Author Topic: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?  (Read 200803 times)

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #450 on: October 22, 2011, 09:47:58 AM »
Norma,

It is interesting that the kitchen manager mentioned the possibility of using brown sugar in addition to the molasses. Yesterday, after I made and tasted the pizza, I thought to use brown sugar next time in addition to molasses and balancing their amounts as best I can to achieve the desired end product. When I was at the supermarket recently and noting the dizzying array of sugar products, the brown sugar products were described as natural products using pure cane sugar, etc. I was always of the impression that molasses was added to refined white sugar to make brown sugar but at least the brown sugar is not a "refined white sugar". Rather, it might be a "refined brown sugar" and, as such, would pass muster. It would also add more molasses.

The vitamin that was mentioned could be the Vitamin E. Vitamin E is stripped out of flour as it is being milled as well as most of the other vitamins, including the B vitamins. The flour is later enriched to add back the B vitamins but not the Vitamin E. I have never seen a flour that is enriched with Vitamin E. I studied the specs of all of the GM flours and did a search on this a while back and came up completely empty, with almost no hits. The Vitamin E is principally in the wheat germ. However, if the wheat germ is defatted, or possibly if it is ground into a powder and heated as a result, there is a loss of the Vitamin E. As was discussed before, it is then possible to add a synthetic Vitamin E (d-alpha tocopherol acetate) back into the wheat germ to replace the Vitamin E that was lost.

Peter


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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #451 on: October 22, 2011, 10:02:12 AM »
Peter,

I was able to gauge the color of the MMís dough balls, compared to what I have been making.  My last attempt was about the closest in color in the dough ball and finished crumb.  The color of the dough balls at MMís did look a little darker than a brown coffee filter.  The pizza I brought back home also was a 10Ē pizza.  I want to reheat one slice today for myself, give one slice to my mother, and also do something with one slice for Steve.  What do you suggest I do with the slice for Steve to preserve it for Tuesday?  

The taste of the crumb in the rim wasnít as sweet as I thought it would be.  It only had a tiny bit of sweetness.  Some of my attempts were much sweeter in the finished pizzas.  The only thing I could taste in the crust was molasses.  The slice did have a chewiness to it, and even after it was just baked had a droop.  The bottom crust wasnít real crisp.  The slice could be folded right away as can be seen in the pictures.  There wasnít any doughiness that I could detect in the slice.  As I said the color of the crumb was lighter.  I ate two slices, and my daughter also ate two slices and we both agreed that my attempts werenít like a real MMís pizza in the amount of sweetness in the crust as my last few attempts.  There is something about their crust that is something different, but I canít put my finger on what the difference is.  My last attempt did have almost the same amount of chewiness.  As I said in my last post, I now wonder if we have the right hydration, and maybe if it needs to be lowered a little after watching how I though the dough looked and handled.  I still canít understand how light the crumb is in taste and texture, and was how that is achieved.  As can be seen in the pictures of the crumb, it was light in texture.  They were using the Grande low-moisture part skim shredded mozzarella.  I tried to get a better picture of it, but didnít want them to see that I was trying to take a picture of the cheese.  The sauce just had a good taste, and didnít taste sweet at all.  I will have to taste the sauce again on a reheated slice.   The tomato sauce did taste very fresh.

I donít know what to tell you about glaring or what we might be missing in trying to clone the MMís pizza, because I wouldnít know what to do to try and make the pizza the same as MMís.  Maybe you will get some ideas from my posts.  As I posted the pie I tasted almost tasted like it came out of a WFO.  I canít understand that with the long bake.   ???

I see you are also having problems in deciding how to change your dough formulation.

Norma
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 10:07:33 AM by norma427 »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #452 on: October 22, 2011, 10:18:57 AM »
Norma,

It is interesting that the kitchen manager mentioned the possibility of using brown sugar in addition to the molasses. Yesterday, after I made and tasted the pizza, I thought to use brown sugar next time in addition to molasses and balancing their amounts as best I can to achieve the desired end product. When I was at the supermarket recently and noting the dizzying array of sugar products, the brown sugar products were described as natural products using pure cane sugar, etc. I was always of the impression that molasses was added to refined white sugar to make brown sugar but at least the brown sugar is not a "refined white sugar". Rather, it might be a "refined brown sugar" and, as such, would pass muster. It would also add more molasses.

The vitamin that was mentioned could be the Vitamin E. Vitamin E is stripped out of flour as it is being milled as well as most of the other vitamins, including the B vitamins. The flour is later enriched to add back the B vitamins but not the Vitamin E. I have never seen a flour that is enriched with Vitamin E. I studied the specs of all of the GM flours and did a search on this a while back and came up completely empty, with almost no hits. The Vitamin E is principally in the wheat germ. However, if the wheat germ is defatted, or possibly if it is ground into a powder and heated as a result, there is a loss of the Vitamin E. As was discussed before, it is then possible to add a synthetic Vitamin E (d-alpha tocopherol acetate) back into the wheat germ to replace the Vitamin E that was lost.

Peter

Peter,

If you can think of a formula to set-forth with brown sugar and molasses, I would be willing to try it for this Tuesday.  I knew molasses is added to white sugar to make brown sugar, because of our use of brown sugar in our Caramel Corn business. I know from adding brown sugar and corn syrup together from making the caramel corn, the taste is sweet when the caramel corn is finished, but not that really sweet, if that makes any sense. I asked how the crumb of the MMís pies became so nice and light brown in color, and the kitchen manager said it was from the molasses.  I find you comment about Vitamin E interesting.  What do you suggest to do about that?

Edit:  I didn't have time to search, but is there any meaning from what the sign that MM's had posted on the one door that said Dough Boys Enterprises LLC?  Is there anything you want me to look for in the whole pie I brought home?  It is still whole.

Norma
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 10:26:56 AM by norma427 »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #453 on: October 22, 2011, 12:15:47 PM »
Alright, I haven't read every single post of this thread, so my apologies if this has been discussed before, but here are two ideas that I've been pondering.

Ingredient List Acquisition

MM is big and corporate enough, imo, that, if you contacted them asking them for an ingredient list, they might oblige.  Has this been tried?  Here's what I write:

Dear MM,

I was thinking of throwing a birthday party for my daughter at one of your locations and some of her friends have food allergies.  Would it be possible to get a list of ingredients for your pizzas?  The ingredients for a plain pizza would be fine, as that's what we'll get for the kid's with allergies.

Industrial Sweeteners

If MM is using commissary dough, there's a really good chance that their operations are large enough to be using industrial sweeteners.  When you get into the industrial sweetener realm, you have access to sweeteners that provide the textural qualities of sugar without the sweetness.   One of these high bulk/low sweetness sweeteners is plain corn syrup. You can't walk into a supermarket and buy plain corn syrup. Karo is a combination of high fructose corn syrup (HFCS) and corn syrup. HFCS is corn syrup that's been combined with enzymes to convert the non sweet/bulky components of the corn syrup into sweet components, to give it more of a sweetness profile that matches sugar (so that it can be subbed for sugar in many many foods/beverages). Non enzyme altered corn syrup is still used in the industry, though, and, when used, will give foods sugary bulk/texture (gooeyness, chewiness, moistness), but won't give them that much sweetness. This bulk will also, to an extent, raise the temperature at which the proteins in the flour set, allowing for the dough to rise a bit longer and potentially improve oven spring (theoretically).

The main reason I bring this up is that the bulk in sugar/corn syrup is a humectant (absorbs water from the air), so one way that MM might be maintaining moistness in their crust without pushing the sweetness envelope is by using an ingredient like non HF corn syrup. It's pretty obvious that this is not a high hydration dough, so when you get into non slack doughs, the options for moistness with long bake times dwindle. My money is industrial corn syrup (or possibly corn syrup powder).

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #454 on: October 22, 2011, 12:39:53 PM »
A few more pictures of what the area looks like right around where MMís is located in the District of Columbia if someone has never visited there, and of us to MM's and traveling home.  

I have one other observation I have wondered about since I was on the way home last evening.  I saw the pie makers open the dough for my pies, dress my pies, and watched them baked in the oven.  I saw them take my pies out of the oven, but than sat down to wait for my pies.  When the pie maker removed the pies from the oven, I didnít watch how the melted butter with garlic was brushed on, or how the Parmesan cheese was applied.  They take the pies back somewhere to do that.  It makes me wonder how the pies rim then gets so brown and glossy looking, when it wasnít  like that when they first took it out of the oven.  None of the pies coming out of the oven has that brown glossing looking rim.  I now wish I would have tried to watch how they did that if I could have watched.  Did anyone else watch that process when they were at a MMís pizzeria?

Norma
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 12:46:41 PM by norma427 »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #455 on: October 22, 2011, 12:41:01 PM »
Norma
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 12:48:05 PM by norma427 »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #456 on: October 22, 2011, 12:42:11 PM »
Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #457 on: October 22, 2011, 12:43:05 PM »
Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #458 on: October 22, 2011, 01:35:18 PM »
scott123,

Last week, after seeing how many sugar products in my local supermarket touted the natural and purity attributes of the products, including turbinado/raw cane sugar and light and brown sugar, I wondered whether there were really any non-refined sugar products other than things like honey, maple syrup, pure sorghum, sorghum-molasses, barley malt syrup, concentrated raisin juice, stevia, etc. So, when I got back home, I called MM and was referred to a rep who was responsible for answering questions about the MM products. Although my main purpose in calling MM was in relation to refined sugars, at least initially, in the course of my conversation with the rep she told me that the only ingredients used in MM's dough were high-gluten flour, water, salt, yeast, molasses and oil. That is the same list that I found in a 2003 post on a vegan site, as I mentioned in this thread way back in Reply 18 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg149648.html#msg149648 (although water was obviously inadvertently left off the ingredients list). She said that the molasses was liquid molasses, not dry molasses as I had thought (she mentioned something like that "dark wet gooey stuff" that she had seen used to emphasize the point). When I mentioned that the MM pizza crust I had was sweet and that molasses doesn't really add that much sweetness itself, she said that as far as she knew it was only molasses and that, to her, molasses was sweet. When I mentioned that their promotional materials said that they used no "refined white sugar(s)", she said that I had raised a good question inasmuch as MM was thinking of doing away with the term "refined" because arguably someone could say that the molasses was refined.

The discussion then turned to the question of the wheat germ and the Vitamin E enrichment, both of which are mentioned in the promotional materials used by corporate MM and many of its franchisees. She did not seem to know what I was talking about but offered to try to find the answer to those questions. After not hearing back from her after a few days, I called again but ended up leaving a voicemail in which I told her that I was checking back for an answer. I still have not heard back. I was hoping to get a response so that I could give a more complete response on the forum rather than a fragmented one, especially since I thought that I was going to get a prompt update.

On the matter of the corn syrup, which Jet_deck (Gene) also raised in a tangential manner, I noted in response to Gene at Reply 405 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg157439.html#msg157439, that corn syrup was a possibility because of the use of the expression "refined white sugar(s)" versus "refined sugar(s)" that franchisees and writers were using, either unknown to MM corporate or acquiesced in by MM corporate. I also knew that Little Caesar's was at least at one time using corn syrup solids in their pizza dough, which member November, who once worked for LC, told me was not the same as liquid corn syrup or the Karo corn syrup that I used in an LC clone on the assumption that I was using a proper substitute.

At this point, I have no confidence in the completeness and accuracy of what MM has been telling us. This is not new. I have many times run into customer service reps who should be able to answer some fairly simple questions yet can't in many cases.

Like you, Norma and I and some of the other members have explored what a modern commissary might use to make pizza dough, including using all kinds of dry molasses products and wet molasses products, and a whole bunch of other, mainly dry ingredients. Norma has so many samples that she may have to build an addition to her home to store all of them. And she is now waiting arrival of some wet molasses products to try, although she has been warned that the products may still not add enough sweetness and may, in fact, behave like Grandma's Original molasses.

Peter



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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #459 on: October 22, 2011, 03:37:01 PM »
I was able to gauge the color of the MMís dough balls, compared to what I have been making.  My last attempt was about the closest in color in the dough ball and finished crumb.  The color of the dough balls at MMís did look a little darker than a brown coffee filter.  The pizza I brought back home also was a 10Ē pizza.  I want to reheat one slice today for myself, give one slice to my mother, and also do something with one slice for Steve.  What do you suggest I do with the slice for Steve to preserve it for Tuesday?  

The taste of the crumb in the rim wasnít as sweet as I thought it would be.  It only had a tiny bit of sweetness.  Some of my attempts were much sweeter in the finished pizzas.  The only thing I could taste in the crust was molasses.  The slice did have a chewiness to it, and even after it was just baked had a droop.  The bottom crust wasnít real crisp.  The slice could be folded right away as can be seen in the pictures.  There wasnít any doughiness that I could detect in the slice.  As I said the color of the crumb was lighter.  I ate two slices, and my daughter also ate two slices and we both agreed that my attempts werenít like a real MMís pizza in the amount of sweetness in the crust as my last few attempts.  There is something about their crust that is something different, but I canít put my finger on what the difference is.  My last attempt did have almost the same amount of chewiness.  As I said in my last post, I now wonder if we have the right hydration, and maybe if it needs to be lowered a little after watching how I though the dough looked and handled.  I still canít understand how light the crumb is in taste and texture, and was how that is achieved.  As can be seen in the pictures of the crumb, it was light in texture.  They were using the Grande low-moisture part skim shredded mozzarella.  I tried to get a better picture of it, but didnít want them to see that I was trying to take a picture of the cheese.  The sauce just had a good taste, and didnít taste sweet at all.  I will have to taste the sauce again on a reheated slice.   The tomato sauce did taste very fresh.

I donít know what to tell you about glaring or what we might be missing in trying to clone the MMís pizza, because I wouldnít know what to do to try and make the pizza the same as MMís.  Maybe you will get some ideas from my posts.  As I posted the pie I tasted almost tasted like it came out of a WFO.  I canít understand that with the long bake.   ???

I see you are also having problems in deciding how to change your dough formulation.

Norma,

First things first. To preserve the slice of MM pizza for Steve, you might want to immerse it in embalming fluid from a local mortuary. No, just kidding. I think I would freeze it. The slice might be a bit soggy upon defrosting, but if you reheat it in your deck oven at market, that might drive off some of the moisture and let Steve at least taste the crust and its relative sweetness.

On the matter of crust sweetness, the MM pizza I had in Florida had a distinct sweetness. Maybe it is because I use so little sugar in my diet that I have a lower threshhold for detecting sweetness. It drives me crazy when I pick up sugar in products where I don't think that it should even be present, or to the degree that it appears to be present in the products. As you may know, when food processors got rid of fat and some of the salt in their products, they replaced them with sugar and other sweeteners. In the case of MM, it is also possible that using messy liquid molasses, as the MM rep told me is used, that the manufacturing process in the MM commissary has variations in molasses from dough batch to dough batch. The reason I asked you about the dough management protocol at the MM DC location is because I wanted to see if they were doing something that might reduce the sweetness in the finished crust.

In one of my first experiments in this thread, I used 7% molasses (Grandma's Mild Flavor molasses), 2% oil and 54% hydration. And no other sweetener. The "adjusted" hydration to compensate for the water content of the molasses was 55.54%. When I added the 2% oil, I got an "effective" hydration of 57.54%. However, while I thought that the finished crust was delicious, principally because of the molasses flavor, the crust (and the dough from which it was made) was much darker than an MM dough and the dough was hard to open up to form a skin because it was stiff. That is what led me to increase the hydration and also to increase the amount of yeast. When I later switched over to the Grandma's Original molasses, which is a first boil product, I was able to use more of that molasses without adversely affecting the dough and crust coloration because it is a lighter molasses. Whether the samples of liquid molasses that you will soon be receiving allow you to use more of those products remains to be seen despite the admonition that were given to you by the lady at Domino's Specialty Ingredients. My thinking at this point is to drop back or even eliminate the added turbinado (raw cane sugar) and stick with the liquid Grandma's Original molasses but use more of it, mainly for the complexity of the sweetness of the molasses as opposed to the somewhat cloying sweetness of the raw cane sugar. Maybe we have been looking for love sweetness in all the wrong places.

On the matter of the tenderness and moistness of the finished crust, November once indicated that oil and sugar both have the capacity to retain moisture although oil is better at retaining moisture before the dough is baked and sugar is better at retaining the moisture during baking (see Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5043.msg42739/topicseen.html#msg42739). I had lowered the amount of oil that I first started playing around with to make the finished crust less breadlike and more dense and chewy. I think I would rather increase the amount of molasses rather than increasing the amount of oil, even if it means a darker dough and crust.

Peter
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 09:02:55 PM by Pete-zza »

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #460 on: October 22, 2011, 03:50:06 PM »
If you can think of a formula to set-forth with brown sugar and molasses, I would be willing to try it for this Tuesday.  I knew molasses is added to white sugar to make brown sugar, because of our use of brown sugar in our Caramel Corn business. I know from adding brown sugar and corn syrup together from making the caramel corn, the taste is sweet when the caramel corn is finished, but not that really sweet, if that makes any sense. I asked how the crumb of the MMís pies became so nice and light brown in color, and the kitchen manager said it was from the molasses.  I find you comment about Vitamin E interesting.  What do you suggest to do about that?

Edit:  I didn't have time to search, but is there any meaning from what the sign that MM's had posted on the one door that said Dough Boys Enterprises LLC?  Is there anything you want me to look for in the whole pie I brought home?  It is still whole.

Norma,

I will have to give some thought as to where we go next with this project, especially in light of the fact that you did not really detect a lot of sweetness in the crust of the pizzas you had at the DC MM location. I wouldn't really worry about the Vitamin E. I have always viewed that as a marketing ploy to lead people to believe that there is something different or better about the MM dough. I also wouldn't feel compelled to research the Dough Boy Enterprises LLC sign that you saw on the door of the MM DC location. That is perhaps a name that the franchisee had to pick for legal and tax reasons and maybe to immunize MM from any legal claims brought against the franchisee.

As for the pizza that you brought home, you might want to save a slice to use as reference points for crust color when you make future MM clones. However, if you freeze it, you may have to defrost it for comparison purposes since freezing can change the color of the slice. You might be able to hold the slice in the refrigerator for a few days but after that it is likely to dry up and shrink to the point where it is no longer usable for reference purposes. At that point, you might give it to Steve to eat :-D.

Peter

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #461 on: October 22, 2011, 04:49:00 PM »
Norma,

First things first. To preserve the slice of MM pizza for Steve, you might want to immerse it in embalming fluid from a local mortuary. No, just kidding. I think I would freeze it. The slice might be a bit soggy upon defrosting, but if you reheat it in your deck oven at market, that might drive off some of the moisture and let Steve at least taste the crust and its relative sweetness.

On the matter of crust sweetness, the MM pizza I had in Florida had a distinct sweetness. Maybe it is because I use so little sugar in my diet that I have a lower threshhold for detecting sweetness. It drives me crazy when I pick up sugar in products where I don't think that it should even be present, or to the degree that it appears to be present in the products. As you may know, when food processors got rid of fat and some of the salt in their products, they replaced them with sugar and other sweeteners. In the case of MM, it is also possible that using messy liquid molasses, as the MM rep told me is used, that the manufacturing process in the MM commissary has variations in molasses from dough batch to dough batch. The reason I asked you about the dough management protocol at the MM DC location is because I wanted to see if they were doing something that might reduce the sweetness in the finished crust.

In one of my first experiments in this thread, I used 7% molasses (Grandma's Mild Flavor molasses), 2% oil and 54% hydration. And no other sweetener. The "adjusted" hydration to compensate for the water content of the molasses was 55.54%. When I added the 2% oil, I got an "effective" hydration of 57.54%. However, while I thought that the finished crust was delicious, principally because of the molasses flavor, the crust (and the dough from which it was made) was much darker than an MM dough and the dough was hard to open up to form a skin because it was stiff. That is what led me to increase the hydration. When I later switched over to the Grandma's Original molasses, which is a first boil product, I was able to use more of that molasses without adversely affecting the dough and crust coloration because it is a lighter molasses. Whether the samples of liquid molasses that you will soon be receiving allow you to use more of those products remains to be seen despite the admonition that were given to you by the lady at Domino's Specialty Ingredients. My thinking at this point is to drop back or even eliminate the added turbinado (raw cane sugar) and stick with the liquid Grandma's Original molasses but use more of it, mainly for the complexity of the sweetness of the molasses as opposed to the somewhat cloying sweetness of the raw cane sugar. Maybe we have been looking for love sweetness in all the wrong places.

On the matter of the tenderness and moistness of the finished crust, November once indicated that oil and sugar both have the capacity to retain moisture although oil is better at retaining moisture before the dough is baked and sugar is better at retaining the moisture during baking (see Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5043.msg42739/topicseen.html#msg42739). I had lowered the amount of oil that I first started playing around with to make the finished crust less breadlike and more dense and chewy. I think I would rather increase the amount of molasses rather than increasing the amount of oil, even if it means a darker dough and crust.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for your suggestion ďcomedy styleĒ for me preserving a slice for Steve to taste.  Maybe in addition to being the person that helps everyone on this forum on ideas, facts, and formulas, you should also be a ďstand up comicĒ!  :-D It seems you are good at that too.  I would like Steve to taste a slice so he also can know what a real slice of a MMís pie tastes like in terms of sweetness.

Even Biz has noted differences in the MMís slices he had at MMís locations in terms of sweetness.  I had thought when I went to MMís yesterday the crust would have been sweeter.  That was not the case.  Even my daughter that had tasted most of my MMís attempts also commented that she thought the MMís pie we had yesterday wasnít really that sweet at all.  There was a sweetness in the crust, but not what I would have expected. Even the soft pretzel (which is made out of the same dough, and didnít have the sauce and cheese on them) really werenít that sweet in taste.  We bought the soft pretzels just to see if there would be a difference in how sweet they tasted since there are no other ingredients added. The plain soft pretzel just tasted like malt with no molasses.  Donít even ask about that, because I canít explain that, even though I have tasted plenty of soft pretzels in our area. I know all our taste buds are different in tasting sugar, and yours is more sensitive.  You can see on the pictures I posted of the soft pretzels they donít have that shiny glossy crust either.  That also still makes me wonder what they do after the bake to their regular pies to give it that darker glossy shine.

Thanks for referencing Novemberís post.  You are right that we may have been looking for love or sweetness in all the wrong place.   Who knows where all these experiments will led us.

I am not sure what experiment I will try for Tuesday, or if I will try any.  I am now more confused on what to try.  I know the next time I do decide to do any experimental MMís pie, I am going to use my fine cornmeal.  That is what the pie makers used at MMís yesterday. They said it is really hard to clean-up all that fine cornmeal and it gets all over the place.  My light cornmeal I have at market does look like the cornmeal MMís uses.  One other thing I forgot to mention, was I saw two pie makers use the fine corn meal on the skin before adding the sauce, or other dressings.  I donít know if that is something they do all the time, or if it was something they do for a special kinds of toppings.  I guess I didnít pay enough attention to each pie they made while I was there.

Norma
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 04:53:55 PM by norma427 »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #462 on: October 22, 2011, 05:53:13 PM »
I have one other observation I have wondered about since I was on the way home last evening.  I saw the pie makers open the dough for my pies, dress my pies, and watched them baked in the oven.  I saw them take my pies out of the oven, but than sat down to wait for my pies.  When the pie maker removed the pies from the oven, I didnít watch how the melted butter with garlic was brushed on, or how the Parmesan cheese was applied.  They take the pies back somewhere to do that.  It makes me wonder how the pies rim then gets so brown and glossy looking, when it wasnít  like that when they first took it out of the oven.  None of the pies coming out of the oven has that brown glossing looking rim.  I now wish I would have tried to watch how they did that if I could have watched.  Did anyone else watch that process when they were at a MMís pizzeria?

Norma,

I recall seeing a couple of MM videos where there was a fellow next to the oven who applied the garlic butter to the crust and dusted it with grated cheese. I seem to recall in one of the videos that the garlic butter was in a clear container. I tried to find that particular video but there are so many MM-related videos that I couldn't find it even though I thought it was referenced in this thread. However, I did find this video, at , that also shows a fellow next to the oven putting something on the pizza with a brush, with a cheese shaker in the same general work area. I couldn't make out what he was dabbing on the pizza. After we struggled trying to find out why the crusts were not sweet, I even wondered whether the MM workers who made the MM pizza I had put something like honey on the rim so that the grated cheese would stick better and not get absorbed into the garlic butter yet make the crust taste sweet. To test out this theory, I put some honey on the rim of the crust of one of my test pizzas. The rim was sweeter but it was not the same kind of sweetness I remembered. Maybe they are putting something like regular sugar or a sugar syrup in the garlic butter or in another container. That might give the rim the glossiness you mentioned.

The use of cornmeal on the top of the skin is shown in the video with Dustin at .

Peter

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #463 on: October 22, 2011, 06:11:59 PM »
Norma,

I recall seeing a couple of MM videos where there was a fellow next to the oven who applied the garlic butter to the crust and dusted it with grated cheese. I seem to recall in one of the videos that the garlic butter was in a clear container. I tried to find that particular video but there are so many MM-related videos that I couldn't find it even though I thought it was referenced in this thread. However, I did find this video, at , that also shows a fellow next to the oven putting something on the pizza with a brush, with a cheese shaker in the same general work area. I couldn't make out what he was dabbing on the pizza. After we struggled trying to find out why the crusts were not sweet, I even wondered whether the MM workers who made the MM pizza I had put something like honey on the rim so that the grated cheese would stick better and not get absorbed into the garlic butter yet make the crust taste sweet. To test out this theory, I put some honey on the rim of the crust of one of my test pizzas. The rim was sweeter but it was not the same kind of sweetness I remembered. Maybe they are putting something like regular sugar or a sugar syrup in the garlic butter or in another container. That might give the rim the glossiness you mentioned.

The use of cornmeal on the top of the skin is shown in the video with Dustin at .

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for referencing the video.  I also have watched so many videos, I forget which is which.  Thanks also for doing the test of putting honey on the crust.  I see where you referenced the corn meal put on the skin.  I also forgot about that.  I think my brain is going numb with all the information on this thread.

This is going to be my last post about the pizzas I bought at MMís yesterday.  I wanted to reheat a slice to eat today, so I did.  I reheated two slices, one for my daughter and one for me.  The reheated slices tasted almost exactly the same as when we ate a fresh pie yesterday, with a little bit of a sweeter taste in the crust.  I wanted to mention another thing I noticed yesterday and today.  The pizza yesterday was on a pizza pan, and my daughter and I both noticed the pizza pan was greasy after we ate the pizza.  I donít know if that means anything or not.  Today I noticed the lining of the pizza box was also greasy.  After the reheat, the bottom on the pizzas was greasy too.  I took a video to show the crumb and how the rim springs back even after reheating. It can also be seen on the video that my fingers got greasy from touching the bottom crust. The bottom of this pizza looked darker than the one we ate at MMís, but it didnít taste burnt in any way.  There was chew in the pizza just like yesterday and it could still be folded easily.

I froze a little bit of the crust to be able to see if any of my experimental MMís pies look anything like the real MMís crust.

Pictures of non reheated and reheated slice and video: The first picture is of the reheated piece of pretzel last evening.


I am going to go away this evening. Maybe I will come back with a refreshed mind.  Hopefully!  ::)

Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #464 on: October 22, 2011, 06:13:12 PM »
Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #465 on: October 22, 2011, 06:14:04 PM »
Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #466 on: October 22, 2011, 06:15:18 PM »
Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #467 on: October 22, 2011, 07:04:11 PM »
I am back here are the few pics I got from the new Mellow Mushroom location in Hilton Head Island SC
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #468 on: October 22, 2011, 07:06:04 PM »
thought I took more ,sorry. but heres my Pep and sausage and yes the Icon lighthouse  of Hilton Head Island Great week!
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 07:08:22 PM by JConk007 »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #469 on: October 22, 2011, 09:10:15 PM »
There is a difference in liquid molasses sweetness.  The sweetest would be pure cane syrup such as Grandmas Gold molasses.  Then there is a "first boil".  It is less sweet but more robust.  This would be Grandmas molasses in the green jar.  Molasses gets less sweet through each "boil" till you get to blackstrap molasses, lot less sugar but higher in nutrition.
Try using unbleached  high gluten flour and Grandmas Gold molasses.  Just an idea.

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #470 on: October 23, 2011, 08:23:40 AM »
I am back here are the few pics I got from the new Mellow Mushroom location in Hilton Head Island SC

John,

Thanks for posting your pictures of you visit to MMís.  :) I enjoyed the pictures.  Since you have made many kinds of pizzas, how did you think the MMís pepperoni and sausage pie tasted in reference to other pies you have made.  Was there sweetness in the crust of the pie you had and also how was the texture of the crumb?  Was your crumb rim the same texture as the pizzas I had from MMís?  Also how would you rate the MMís pie you had in terms of other pies you have eaten before.  Is there anything that stands out in you mind about a MMís pie?

Glad to hear you had a nice vacation.

Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #471 on: October 23, 2011, 01:10:18 PM »
Norma,

Sometimes it makes sense to take a break from the action. But if you are interested in trying out another MM clone, I am willing to assist. I would just need to know what ingredients you want to use. I have been assuming that you have been using an unbleached high-gluten flour but I couldn't recall whether you had used the Grandma's Original molasses yet.

Peter

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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #472 on: October 23, 2011, 01:51:04 PM »
Yes Norma I detected a sweetness in the crust that I had a hard time to put my finger on the taste. Cake Yes My crumb and texutre was very similar to yours quite tight, small,  Cake like ? not High gluten chewy from what I remember. I am thinking they do not do a long fermentation which does not give it time to develope much flavor. Maybe that is why they put the cheese on the rim  and stuff other flavors in there? I think the sauce had a different flavor as well. I tried to get a suace only bite to see if I could get the tomatoe but there were alot of flavors spices going on in the sauce as well. I do prefer a good NY style bit thinner, or cracker but i dont know many chains that are making anything I could eat on a regular basis . I only tried this because the locals said go and I wanted to see the buzz about this thread.  I liked the overall taste and as far as chains go I feel it is very good. They put out alot of pies I counted 10 people in the kutchen 4-5 on the full length pizza table.
I am home now and guess what I am making   :chef:  100% caputo last night
Pizza Napolitano :pizza:  tonight
miss it after 2 weeks and its beautiful outside !
good luck with the cloning I will be watching now for sure
John
« Last Edit: October 23, 2011, 01:57:09 PM by JConk007 »
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #473 on: October 23, 2011, 02:13:00 PM »
Norma,

Sometimes it makes sense to take a break from the action. But if you are interested in trying out another MM clone, I am willing to assist. I would just need to know what ingredients you want to use. I have been assuming that you have been using an unbleached high-gluten flour but I couldn't recall whether you had used the Grandma's Original molasses yet.

Peter

Peter,

I really donít need to take a break in the action, but wasnít sure what to try next.  That was why I said I am not sure if I am going to do another experiment this week.  Since you are willing to assist, see if you think trying brown sugar in addition to molasses makes any sense.  I did use Grandmaís Original Molasses last week, in combination with fructose.  I thought that pie turned out good, but since I have tasted a real MMís pie, the sweetness level was too sweet.  My MMís attempted dough when stretching and trying to toss it didnít look like MMís dough did either.  If MMís is pulling the dough right out of their refrigeration (which I saw), I donít understand how the dough doesnít develop bubbles in the middle of the pie either.  The other thing that makes me wonder is how those dough balls that were opened, and then put into the plastic container can survive, and then make the same pizzas.  I would think the stretched skins would ferment more at room temperature.  I donít know, maybe they did put the stretched skins into some kind of refrigeration until they were ready to use them.  Those skins looked really dry too, and I was right next to them looking at the skins.  That picture was only taken about a foot away.  Since brown sugar does have molasses in it, I wasnít sure what percent of brown sugar to use with Grandmaís Original Molasses.  Since I have been at MMís more questions keep going over in my mind.  Even how easily their dough stretched out when it was cold, just wonders me.  I know none of the MMís doughs I have made would never open that easily when pulled right out of refrigeration, unless they were another kind of dough that would have been high hydration doughs. 

If you think some other kind of combination of ingredients would be better for me to try, let me know.  I have enough ingredients here at home to try.  I am still using KASL in all of my MMís attempts.  If I try another experiment this week, I think I am also going to make a 10Ē extra dough ball to try for pretzels to see if they taste anything like MMís pretzels.  I donít know where that would get me, but is something I want to try. 

Thanks, for saying you would assist me.

Norma
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Re: Mellow Mushroom Pizza found in Atlanta and surroundin areas...Recipes?
« Reply #474 on: October 23, 2011, 02:33:41 PM »
Yes Norma I detected a sweetness in the crust that I had a hard time to put my finger on the taste. Cake Yes My crumb and texutre was very similar to yours quite tight, small,  Cake like ? not High gluten chewy from what I remember. I am thinking they do not do a long fermentation which does not give it time to develope much flavor. Maybe that is why they put the cheese on the rim  and stuff other flavors in there? I think the sauce had a different flavor as well. I tried to get a suace only bite to see if I could get the tomatoe but there were alot of flavors spices going on in the sauce as well. I do prefer a good NY style bit thinner, or cracker but i dont know many chains that are making anything I could eat on a regular basis . I only tried this because the locals said go and I wanted to see the buzz about this thread.  I liked the overall taste and as far as chains go I feel it is very good. They put out alot of pies I counted 10 people in the kutchen 4-5 on the full length pizza table.
I am home now and guess what I am making   :chef:  100% caputo last night
Pizza Napolitano :pizza:  tonight
miss it after 2 weeks and its beautiful outside !
good luck with the cloning I will be watching now for sure
John

John,

Thanks so much for giving your report about what you thought about a MMís pizza, and how the crumb and texture were.  I really didnít think my pies I ate had a cake like crumb.  I just wonder how consistent each MMís is in how they handle their dough and make their pies.  I have seen on the road food forum that when back when MMís first started how consistent and great their pies were.  People that remembered them, thought the pies were great. This is a link to that conversation.  http://www.roadfood.com/Forums/tm.aspx?m=607388&high=mellow+mushroom
If you look what whatnameisnottaken said, he remembers the very first MMís.  He said MMís even after opening a few stores locally it stayed good.  In this thread on the roadfood forum, other members also note the same thing.  http://www.roadfood.com/Forums/tm.aspx?m=375524&high=mellow+mushroom
I wish I could talk to some of those people to see why the MMís pizza has changed and what they did think changed.

I tried yesterday to just taste the sauce on the reheated slice of MMís pizza, but couldnít put my finger on what flavor there was in the sauce because of all the other toppings.

Great to hear you are making Neapolitan Pies for this weekend!  ;D I will be watching for you to post about them.

Norma
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