozen dough balls. On the assumption that freezing the dough would impair some of the yeast, I increased the amount of IDY to 0.60%. That seemed to work pretty well but I also used 0.50% and 0.55% IDY in some of my experiments. Those values seemed to work pretty well but I settled on 0.60% for insurance purposes.

With respect to the change in the color of dough balls between fresh and frozen, my experience with the MM clone dough balls has always been that they look lighter after freezing than before freezing. And the color always returns to the original color when defrosted. If freezing molasses in the process does something to the color of the molasses, given that molasses contains about 22% water, I don't think that it is a permanent change. It might be like how olive oil when refrigerated can become cloudy but the cloudiness disappears when the oil is brought back to room temperature for a while.

To conduct another test to see if a fresh MM clone dough experiences a color change and increased sweetness as you reported with your last MM clone dough ball, you could simply repeat the last experiment as closely as possible and see if you get the same results as with the last dough ball. I would use your home oven so that you don't introduce another variable, such as using your oven at market. You could also make two identical MM clone dough balls and use one fresh and freeze the other for later use, in both cases using your home oven to bake the pizzas. That might not be a perfect experiment, because there is no easy way to equate the two fermentation periods for the two dough balls and the pizzas would be baked with a time shift, but it might be close enough to demonstrate whether using a fresh dough ball yields a lighter and sweeter crust than a defrosted frozen one. Maybe you could use the fresh dough ball after one day of cold fermentation and defrost the frozen dough ball over two days in your refrigerator. The results you get might tell you whether there is any point in doing any similar experiments but where you use your deck oven at market to bake the pizzas.

I wondered whether you were selling any of your MM clone pizzas at market because I couldn't recall whether you were making and freezing the dough balls at home rather than at market. I also couldn't recall if you had freezer capacity at market to allow you to both make and freeze the dough balls at market if the market rules prohibit making the dough balls off premises. Of course, those rules wouldn't apply to fresh dough balls made and used entirely on site.

Peter


Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #672 on: November 11, 2011, 04:44:35 PM »
Norma,

You raise some good questions as to how MM's commissary and many of their stores in the area manage fresh dough balls. Since our attention has been dedicated mainly to the MM dough formulation and frozen dough balls, I hadn't really delved into how the MM commissary process might be designed and implemented to make both fresh and frozen dough balls. I have simply been assuming, perhaps erroneously, that the same dough is used to make fresh and frozen dough balls. However, it is possible that MM has separate production lines in its commissary for the two types of dough balls. MM has 43 of its approximately 122 stores in Georgia alone, and maybe some other stores in other states within reach of the commissary, so it is possible that there is a separate production line for the fresh dough balls. We don't know the store delivery cycle that MM uses but other companies with commissaries that deliver dough balls to their stores, such as Papa John's, Domino's and Papa Gino's, make twice a week deliveries to most of their stores. That would allow MM to use less yeast in their fresh dough and allow the stores to hold the dough balls in their coolers for a few days until ready to be used. I might add, however, that when I made my first MM dough clone, I used 0.375% IDY and a three-day cold ferment (I also used liquid molasses at 7%). While the pizza tasted very good, the dough did not rise much and had a rather flat rim when baked. It was on this basis that I decided to increase the amount of yeast in later experiments for the frozen dough balls. On the assumption that freezing the dough would impair some of the yeast, I increased the amount of IDY to 0.60%. That seemed to work pretty well but I also used 0.50% and 0.55% IDY in some of my experiments. Those values seemed to work pretty well but I settled on 0.60% for insurance purposes.

With respect to the change in the color of dough balls between fresh and frozen, my experience with the MM clone dough balls has always been that they look lighter after freezing than before freezing. And the color always returns to the original color when defrosted. If freezing molasses in the process does something to the color of the molasses, given that molasses contains about 22% water, I don't think that it is a permanent change. It might be like how olive oil when refrigerated can become cloudy but the cloudiness disappears when the oil is brought back to room temperature for a while.

To conduct another test to see if a fresh MM clone dough experiences a color change and increased sweetness as you reported with your last MM clone dough ball, you could simply repeat the last experiment as closely as possible and see if you get the same results as with the last dough ball. I would use your home oven so that you don't introduce another variable, such as using your oven at market. You could also make two identical MM clone dough balls and use one fresh and freeze the other for later use, in both cases using your home oven to bake the pizzas. That might not be a perfect experiment, because there is no easy way to equate the two fermentation periods for the two dough balls and the pizzas would be baked with a time shift, but it might be close enough to demonstrate whether using a fresh dough ball yields a lighter and sweeter crust than a defrosted frozen one. Maybe you could use the fresh dough ball after one day of cold fermentation and defrost the frozen dough ball over two days in your refrigerator. The results you get might tell you whether there is any point in doing any similar experiments but where you use your deck oven at market to bake the pizzas.

I wondered whether you were selling any of your MM clone pizzas at market because I couldn't recall whether you were making and freezing the dough balls at home rather than at market. I also couldn't recall if you had freezer capacity at market to allow you to both make and freeze the dough balls at market if the market rules prohibit making the dough balls off premises. Of course, those rules wouldn't apply to fresh dough balls made and used entirely on site.

Peter



Peter,

I donít believe we will ever find out if MM does have separate production lines for fresh and frozen dough balls.  I didnít recall that your first experiment used 0.375% IDY and a three-day cold ferment. The 0.60% IDY does seem to be working well in the formula now.

When I find time, I will mix two identical MM dough balls with the same formula I used yesterday, and use one fresh, and freeze the other for later use to see if there are any color or sweetness changes.  I will bake both in my home oven. 

I have been mixing and freezing my experimental dough balls at home to be baked at market.  If the dough balls would be used to make pizzas for customers at market, I would need to mix the dough at market.

Norma

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #673 on: November 12, 2011, 09:47:45 AM »
Wayback Machine in 1999
http://web.archive.org/web/19991012225712/http://mellowmushroom.com/You_are_what/whatyoueat.shtml  The ingredients have changed for the dough since then.

This is on Spring Street looking toward the southeast.  In the background is the original location of the Mellow Mushroom which had an address of 1193 Spring Street.  One Atlantic Center now stands on this piece of property.
Date:  1979
http://atlantatimemachine.com/dukes/08.htm

I donít think this video at Fort Worth, Texas was posted before.
http://www.nbcdfw.com/the-scene/food-drink/Perfect-Pies-From-Fort-Worth-Guys.html

I know this has been mentioned before by Peter but, In this article Brasch does say that MM locations around Georgia do receive fresh dough deliveries.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3190/is_41_40/ai_n26707254/

The team at MM with their names, pictures, CEO and President and more. What their jobs are, from Senior Field coach, Senior Graphic Designer, Driver, Commissary Manager, and more.
http://ja-jp.facebook.com/media/set/comments/?set=a.38963691183.60442.38954621183

Article about MM at Slice yesterday by Todd Brock.
http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2011/11/daily-slice-mellow-mushroom-pizza-bakers-marietta-ga.html
The rim on the slices of MM pizza on Slice look darker than they normally look, and the rim doesnít look as pronounced.

I am not sure which of these pictures was the first MM pizza business.  

Norma
« Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 06:04:07 PM by norma427 »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #674 on: November 12, 2011, 03:28:06 PM »
Norma,

I believe that the MM employee I spoke with about the MM dough is Melody (Mel). That may not be her real name since, as you know, there is an MM cartoon character by the name of Melody Mushroom. You might get a kick out of this cartoon featuring some of the MM cartoon characters, including Melody: http://mellowmushroom.com/public/old_site1/toons/sundried.html. If Melody is the one I spoke with and is a Product Innovation Manager, I think she would, or should, know what goes into the MM dough.

The number of MM stores mentioned in the Slice article is wrong. There are currently 132 MM units, including those that are in the process of opening. As of 2010, there were 122 units.

I read a review article recently where the writer complained about the slow service (40 minutes for a small specialty pizza) and the high prices at one of the recently opened MM stores (as much as $27.95 for some of the 16" specialty pizzas). There are actually quite a few MM 16" specialty pizzas above $25.

Peter