Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?

[norma427]

Norma,

When you reported on your visit to the MM DC location, you mentioned that the pretzels were made from a small dough ball. Do you recall how many pretzels could be made out of that dough ball? For example, was it a half-order or a full-order and how many pretzels are there in a half-order?

Peter

Peter,

When I visited MM DC location we ordered a half order of pretzels.  If my recollection is okay there were three pretzels made of the small dough ball. 

Norma

[norma427]

Peter,

If it helps at all, I posted the pictures of the girl cutting the pretzels out of the small dough ball at Reply 418 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg157599.html#msg157599
and the pretzels that came to our table at Reply 430 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg157612.html#msg157612

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

Thank you. I remembered that you had posted on the MM pretzels and went back to see the posts you referenced but I wanted to be sure of the number of pretzels in a half-order. Also, in the meantime, I did some quick calculations using the MM Nutrition Facts and confirmed that a small dough ball is used to make the pretzels. In your case, did you get the pretzels with the butter and Parmesan cheese? And, did you detect any garlic?

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

Thank you. I remembered that you had posted on the MM pretzels and went back to see the posts you referenced but I wanted to be sure of the number of pretzels in a half-order. Also, in the meantime, I did some quick calculations using the MM Nutrition Facts and confirmed that a small dough ball is used to make the pretzels. In your case, did you get the pretzels with the butter and Parmesan cheese? And, did you detect any garlic?

Peter

We got the half order of pretzels with garlic butter and Parmesan. I couldn't detect the garlic on the soft pretzels. Wow, you sure are fast at doing the calculations from the MM Nutrition Facts!   

Norma

[Biz Markie]

Looks like I'm rather late to the party!  I emailed MM and they stated there is no honey in their dough.

The whole sweetness thing is just so weird.  I have had pies within the past few months from different MM locations and they were not the same.  One was sweeter than the other, but not sure even the "sweet" one was all that sweet. 

[norma427]

I was thinking about molasses, and not being able to achieve a sweet taste in the crust using molasses alone.  I wonder if a product such as Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses http://www.dutchvalleyfoods.com/products/sugars-and-sweeteners/syrups-molasses/260069/golden-barrel-supreme-baking-molasses-5-gal-585lb
that has cane juice first in the ingredients, and blackstrap molasses as the second ingredient, would give any sweetness in the finished crust of a pizza.  I think blackstrap molasses does give more of a molasses flavor. Does anyone know anything about how this Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses, and if it might work, in making the crust the right color and also the right sweetness?  I know this is probably a wild guess, but thought it was interesting since cane juice is the first ingredient.

I don’t know if the Golden Barrel product is anything like Dark Cane Syrup, but in this article it explains that Dark Syrup is sweeter than molasses. http://www.ehow.com/info_8584737_difference-dark-cane-syrup-molasses.html

The reason I am posting about this is I read an article that vegans aren’t supposed to eat brown sugar either, at http://www.thisdishisvegetarian.com/2011/03/anxiety-free-vegan-baking-guide-to.html  and under sweeteners, it says that a good substitute for sweeteners is blackstrap molasses and evaporated cane juice.


Norma

[Biz Markie]

Thanks for sharing that, Norma.  The product you mention almost seems like a syrup and not truly molasses.  It contains molasses, but it's not "molasses."

I think the difficulty is that there are so many molasses products out there.  We have no way of knowing what MM is using unless we get some inside info, I suppose.

It's probably already been said, but we may just have to settle for a pseudo-clone that gets the flavor, color, and texture even if using ingredients MM doesn't use.

[norma427]

Thanks for sharing that, Norma.  The product you mention almost seems like a syrup and not truly molasses.  It contains molasses, but it's not "molasses."

I think the difficulty is that there are so many molasses products out there.  We have no way of knowing what MM is using unless we get some inside info, I suppose.

It's probably already been said, but we may just have to settle for a pseudo-clone that gets the flavor, color, and texture even if using ingredients MM doesn't use.

Biz,

I have looked at the Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses (in a smaller container) at my local supermarket or Country Store, but never really thought about the ingredients.  When I picked up a container and tried to see how thin it was it looked fairly thick, but I wouldn’t know that until a container would be opened. 

I also know there are so many molasses products out there and we probably will never know what MM really uses.

I think I would purchase a bottle of the Golden Barrel Baking Molasses, just to see what kind of crust it produces, but I wouldn’t know how much to add in the formula.

We might have to settle for a different kind of clone, but it is also interesting to explore the possibilities. 

Norma

[Biz Markie]

Definitely!  I haven't seen that product in stores in my neck of the woods but if I did, I'd probably be inclined to try it.  Sounds yummy!

There are several types of "country syrup" products on shelves around here, but I've generally eschewed them because they have HFCS or something similar typically.

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

That is very good thinking on your part on the Golden Barrel product. In fact, after looking at the MM Nutrition Facts and the "sugars" used in some of the MM baked products (like pretzels and some of their basic/simple pizzas), I was thinking along the same lines. I believe that honey is complementary to molasses since it has 15 grams of sugars for a 21-gram tablespoon (which makes it a sweeter product compared with most other natural sweeteners), and I think that it is a good choice for the home pizza maker attempting an MM clone, but there are other sweeteners, both natural and refined, that can be used with molasses without throwing off the color of the final dough and crust yet provide the desired degree of sweetness.

The MM "sugars" numbers that I examined in the MM Nutrition Facts seem to be less than what I have used in my MM clone dough formulations or that I gave to you to try. That leads me to believe that there may be a really sweet sweetener that is used along with the molasses to achieve the desired degree of sweetness in the finished crust without throwing off the color. The Golden Barrel product you cited might be one such product but I was thinking of something like the Steen's cane syrup or the Golden Granulated Evaporated Cane Juice Syrup product that you received as a sample and deemed to be "sickeningly sweet" (at Reply 527 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg158080.html#msg158080). My other guess at the moment is raw cane sugar (turbinado). I, too, would rule out brown sugar inasmuch as it is usually molasses with refined white sugar. Also, if MM is thinking of going organic with some of its ingredients, I can't imagine that they would be using something like high fructose corn syrup/corn syrup or an artificial sweetener. The Golden Barrel product you cited, or one like it, may be a candidate because it is called a "baking molasses" even though it apparently contains more cane juice than molasses. The sugars in that product are 13 grams for a 20-gram tablespoon. One would have to do some testing to see how much of that product would be needed to achieve both the desired degree of sweetness and the desired degree of dough/crust coloration. Then one can examine the "sugars" in that quantity and compare it with the MM Nutrition Facts.

I may learn more once I have had a chance to look at the MM Nutrition Facts more closely. That may take a while because I have some questions on some of the Nutrition Facts that can only be answered by MM. I plan to send an email to them once I collect the questions I want to ask.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

That is very good thinking on your part on the Golden Barrel product. In fact, after looking at the MM Nutrition Facts and the "sugars" used in some of the MM baked products (like pretzels and some of their basic/simple pizzas), I was thinking along the same lines. I believe that honey is complementary to molasses since it has 15 grams of sugars for a 21-gram tablespoon (which makes it a sweeter product compared with most other natural sweeteners), and I think that it is a good choice for the home pizza maker attempting an MM clone, but there are other sweeteners, both natural and refined, that can be used with molasses without throwing off the color of the final dough and crust yet provide the desired degree of sweetness.

The MM "sugars" numbers that I examined in the MM Nutrition Facts seem to be less than what I have used in my MM clone dough formulations or that I gave to you to try. That leads me to believe that there may be a really sweet sweetener that is used along with the molasses to achieve the desired degree of sweetness in the finished crust without throwing off the color. The Golden Barrel product you cited might be one such product but I was thinking of something like the Steen's cane syrup or the Golden Granulated Evaporated Cane Juice Syrup product that you received as a sample and deemed to be "sickeningly sweet" (at Reply 527 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg158080.html#msg158080). My other guess at the moment is raw cane sugar (turbinado). I, too, would rule out brown sugar inasmuch as it is usually molasses with refined white sugar. Also, if MM is thinking of going organic with some of its ingredients, I can't imagine that they would be using something like high fructose corn syrup/corn syrup or an artificial sweetener. The Golden Barrel product you cited, or one like it, may be a candidate because it is called a "baking molasses" even though it apparently contains more cane juice than molasses. The sugars in that product are 13 grams for a 20-gram tablespoon. One would have to do some testing to see how much of that product would be needed to achieve both the desired degree of sweetness and the desired degree of dough/crust coloration. Then one can examine the "sugars" in that quantity and compare it with the MM Nutrition Facts.

I may learn more once I have had a chance to look at the MM Nutrition Facts more closely. That may take a while because I have some questions on some of the Nutrition Facts that can only be answered by MM. I plan to send an email to them once I collect the questions I want to ask.

Peter

Peter,

It is interesting since you examined the “sugars’ at the MM Nutrition Facts you found their products seem to be less sweet than what you have used in your MM clone dough formulations, or the ones that you gave me to try.  It is also interesting that lead you to believe that there may be a really sweet sweetener that is used along with the molasses to achieve the desired degree of sweetness in the finished crust without throwing off the color. 

Do you think I should try an experiment for this coming week with the Golden Barrel Baking Molasses (alone without any other sweetener), or one with the Golden Granulated Evaporated Cane Juice Syrup in combination with molasses, or just stick to the last formula you tried and had good success with?

I know it will take you awhile to examine the MM Nutrition Facts more closely.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Do you think I should try an experiment for this coming week with the Golden Barrel Baking Molasses (alone without any other sweetener), or one with the Golden Granulated Evaporated Cane Juice Syrup in combination with molasses, or just stick to the last formula you tried and had good success with?

Norma,

It's up to you. However, it would be interesting to see if you get similar results to mine using a 14" version (with corresponding thickness factor) of the dough formulation I posted, and using your deck oven. If that doesn't do it for you, then you can try one or both of the sweeteners you mentioned. In the meantime, I hope to play around with the MM Nutrition Facts to see if my earlier statements are supported by a more thorough review of the MM Nutrition Facts. There is a lot of "wiggle" room with Nutrition Facts, especially with all the rounding. Also, in MM's case, their Nutrition Facts are different than most I have seen.

Peter

[Pete-zza]

This morning, while I was out shopping, I found the Steen's 100% Pure Cane Syrup at Wal-Mart's ($4.28 for a 16-ounce bottle) and at Kroger ($3.99 for a 16-ounce bottle). In both cases, the Steen's was in the pancake syrup sections of the stores.

Both stores also had reasonably priced store-brand and "value" branded clover honey. On a per-ounce basis, the cane syrup seems to be more expensive than the cheap honeys, but less expensive than the better known brands and the ones from local sources. I would imagine that pure cane syrups from commercial sources are considerably cheaper than honey.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

It's up to you. However, it would be interesting to see if you get similar results to mine using a 14" version (with corresponding thickness factor) of the dough formulation I posted, and using your deck oven. If that doesn't do it for you, then you can try one or both of the sweeteners you mentioned. In the meantime, I hope to play around with the MM Nutrition Facts to see if my earlier statements are supported by a more thorough review of the MM Nutrition Facts. There is a lot of "wiggle" room with Nutrition Facts, especially with all the rounding. Also, in MM's case, their Nutrition Facts are different than most I have seen.

Peter

Peter,

I will try your dough formulation for a MM pie for this Tuesday, to see if I get similar results to yours baked in the deck oven.  Should I use the same TF I have been using, or switch to your TF?
 
I don’t even know how you can review the MM Nutrition Facts.  I sure would be lost there.

I had to do some other errands, so I decided to stop at the Country Store to purchase some Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses. It was 2.29 for a pint. It only lists the ingredients as molasses, but I guess it is the same ingredients as the bulk palls of Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses.  I took a sample of the Golden Barrel Supreme Baking molasses, The Grandma’s Original Molasses, and the Brer Rabbit Mild Flavored Molasses, and spread samples on a white paper.  They all do look to be the same in thickness and color.  The Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses is sweeter in taste than the Grandma’s Original Molasses, or the Brer Rabbit Mild Flavored Molasses.  I don’t know why the taste of the Golden Barrel Baking Molasses would taste sweeter to me because it seems to be in line with both the other products in percents of sugar in the Nutrition Facts.  Maybe my taste buds are going haywire.  

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[Pete-zza]

I will try your dough formulation for a MM pie for this Tuesday, to see if I get similar results to yours baked in the deck oven.  Should I use the same TF I have been using, or switch to your TF?
 
I had to do some other errands, so I decided to stop at the Country Store to purchase some Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses. It was 2.29 for a pint. It only lists the ingredients as molasses, but I guess it is the same ingredients as the bulk palls of Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses.  I took a sample of the Golden Barrel Supreme Baking molasses, The Grandma’s Original Molasses, and the Brer Rabbit Mild Flavored Molasses, and spread samples on a white paper.  They all do look to be the same in thickness and color.  The Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses is sweeter in taste than the Grandma’s Original Molasses, or the Brer Rabbit Mild Flavored Molasses.  I don’t know why the taste of the Golden Barrel Baking Molasses would taste sweeter to me because it seems to be in line with both the other products in percents of sugar in the Nutrition Facts.  Maybe my taste buds are going haywire.  

Norma,

For youir next experiment, I would go with the thickness factor for a 14" pizza, which is 0.118684. BTW, when I made my last MM clone pizza, I used the methods that the MM workers used to form the rim and open up and stretch the dough ball as are shown in the videos that you posted at

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaYQBaOypfw" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaYQBaOypfw</a>

and

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC58EHcD3TA" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC58EHcD3TA</a>

except that I thought I did a better job than the workers in the videos. As you will see from those videos, the workers do not use the "slap" method to help open up the dough balls more. It is hard to use that method when making a 10" pizza from a dough ball that is quite stiff. The dough would have to be quite soft and extensible.

As between the Dutch Valley information on the Golden Barrel product and the information on the jar that you purchased, I would go with the Dutch Valley information (at http://www.dutchvalleyfoods.com/products/sugars-and-sweeteners/syrups-molasses/260069/golden-barrel-supreme-baking-molasses-5-gal-585lb). However, if you want confirmation, you can call Dutch Valley and ask them which information is correct, especially since there is a note ("Product information/materials may change. Refer to the package or call for updates") below the Dutch Valley ingredients list.

As far as sweetness is concerned, you can't really go on the amount of sugars. Some sugars, like fructose, are considerably sweeter than other sugars. Honey is also another sweetener that is sweeter than most other sugars. Cane syrup is sweeter than molasses because it is made by just boiling the cane juices to thicken them (or maybe it is just cane juice). As best I can tell, the mixture is not put in a centrifuge to spin off the heavier molasses, leaving the cane sugar crystals behind. If you decide to call Dutch Valley, you might ask them (if they know) how the Golden Barrel product is made. That is, do they actually blend cane syrup or raw cane juice with molasses, or is it the result of a single boiling operation?

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

For youir next experiment, I would go with the thickness factor for a 14" pizza, which is 0.118684. BTW, when I made my last MM clone pizza, I used the methods that the MM workers used to form the rim and open up and stretch the dough ball as are shown in the videos that you posted at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaYQBaOypfw and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC58EHcD3TA except that I thought I did a better job than the workers in the videos. As you will see from those videos, the workers do not use the "slap" method to help open up the dough balls more. It is hard to use that method when making a 10" pizza from a dough ball that is quite stiff. The dough would have to be quite soft and extensible.

As between the Dutch Valley information on the Golden Barrel product and the information on the jar that you purchased, I would go with the Dutch Valley information (at http://www.dutchvalleyfoods.com/products/sugars-and-sweeteners/syrups-molasses/260069/golden-barrel-supreme-baking-molasses-5-gal-585lb). However, if you want confirmation, you can call Dutch Valley and ask them which information is correct, especially since there is a note ("Product information/materials may change. Refer to the package or call for updates") below the Dutch Valley ingredients list.

As far as sweetness is concerned, you can't really go on the amount of sugars. Some sugars, like fructose, are considerably sweeter than other sugars. Honey is also another sweetener that is sweeter than most other sugars. Cane syrup is sweeter than molasses because it is made by just boiling the cane juices to thicken them (or maybe it is just cane juice). As best I can tell, the mixture is not put in a centrifuge to spin off the heavier molasses, leaving the cane sugar crystals behind. If you decide to call Dutch Valley, you might ask them (if they know) how the Golden Barrel product is made. That is, do they actually blend cane syrup or raw cane juice with molasses, or is it the result of a single boiling operation?

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for telling me to go with the thickness factor for a 14” pizza.  Good to hear you used the method of opening the dough balls like the MM workers used at the MM location in Washington, DC.  I didn’t try that method as of now.  I will also try to open the dough balls that way this week.  I can understand you would be more precise in going about opening your MM clone dough ball. 

I will either call Dutch Valley or Golden Barrel http://www.goldenbarrel.com/index.php or http://www.goldenbarrel.com/about-us.php  where I think they produce the Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses.  http://www.goldenbarrel.com/blackstrap-baking-molasses.php  I also will ask the other questions to find out about their products.  Since Golden Barrel is near me, I always could go there someday. 

I still have the data information for the Evaporated Cane Juice sample I received.  In the Chemical and Physical Characteristics it says the sucrose % in the Evaporated Cane Juice is 98.8-99.8.  It also says in the data that it is the ideal alternative to refined white sugar.  I you want me to post the data information for the Evaporated Cane Juice or the Golden Granulated Evaporate Cane Juice Syrup, I can copy and post that information.  The Evaporated Cane Juice Syrup says it sucrose % is 98.5  It also says it is an alternative to refined sweetener syrups.  I can also copy and post that information if you think it would help at all.

I didn’t know when looking at sugars on the Nutrition Facts you really couldn’t go by the sugars. 

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

If you don't mind, I would like to see the data on the two evaporated cane sugar products.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

If you don't mind, I would like to see the data on the two evaporated cane sugar products.

Peter

Peter,

These are the data sheets for the Granulated Cane Juice syrup and the Evaporated Cane Juice.  

[norma427]

Norma