Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?

[Pete-zza]

If you can think of a formula to set-forth with brown sugar and molasses, I would be willing to try it for this Tuesday.  I knew molasses is added to white sugar to make brown sugar, because of our use of brown sugar in our Caramel Corn business. I know from adding brown sugar and corn syrup together from making the caramel corn, the taste is sweet when the caramel corn is finished, but not that really sweet, if that makes any sense. I asked how the crumb of the MM’s pies became so nice and light brown in color, and the kitchen manager said it was from the molasses.  I find you comment about Vitamin E interesting.  What do you suggest to do about that?

Edit:  I didn't have time to search, but is there any meaning from what the sign that MM's had posted on the one door that said Dough Boys Enterprises LLC?  Is there anything you want me to look for in the whole pie I brought home?  It is still whole.

Norma,

I will have to give some thought as to where we go next with this project, especially in light of the fact that you did not really detect a lot of sweetness in the crust of the pizzas you had at the DC MM location. I wouldn't really worry about the Vitamin E. I have always viewed that as a marketing ploy to lead people to believe that there is something different or better about the MM dough. I also wouldn't feel compelled to research the Dough Boy Enterprises LLC sign that you saw on the door of the MM DC location. That is perhaps a name that the franchisee had to pick for legal and tax reasons and maybe to immunize MM from any legal claims brought against the franchisee.

As for the pizza that you brought home, you might want to save a slice to use as reference points for crust color when you make future MM clones. However, if you freeze it, you may have to defrost it for comparison purposes since freezing can change the color of the slice. You might be able to hold the slice in the refrigerator for a few days but after that it is likely to dry up and shrink to the point where it is no longer usable for reference purposes. At that point, you might give it to Steve to eat .

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

First things first. To preserve the slice of MM pizza for Steve, you might want to immerse it in embalming fluid from a local mortuary. No, just kidding. I think I would freeze it. The slice might be a bit soggy upon defrosting, but if you reheat it in your deck oven at market, that might drive off some of the moisture and let Steve at least taste the crust and its relative sweetness.

On the matter of crust sweetness, the MM pizza I had in Florida had a distinct sweetness. Maybe it is because I use so little sugar in my diet that I have a lower threshhold for detecting sweetness. It drives me crazy when I pick up sugar in products where I don't think that it should even be present, or to the degree that it appears to be present in the products. As you may know, when food processors got rid of fat and some of the salt in their products, they replaced them with sugar and other sweeteners. In the case of MM, it is also possible that using messy liquid molasses, as the MM rep told me is used, that the manufacturing process in the MM commissary has variations in molasses from dough batch to dough batch. The reason I asked you about the dough management protocol at the MM DC location is because I wanted to see if they were doing something that might reduce the sweetness in the finished crust.

In one of my first experiments in this thread, I used 7% molasses (Grandma's Mild Flavor molasses), 2% oil and 54% hydration. And no other sweetener. The "adjusted" hydration to compensate for the water content of the molasses was 55.54%. When I added the 2% oil, I got an "effective" hydration of 57.54%. However, while I thought that the finished crust was delicious, principally because of the molasses flavor, the crust (and the dough from which it was made) was much darker than an MM dough and the dough was hard to open up to form a skin because it was stiff. That is what led me to increase the hydration. When I later switched over to the Grandma's Original molasses, which is a first boil product, I was able to use more of that molasses without adversely affecting the dough and crust coloration because it is a lighter molasses. Whether the samples of liquid molasses that you will soon be receiving allow you to use more of those products remains to be seen despite the admonition that were given to you by the lady at Domino's Specialty Ingredients. My thinking at this point is to drop back or even eliminate the added turbinado (raw cane sugar) and stick with the liquid Grandma's Original molasses but use more of it, mainly for the complexity of the sweetness of the molasses as opposed to the somewhat cloying sweetness of the raw cane sugar. Maybe we have been looking for love sweetness in all the wrong places.

On the matter of the tenderness and moistness of the finished crust, November once indicated that oil and sugar both have the capacity to retain moisture although oil is better at retaining moisture before the dough is baked and sugar is better at retaining the moisture during baking (see Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5043.msg42739/topicseen.html#msg42739). I had lowered the amount of oil that I first started playing around with to make the finished crust less breadlike and more dense and chewy. I think I would rather increase the amount of molasses rather than increasing the amount of oil, even if it means a darker dough and crust.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for your suggestion “comedy style” for me preserving a slice for Steve to taste.  Maybe in addition to being the person that helps everyone on this forum on ideas, facts, and formulas, you should also be a “stand up comic”!   It seems you are good at that too.  I would like Steve to taste a slice so he also can know what a real slice of a MM’s pie tastes like in terms of sweetness.

Even Biz has noted differences in the MM’s slices he had at MM’s locations in terms of sweetness.  I had thought when I went to MM’s yesterday the crust would have been sweeter.  That was not the case.  Even my daughter that had tasted most of my MM’s attempts also commented that she thought the MM’s pie we had yesterday wasn’t really that sweet at all.  There was a sweetness in the crust, but not what I would have expected. Even the soft pretzel (which is made out of the same dough, and didn’t have the sauce and cheese on them) really weren’t that sweet in taste.  We bought the soft pretzels just to see if there would be a difference in how sweet they tasted since there are no other ingredients added. The plain soft pretzel just tasted like malt with no molasses.  Don’t even ask about that, because I can’t explain that, even though I have tasted plenty of soft pretzels in our area. I know all our taste buds are different in tasting sugar, and yours is more sensitive.  You can see on the pictures I posted of the soft pretzels they don’t have that shiny glossy crust either.  That also still makes me wonder what they do after the bake to their regular pies to give it that darker glossy shine.

Thanks for referencing November’s post.  You are right that we may have been looking for love or sweetness in all the wrong place.   Who knows where all these experiments will led us.

I am not sure what experiment I will try for Tuesday, or if I will try any.  I am now more confused on what to try.  I know the next time I do decide to do any experimental MM’s pie, I am going to use my fine cornmeal.  That is what the pie makers used at MM’s yesterday. They said it is really hard to clean-up all that fine cornmeal and it gets all over the place.  My light cornmeal I have at market does look like the cornmeal MM’s uses.  One other thing I forgot to mention, was I saw two pie makers use the fine corn meal on the skin before adding the sauce, or other dressings.  I don’t know if that is something they do all the time, or if it was something they do for a special kinds of toppings.  I guess I didn’t pay enough attention to each pie they made while I was there.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

I have one other observation I have wondered about since I was on the way home last evening.  I saw the pie makers open the dough for my pies, dress my pies, and watched them baked in the oven.  I saw them take my pies out of the oven, but than sat down to wait for my pies.  When the pie maker removed the pies from the oven, I didn’t watch how the melted butter with garlic was brushed on, or how the Parmesan cheese was applied.  They take the pies back somewhere to do that.  It makes me wonder how the pies rim then gets so brown and glossy looking, when it wasn’t  like that when they first took it out of the oven.  None of the pies coming out of the oven has that brown glossing looking rim.  I now wish I would have tried to watch how they did that if I could have watched.  Did anyone else watch that process when they were at a MM’s pizzeria?

Norma,

I recall seeing a couple of MM videos where there was a fellow next to the oven who applied the garlic butter to the crust and dusted it with grated cheese. I seem to recall in one of the videos that the garlic butter was in a clear container. I tried to find that particular video but there are so many MM-related videos that I couldn't find it even though I thought it was referenced in this thread. However, I did find this video, at

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=albTZa4xlJw&amp;feature=related" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=albTZa4xlJw&amp;feature=related</a>

, that also shows a fellow next to the oven putting something on the pizza with a brush, with a cheese shaker in the same general work area. I couldn't make out what he was dabbing on the pizza. After we struggled trying to find out why the crusts were not sweet, I even wondered whether the MM workers who made the MM pizza I had put something like honey on the rim so that the grated cheese would stick better and not get absorbed into the garlic butter yet make the crust taste sweet. To test out this theory, I put some honey on the rim of the crust of one of my test pizzas. The rim was sweeter but it was not the same kind of sweetness I remembered. Maybe they are putting something like regular sugar or a sugar syrup in the garlic butter or in another container. That might give the rim the glossiness you mentioned.

The use of cornmeal on the top of the skin is shown in the video with Dustin at

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvixfngmz-g&amp;feature=related" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvixfngmz-g&amp;feature=related</a>

.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

I recall seeing a couple of MM videos where there was a fellow next to the oven who applied the garlic butter to the crust and dusted it with grated cheese. I seem to recall in one of the videos that the garlic butter was in a clear container. I tried to find that particular video but there are so many MM-related videos that I couldn't find it even though I thought it was referenced in this thread. However, I did find this video, at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=albTZa4xlJw&feature=related, that also shows a fellow next to the oven putting something on the pizza with a brush, with a cheese shaker in the same general work area. I couldn't make out what he was dabbing on the pizza. After we struggled trying to find out why the crusts were not sweet, I even wondered whether the MM workers who made the MM pizza I had put something like honey on the rim so that the grated cheese would stick better and not get absorbed into the garlic butter yet make the crust taste sweet. To test out this theory, I put some honey on the rim of the crust of one of my test pizzas. The rim was sweeter but it was not the same kind of sweetness I remembered. Maybe they are putting something like regular sugar or a sugar syrup in the garlic butter or in another container. That might give the rim the glossiness you mentioned.

The use of cornmeal on the top of the skin is shown in the video with Dustin at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvixfngmz-g&feature=related.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for referencing the video.  I also have watched so many videos, I forget which is which.  Thanks also for doing the test of putting honey on the crust.  I see where you referenced the corn meal put on the skin.  I also forgot about that.  I think my brain is going numb with all the information on this thread.

This is going to be my last post about the pizzas I bought at MM’s yesterday.  I wanted to reheat a slice to eat today, so I did.  I reheated two slices, one for my daughter and one for me.  The reheated slices tasted almost exactly the same as when we ate a fresh pie yesterday, with a little bit of a sweeter taste in the crust.  I wanted to mention another thing I noticed yesterday and today.  The pizza yesterday was on a pizza pan, and my daughter and I both noticed the pizza pan was greasy after we ate the pizza.  I don’t know if that means anything or not.  Today I noticed the lining of the pizza box was also greasy.  After the reheat, the bottom on the pizzas was greasy too.  I took a video to show the crumb and how the rim springs back even after reheating. It can also be seen on the video that my fingers got greasy from touching the bottom crust. The bottom of this pizza looked darker than the one we ate at MM’s, but it didn’t taste burnt in any way.  There was chew in the pizza just like yesterday and it could still be folded easily.

I froze a little bit of the crust to be able to see if any of my experimental MM’s pies look anything like the real MM’s crust.

Pictures of non reheated and reheated slice and video:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSIG4GpRkvk" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSIG4GpRkvk</a>

The first picture is of the reheated piece of pretzel last evening.


I am going to go away this evening. Maybe I will come back with a refreshed mind.  Hopefully! 

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[JConk007]

I am back here are the few pics I got from the new Mellow Mushroom location in Hilton Head Island SC

[JConk007]

thought I took more ,sorry. but heres my Pep and sausage and yes the Icon lighthouse  of Hilton Head Island Great week!

[mailliw]

There is a difference in liquid molasses sweetness.  The sweetest would be pure cane syrup such as Grandmas Gold molasses.  Then there is a "first boil".  It is less sweet but more robust.  This would be Grandmas molasses in the green jar.  Molasses gets less sweet through each "boil" till you get to blackstrap molasses, lot less sugar but higher in nutrition.
Try using unbleached  high gluten flour and Grandmas Gold molasses.  Just an idea.

[norma427]

I am back here are the few pics I got from the new Mellow Mushroom location in Hilton Head Island SC

John,

Thanks for posting your pictures of you visit to MM’s.  I enjoyed the pictures.  Since you have made many kinds of pizzas, how did you think the MM’s pepperoni and sausage pie tasted in reference to other pies you have made.  Was there sweetness in the crust of the pie you had and also how was the texture of the crumb?  Was your crumb rim the same texture as the pizzas I had from MM’s?  Also how would you rate the MM’s pie you had in terms of other pies you have eaten before.  Is there anything that stands out in you mind about a MM’s pie?

Glad to hear you had a nice vacation.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

Sometimes it makes sense to take a break from the action. But if you are interested in trying out another MM clone, I am willing to assist. I would just need to know what ingredients you want to use. I have been assuming that you have been using an unbleached high-gluten flour but I couldn't recall whether you had used the Grandma's Original molasses yet.

Peter

[JConk007]

Yes Norma I detected a sweetness in the crust that I had a hard time to put my finger on the taste. Cake Yes My crumb and texutre was very similar to yours quite tight, small,  Cake like ? not High gluten chewy from what I remember. I am thinking they do not do a long fermentation which does not give it time to develope much flavor. Maybe that is why they put the cheese on the rim  and stuff other flavors in there? I think the sauce had a different flavor as well. I tried to get a suace only bite to see if I could get the tomatoe but there were alot of flavors spices going on in the sauce as well. I do prefer a good NY style bit thinner, or cracker but i dont know many chains that are making anything I could eat on a regular basis . I only tried this because the locals said go and I wanted to see the buzz about this thread.  I liked the overall taste and as far as chains go I feel it is very good. They put out alot of pies I counted 10 people in the kutchen 4-5 on the full length pizza table.
I am home now and guess what I am making    100% caputo last night
Pizza Napolitano  tonight
miss it after 2 weeks and its beautiful outside !
good luck with the cloning I will be watching now for sure
John

[norma427]

Norma,

Sometimes it makes sense to take a break from the action. But if you are interested in trying out another MM clone, I am willing to assist. I would just need to know what ingredients you want to use. I have been assuming that you have been using an unbleached high-gluten flour but I couldn't recall whether you had used the Grandma's Original molasses yet.

Peter

Peter,

I really don’t need to take a break in the action, but wasn’t sure what to try next.  That was why I said I am not sure if I am going to do another experiment this week.  Since you are willing to assist, see if you think trying brown sugar in addition to molasses makes any sense.  I did use Grandma’s Original Molasses last week, in combination with fructose.  I thought that pie turned out good, but since I have tasted a real MM’s pie, the sweetness level was too sweet.  My MM’s attempted dough when stretching and trying to toss it didn’t look like MM’s dough did either.  If MM’s is pulling the dough right out of their refrigeration (which I saw), I don’t understand how the dough doesn’t develop bubbles in the middle of the pie either.  The other thing that makes me wonder is how those dough balls that were opened, and then put into the plastic container can survive, and then make the same pizzas.  I would think the stretched skins would ferment more at room temperature.  I don’t know, maybe they did put the stretched skins into some kind of refrigeration until they were ready to use them.  Those skins looked really dry too, and I was right next to them looking at the skins.  That picture was only taken about a foot away.  Since brown sugar does have molasses in it, I wasn’t sure what percent of brown sugar to use with Grandma’s Original Molasses.  Since I have been at MM’s more questions keep going over in my mind.  Even how easily their dough stretched out when it was cold, just wonders me.  I know none of the MM’s doughs I have made would never open that easily when pulled right out of refrigeration, unless they were another kind of dough that would have been high hydration doughs. 

If you think some other kind of combination of ingredients would be better for me to try, let me know.  I have enough ingredients here at home to try.  I am still using KASL in all of my MM’s attempts.  If I try another experiment this week, I think I am also going to make a 10” extra dough ball to try for pretzels to see if they taste anything like MM’s pretzels.  I don’t know where that would get me, but is something I want to try. 

Thanks, for saying you would assist me.

Norma

[norma427]

Yes Norma I detected a sweetness in the crust that I had a hard time to put my finger on the taste. Cake Yes My crumb and texutre was very similar to yours quite tight, small,  Cake like ? not High gluten chewy from what I remember. I am thinking they do not do a long fermentation which does not give it time to develope much flavor. Maybe that is why they put the cheese on the rim  and stuff other flavors in there? I think the sauce had a different flavor as well. I tried to get a suace only bite to see if I could get the tomatoe but there were alot of flavors spices going on in the sauce as well. I do prefer a good NY style bit thinner, or cracker but i dont know many chains that are making anything I could eat on a regular basis . I only tried this because the locals said go and I wanted to see the buzz about this thread.  I liked the overall taste and as far as chains go I feel it is very good. They put out alot of pies I counted 10 people in the kutchen 4-5 on the full length pizza table.
I am home now and guess what I am making    100% caputo last night
Pizza Napolitano  tonight
miss it after 2 weeks and its beautiful outside !
good luck with the cloning I will be watching now for sure
John

John,

Thanks so much for giving your report about what you thought about a MM’s pizza, and how the crumb and texture were.  I really didn’t think my pies I ate had a cake like crumb.  I just wonder how consistent each MM’s is in how they handle their dough and make their pies.  I have seen on the road food forum that when back when MM’s first started how consistent and great their pies were.  People that remembered them, thought the pies were great. This is a link to that conversation.  http://www.roadfood.com/Forums/tm.aspx?m=607388&high=mellow+mushroom
If you look what whatnameisnottaken said, he remembers the very first MM’s.  He said MM’s even after opening a few stores locally it stayed good.  In this thread on the roadfood forum, other members also note the same thing.  http://www.roadfood.com/Forums/tm.aspx?m=375524&high=mellow+mushroom
I wish I could talk to some of those people to see why the MM’s pizza has changed and what they did think changed.

I tried yesterday to just taste the sauce on the reheated slice of MM’s pizza, but couldn’t put my finger on what flavor there was in the sauce because of all the other toppings.

Great to hear you are making Neapolitan Pies for this weekend!  I will be watching for you to post about them.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

I think it makes sense to try using a combination of Grandma's Original molasses and brown sugar. That thought crossed my mind when I was at the supermarket recently, as I reported, and saw the light and brown sugars and wondered whether they were refined sugars. It was the "refined white sugar(s)" versus "refined sugar(s)" issue that led me to call MM.

Where we are missing useful information is in relation to the protocol for the frozen dough balls. I saw a video yesterday where the MM pizza maker mentioned placing the frozen dough balls into the cooler to let them defrost. However, he didn't say whether it was one day, two days, or maybe even three days--or maybe something different. From a fermentation standpoint, it makes a big difference whether you are using one, two or three days of defrost/fermentation. For example, if the fermentation time in the cooler is long, say, three days, the protease enzymes can attack the gluten structure and cause release of the water from its chemical bond. That could make the dough more extensible even though it might look like it is quite dense, and the dough might open up more easily even if it is cold. I'm guessing here. Also, knowing the defrost/fermentation protocol could also tell us more about the amount of yeast, and maybe other ingredients, one might start out with to fit the fermentation period. As we speculated before, maybe the defrost/fermentation period determines how sweet the finished crust is. Before I forget, I am going to pose some questions to GlennC. for when he visits the Decatur, GA MM store soon.

In your case, you might try using a fair amount of Grandma Original molasses with either light or brown sugar, with the goal being to end up with a final dough color that is close to the color of an MM dough. There is no easy mathematical way of determining how much of the two ingredients to use to achieve that objective. So, some experimentation will be required. Maybe something like 7% Grandma's Original molasses and about 4% brown sugar will work. You can also lower the nominal hydration by a percent if you think that is called for based on your recent observations at the DD MM location. You might skip the wheat germ this time also. I am thinking of making an MM clone dough ball and just watch it go over a cycle of two or three days after moving it from the freezer to my refrigerator compartment to see how it changes over the entire period.

Peter

[Pete-zza]

Turns out I know the wife of the guy that owns our local Mellow Mushroom store in Decatur, Ga.

I will probably see her in sometime in the next couple weeks.  Post a list of questions and I will see what I can find out.

Glenn,

I was waiting and hoping to get more information on the MM dough that did not materialize, so if your offer is still in effect I do have a few questions.

1. Are the dough balls fresh dough balls or are they frozen?

2. If the dough balls are fresh, what is the fermentation method (in the cooler or at room temperature) and what is the duration of the fermentation? If the dough balls are cold fermented, how much temper (warm-up) time is needed, if any, before opening up the dough balls to form skins?

3. If the dough balls are frozen, what is the dough management of the dough balls, including the duration of the dough balls in the cooler (to defrost and undergo fermentation) before using? Also, what is the temper (warm-up) period, if any, before the dough balls are opened up to form skins?

4. Also with respect to defrosted dough balls, are they ever refrozen and defrosted again before using?

If the dough balls are fresh, it would be nice to know what the dough ingredients are but most workers in MM franchisee stores are usually not given that information.

Thank you.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

I think it makes sense to try using a combination of Grandma's Original molasses and brown sugar. That thought crossed my mind when I was at the supermarket recently, as I reported, and saw the light and brown sugars and wondered whether they were refined sugars. It was the "refined white sugar(s)" versus "refined sugar(s)" issue that led me to call MM.

Where we are missing useful information is in relation to the protocol for the frozen dough balls. I saw a video yesterday where the MM pizza maker mentioned placing the frozen dough balls into the cooler to let them defrost. However, he didn't say whether it was one day, two days, or maybe even three days--or maybe something different. From a fermentation standpoint, it makes a big difference whether you are using one, two or three days of defrost/fermentation. For example, if the fermentation time in the cooler is long, say, three days, the protease enzymes can attack the gluten structure and cause release of the water from its chemical bond. That could make the dough more extensible even though it might look like it is quite dense, and the dough might open up more easily even if it is cold. I'm guessing here. Also, knowing the defrost/fermentation protocol could also tell us more about the amount of yeast, and maybe other ingredients, one might start out with to fit the fermentation period. As we speculated before, maybe the defrost/fermentation period determines how sweet the finished crust is. Before I forget, I am going to pose some questions to GlennC. for when he visits the Decatur, GA MM store soon.

In your case, you might try using a fair amount of Grandma Original molasses with either light or brown sugar, with the goal being to end up with a final dough color that is close to the color of an MM dough. There is no easy mathematical way of determining how much of the two ingredients to use to achieve that objective. So, some experimentation will be required. Maybe something like 7% Grandma's Original molasses and about 4% brown sugar will work. You can also lower the nominal hydration by a percent if you think that is called for based on your recent observations at the DD MM location. You might skip the wheat germ this time also. I am thinking of making an MM clone dough ball and just watch it go over a cycle of two or three days after moving it from the freezer to my refrigerator compartment to see how it changes over the entire period.

Peter

Peter,

While I was at MM’s I would have liked to ask a lot more questions, but thought that the one guy standing beside me most of the time, (that went to talk to the kitchen manager, when I was eating) might become suspicious of all my questions.  They did say I could take pictures, but thought if I asked too many questions about what they might be doing with either defrosting the dough balls, or something else, they might wonder why would I be asking those questions. Why in the world would any common person want to know those answers.   I was more or less a person that just wanted to try their pizzas since they recently came to an area closer to me.  If you look at the picture I posted at Reply 435 (the bottom one) http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg157619.html#msg157619
I wondered what 10-17 meant and also the letters in the item and what the name meant.  I did ask if dough balls were in that plastic container, and the one pie man said yes.  I thought they might be sitting there to warm up.  When the one pie maker opened the lid of the box, and it only had already cut pretzels from dough balls.  Since the MM’s location only opened on the 17th of October, I now how no idea what that meant.  Maybe Glenn can get some helpful information for us.

I know we don’t have any information about how long the dough balls are left to defrost and do know that can make a difference in the final pizza. I just wonder though if a MM’s location is really busy, how they determine how many dough balls to defrost and maybe if the dough balls are made to be defrosted and then left to ferment at cold temperature for a couple of days.  At least that could explain how Biz, John, you, and I all might have experienced different sugar levels in the crust or even a different texture in the crust, even if all our taste buds aren’t the same.  I wanted to ask you a question about when you ate your pie at the MM’s location you visited.  Was your crumb cake like and dense as John said his was, or was your crumb like the pictures I posted?

I was just at the supermarket and looked at all the sugars and molasses again.  I now saw what is called brownulated sugar, from Domino’s. http://www.dominosugar.com/sugar/brownulated-sugar
That is also a new sugar to me, that I never noticed before.  It also has a molasses flavor.  I didn’t buy any for a replacement for light brown sugar, but found it interesting.

My color of my dough ball last week was about the color of the MM’s dough, but maybe a little lighter.  Last week I tried 8% Grandma’s Original molasses and 3% fructose.  Since you have now helped me with more numbers to try, I might try 2% light brown sugar and 7% molasses and dropped the hydration by about 1%.  I have no idea how that will work, but would think the light brown sugar would add some color.

Thanks for your help!

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

Today I made a clone MM dough ball with a hydration of 54%, soybean oil at 3%, light brown sugar at 4% and Grandma's Original molasses at 7%. Light brown sugar has around 3.6% molasses, so the 7% molasses inches up a little bit. It is hard to know from photos and videos when you have matched the dough color of an MM dough. You would have to place one of your clone dough balls right next to a real MM dough ball. However, I believe that around 7% Grandma's Original molasses comes quite close. I was looking for a more golden-tan color than a pure tan color and I believe that I achieved it. Now I'd like to see what effect the non-molasses part of the light brown sugar has on final crust sweetness. If it is too sweet, I can raise the amount of Grandma's Original molasses and lower the light brown sugar, or visa versa if the crust is not sweet enough. But sweetness alone is not enough. I want the complexity of sweetness that molasses brings.

It is often tricky to extract information out of people without sounding knowledgeable and tipping your hand. You almost have to conduct yourself like Lieutenant Columbo, the TV detective that Peter Falk made famous. You want them to think that you are somewhat of a harmless, bumbling klutz. But behind the klutz facade is a scheme that gets the information.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

Today I made a clone MM dough ball with a hydration of 54%, soybean oil at 3%, light brown sugar at 4% and Grandma's Original molasses at 7%. Light brown sugar has around 3.6% molasses, so the 7% molasses inches up a little bit. It is hard to know from photos and videos when you have matched the dough color of an MM dough. You would have to place one of your clone dough balls right next to a real MM dough ball. However, I believe that around 7% Grandma's Original molasses comes quite close. I was looking for a more golden-tan color than a pure tan color and I believe that I achieved it. Now I'd like to see what effect the non-molasses part of the light brown sugar has on final crust sweetness. If it is too sweet, I can raise the amount of Grandma's Original molasses and lower the light brown sugar, or visa versa if the crust is not sweet enough. But sweetness alone is not enough. I want the complexity of sweetness that molasses brings.

It is often tricky to extract information out of people without sounding knowledgeable and tipping your hand. You almost have to conduct yourself like Lieutenant Columbo, the TV detective that Peter Falk made famous. You want them to think that you are somewhat of a harmless, bumbling klutz. But behind the klutz facade is a scheme that gets the information.

Peter

Peter,

Good to hear about your next experimental dough. Good luck!

My next experimental dough is made, (with Grandma’s Original Molasses and brown sugar), and it looks a little to light to me.  I know it is tenacity and sleuthing that helps these clone threads.  I think I will call myself Inspector G. Lestrade.  Maybe you want to be Sherlock Holmes. I wonder what the other members might want to be called that are helping in cloning MM’s pizza.  I just hope this thread doesn’t take as long as the Mack’s thread.    I sure don't know which thread took the longest in trying to clone someones dough, but this one does seem tricky.

Norma