Author Topic: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?  (Read 144808 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #900 on: December 20, 2011, 10:00:42 PM »
Peter,

Wow, you sure did a lot of tests!  After I have time to digest all of what you posted, I will post more.

Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #901 on: December 20, 2011, 10:06:02 PM »
The MM clone dough balls that were frozen twice were used today to make pizzas for customers.  The twice frozen dough balls worked well and were just like the doughs balls that were frozen one time.  I took the two frozen dough balls to market yesterday to let them defrost until today.  Steve, Randy, and I shared a slice cut into 3 pieces and it tasted just like the last few attempts.  It makes me happy that if any dough balls would be leftover at the end of the day they could be refrozen and still be good to use.

I brushed the rims again with Imperial margarine and garlic powder.  The Imperial margarine does work well and the crust seems more shiny from using the Imperial margarine and garlic powder.

Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #902 on: December 20, 2011, 10:07:12 PM »
Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #903 on: December 20, 2011, 10:09:28 PM »
Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #904 on: December 20, 2011, 10:10:47 PM »
End of pictures made from first twice frozen dough ball.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #905 on: December 20, 2011, 10:13:02 PM »
Pictures from second pizza made with twice frozen dough ball.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #906 on: December 20, 2011, 10:16:11 PM »
Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #907 on: December 20, 2011, 10:17:08 PM »
Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #908 on: December 21, 2011, 07:42:32 AM »
Norma,

Your latest pizzas look very good. It looks like you have a winner in the Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses. I may have a better idea once I try an all Steen's 100% Cane Syrup version of an MM clone dough, but unless MM has some kind of magical molasses that imparts noticeable sweetness while not darkening the dough and crust excessively, they would seem to be using something like the Golden Barrel product.

BTW, how did the sales of the MM clone pizzas go? Do you think that you will continue to offer them at market?

I posted the results of my recent experiments sooner than I intended because I will be leaving town for the holidays and I wanted you (and others) to read what I learned while the matter was still fresh in my mind and I had my notes to refer to.

To add to what I have already posted on the molasses experiments, I did a couple more tests yesterday to try to determine the moisture content of the Steen's 100% Cane Syrup and the Brer Rabbit Full Flavor molasses. The molasses tests take only a couple of hours for the finished weights to stabilize (the flour test is also a short test). I used the same metal lid. To be sure that the molasses dried uniformly, I used only a small amount (I have been using 3.2 grams for my molasses tests) and I made sure to spread the samples over the entire inner surface of the metal lid to form a uniformly thin layer. It was clear when I added the Steen's product to the lid that it was thinner than the other molasses products I have been using. For that product, I got a moisture content of 25%. For the Brer Rabbit Full Flavor molasses, I got a moisture content of 21.875%, the same as for the Grandma's Original molasses. The water content of generic molasses as given at the nutritiondata.self. com website, as I calculated it from their data, is 21.78%, which they round off to 22% (which is the number I have been using for my calculations). So, it looks like 22% is a solid number to use.

Peter

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #909 on: December 21, 2011, 08:53:05 AM »
Norma,

Your latest pizzas look very good. It looks like you have a winner in the Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses. I may have a better idea once I try an all Steen's 100% Cane Syrup version of an MM clone dough, but unless MM has some kind of magical molasses that imparts noticeable sweetness while not darkening the dough and crust excessively, they would seem to be using something like the Golden Barrel product.

BTW, how did the sales of the MM clone pizzas go? Do you think that you will continue to offer them at market?

I posted the results of my recent experiments sooner than I intended because I will be leaving town for the holidays and I wanted you (and others) to read what I learned while the matter was still fresh in my mind and I had my notes to refer to.

To add to what I have already posted on the molasses experiments, I did a couple more tests yesterday to try to determine the moisture content of the Steen's 100% Cane Syrup and the Brer Rabbit Full Flavor molasses. The molasses tests take only a couple of hours for the finished weights to stabilize (the flour test is also a short test). I used the same metal lid. To be sure that the molasses dried uniformly, I used only a small amount (I have been using 3.2 grams for my molasses tests) and I made sure to spread the samples over the entire inner surface of the metal lid to form a uniformly thin layer. It was clear when I added the Steen's product to the lid that it was thinner than the other molasses products I have been using. For that product, I got a moisture content of 25%. For the Brer Rabbit Full Flavor molasses, I got a moisture content of 21.875%, the same as for the Grandma's Original molasses. The water content of generic molasses as given at the nutritiondata.self. com website, as I calculated it from their data, is 21.78%, which they round off to 22% (which is the number I have been using for my calculations). So, it looks like 22% is a solid number to use.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for saying the latest pizzas look good.  I was concerned before I did this test, about if the dough balls were frozen twice, maybe if too many yeast cells would be killed and maybe the crust wouldnít rise enough.  The two dough balls were left in the pizza prep fridge all day last Tuesday before they were refrozen for the second time.  At least I donít see a second refreeze as a problem at this time.  The Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses seem to work well. I will be waiting to see how your experiment works out with the Steenís 100% Cane Syrup version of an MM clone dough.  It does seem like MM is using something like the Golden Barrel product, but donít know how we could find out what they are using. 

As for your question about how the MM clone dough pizzas went, I only made one MM clone pizza yesterday morning and it sold quickly.  The second MM clone pizza wasnít made until later in the day, because since it was Christmas week it was busier than normal at market.  I didnít have time to make it until later.  The second pizza sold except for two slices.  I havenít made any signs up for the MM clone pizzas or offered any for customers to taste.  I am going to continue to make the MM clone pizzas at market.  Winter is a slower time for me, after New Years week, so I donít know how well the MMís pizza will take hold in the winter.  The customers that bought the slices really liked them.  One customers that tried a slice last week, did buy another slice last evening.

Thanks for posting the results of your recent experiments sooner that you intended, since you are going to be out of town for the holidays.  I still havenít had the time to digest all that information, but will over the course of the next few days. 

Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #910 on: December 21, 2011, 03:22:31 PM »
Peter,

To comment on your previous posts a little more, it was interesting that you could figure out a ďsucrose equivalencyĒ for the Grandmaís Original molasses at 12.5%.  Lowering your protein blend was also interesting in determining  how the crumb of the rim would change.  What other changes could have contributed to how texturally or chewiness changes in the rim?  Sorry, to keep asking questions, but I donít understand how changes can make chewiness or not.  I do understand some flours give less or more of chewiness to pizzas, but it is always a challenge for me to understand what flours to use for more or less chewiness in the rim or all that goes into textural changes.  I guess I donít have enough experience with using different flours to know all about that.

Your test to see if the oils from the pizza could make the rim glisten were also interesting.  Glad to hear you did get your rim to glisten.  I guess the jury is still is out on that because some MM rims are shiny and some are not.

Your hydration-related tests are way-out.  :o Who would have thought of doing those tests, but you, in trying to find out how much water was actually in the dough compared with calculations you came up with on paper, to help you know if you ever get a sample of a really MM dough, then you will be able to compare and find out the water content of MM dough.

Good to hear you did search and found a way to conduct that test with your countertop toaster oven and a metal lid.  What you went thought about and went through to determine how much loss of water the original skin had after baking and deciding that the flour blend also had moisture content, which needed to be also calculated with the molasses is mind boggling.  :chef: I think you are a real Rube Goldberg type.

Your numbers came really close to the generic molasses given at the nutrition data.sef.com website, at least to me, except for the Steenís 100% Cane Syrup.  I never knew moisture contents could be calculated at home for different molasses products.  

Since I am no good at calculations, I have no way of calculating what moisture content is of the Golden Barrel Supreme Baking molasses that I am using for my MM attempts.

Norma
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 03:24:08 PM by norma427 »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #911 on: December 22, 2011, 09:14:55 AM »
Norma,

I am getting ready to go on Xmas break but I did not want to leave you hanging on your questions and make you await my return.

On the matter of the Grandma's Original molasses, the amount I used was 12.5% but the corresponding sucrose equivalent number was about 5.2%. I actually worked backwards on this one in that I started with the sucrose equivalency number that seemed to be in the range that would manifest itself as sweetness in the finished crust and then determined how much of the Grandma's Original molasses would be needed to produce that sucrose equivalency number. I wanted sweetness but I did not want to end up with a dough that was too dark because I had to add so much of it.

With respect to the chewiness of the finished crust, if I were to list all of the things that affect that characteristic, it would be a very long list. But, the obvious ones that seem to apply in the MM project are the type of flour, the hydration of the dough, the way the dough is kneaded, the amounts of sweetener and oil, how the skins are formed, and the bake regimen. Normally, when I am working on reverse engineering/cloning projects alone, I am more scientific about how I proceed. That usually means changing only one variable at a time. But on a communal project such as we have been engaged in here, I have often changed a couple or more of the variables at one time in order to save time. But, even at that, I am now up to the 22d MM clone dough formulation. In the most recent example, I changed the flour blend, used a different amount of molasses, and a different oil. I don't know which of these changes affected the finished crust texture the most, if at all, but I would say that the amount of molasses, and the tenderness it imparts to the crumb, was perhaps the major factor, along with the different flour blend, but possibly in a rather minor way since the amount of VWG was not a great deal different than used before.

The hydration and moisture content experiments were indeed fun and interesting. However, after I calculated a moisture content of 25% for the Steen's 100% Pure Cane Syrup, I recalled that Narris Duhon at Steen's had given me the moisture content for the Steen's product. It was 23.13%. When I tried to explain the disparity to myself, I concluded that my little digital scale isn't accurate enough. I would need to use a scale with an accuracy of 0.01 gram to get more accuracy in my numbers. For example, a fraction of a gram could throw the numbers off by a couple of percent.

You may have to explain to our younger members who or what a Rube Goldberg is. In this vein, I was reading an article recently (on a political matter) where the author said that he increasingly found himself using expressions in his writing or references to people that young people perhaps never heard of and wouldn't understand. I have found myself guilty of the same thing, yet the expressions I use have become part of my DNA and seem so natural to me to use. Maybe we will have to pay more attention to how young people express themselves so that we don't send them to dictionaries or Google for them to understand what we are saying :-D. Maybe we will have to start using terms like "Dude/Dudette" and "bro" more and to refer to Justin Bieber and Selena Gomez and their ilk (there I go agian with another archaic expression) just to show people how cool and hip we are  :-D.

By the way, yesterday I made another MM clone dough to use upon my return from vacation. It is based on using all Steen's 100% Pure Cane Syrup. However, this time I tried to achieve the desired dough color by adding the Steen's product to the processor bowl gradually rather than all at once and accepting the final dough color. I then calculated the amount of the Steen's product that was needed to achieve the targeted dough color, by percent. It was about 17%. I hope to run one of my hydration experiments on this dough upon my return, even though the numbers may not be as accurate as I would like.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #912 on: December 22, 2011, 10:16:24 AM »
Norma,

I am getting ready to go on Xmas break but I did not want to leave you hanging on your questions and make you await my return.

On the matter of the Grandma's Original molasses, the amount I used was 12.5% but the corresponding sucrose equivalent number was about 5.2%. I actually worked backwards on this one in that I started with the sucrose equivalency number that seemed to be in the range that would manifest itself as sweetness in the finished crust and then determined how much of the Grandma's Original molasses would be needed to produce that sucrose equivalency number. I wanted sweetness but I did not want to end up with a dough that was too dark because I had to add so much of it.

With respect to the chewiness of the finished crust, if I were to list all of the things that affect that characteristic, it would be a very long list. But, the obvious ones that seem to apply in the MM project are the type of flour, the hydration of the dough, the way the dough is kneaded, the amounts of sweetener and oil, how the skins are formed, and the bake regimen. Normally, when I am working on reverse engineering/cloning projects alone, I am more scientific about how I proceed. That usually means changing only one variable at a time. But on a communal project such as we have been engaged in here, I have often changed a couple or more of the variables at one time in order to save time. But, even at that, I am now up to the 22d MM clone dough formulation. In the most recent example, I changed the flour blend, used a different amount of molasses, and a different oil. I don't know which of these changes affected the finished crust texture the most, if at all, but I would say that the amount of molasses, and the tenderness it imparts to the crumb, was perhaps the major factor, along with the different flour blend, but possibly in a rather minor way since the amount of VWG was not a great deal different than used before.

The hydration and moisture content experiments were indeed fun and interesting. However, after I calculated a moisture content of 25% for the Steen's 100% Pure Cane Syrup, I recalled that Narris Duhon at Steen's had given me the moisture content for the Steen's product. It was 23.13%. When I tried to explain the disparity to myself, I concluded that my little digital scale isn't accurate enough. I would need to use a scale with an accuracy of 0.01 gram to get more accuracy in my numbers. For example, a fraction of a gram could throw the numbers off by a couple of percent.

You may have to explain to our younger members who or what a Rube Goldberg is. In this vein, I was reading an article recently (on a political matter) where the author said that he increasingly found himself using expressions in his writing or references to people that young people perhaps never heard of and wouldn't understand. I have found myself guilty of the same thing, yet the expressions I use have become part of my DNA and seem so natural to me to use. Maybe we will have to pay more attention to how young people express themselves so that we don't send them to dictionaries or Google for them to understand what we are saying :-D. Maybe we will have to start using terms like "Dude/Dudette" and "bro" more and to refer to Justin Bieber and Selena Gomez and their ilk (there I go agian with another archaic expression) just to show people how cool and hip we are  :-D.

By the way, yesterday I made another MM clone dough to use upon my return from vacation. It is based on using all Steen's 100% Pure Cane Syrup. However, this time I tried to achieve the desired dough color by adding the Steen's product to the processor bowl gradually rather than all at once and accepting the final dough color. I then calculated the amount of the Steen's product that was needed to achieve the targeted dough color, by percent. It was about 17%. I hope to run one of my hydration experiments on this dough upon my return, even though the numbers may not be as accurate as I would like.

Peter



Peter,

Thanks for letting me know that the amount of Grandmaís Original molasses at the amount of 12.5% has the sucrose equivalent number of 5.2%.  I keep getting that stuff messed up.

Thanks also for posting about the chewiness and what might affect that characteristic.  I can understand what has gone into this reverse-engineering project more than some others, because I have been involved in this project more than some others.  It is hard to believe you are already on your 22nd MM formulation. 

I often wonder how accurate my kitchen scale is too, but am sure you are better at using your home kitchen scale.  Interesting that you recalled Narris Duhon at Steenís giving you the moisture content for the Steenís product at 23.13%.

To explain some who Rube Goldberg is here are link two links.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rube_Goldberg  and http://mousetrapcontraptions.com/ Rube Goldberg is best know for a series of popular cartoons depicting complex gadget that perform simple task in indirect, convoluted ways.  Peter reminds me of Rube Goldberg in many ways, because of all the experiments he does to get an exact end result.

Now to use some urban slang to give more meaning to where Peterís posts donít go, it would sound something like this.  Dude: So I heard of the nowhere story bout Peter doin his stuff, and finding info bout MM.  Dudette:  Wow dude, thanks fro that info bro!  I am not good at urban slang but do hear younger people using it all the time. From my DNA I have been raised in the Amish and Mennonite or Pa. Dutch area, so my sayings or writing might make younger or older people think, ďwhat the heck is she talking aboutĒ!  I am really also ancient in many ways of stating things, so maybe if younger people want to know what I am saying, they can just ask. 

Will be waiting to see how your experiment works out using the Steenís 100% Pure Cane Syrup, after you get back.


Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #913 on: December 26, 2011, 06:41:03 PM »
I wanted to try another approach to the MM clone dough.  I mixed 2 dough balls Saturday, then froze them, took them to market today and let them defrost some while I was there, then put them into the deli case.  I donít know how these two dough balls will perform, but will see tomorrow. I wanted to see if a dough ball could be kept frozen until Monday and then be used on Tuesday.  I donít know if they will ferment enough.

My next experiment with the MM clone dough might be to mix 5 dough balls on a Monday, let them cold ferment until Tuesday to see if that might work.

Pictures of two MM clone dough balls starting to defrost at market today.  I didnít coat these two dough balls with cornmeal.

Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #914 on: December 27, 2011, 09:03:46 PM »
The MM clone attempt with defrosting the dough ball for less than one day worked out well.  These are pictures of the one MM clone dough ball used this morning.  The dough ball opened easily and the resulting pie was the same as my other attempts.

Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #915 on: December 27, 2011, 09:06:19 PM »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #916 on: December 27, 2011, 09:08:14 PM »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #917 on: December 27, 2011, 09:09:41 PM »
Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #918 on: December 28, 2011, 01:03:36 PM »
Norma,

One of the things I have noticed is that when I have worked with MM clone doughs that have had only one day of defrosting or have had less than about two hours of warmup time ( e.g, 1 1/2 hours), there is a tendency for bubbles to develop in the finished crust during baking (not before). That is one of the reasons why I was waiting to see if you got the same type of bubbling, as it appears you did from the oven photo you posted.

At some point I'd also like to see if an MM clone dough ball can be opened while cold, much as I believe you said was done at the MM location that you visited in DC. I believe that the MM clone dough balls we have been making are amazingly versatile and easy to work with but I don't know if they can be opened up cold and not develop a lot of bubbles. Even then, it is easy enough to just pop the bubbles either during or after baking. Unlike bubbles in other types of pizzas, the bubbles in MM clone pizzas seem to me to be quite soft, not crackly.

Peter

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #919 on: December 28, 2011, 03:08:05 PM »
Norma,

One of the things I have noticed is that when I have worked with MM clone doughs that have had only one day of defrosting or have had less than about two hours of warmup time ( e.g, 1 1/2 hours), there is a tendency for bubbles to develop in the finished crust during baking (not before). That is one of the reasons why I was waiting to see if you got the same type of bubbling, as it appears you did from the oven photo you posted.

At some point I'd also like to see if an MM clone dough ball can be opened while cold, much as I believe you said was done at the MM location that you visited in DC. I believe that the MM clone dough balls we have been making are amazingly versatile and easy to work with but I don't know if they can be opened up cold and not develop a lot of bubbles. Even then, it is easy enough to just pop the bubbles either during or after baking. Unlike bubbles in other types of pizzas, the bubbles in MM clone pizzas seem to me to be quite soft, not crackly.

Peter


Peter,

Interesting that you noticed that the MM clone doughs you worked with had a tendency to bubble in the finished crust, much like mine, if the dough had only one day to defrost or less warm-up time.  I also think the MM clone doughs are very versatile and easy to work with.  I donít know how someone would much problems with have failures using them. 

I still am not sure if the dough balls were opened cold at the MM location I visited in DC.  I thought they were, because they removed the dough balls out of what appeared to be a refrigerator unit I couldnít see.  For all I know it could have been some kind of proofer unit, but donít think so.  I have also noticed that the MM clone pizzas with bubbles are soft like you posted and not crackly like other pizzas.  I wonder what causes that. 

Steve had made some MM clone doughs from the one formula I had posted with the Grandmaís Original Molasses and brown sugar last week and had made one of the pies I think on Sunday.  He said that pie turned out well.  The leftover dough ball was brought to market yesterday by Steve and he was going to bake it at the end of the day yesterday.  The MM clone dough ball had risen and fermented very much.  By that time of the day all of us were stuffed from all the pizzas we had tried and couldnít bear to eat another slice of pizza.  Who would have thought that would have happened.  :-D  Steve took the MM clone dough ball home and might try it today.  Now, I wish we would have baked that MM clone dough to see how it tasted when it had fermented so much. 

Norma
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