Author Topic: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?  (Read 157419 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #260 on: October 05, 2011, 04:29:31 PM »
Peter,

I will test the ADM 65 DMP product as soon as I receive it. and see how sweet it is when water is added.  I also will take a picture of it and post what it looks like, along with the technical sheets.

I can understand if other members donít have access to the ADM 65 DMP product, they can try molasses with honey or maybe even sugar in a attempted MM pizza.  I donít think refined sugar is that bad for anyone either, if used in small amounts.  

I also wondered if there is a different sweeter molasses than we were able to find for MMís years ago.  Whatever they used all those years ago, they are ďsticking to their storyĒ of molasses being the one ingredients that makes their pizza unique.  I never even gave raw sugar a thought either.

I never saw those posts by November either, but then I never tried any molasses in any of my doughs, and didnĎt do a forum search on molasses.  I only wish I could have a small percentage of the brains Novembers has.  He has really given a lot of helpful information and data on this forum.

I do recall what Justin said in the video about the bake time and temperature.  I might have to do a little experimenting with my deck oven and maybe lower the temperature for one or more bakes and see what happens.  Also, since a lot of MMís pizza businesses are using Montague ovenís, (which are probably brick lined,) they probably wonít bake like my deck oven without the added top stone or added bricks.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #261 on: October 05, 2011, 05:19:44 PM »
Going from Novemberís one post at Reply 6 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1272.msg31906.html#msg31906
To the website at http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/standards

There are a lot of articles about molasses, if you put molasses in the search box at http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/standards

I guess if someone would search though all this articles about molasses they could get a pretty good idea about all the kinds of molasses that were available back when MMís started their pizza business.  Just for one article I looked at  effective November 16, 1959, there seems to be many different characteristics of molasses.  http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELDEV3011896  That was only the first article when I did the search on molasses. If a search on grading, certification and verification is searched there is more information. There is even an advance search feature. Who would have ever thought that there was so much information about molasses, except November.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #262 on: October 05, 2011, 05:21:51 PM »
Norma,

When I was researching molasses, I read that the lighter molasses has the most sugar. I believe that the lighter molasses remains after the first boiling, and that the supermarket brands that we have been using remain after the second boiling. Blackstrap molasses is what remains after the third boiling. Maybe we could use more of the supermarket brands of liquid molasses but then the color would be darker and the flavor of molasses would be more intense. Hopefully the ADM 65 DMP will be what we are looking for.

I also saw that from patents that drying of molasses was quite common in the 1970s and even sooner. Typically starches were used as part of the drying process. To this day, starches are used. Many, if not most, of ADM's dry molasses products use starch. In ADM's case, it is wheat starch.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #263 on: October 05, 2011, 06:44:17 PM »
Norma,

When I was researching molasses, I read that the lighter molasses has the most sugar. I believe that the lighter molasses remains after the first boiling, and that the supermarket brands that we have been using remain after the second boiling. Blackstrap molasses is what remains after the third boiling. Maybe we could use more of the supermarket brands of liquid molasses but then the color would be darker and the flavor of molasses would be more intense. Hopefully the ADM 65 DMP will be what we are looking for.

I also saw that from patents that drying of molasses was quite common in the 1970s and even sooner. Typically starches were used as part of the drying process. To this day, starches are used. Many, if not most, of ADM's dry molasses products use starch. In ADM's case, it is wheat starch.

Peter

Peter,

I thought that the lighter molasses had the most sugar, just by tasting them different times for recipes.  I also read in my limited research that the lighter molasses remains after the first boiling.  I understand that trying to use more supermarket molasses might make the crust color too dark, just as Biz and you posted before. 

I didnít know that you searched patents for when they first started drying molasses.  I wasnít aware about starches used in the drying process and didnít know ADM uses wheat starch in the drying process.  You researches are very informative.

Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #264 on: October 06, 2011, 03:35:30 PM »
Norma and Biz,

I decided yesterday to defrost the MM test dough ball and to make a pizza out of it. I defrosted the dough ball in the refrigerator for about 24 hours. From that point forward, I used the dough ball to have fun. I started playing around with the dough ball while it was quite cold, in order to see how it would handle while on the cool side (around 55 degrees F). I tried to form a highly distinct rim as shown in some of the MM videos, and then stretched the skin to form the desired size (10") and I tossed and spun the skin with reckless abandon. The dough was very robust, even with the KABF, and it didn't stick to anything. It is essentially idiot-proof. In retrospect, I think it would have been wise to let the dough warm up some more before using since the cool dough ball was quite elastic with memory (springback). But even with the KABF, the gluten of the dough was highly developed and resistant to tearing or ripping. I know that there are some people who frown on commissary-produced frozen dough balls, but I can now see the logic and merit of that business model for a company with many units and using inexperienced and transient young people to make the pizzas.

After dressing the pizza (a basic pepperoni pizza), I baked it on a pizza stone that had been placed on the lowest oven rack position of my electric oven and preheated for about an hour at around 525 degrees F. After about five minutes, I checked the bottom crust and saw that it was quite dark, but not burnt by any means, so I moved the pizza to the upper rack position in my oven for about an additional two minutes. That gave more top crust browning. Overall, the pizza almost perfectly captured the look and feel of the MM pizza I had at the MM store in Florida, and as I have seen from some of the official MM photos. The rim was bulbous and it was chewy. In general, the texture of the crumb was like that of the MM pizza I had in Florida.

There were two areas where the pizza fell short, however. First, the crust was not particularly sweet. However, I expected that given Norma's recent results with her frozen MM clone dough ball. Second, the texture of the crumb was not quite there. It was chewy but still a bit on the soft side. I think that may have been because I was using KABF and even with the vital wheat gluten it was not enough to give the denser crumb that I was looking for. I think also that I may have to come up with a better way of baking the pizza in order to get the desired crust and crumb texture. It might be using two pizza stones or even a pizza screen and a different oven rack position and different bake temperatures and times. Even when you think you have the right dough formulation, there is always the task and challege of adapting it to a home oven.

Norma, my focus now is back to your next experiment once you get the ADM 65 DMP. Of course, I will do everything I can to help Biz inasmuch as he has been a valuable contributor despite his denials that he is not up on the technical aspects of the project. He is also highly motivated. And he hasn't abandoned us.

As for me at this point, I bought some Kretschmer's toasted wheat germ with added Vitamin E recently and plan to try using that along with the Brer Rabbit molasses, plus a few other things, to see if I can come closer to an authentic MM crust with those ingredients. I will engage in that effort on the side. As is my practice, I do not plan to detail my results as I work my way through the process. However, there is a lot of information in this thread to let those who are on the sidelines watching the action to do their own experiments and to report back on their results.

Peter

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #265 on: October 06, 2011, 04:25:06 PM »
Peter,

Lol, I had to laugh when you said you used the defrosted MM dough ball for fun, and tossed and spun the skin without hesitation or other cautionary measures.  It is good you got the same results that Biz and I did in being the dough was so robust.  I can understand the formula you set-forth does make an idiot-proof dough.  

I guess I had about the same results as you did in the crust characteristics, being the rim was too soft.  I even used a deck oven and think I must have had the same results as you did.

Will be interested in what steps you might take to get a sweeter taste in the crust.  

This is my report.

I received the sample of ADM 65 DMP this afternoon.  To me it doesnít look much lighter than the ADM 4000 DMP and sure isnít much sweeter than the ADM 4000 DMP either, if any.  I took a picture of both of the products side by side, so there can been seen what the colors are of both of the products.  I also mixed 1 gram of ADM 65 DMP with 5 grams of water again and then took the picture outside.  To me the ADM 65 DMP doesnít look much lighter than the ADM 4000 DMP.

I scanned two of the technical data sheets.  If the others are needed, I can scan them.

I now am wondering if the ADM 65 DMP is the right product to try in an MM dough attempt.  See what you think Peter.  

Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #266 on: October 06, 2011, 04:27:22 PM »
Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #267 on: October 06, 2011, 04:28:38 PM »
Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #268 on: October 06, 2011, 04:59:18 PM »
Norma,

The original description of the ADM 65 DMP product says that it is tan-colored whereas the material you just posted says that the product imparts a dark color. Sometimes a material in bulk can look much darker than a thin layer of the same material. Would you mind putting a thin layers of the two ADM DMP products on a sheet of white paper and tell us if the ADM 65 DMP product is lighter in color than the ADM 4000 DMP product?

Peter

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #269 on: October 06, 2011, 06:13:55 PM »
Hey y'all!

Sorry I've been absent for a few days. . I was on the road, but as luck would have it, I was able to stop by a MM store in Farragut TN (I believe that'd be the mailing address).

I took some pics of the crust of my 10'' Mega Veggie, made without cheese or butter or parm on the crust.  I think you will see that the color is about the same as Norma's pics, and to my own eyes it's basically identical to what I've been producing.

But this whole little adventure has taught me one thing - taste buds are odd little things!  This MM pizza did not seem to be as sweet as the one I had in Franklin a few weeks ago.  But is that real or imagined??  Who knows! 

One possible difference is that the waiter at the Farragut store affirmed 100% that their dough arrives frozen on trucks.  When I asked in Franklin if it was made onsite or shipped in frozen, they said "a little of both."  Not sure what that means. 

But this most recent real MM pie crust actually tasted pretty similar to my last attempt if my taste bud memory is accurate. The crumb texture and structure also seemed to me to be very close to my last attempt.

Another thing I noticed was that this pie had a lot of cornmeal, and it seemed to be of a different variety than I have at home.  The MM cornmeal seemed to be more of a yellow cornmeal that was coarser.  The stuff I have is mostly white-looking and powdery.  It seemed to me that the cornmeal on the MM pie actually gave it a slightly sweet "corny" flavor (which I enjoyed).  I think I have seen other types of cornmeal at retail and may try something different.

I also tasted the kids's pizza that they ordered, which had the standard butter and parm on the rim.  First, the butter was definitely garlic in this case (at my last visit I didn't taste much garlic if any).  Secondly, it occurred to me that of course butter does have a slightly sweet taste to it.  I am not getting that flavor at home because I am using salty butter substitutes.

But the bottom line at this point is that I'm just really perplexed at the sweetness issue.  I'm not sure if it's my taste buds that can't be trusted or if  the doughs at the 2 different MM stores were truly different.

I did also scan the posts since my last post, and I saw something that made me think a bit. . ..It is true in my experience that the lighter molasses is sweeter than the darker varieties.  Blackstrap molasses, for example, has very little sweetness in my opinion. 
So one possible way to make it sweeter without changing the color is to just use more of a lighter molasses variety.

I have had daydreams of staking-out the nashville commissary to try to see if I can determine what kinds of ingredients are being used, but that might be hazardous to my health!


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #270 on: October 06, 2011, 07:19:02 PM »
Biz,

I can envision several possible scenarios where MM crusts at different MM stores can have different tastes, including sweetness. For example, a defrosted dough ball might be used after one day, or two days, or possibly stretched out to three days, and someone might refreeze an unused defrosted dough ball and defrost it again. Also, the facilities used to store and defrost frozen dough balls can vary from one MM unit to another.

It would be helpful to know if molasses is the only sweetener used in the MM dough or whether there is another sweetener also used in the dough besides molasses. It might be noted in this regard that the information that Norma posted on the ADM 65 DMP product mentions that that product should be used as a partial sugar substitute. If it is only molasses that is used, it most likely would have to be a first boil
molasses and a lot of it might be needed to yield enough sugar to be clearly detectible in the finished crust.

Peter



Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #271 on: October 06, 2011, 07:32:47 PM »
Norma,

The original description of the ADM 65 DMP product says that it is tan-colored whereas the material you just posted says that the product imparts a dark color. Sometimes a material in bulk can look much darker than a thin layer of the same material. Would you mind putting a thin layers of the two ADM DMP products on a sheet of white paper and tell us if the ADM 65 DMP product is lighter in color than the ADM 4000 DMP product?

Peter


Peter,

I donít mind taking any pictures.  This is a picture of the ADM 65 DMP with the ADM 4000 DMP.  As can be seen on the picture the ADM 65 DMP is only a slightly lighter brown color.  

I see on the ADM website at http://www.adm.com/en-US/Milling/drysweeteners/Pages/Molasses.aspx  it says the color should be tan, but the color looks brown to me, unless my eyes are deceiving me.  It is darker outside, so I couldnít take both samples outside in the sunlight to take the picture.

It makes me wonder if one of the ADM products like Dri-Mol 604 molasses powder or the Dri-Mol 60 dry molasses powder, which are both lighter in color and flavor, might be a better choice for an MM attempt.   I sure wouldnít know which product to try, or if either of them would be okay.  If the pdf. sheet http://www.adm.com/en-US/products/food/sweeteners/Documents/Dry%20Sweetener%20Food%20Applications%20Formula.pdf  on page 55 if looked at, Dri-Mol 604 has 55% molasses & other sweetener solids.  The Dri-Mol powder has 55% molasses and you can see what the rest of the dry molasses products have listed as ingredients.  On page 52 of the document sheets it says Golden Molasses Drop Cookies have Dri-Mol 604 molasses in the cookie mix.  I have made many different recipes of molasses cookies and all the ones I made are a darker brown in color.  I donít know what color the Dri-Mol 604 molasses would make the cookies or the MM crust.  Even the recipe for Mrs. Johnsonís Molasses Cookies used the Dri-Mol dry molasses on page 50.  The soft Molasses Drop Cookies on page 49 used the ADM 4000 DMP.  


Norma
« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 07:34:58 PM by norma427 »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #272 on: October 06, 2011, 07:53:30 PM »
Hey y'all!

Sorry I've been absent for a few days. . I was on the road, but as luck would have it, I was able to stop by a MM store in Farragut TN (I believe that'd be the mailing address).

I took some pics of the crust of my 10'' Mega Veggie, made without cheese or butter or parm on the crust.  I think you will see that the color is about the same as Norma's pics, and to my own eyes it's basically identical to what I've been producing.

But this whole little adventure has taught me one thing - taste buds are odd little things!  This MM pizza did not seem to be as sweet as the one I had in Franklin a few weeks ago.  But is that real or imagined??  Who knows!  

One possible difference is that the waiter at the Farragut store affirmed 100% that their dough arrives frozen on trucks.  When I asked in Franklin if it was made onsite or shipped in frozen, they said "a little of both."  Not sure what that means.  

But this most recent real MM pie crust actually tasted pretty similar to my last attempt if my taste bud memory is accurate. The crumb texture and structure also seemed to me to be very close to my last attempt.

Another thing I noticed was that this pie had a lot of cornmeal, and it seemed to be of a different variety than I have at home.  The MM cornmeal seemed to be more of a yellow cornmeal that was coarser.  The stuff I have is mostly white-looking and powdery.  It seemed to me that the cornmeal on the MM pie actually gave it a slightly sweet "corny" flavor (which I enjoyed).  I think I have seen other types of cornmeal at retail and may try something different.

I also tasted the kids's pizza that they ordered, which had the standard butter and parm on the rim.  First, the butter was definitely garlic in this case (at my last visit I didn't taste much garlic if any).  Secondly, it occurred to me that of course butter does have a slightly sweet taste to it.  I am not getting that flavor at home because I am using salty butter substitutes.

But the bottom line at this point is that I'm just really perplexed at the sweetness issue.  I'm not sure if it's my taste buds that can't be trusted or if  the doughs at the 2 different MM stores were truly different.

I did also scan the posts since my last post, and I saw something that made me think a bit. . ..It is true in my experience that the lighter molasses is sweeter than the darker varieties.  Blackstrap molasses, for example, has very little sweetness in my opinion.  
So one possible way to make it sweeter without changing the color is to just use more of a lighter molasses variety.

I have had daydreams of staking-out the nashville commissary to try to see if I can determine what kinds of ingredients are being used, but that might be hazardous to my health!


Biz,

Lol, you posting about having daydreams of staking-out the Nashville commissary to see if you can determine what kinds of ingredients are being used.  :-D I have done something similar to that in another thread.  

Being serious, you recent report does shed more light on why different customers report different sweetness levels in the crust when they are tried at different times, or different MM pizza businesses at different locations.  Good to hear your last attempt was pretty similar to your recent real MM taste.  :) I think Peter is right on how the pies at two different MMís locations had different sweetness levels in the taste.  My attempt on Tuesday didnít have the exact sweetness that my attempt had when I left the dough cold ferment longer, and then left it sit out for longer.  I first attributed that the taste wasnít as sweet from the dough ball being frozen right after the dough was balled, but can see how different MMís locations donít always manage the dough balls the same.  I would think after the frozen dough balls are at the MMís locations the dough wouldnít be kept as cold (frozen) as when they were blast frozen.  

I am using the coarser toasted darker cornmeal in my attempts.

Thanks so much for your recent report.  It does shed more light on how different two MMís locations can be in how the pizzas taste in the sweetness levels.

I think this thread is going to drive all of us crazy.

Norma
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 08:09:39 AM by norma427 »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #273 on: October 06, 2011, 08:18:12 PM »
Norma,

You raise some good points about the ADM Dri-mol products. When I first found the ADM website on their sweeteners, I was first attracted to the Dri-mol products. It was only after talking with the ADM sales rep and explaining the pizza dough application that he suggested going with the two dry molasses powders that you now have. If the ADM 65 DMP doesn't do the trick, then you might want to try the Dri-mol products you referenced if you are up to it.

I also noticed that just about all of the recipes for baked goods at the ADM website that call for one of their dried molasses powders also call for another form of sugar. This begs the question as to whether dry molasses powder alone is enough.

If you'd like to proceed with the ADM 65 DMP product and need a dough formulation, let me know. I think I would be aggressive with the amount of that molasses powder, if only to see if it is possible to get sufficient sweetness with only the dry molasses powder.

Peter

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #274 on: October 06, 2011, 08:44:48 PM »
Norma,

You raise some good points about the ADM Dri-mol products. When I first found the ADM website on their sweeteners, I was first attracted to the Dri-mol products. It was only after talking with the ADM sales rep and explaining the pizza dough application that he suggested going with the two dry molasses powders that you now have. If the ADM 65 DMP doesn't do the trick, then you might want to try the Dri-mol products you referenced if you are up to it.

I also noticed that just about all of the recipes for baked goods at the ADM website that call for one of their dried molasses powders also call for another form of sugar. This begs the question as to whether dry molasses powder alone is enough.

If you'd like to proceed with the ADM 65 DMP product and need a dough formulation, let me know. I think I would be aggressive with the amount of that molasses powder, if only to see if it is possible to get sufficient sweetness with only the dry molasses powder.

Peter

Peter,

I think your instincts on being attracted to the Dri-mol products were right.  I think the ADM sales rep probably really didnít know what color you wanted the dough and how much sweetness you wanted in the crust, since he never heard of an MMís pizza business. 

I really donít think the any of the dry molasses powders will be enough, without some kind of sweetener added,  just like ADM add sweeteners to their other food products.  I tasted the ADM 65 DMP dry and with the water added.  It almost tastes exactly like the ADM 4000 DMP.  The ADM 65 DMP is only a tiny bit less bitter.  As I noted in my attempt with the ADM 4000 DMP, there was really no sweetness in that crust.  The pie was good, but I think we are looking for some kind of sweetness in the crust.

I donít know what you really want me to do, but I donít think my results will turn out anything like a MMís pizza in terms of sweetness, no matter how much of the ADM product I used in the formula.  The ADM 65 DMP is just too bitter in taste.

I can try to request samples of ADM Dri-mol products, if you want me to give those products a shot.

If you want me to, I can just try the MM #2 formula again this week, with maybe added honey or raw sugar.  I have both the raw sugar and honey at home.  If you want me to give the ADM 65 DMP a shot I will.  Let me know what you want me to try out.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #275 on: October 07, 2011, 08:11:30 AM »
Peter,

I wanted to ask you a question about raw or unrefined sugar, and if that would fit the profile of MMís operations not using refined sugar in their dough, as they mentioned at http://mellowmushroom.com/public/old_site1/aboutus.html  Raw or unrefined sugar still has some molasses in it as I understand.

Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #276 on: October 07, 2011, 09:52:10 AM »
I wanted to ask you a question about raw or unrefined sugar, and if that would fit the profile of MMís operations not using refined sugar in their dough, as they mentioned at http://mellowmushroom.com/public/old_site1/aboutus.html  Raw or unrefined sugar still has some molasses in it as I understand.


Norma,

That is a good question. In fact, before I mentioned raw cane sugar to you in an earlier post I did some research on the subject. As you know, raw cane sugar is made by crystallizing the initial pressing of 100% pure sugar cane and, indeed, it does contain a small amount of molasses. The impression I got is that it takes a fair amount of additional processing beyond the first pressing to arrive at what we commonly call "refined" table sugar. It also appears that raw cane sugar is sold under the name "turbinado" sugar. I have a bag of Imperial Sugar Gold'N Natural turbinado sugar and the package uses expressions like "made from natural cane" to emphasize the natural and purportedly "healthier" and more "wholesome" form of that sugar. The leading brand of turbinado sugar is Sugar in the Raw. You might also be interested in knowing that the Sugar in the Raw brand of turbinado sugar was first introduced in 1974, the year that MM was formed: http://www.jlwfoodsales.com/principal_profile.cfm?id=167. So, raw cane sugar has been around for a very long time.

I even wondered whether MM might be using only raw cane sugar in its doughs. However, even though the turbinado sugar is tan colored, I think it would take too much of that sugar to get the desired degree of coloration of MM's dough balls. Also, I think it would be too thin a reed on which to base a claim that the dough contains molasses, with the implication that it is more than just a hint of it.

Of all of the "unrefined" "natural" forms of sweeteners, I would say that raw cane sugar may be the least expensive and with more stable pricing over time (unlike honey whose pricing and supply has been wildly erratic). So, if one were to use another form of natural sugar to complement molasses in a pizza dough in a commercial commissary setting, raw cane sugar would be my first choice. All marketing hype aside, I think that one can make out a case that raw cane sugar is not a "refined" sugar. At least I think that such a position is defensible enough to support a claim that MM is not using refined sugar in the dough and would be in line with the claims and language used by the producers of raw cane sugar in their promotion of raw cane sugar.

As far as the ADM 65 DMP product is concerned, I think I would give it a test drive since you already have it. I would perhaps try a combination of that product and raw cane sugar. If you would like me to come up with an MM test dough formulation to play around with, let me know.

Peter

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #277 on: October 07, 2011, 10:34:29 AM »
Norma,

That is a good question. In fact, before I mentioned raw cane sugar to you in an earlier post I did some research on the subject. As you know, raw cane sugar is made by crystallizing the initial pressing of 100% pure sugar cane and, indeed, it does contain a small amount of molasses. The impression I got is that it takes a fair amount of additional processing beyond the first pressing to arrive at what we commonly call "refined" table sugar. It also appears that raw cane sugar is sold under the name "turbinado" sugar. I have a bag of Imperial Sugar Gold'N Natural turbinado sugar and the package uses expressions like "made from natural cane" to emphasize the natural and purportedly "healthier" and more "wholesome" form of that sugar. The leading brand of turbinado sugar is Sugar in the Raw. You might also be interested in knowing that the Sugar in the Raw brand of turbinado sugar was first introduced in 1974, the year that MM was formed: http://www.jlwfoodsales.com/principal_profile.cfm?id=167. So, raw cane sugar has been around for a very long time.

I even wondered whether MM might be using only raw cane sugar in its doughs. However, even though the turbinado sugar is tan colored, I think it would take too much of that sugar to get the desired degree of coloration of MM's dough balls. Also, I think it would be too thin a reed on which to base a claim that the dough contains molasses, with the implication that it is more than just a hint of it.

Of all of the "unrefined" "natural" forms of sweeteners, I would say that raw cane sugar may be the least expensive and with more stable pricing over time (unlike honey whose pricing and supply has been wildly erratic). So, if one were to use another form of natural sugar to complement molasses in a pizza dough in a commercial commissary setting, raw cane sugar would be my first choice. All marketing hype aside, I think that one can make out a case that raw cane sugar is not a "refined" sugar. At least I think that such a position is defensible enough to support a claim that MM is not using refined sugar in the dough and would be in line with the claims and language used by the producers of raw cane sugar in their promotion of raw cane sugar.

As far as the ADM 65 DMP product is concerned, I think I would give it a test drive since you already have it. I would perhaps try a combination of that product and raw cane sugar. If you would like me to come up with an MM test dough formulation to play around with, let me know.

Peter


Peter,

I did remember you mentioned raw sugar to me in one of your posts before.  That is why I looked at my raw sugar (brownish in color, larger in crystals, and from the Country Store, so I donít know what brand it is).  I know the raw sugar does taste very sweet in flavor.  

I didnít know that turbinado sugar is Sugar in the Raw. I didnít even know they had small packets of Sugar in the Raw. My thinking on Sugar in the Raw has been limited to Stevia in the Raw. I did know that raw sugar is supposed to be healthier and a more wholesome form of sugar, but I really am not sure of that.  It is still sugar to me.  

I could envision MMís using raw sugar in combination with molasses, because they could say it isnít refined sugar, although we really donít know if MMís is using raw sugar.

I would appreciate if you would  come up with a test formulation for the ADM 65 DMP in combination with the raw sugar, for me to give a test-drive. I sure donít have any idea of how to formulate that. Remember though, my last attempt with the ADM 4000 DMP and my crust getting too dark.  I think the ADM 65 DMP will produce a darker crust too, if too much is used.  Do you still want me to try and request the ADM Dri-mol molasses samples?

These are a few pictures I copied from Google images from the Nashville commissary, and tried to enlarge them to see if the flour brand could be view or any other things can be seen.  My editing software is only paint, so I couldnít see the brand of flour MMís uses or anything different on the pictures.  Maybe if someone has better editing software, they could be able to spot something from the pictures.

I enjoyed Bizís pictures of the real MMís crust pictures.  :)  At least I have those in my mind to try and duplicate.

Norma
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 10:37:00 AM by norma427 »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #278 on: October 07, 2011, 10:35:09 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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